To Those Who Favor Brawl, Let's Finally Admit It...

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

fighting snake and mk all the time would suck lol

 

[WestCoastNinja]

Knew that was coming...

Anyway, I dont do tournys and I rarely get an mk or snake when brawling a freind.

 

[Lightning Ice]

If you don't go to tourneys I doubt you would find mainly Marth and Fox players either in melee.

 

[WhoIsMrBlack]

If Brawl had the same elements Melee had, that would be the case, but it isn't.

I'm going to be direct about this and say that Brawl virtually has no learning curve what-so-ever. Every concept of the game boils down to using only basic elements which don't require any reflexes, skill, or fast movements in general. Everyone who has started Brawl has been on the same level of play from now since the day it has released, and there has been no universal progression in the game. essentially, you prefer Brawl because you now have the opportunity to beat professional players because they have been brought down into the same playing field as a casual player. which is ridiculous (Although needless to say).

Melee players prefer Melee because they want to play a fighting game, not a party game with fighting aesthetics. But more than anything else, there is no possible way to say that Melee didn't have a steep learning curve.

Do your homework before making unsupported assumptions.

If you're that competitive, go play a sport xD

But seriously, how can you say it's a BAD thing that Brawl is a lot easier to be good at. How can it be a bad thing that anyone can play the game well and have fun now without having to be told/learn weird exploits that weren't even intended in the first place. The game was intended to be a fun, fast-paced fighting game... not some sort of elitist club where you spend hours practicing in order to dominate anyone who just plays the game for fun.

Further... there IS ATs in Brawl ANYWAY, so I don't see what you're complaining about. They're just not as gamebreaking, which IMO is a very good thing... it gives a 'serious' player an advantage, but doesn't automatically guarantee them a win. The ATs in Brawl reward 'serious' players rather than punish 'casual' players.

And clearly Brawl DOES require reflexes, skill and fast movements. Seriously I have no idea where your comment on that came from.

Yes we do like Brawl better because we have the opportunity to beat 'professional' players. Of course we do. It's much better that everyone has an opportunity rather than no hope at all. Clearly.

 

[GreatFalco]

****, I prefer Brawl being very good at melee, and I'm very good at Brawl, not so much like I used to be in melee, but hey, I'm getting better each week.

For example this video me playing melee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2bn3rCQdDQ

It proves my skills.

Brawl can be played very well. It's a better smash bros game and it's really funny.

 

[MarKO X]

If you're that competitive, go play a sport xD

AWESOME! But in the defense of the general competitor, if you can win or lose, a competition exists. Period, whether your opponent are as competitive as you or not.

And clearly Brawl DOES require reflexes, skill and fast movements. Seriously I have no idea where your comment on that came from.

Yes, but Melee plays on Street Fighter's Turbo 5 Crackhead Speed. And I will continue to promote that until people start to catch on...

 

[BentoBox]

You people nuked this thread :[

 

[Fatmanonice]

@ Bentobox:

Whenever there's a Melee vs Brawl thread, it pretty much nukes itself.

@ OP:

Yes, I sucked at Melee because I really didn't have any competition. Most of my friends stopped caring about Smash in 2003 and I didn't find this site until late 2005 but was only inspired to make an account when Brawl was offically announced. When your only source of competition was the level 9 computer and you already kicked the crap out of your friends/relatives, there really wasn't much inspiration to get better. I couldn't even drive for the first three years that Melee was out so even if I had known about tournaments, I'd more than likely wouldn't have been able to go thus keeping me at a constant level mediocrity anyways.

Anyways, I prefer Brawl for the following reasons:

1. The music
2. The variety in characters and franchises represented
3. The variety in stages (Honestly, I love stages like Frigate Orpheon and Castle Siege)

and for the biggest reason

4. Because of online, I actually have competition and thus actually have a reason to get better (which I have consideribly)

Just thought I'd get that out there. Also, if I "wrong" for my personal opinion of which game I prefer, then there definately needs to be some reform on these boards.

Also before I go, I really, really, REALLY hate the blanket statement that all it takes to be good at Brawl is picking Snake. That beyond anything else just insults my intelligence. Him and Metaknight are hard to beat but not impossible. People really need to understand this. Really, the "play as Snake or lose LOL" comments have been stale for months especially when it's obvious that he isn't the only person winning tournaments.

