WATASHI WA SHINEN! SHINENZUUU!: A Black Shadow Support Thread

[MasterMushroom]

And yet we have Captain Falcon with a random moveset inspired by Kamen Rider.
At least Black Shadow HAS SOMETHING to use. (Especially given that he has shown powers within the game series as well.)
Also, F-Zero GX had a pair of games, including one that took place after the anime itself (where Rick Wheeler is Captain Falcon and Black Shadow survived the "Universe Destroying Falcon Punch").

That was a good observation, and you're right. Sakurai did admit during post N64 days that it was inspired by the kamen rider motif

@Dakota: You know, punch and kick signature moves aren't the only sig moves a person can do There's decking, diving, tombstombing, etc etc. I won't be surprised if they made him akin to a kamen rider character with his own extreme "bull" personality

 

[Wizzrobe]

I feel like everyone saying "give Black Shadow Ganon's old moveset"just knows nothing about the character...

 

[DarkSouls]

Black Shadow should have stats befitting his Black Bull F-Zero vehicle; high weight and attack power, low acceleration and maneuverability, high speed once he gets going.

Ganondorf's old moveset works decently on him, but I'd prefer something new. However, I wouldn't mind Ganondorf's current stats for him.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

For anyone wondering, I didn't say "give B. Shadow Ganon's moves"(not that anyone thought I did), I meant that his attacks should have purple magic like Ganon.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

For anyone wondering, I didn't say "give B. Shadow Ganon's moves"(not that anyone thought I did), I meant that his attacks should have purple magic like Ganon.

If you're talking about darkness based attacks, then I agree with this.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

If you're talking about darkness based attacks, then I agree with this.

I think everyone does. Unless you want a guy named Black Shadow to be fartin' rainbows everywhere.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Give Ganondorf's moveset to him & give Ganon his sword & call it a day

 

[Deleted member]

Give Ganondorf's moveset to him & give Ganon his sword & call it a day

How about no.
How about give Ganon his sword and give Black Shadow HIS OWN moveset.

Best case scenario.

 

[Barbasol]

It's been a decade since we saw an F-Zero title hit the market. As much as I want to think another character should rep the series, it doesn't look like its a Nintendo priority. F-Zero GX was a fantastic game, and one of the best received games for the Gamecube... but Nintendo doesn't seem to want to put out another title.

Sad reality aside, it would be great to support a second F-Zero rep. I'd be far more partial to Black Shadow than Goroh.

A couple thoughts for the moveset. In GX' story mode we saw he had the power to channel dark energy and created a net binding that locked down Falcon. That could factor into powers for him.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

How about no.
How about give Ganon his sword and give Black Shadow HIS OWN moveset.

Best case scenario.

This. Or give Ganon a stance change of sorts...but thats for a different thread altogether.

Yeah, I'm kinda surprised how many people are just like "oh, just give Ganons' old moveset to Black Shadow", ignoring all the potential BS has for an original moveset. What's even funnier is that a lot of times I hear Ganondorf fans say they feel that Ganons' clone moveset is an insult to the character, then say it would be perfectly acceptable to dump the moveset on Black Shadow. F***in' hypocrites.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

How about no.
How about give Ganon his sword and give Black Shadow HIS OWN moveset.

Best case scenario.

I think ultimately his moveset will resemble Capt. Falcons anyway, so whynot, I definitely want Ganon to have a new moveset, so why not give his moveset to Black Shadow if he so does make it to Smash 4

 

[Deleted member]

Because
a. Ganon's current moveset SUCKS.
b. Black Shadow is capable of much more (you don't read what people say, do you?).
c. Less clones/semi-clones, the better.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Because
a. Ganon's current moveset SUCKS.
b. Black Shadow is capable of much more (you don't read what people say, do you?).
c. Less clones/semi-clones, the better.

a. That's subjective. There are plenty of people I know who really like the way Ganon plays.
b. Agree 100% with you.
c. Again with the clone hating. As of Brawl, we have 4 characters(Luigi, Falco, Ganon, Toonie) out of a roster of almost 40 that can truly be considered clones. The way people talk about getting rid of clones, you'd think there was some kind of epidemic going on.

 

[Deleted member]

A Smash Bros. rip-off, Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion, has outdone it's inspiration in two ways; one of which is that none of the characters are clones.

The gameplay may be horrible compared to Smash, but it managed to not only include all three Powerpuff Girls with completely different sets, but even made an obvious clone (Young Ben) completely different as well.

