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The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

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Curious Villager

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This is because Samus was one of the first characters revealed, and Zelda not too long afterwards. The point being, these characters were both revealed before we were told that character transformations were gone.

When we were told that, we were given ZSS, Shiek, Charizard, and... Yoshi.

3 Character transformation vets, and yoshi.

If squirtle/ivy were coming back, it would have been there. I thought even Charizard had been cut until the end of the direct.
Well it's not like I'm expecting these two to return either at this point, I was just saying that Zamus and Sheik weren't revealed alongside Zelda and Samus either, unless I misunderstood his point which is probably the case I guess. :/

Anyway, I don't really think Ivy and Squirtle will be showing up though unless they would be doing some sort of character DLC for cut veterans or something.
 

Phaazoid

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Well it's not like I'm expecting these two to return either at this point, I was just saying that Zamus and Sheik weren't revealed alongside Zelda and Samus either, unless I misunderstood his point which is probably the case I guess. :/

Anyway, I don't really think Ivy and Squirtle will be showing up though unless they would be doing some sort of character DLC for cut veterans or something.
I understand what you were saying and what your opinion was, and I understood that you were just picking with your counterpoint. I was just providing context to the specifics of what you were picking because with the extra frame of reference it kind of changes how you view the order of the reveals.
 

TheAnvil

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This is because Samus was one of the first characters revealed, and Zelda not too long afterwards. The point being, these characters were both revealed before we were told that character transformations were gone.

When we were told that, we were given ZSS, Shiek, Charizard, and... Yoshi.

3 Character transformation vets, and yoshi.

If squirtle/ivy were coming back, it would have been there. I thought even Charizard had been cut until the end of the direct.



5 million is about 1/4 of 20 million

13 games ~ 13 main characters (some had more than one, some had the same, so it's an estimation)
Pokemon >700 characters.

Smash is about representing Nintendo's different franchises. Pokemon is bigger than Fire emblem, so the get more reps. The most popular reps from fire emblem are still more popular than bottom of the barrel pokemon that you probably haven't even heard of, like Maractus. \

I'll admit that Squirtle and Ivysaur are definitely more in the limelight than a lot of other pokemon, being gen 1 starters, and appearing in Brawl. But they do not stand out more than power players like Mewtwo. They already have 4 pokemon announced. We aren't gonna get more than 2 more.

Sure, if you put a poll of overall knowledge of the general population, more people would probably be able to name Squirtle than Ike. But that's not what this is about. Otherwise, why represent Fire emblem at all? Why not just put marth in and call it a day?

Because importance of the character to their respective franchise is what matters. There are only a limited number of spots for playable character for franchise, so it doesn't matter if more people can identify a goomba than Ike, Ike is going to make the cut because of his centrality to Fire Emblem, and goomba isn't because of his lack of centrality to Mario IN COMPARISON to the mario characters who are playable.
Yes 5 million is 1/4 of 20 million. Except FE hasn't sold 5 million (I can't find any official source on the number, but it doesn't appear on the list of video game franchises with over 5 million copies sold) , and Pokemon Red/Blue sold 23.64 million.

Number of characters in a franchise is a moot point. We're talking specifically about star power. And the starter pokemon from the most well known and successful Pokemon game Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't just "random" pokemon, they're Pokemon icons, EVERYONE knows who they are.
Would Tombi have more star power than Squirtle because he appeared in a couple games as the one and only main character? Of course not, because hardly anyone knows what Tombi is.

The fact that they aren't as popular or Iconic as other Pokemon is irrelevant. Toad is not as popular or relevant as Mario, but he's still an A-list Nintendo character, and has more star power than basically every non-Mario series' character on the game.

Your original point was that Squirtle and Ivysaur didn't have the star power to pull off their own individual slots (which is wrong within itself as they were considered 3 separate characters by the man himself in Brawl but I digress), they're more popular and well known than those other characters. It's concrete fact. So yes, that IS what this is about, star power. Squirtle and Ivysaur have it in spades.

I don't see where the evidence is that we won't get more than 2 more. We had 6 in Brawl, with 2 more planned. That's 8, why is seven so hard to comprehend now?

And by the logic that they're cut because they weren't shown with Charizard, I present you Sheik and ZSS.
And by the logic that they're cut because they weren't shown with the transformation characters, I present you Charizard.
 
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Zwzchow

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In my opinion this guy is just making a bunch of safe guesses. The only thing I find odd is how he says falco will be revealed this week, which is throwing himself under the bus if that doesnt happen. I'll just remain skeptical for now.