 

[4Serial]

But seriously, how can you say it's a BAD thing that Brawl is a lot easier to be good at. How can it be a bad thing that anyone can play the game well and have fun now without having to be told/learn weird exploits that weren't even intended in the first place. The game was intended to be a fun, fast-paced fighting game... not some sort of elitist club where you spend hours practicing in order to dominate anyone who just plays the game for fun.

Further... there IS ATs in Brawl ANYWAY, so I don't see what you're complaining about. They're just not as gamebreaking, which IMO is a very good thing... it gives a 'serious' player an advantage, but doesn't automatically guarantee them a win. The ATs in Brawl reward 'serious' players rather than punish 'casual' players.

And clearly Brawl DOES require reflexes, skill and fast movements. Seriously I have no idea where your comment on that came from.

Yes we do like Brawl better because we have the opportunity to beat 'professional' players. Of course we do. It's much better that everyone has an opportunity rather than no hope at all. Clearly.

Why is it such a bad thing that learning to play Brawl is so easy? Why is it so bad that the gap between professionals and newbies is so small? Because "professionals" have practiced for YEARS and a person who just got the game for like 2 months can pretty much keep up with that professional. All the hard work and dedication is wasted and that's so ridiculously stupid.
I really don't get what you mean by practicing just to beat someone who plays the game casually. You obviously practice to beat other people who play the game competitively. What a dumb statement.

It's not a matter of which games have MORE advanced techniques. Melee's advanced techniques gave it depth and strategy. Wavedashing gave more options like spacing, comboing, manuevering, and a lot more. Brawl is just naturally (okay, I'm just gonna say it) slower, campier, extremely more defensively played in comparison to Melee. No AT's will really change that. What does Brawl have? Snake dashing? You can spam it the whole match against certain characters and win?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Theoritically, Metaknight can just spam the mach tornado the entire match to win but has anyone really done that? The same could be said about mortar sliding. While I'm at it, pray-tell, who are the characters that can solely be beaten by mortar sliding? Considering how every character has like 2-3 moves that can stop it if they collide, I seriously doubt this could go on for an entire 7-8 minute match.

Also, this is another blanket statement I can't stand, who are these "newbies" that are kicking the crap out of professionals? People always bring this up but no one bothers to provide evidence towards it. Honestly, if someone like Cort, Eggz. or Boss8 can be defeated by a Fsmash happy Ike then your statement would hold water but this definately isn't the case. I'm probably an average player and I know for a fact that I'd probably get 3-4 stocked if I had to fight one of them despite putting so much time into the game for the past 4 months.

 

[FortWilliamLoyal]

I certainly didn't suck at Melee yet I prefer Brawl

 

[n3g4t1v3]

I like it because I have this thing about being "updated". Its kind of like... I use windows vista.

 

[Kal]

Ridiculous. I wake up to see this thread get destroyed by Brawl n00bs who think that Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game.

First of all, it's obviously a fighter. Fighting is a genre of video game that emphasizes one-on-one combat between players, or between a character controlled by a player and one controlled by the game's AI. This is exactly what tournaments emphasize. In tournaments, we are playing a fighting game.

And while it may not be intentionally competitive, that isn't relevant in the context of which game is better competitively. In other words, whether or not Brawl is a competitive game or not is independent of how it was intended to be. Melee wasn't intended to be exceptionally deep, but it turned out to be. What you people are arguing is that we should not play the games the way we want because that's not how it's intended. There is no aspect in the game's manual which says "tournaments should be run as follows," nor is there any sort of moral or legal obligation to run a tournament if there were. Essentially, people who are saying "it's not how it was intended" are scrubs. They're not playing to win.

Finally, the fact that Brawl is easier to learn only makes winning less rewarding. It's like winning at Checkers instead of Chess, or God of War's "Spartan Mode" instead of "God Mode." Not only that, but it reduces the impacts of experience and natural talent on a player's chances of winning. Finally, it's looking at adversity (Melee), and instead of standing up to the adversity, giving up to do something easier (Brawl).