And no, I'm not hating. I'm saying that we shouldn't be making new clones/semi-clones. If the clones we have are doomed to forever be clones so be it; but no Newcomer should be given the same treatment, and the ones we do have should be the ones that make sense. Luigi? Fine. Falco? Fine. Ganondorf? Hell no; change him. Toon Link? Mileage May Vary. But to make someone new be a clone for the sake of being one, even worse, for the sake of keeping a cloned moveset that shouldn't have been one in the first place is stupid.

And as for how the people you know that like the way Ganon plays, it doesn't make his moveset any less horrible. It just means they are willing to look past it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I never argued that new clones should be a thing. I just wanted to point out that Smash doesn't have nearly as much of a problem with clones as people seem to suggest. To put things in perspective, Super Street Fighter 4 AE, which has a roster about the size of Brawl, has no less than 6 characters who reuse the same basic special moves, and nobody seems particularly bothered by them.

Can you explain precisely why you think Ganondorfs' moveset sucks? If it sucks so much, why is he C tier(only 2 places below falcon, and still competitively viable) in Melee? Why did Project M, which never had problems with giving major overhauls to other characters, keep his moveset mostly as is with tweaks to the properties of his attacks?

 

[DarkSouls]

Please delete, wrong thread.

 

[MR. K]

yeah....i'd rather have Goroh or one of the other original F-zero characters.


Black shadow isn't even in the top 10 list for me as far as F-zero characters go, I'd put Baba in Before him jsut czu of how ridiculous and hilarious he would be(and when he gets star Ko'd have him scream like a girl like he did in F-zero X when he fell off the stage.)


sooo yeah....sorry OP but I don't really care much for black shadow.


EDIT: @shinpichu

i think he was refering to ganon's moveset in brawl....

which...thanks to several physics changes like the removal of L-cancelling...

his moveset became absolute garbage.

 

[Deleted member]

Can you explain precisely why you think Ganondorfs' moveset sucks? If it sucks so much, why is he C tier(only 2 places below falcon, and still competitively viable) in Melee? Why did Project M, which never had problems with giving major overhauls to other characters, keep his moveset mostly as is with minor tweaks to the properties of his attacks?

a. Ganon's current moveset SUCKS.

Way to read. Had nothing to do with Melee, had everything to do with Brawl.

Also, you don't know much about Project M Ganon, do you?

Most of his moveset has been completely restored to its Melee incarnation. Even moves that look visually similar to Brawl, such as his Down-Tilt, function exactly like their Melee counterpart.

Melee Ganon was good. Brawl Ganon was absolute crap.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Way to read. Had nothing to do with Melee, had everything to do with Brawl.

Also, you don't know much about Project M Ganon, do you?

Melee Ganon was good. Brawl Ganon was absolute crap.

Ah, I understand now. A few of the people I know who play Ganon feel the same way about his Brawl moveset. SUPERFICIALLY, most of his moves were the same between the two.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth.

Also, you don't know much about Project M Ganon, do you?

No, actually, I don''t. I never played Ganon much even when he was considered good in melee. He always just felt too slow and/or heavy to me to really want to play. And I was referring to changes from his melee incarnation, not his Brawl moves.

I should also mention I'm a very casual player, so what are probably major changes to the way he plays seem to me like miniscule changes.

Edit: we should probably move this to the Ganon thread...

 

[MasterMushroom]

I had an idea, a crazy idea that just might work. We all know that Captain Falcon's move set was derived from Kamen rider; that's a given. Why not base Black Shadow's aggressive nature as shown in his games, with a more physical and up-close/personal move set?

Without beating around the bush, I've been toying with the idea of giving Black shadow an inspired moveset based on Wrestling. Not the kind of wrestling you're thinking of however, as this derives from something as Captian Falcon was

kinnikuman, also known as Ultimate muscle. Black Shadow would be a perfect candidate for a wrestling/kinnikuman (Ultimate Muscle) inspired move set. Hell, most of the F-Zero cast or modeled after influences from mainstream media or common tropes in Japan. And considering Sakurai is a big fan on Tatsunoko anime/classic heros/and coincidentally enough Kinnikuman; this shouldn't be a problem for him

I haven't made a move-set obviously, as I've been pretty much conceptualizing this with some material I've been watching and playing. What would your reaction be if this happened?

 

[Deleted member]

I think it would be hilarious. He defintely has that masked wrestler look.

I suppose if Falcon can derive from Kamen Rider, Black Shadow can derive from Kinnikuman.

 

[Frostwraith]

while my opinion isn't favorable for F-Zero characters, because of the near decade without new releases, I like the idea of a villainous representant of the series.

and yeah, Sakurai should hire Wakamoto to do his voice, since he voiced him in the anime. since the Pokémon characters also use their anime voices and the actor made the character popular in Japan, I don't think it's a bad idea.