Although I wonder, if he has character sheets, why does he only know about specific ones? My guess would be that he doesn't have individual sheets for Wario, Ice Climbers, Rhythm Heaven, Game&Watch, R.O.B, etc? It just seems a bit odd, but then again I'm not quite sure how promo material works. Only franchise not mentioned that I question is Fire Emblem, which already has 2 characters revealed. What about Chrom?
Hold on a minute is the guy saying that falco will be revealed this week the same from Gematsu's?
 

Stage4Boss

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Marth is on the cover. The likelihood is that Marth is no longer unlockable. That said Toon Link probably still is unlockable.
Has anyone considered that the starting rosters for Wii U and 3ds could be different? The demos certainly had slightly different rosters.
 
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NickerBocker

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It may be too early to show Falco, but at the same time it could be reasonable seeing as the release window is approaching fast (2 1/2 months away from Japan release, and therefore, knowing the roster) there may be an increase of information being released to help hype the game more. Hell, I wouldnt even rule out newcomers being randomly shown on the website (although its probably a pipe dream.) Point is, a veteran reveal this close to e3 is definitely possible. We have been getting more info as of late, most notably newcomers coming from directs. Veterans are typically once a month, but I can invision 2 per month until release being quite possible.
 

NoiseHERO

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Has anyone considered that the starting rosters for Wii U and 3ds could be different? The demos certainly had slightly different rosters.
That's actually kind of interesting. (like toonlink is a starter and Link is the unlockable in the 3DS version or something.)

A major impression I'm getting is that a lot of people are thinking some unlockables are redundant. But I think secret unlockables are kinda... outdated. they may as well be revealed sooner to produce hype at the cost of killing the surprise, then just be secret but the surprise is ruined either way by the internet.

At least I'd prefer to know everyone whose getting in/returning.
 

Capybara Gaming

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To be honest I'd prefer them to just tell us the rest of the vets that are done in one big lump. Just show us the people coming back and then show us in the months leading up to release.
 

Zwzchow

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That's actually kind of interesting. (like toonlink is a starter and Link is the unlockable in the 3DS version or something.)

A major impression I'm getting is that a lot of people are thinking some unlockables are redundant. But I think secret unlockables are kinda... outdated. they may as well be revealed sooner to produce hype at the cost of killing the surprise, then just be secret but the surprise is ruined either way by the internet..
I do remember Lucario's hype as a secret character killed when it was leaked that he would be in :/

The rest of the secret newcomers (ie Wolf Toon Link and ROB) Didn't see very hyping
(Do correct me if I am wrong, I can't remember if any of the 3 were hyping at all)

So there's a chance of the less popular newcomers being secret though (may not be true refer to Lucario)

Edit: I am referring to brawl
 
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True Blue Warrior

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No, I just prefer secret characters still being around. After all, secret characters are not needed to hype up Smash and them not being revealed pre-release won't have any negative effect.
 

Capybara Gaming

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I do remember Lucario's hype as a secret character killed when it was leaked that he would be in :/

The rest of the secret newcomers (ie Wolf Toon Link and ROB) Didn't see very hyping
(Do correct me if I am wrong, I can't remember if any of the 3 were hyping at all)

So there's a chance of the less popular newcomers being secret though (may not be true refer to Lucario)
Newcomers? You mean veterans. Unless you are referring to Brawl.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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Ghirahim confirmed. Ridley deconfirmed. King K. Rool deconfirmed. Trophy Quiz straw grasp is false.
Am I wrong if I hold my hope on those trophies that would imply newcomers from Zelda (Impa), Metroid (Ridley), FE (Chrom) and KID ICARUS (Palutena) ? That's actually the only thing I could admit as a proof that those newcomers are not the last ones.
Why the trophy quizz if it doesn't mean anything ? 14 newcomers is a good amount. If we remove Lucas, Squi and Ivy, we get 36 veterans for 14 newcomers, giving us 50 characters. Mewtwo back ? 51.

Now that I think about it, the guy on gamefaqs said his "friend" knew at least the number of characters per franchise. Why not giving us more information ? Like, Mario has 5 characters, FE 3 etc... ?
Someone should ask this guy. It's not against the Sal leak actually, so if it's true that Falco is revealed this week, we may as well know the number of characters in the process. :drsad:
 

Pazzo.

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Speaking of secret characters, I don't think we'll see all of them before Oct. 3rd. So we may have to wait until then to find out if the Chorus Kids, or Mewtwo is in.