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I like it because I have this thing about being "updated". Its kind of like... I use windows vista.

LOL you must not know how much people hate vista and the rep it has. Bad comparison if you're for brawl lol

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

One would think that competition-crazy individuals would LIKE having the rapid influx of opponents that can actually stand a chance against them. If you put in all that time to practice, you're still better, and you're still more likely to win. There is no way that any noob can possibly best a pro 2/3. All Brawl does is give them a chance to be a little more competition for the big boys. What's so wrong with that?

 

[Mewter]

Exactly what Cloud Cleaver said.
I like Brawl, I didn't stink at Melee, but I like Brawl more.
The only problem I have with it is the absence of the character in my avatar. I use to main him and Link. Now that Brawl is out, I stink at Link, Mewtwo isn't there, but I found a new character to main, Lucario.
By the way, type "Brawl Flaws and A small bit of Ranting" into the forum search. Remember this? Yeah. This is that just with another name.

Ridiculous. I wake up to see this thread get destroyed by Brawl n00bs who think that Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game.

First of all, it's obviously a fighter. Fighting is a genre of video game that emphasizes one-on-one combat between players, or between a character controlled by a player and one controlled by the game's AI. This is exactly what tournaments emphasize. In tournaments, we are playing a fighting game.

And while it may not be intentionally competitive, that isn't relevant in the context of which game is better competitively. In other words, whether or not Brawl is a competitive game or not is independent of how it was intended to be. Melee wasn't intended to be exceptionally deep, but it turned out to be. What you people are arguing is that we should not play the games the way we want because that's not how it's intended. There is no aspect in the game's manual which says "tournaments should be run as follows," nor is there any sort of moral or legal obligation to run a tournament if there were. Essentially, people who are saying "it's not how it was intended" are scrubs. They're not playing to win.

Finally, the fact that Brawl is easier to learn only makes winning less rewarding. It's like winning at Checkers instead of Chess, or God of War's "Spartan Mode" instead of "God Mode." Not only that, but it reduces the impacts of experience and natural talent on a player's chances of winning. Finally, it's looking at adversity (Melee), and instead of standing up to the adversity, giving up to do something easier (Brawl).

I don't count, unless your user is another user to make up for one that was banned. I'm telling you now, I like Brawl. I like Melee. I play Melee when I want a faster game. That's it.

Brawl is easier to learn? Maybe. It doesn't stop me.

 

[EvonJ]

Why is it such a bad thing that learning to play Brawl is so easy? Why is it so bad that the gap between professionals and newbies is so small? Because "professionals" have practiced for YEARS and a person who just got the game for like 2 months can pretty much keep up with that professional. All the hard work and dedication is wasted and that's so ridiculously stupid.
I really don't get what you mean by practicing just to beat someone who plays the game casually. You obviously practice to beat other people who play the game competitively. What a dumb statement.

I would like to bring up my post from awhile ago about pros crying because they don't 4 stock noobs anymore. The better player will win. Someone picking up a controller for the first time will not beat Azen or some other really really good player. If someone is that much of a baby that they are upset that, REGARDLESS THAT THEY STILL WIN, they think it should have taken no damage or something that they are going whine about it then they are childish. And again, I don't see how people can spend years trying to get so good at a game for their youtube 15 minutes of fame and a few hundred bucks.

One would think that competition-crazy individuals would LIKE having the rapid influx of opponents that can actually stand a chance against them. If you put in all that time to practice, you're still better, and you're still more likely to win. There is no way that any noob can possibly best a pro 2/3. All Brawl does is give them a chance to be a little more competition for the big boys. What's so wrong with that?

But they don't want to just win, they want to destroy them, put a video on youtube, go "LOL EPIC KNEE OMG" and call it day. There's your year of practice put to good use.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

I, too, mained Link in Melee. I sucked at Brawl when it first came out, because I tried to play Link.

But Brawl has more characters to offset Link's newfound crappiness. More choices > Less choices.

Stage Builder > No Stage Builder

540-something trophies > 290 trophies

258 songs > 1 BGM per stage and a few extras

Co-op Stadium Mode > Single-player only Stadium

Forcefield around the Sandbag > No forcefield around the Sandbag

Online availability > Gamecube's anti-onlineness

Save-able replays > No replays

That's a lot of stuff that works in Brawl's favor. The developers took good advantage of their chance to fix some things that just weren't as good as they could have been in the previous installment(s).