Spoiler

may just apply to the Japanese version, if he has spoken likes in Japanese...

 

[Deleted member]

Well, perhaps Wakamoto can use an Engrish voice for BS like Falcon's voice actor does. That way, we still get Wakamoto BS in the English version.

 

[Deleted member]

Bumped this old thread from the scrap heap.

Just so I can post this:

Just look at that magnificent load of bull.

 

[Diddy Kong]

FARKUN PANCE!!!!!

I really wanna Falcon Punch this dude. And I'd enjoy doing it over and over and over again,

 

[Xhampi]

Count me in, the guy is my main character in every F-Zero game he's in.
Also it's hard to not want Black Shadow after watching the anime.

I will be happy regardless of him getting a full new moveset or Ganondorf old one (since I like Captain Ganon).

Just as long that Black Shadow isn't portrayed as Deathborn's scared lackey once again and Sakurai give him his anime voice I'm alright.

 

[Hoots]

Well, perhaps Wakamoto can use an Engrish voice for BS like Falcon's voice actor does. That way, we still get Wakamoto BS in the English version.

That would be so goddamn incredible.

Black Shadow's best shot is if Sakurai wants to finally fully declone Ganondorf, and just pass the old moveset onto him. If that means two F-Zero reps, I would be totally fine with that.

 

[Louie G.]

Bump, since I support Black Shadow wholeheartedly.
F-Zero deserves another character, simply put, but I don't see Goroh happening this time. I DO think that Shadow would inherit Ganondorf's moveset though, as it's a perfect idea. We get a new Ganondorf, and we keep the fans of old Ganondorf happy (even though I don't like old Ganondorf).
And I put him on my roster mainly because of his Japanese popularity.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, I really let this thread fall far down the backburner....

 

[Davidreamcatcha]

You know, I was just talking about it, and I'm starting to realize that I wish that Ganondorf was never put in Melee and that Black Shadow was put in instead.

Sakurai remarks that the main reason Ganondorf got into Melee on the Melee site is because he was so similar to Falcon's build. He padded the roster out with the five clone characters (Dorf, Doc, Roy, Pichu, Young Link) So, put Black Shadow in Melee instead of Dorf and make him the heavy slow cloned Falcon.

They'd realize during Brawl's development how crucial of a character Ganondorf is and include him with a unique moveset, and he would've had a hype train far above even Ridley's during the Smashboards hype and be celebrated universally once he got in.

It would've been a win-win scenario.

 

[Deleted member]

I've really got to keep upkeep on this thread....

 

[Zhadgon]

You are doing a good job, don't worry, I would like to see Black Shadow with the stats of Ganondorf and with his moveset but maybe more Luigified like keep the strong moves, removes the weak ones or the not so helpful ones and add some flavor and you will have perfect mix for the character. Then Ganondorf would get a complete overhaul to be closer to his incarnations in Zelda series.
.n_n.

 

[APC99]

I'm surprised a character who is rather popular has such a lack of posts in his own thread.

I definitely support him, clone or not. It's nice to see more villains, and I feel that, if Black Shadow became a dark, powerful villain with energy punches, maybe we'll finally see Ganondorf use magic and his abilities from his own games. Besides the Flame Choke.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

If he's included I'd like him to have a slight re-design.
That being, an actual Minotaur Man.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean actually be part bull?
...I dunno.....

 

[Pacack]

(Still one of my dark horse candidates)

 

[Xzsmmc]

You know, I was just talking about it, and I'm starting to realize that I wish that Ganondorf was never put in Melee and that Black Shadow was put in instead.

Sakurai remarks that the main reason Ganondorf got into Melee on the Melee site is because he was so similar to Falcon's build. He padded the roster out with the five clone characters (Dorf, Doc, Roy, Pichu, Young Link) So, put Black Shadow in Melee instead of Dorf and make him the heavy slow cloned Falcon.

They'd realize during Brawl's development how crucial of a character Ganondorf is and include him with a unique moveset, and he would've had a hype train far above even Ridley's during the Smashboards hype and be celebrated universally once he got in.

It would've been a win-win scenario.

I was thinking about that the other day as well. Such a shame. I'd have relinquished Dr. Mario and Falco to get a proper Ganondorf in the next game.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll support. Black Shadow could be a fun character.

 

[Louie G.]

I literally just got what the title was referencing.
Shows how much I actually know about F-Zero.
I still support Black Shadow though.

 

[praline]

I'd be kinda cool with Black Shadow. Honestly I want a huge roster for this Smash so the more cool characters the merrier.