 

[Mewter]

I, too, mained Link in Melee. I sucked at Brawl when it first came out, because I tried to play Link.

But Brawl has more characters to offset Link's newfound crappiness. More choices > Less choices.

Stage Builder > No Stage Builder

540-something trophies > 290 trophies

258 songs > 1 BGM per stage and a few extras

Co-op Stadium Mode > Single-player only Stadium

Forcefield around the Sandbag > No forcefield around the Sandbag

Online availability > Gamecube's anti-onlineness

Save-able replays > No replays

That's a lot of stuff that works in Brawl's favor. The developers took good advantage of their chance to fix some things that just weren't as good as they could have been in the previous installment(s).

Really cool.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I, too, mained Link in Melee. I sucked at Brawl when it first came out, because I tried to play Link.

But Brawl has more characters to offset Link's newfound crappiness. More choices > Less choices.

Stage Builder > No Stage Builder

540-something trophies > 290 trophies

258 songs > 1 BGM per stage and a few extras

Co-op Stadium Mode > Single-player only Stadium

Forcefield around the Sandbag > No forcefield around the Sandbag

Online availability > Gamecube's anti-onlineness

Save-able replays > No replays

That's a lot of stuff that works in Brawl's favor. The developers took good advantage of their chance to fix some things that just weren't as good as they could have been in the previous installment(s).[/QUOTE

non competitive play<competitive play
slow<fast
snake wins everything<snake does not
no wavedash<wavedash
no hitstun< hitstun

 

[Razmakazi]

imo 70% of why people prefer melee AND bash brawl (not one or the other but both) is because they've been playing melee for 6-7 years and still enjoy it. It's like that family guy episode where Stewie became a momma's boy ("I'VE GROWN ACCUSTOMED TO YOUR FACE" song).

 

[EvonJ]

non competitive play<competitive play
slow<fast
snake wins everything<snake does not
no wavedash<wavedash
no hitstun< hitstun

What you listed are really more of your personal opinions on what you think the game should be. Apparently you think it should be Melee so go play Melee.

Snake doesn't = win.

The other poster was really stating facts that Brawl does in fact have more features, you can't argue that brawl doesn't have a stage builder, more trophies and whatever was mentioned.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

What you listed are really more of your personal opinions on what you think the game should be. Apparently you think it should be Melee so go play Melee.

Snake doesn't = win.

The other poster was really stating facts that Brawl does in fact have more features, you can't argue that brawl doesn't have a stage builder, more trophies and whatever was mentioned.

And i seriously could care less about those features.

Stage builder? More trophies? I dont care about that ****

All i care about is the gameplay

 

[EvonJ]

So go play the game you want to play then. Remember, it takes a year to get good at melee so you should probably stop posting and get to practicing.

 

[Grandeza]

I suck at melee but I still prefer melee over brawl so much. Melee is just such a superior game.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

It takes a hour to get good at brawl, you should get to it

 

[EvonJ]

If that were true we'd all be pros. I've already said that I'm not great at either game. But they are both fun.

But really, if you dislike the game for all these many reasons why don't you just play the other one? I'm not trying to be funny by asking, I really want to know. It seems many people want to talk about how much they hate brawl for all these reasons and still play, or still argue about it. What's the point?

 

[Kal]

I would like to bring up my post from awhile ago about pros crying because they don't 4 stock noobs anymore. The better player will win. Someone picking up a controller for the first time will not beat Azen or some other really really good player.

We don't think that random n00bs who haven't played the game yet will win. We do think that the skill cap is considerably lower, reducing the potential for "high level play."

If someone is that much of a baby that they are upset that, REGARDLESS THAT THEY STILL WIN, they think it should have taken no damage or something that they are going whine about it then they are childish.

How is this relevant? Even if you're correct, you're not making a point relative to the current discussion. This is tangential. You, sir, are acting childish.

And again, I don't see how people can spend years trying to get so good at a game for their youtube 15 minutes of fame and a few hundred bucks.

Ken made over $40,000 playing Melee. And I don't think anyone good plays for fame. It's usually about the love of the game.

But they don't want to just win, they want to destroy them, put a video on youtube, go "LOL EPIC KNEE OMG" and call it day. There's your year of practice put to good use.

Your entire post has been an insult to the notion of playing the game competitively. Fine, if you want to think that, you can make that choice. But that's not part of the discussion. How about you act like an adult and try contributing, or avoid posting entirely?

I, too, mained Link in Melee. I sucked at Brawl when it first came out, because I tried to play Link.

But Brawl has more characters to offset Link's newfound crappiness. More choices > Less choices.

More choices in character. Less choices in gameplay, since the physics engine is garbage.

Stage Builder > No Stage Builder

Is the stage builder used for tournaments? You don't even have a particularly good stage-editor, since you can't adjust the height of the ceiling.

540-something trophies > 290 trophies

258 songs > 1 BGM per stage and a few extras

Co-op Stadium Mode > Single-player only Stadium

Forcefield around the Sandbag > No forcefield around the Sandbag

Online availability > Gamecube's anti-onlineness

Save-able replays > No replays

That's a lot of stuff that works in Brawl's favor. The developers took good advantage of their chance to fix some things that just weren't as good as they could have been in the previous installment(s).

Almost all of the rest of your post has been about single player. When it comes to single player, most players agree that Brawl is better. Regardless, that's not what we're discussing! We are talking about which game is better competitively. Seriously, try staying on topic.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I dont own brawl and I dont play it because i dont like it.
1 hour with snake= "pro"

 

[LavisFiend]

Ok, so time for a facepwn.

General Brawl Discussion is just that; Brawl discussion.

Trying to say that melee supporters can't post here? Is irrelavent.

If they believe that Melee is greater than Brawl in terms of competitive prowess (and it IS,) then let them. Who are you to care? Who are you, to sit there, and deny a person the right to gripe about a game? What are you AFRAID of? They are not going to kill the Brawl experience for you.

If they bother you so much, tune them the hell out; you don't have to listen to them if you don't want to. Everything in this board is opinion. Everything. You can't push facts on somebody if they do not believe they are facts because everything is subjective.

Of course Melee won't seem like the competitive powerhouse to people who didn't play it that often, so naturally their opinion of Brawl being equal is based off of ill-knowledge. A melee supporter is not wrong about their knowledge of the game if they did their homework and research on the evolving metagame.

Why try to correct somebody if there is not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening? What do you acheive by wasting your time, laying out the facts, laying out the cold hard truth, when it will be LOST to people who did not grow with Melee?

If they want Brawl to be "equal" to Melee, let them think that. You will not convince ANYONE who has that mindset otherwise because THEY will believe what they want to because Brawl, to them, seems like a more "balanced" Melee due to balance illusions.

This whole **** board has devolved into sides that should not even be there. EVERYTHING, IN THIS BOARD, BY ANY USER, REGARDLESS OF WHOM, IS OPINION. YOU MAY HAVE FACTS, BUT THEY WON'T BE FACTS TO THE ILL-INFORMED.

One thing that will remain unfaltered is this though;

it is Brawl Discussion. Melee supporters have every right to discuss how much they DESPISE Brawl just like how much you guys LOVE Brawl.

Quit...

Trying...

To force things on people. Just give your opinion, and if no one agrees? Oh well. Either open your mind to accept other peoples takes on things, or just stay close-minded.

But QUIT trying to make either side out as the victims.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Ok, so time for a facepwn.

General Brawl Discussion is just that; Brawl discussion.

Trying to say that melee supporters can't post here? Is irrelavent.

If they believe that Melee is greater than Brawl in terms of competitive prowess (and it IS,) then let them. Who are you to care? Who are you, to sit there, and deny a person the right to gripe about a game? What are you AFRAID of? They are not going to kill the Brawl experience for you.

If they bother you so much, tune them the hell out; you don't have to listen to them if you don't want to. Everything in this board is opinion. Everything. You can't push facts on somebody if they do not believe they are facts because everything is subjective.

Of course Melee won't seem like the competitive powerhouse to people who didn't play it that often, so naturally their opinion of Brawl being equal is based off of ill-knowledge. A melee supporter is not wrong about their knowledge of the game if they did their homework and research on the evolving metagame.

Why try to correct somebody if there is not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening? What do you acheive by wasting your time, laying out the facts, laying out the cold hard truth, when it will be LOST to people who did not grow with Melee?

If they want Brawl to be "equal" to Melee, let them think that. You will not convince ANYONE who has that mindset otherwise because THEY will believe what they want to because Brawl, to them, seems like a more "balanced" Melee due to balance illusions.

This whole **** board has devolved into sides that should not even be there. EVERYTHING, IN THIS BOARD, BY ANY USER, REGARDLESS OF WHOM, IS OPINION. YOU MAY HAVE FACTS, BUT THEY WON'T BE FACTS TO THE ILL-INFORMED.

One thing that will remain unfaltered is this though;

it is Brawl Discussion. Melee supporters have every right to discuss how much they DESPISE Brawl just like how much you guys LOVE Brawl.

Quit...

Trying...

To force things on people. Just give your opinion, and if no one agrees? Oh well. Either open your mind to accept other peoples takes on things, or just stay close-minded.

But QUIT trying to make either side out as the victims.

no u

lol jk

 

[LavisFiend]

no u

lol jk

I am sorry mah boi, I don't speak hippenhoop. )=

 

[EvonJ]

We don't think that random n00bs who haven't played the game yet will win. We do think that the skill cap is considerably lower, reducing the potential for "high level play."

Ken made over $40,000 playing Melee. And I don't think anyone good plays for fame. It's usually about the love of the game.

Almost all of the rest of your post has been about single player. When it comes to single player, most players agree that Brawl is better. Regardless, that's not what we're discussing! We are talking about which game is better competitively. Seriously, try staying on topic.

I think we all agree with the first statement here, it'd be silly to say otherwise. I'm not sure about the high level play part though. There are still tournaments for Brawl and people winning money and such. If you're talking about depth then the game is really what you make of it.

The second statement is really amazing. I didn't know that, and that is very cool. I don't think most people will be doing that. Is this over the course of many years? I'd like to see how this happened. Everyone should play because they love the game, and let other people play for the same reason.

Third statement, I thought this topic was about liking Brawl for whatever reasons you do, if you just do or if you were bad at melee...

I dont own brawl and I dont play it because i dont like it.
1 hour with snake= "pro"

Then you are not in that group of people who play brawl even though you hate it. But why do you want to post about it if you don't even play it? You can't justify your ideas through experience since you don't play?

And no, or else everyone would only play snake and everyone would be winning every match all the time regardless.

EDIT - and I have to leave, so I won't be able to type anything for awhile.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I am sorry mah boi, I don't speak hippenhoop. )=

um....what?

 

[AetherLord]

Hey I used to suck at Melee, too and recently I decided to go back cuz I missed it and wanted to be better cuz there was like nothing to learn from brawl except spam and camp...
Now I'm better than ever but I know that I'm FAR from being pro...

Not banking on people who like Brawl..That's their decision.

I have made mine...

 

[fkacyan]

I suck at melee but I still prefer melee over brawl so much. Melee is just such a superior game.

When's the next time you'll be at Nick's? We should play.

 

[Dav657]

melee has something over brawl that I cant really say. Its just the game that was a beautiful mistake. Something developers never realize. Then turn the game into poop. Everything seemed to click. I don't hate brawl but for competitive play...melee all the way.

also snake is way to easy to get good with. so is mk.

 

[Mewter]

I would play Melee but lost my memory card

It also makes Mewtwo impossible.

Edit:

Well of course if you're already good at Melee you own at Brawl.
I played Kirby once and beat a Kirby Main. Did I even train in Brawl? NO. I trained in Melee. Seriously, if you are just a noob coming out of nowhere, you can't be THAT good.

And Melee does have something that Brawl doesn't, some things that can't be seen, and Mewtwo.
But Brawl has some things too. Imagine if some hidden tech were found that you really like, would you play Brawl?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Mewtwo doesn't exist

 

[Mewter]

Mewtwo doesn't exist

I don't get the joke. You mean no one plays Mewtwo? Of couse not. But I do.