*Assuming they are secret characters*
 
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NoiseHERO

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To be honest I'd prefer them to just tell us the rest of the vets that are done in one big lump. Just show us the people coming back and then show us in the months leading up to release.
I'd totally be cool with this, then they can just dripfeed us the newcomers instead. <_>

(or just give us the game next week.)
 

Louie G.

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I don't think Chorus Kids will be secret.
They're from a pretty popular IP and have a complex fighting style a la Rosalina or Ice Climbers.
Both who are starter.

If any of the Gematsu Three are secret it's Shulk IMO.
 

TheAnvil

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Am I wrong if I hold my hope on those trophies that would imply newcomers from Zelda (Impa), Metroid (Ridley), FE (Chrom) and KID ICARUS (Palutena) ? That's actually the only thing I could admit as a proof that those newcomers are not the last ones.
Why the trophy quizz if it doesn't mean anything ? 14 newcomers is a good amount. If we remove Lucas, Squi and Ivy, we get 36 veterans for 14 newcomers, giving us 50 characters. Mewtwo back ? 51.

Now that I think about it, the guy on gamefaqs said his "friend" knew at least the number of characters per franchise. Why not giving us more information ? Like, Mario has 5 characters, FE 3 etc... ?
Someone should ask this guy. It's not against the Sal leak actually, so if it's true that Falco is revealed this week, we may as well know the number of characters in the process. :drsad:
I think the trophy quiz theory has a pretty good chance of being true.

Palutena confirmed, Chrom rumoured, Ridley heavily hinted at. Only one left is Ghirahim, and he's not exactly unrealistic.

All of the first party newcomers represent their latest canon/important games in the franchise they're from, especially if they're newcomers from already repped series'
- Greninja from Pokemon X/Y
- Palutena from KI:U
- Rosalina from Mario Galaxy/2
(rumoured) - Chrom from Fire Emblem: Awakening
(hinted) - Ridley has his Other: M look

Obviously Villager is an avatar, but he essentially represents New Leaf, and WFT is a little different, she has her Wii Fit U palette as an alternate.

Little Mac also uses his Wii look, as opposed to the NES/Brawl look.

Seems fairly plausible to me that Ghirahim would be included based on Skyward Sword.
 

ChunkyBeef

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Speaking of secret characters, I don't think we'll see all of them before Oct. 3rd. So we may have to wait until then to find out if the Chorus Kids, or Mewtwo is in.

*Assuming they are secret characters*
We'll know as early as a few days before Smash 3DS drops in Japan. So we'll know a lot sooner than that, my friend. ;)
 

Malkior7

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(wrong thread my bad)

Is there any other supposed leaks that aren't Gematsu/Sal leaks? (that look legit)
 
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MasterOfKnees

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I don't think Chorus Kids will be secret.
They're from a pretty popular IP and have a complex fighting style a la Rosalina or Ice Climbers.
Both who are starter.

If any of the Gematsu Three are secret it's Shulk IMO.
I'm fairly certain they're secret, they're probably going to be our G&W/R.O.B pick for this installment. Yeah, RH is a popular franchise, at least in Japan, but I don't think many people expected a RH rep, let alone one that's likely going to be very whacky in his/their moveset, and the franchise isn't exactly known for its characters either. It's not super marketable either, RH doesn't need to draw attention atm. I don't think they'd whip up much hype either, they're too obscure, especially here in the west, and since our last chance of revealing multiple newcomers at once has passed with E3 I don't think they can stand alone in a Nintendo Direct, that's probably also why Wii Fit Trainer was revealed at last year's E3, she can't really keep hype up on her own, she needed the support, and Chorus Men probably do too.

I feel like if any of the remaining three is going to be a starter, it's probably going to be Shulk. New franchise for Smash, recognized face in the Nintendo fandom, FE already has two reps on the starting roster (I doubt FE won't have any unlockables, especially since all of them are similar), and Chorus Men are just too obscure for many people to get hyped over their inclusion. Shulk just seems like the best pick for that imo.
 
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TeenGirlSquad

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I'm fairly certain they're secret, they're probably going to be our G&W/R.O.B pick for this installment. Yeah, RH is a popular franchise, at least in Japan, but I don't think many people expected a RH rep, let alone one that's likely going to be very whacky in his/their moveset, and the franchise isn't exactly known for its characters either. It's not super marketable either, RH doesn't need to draw attention atm. I don't think they'd whip up much hype either, they're too obscure, especially here in the west, and since our last chance of revealing multiple newcomers at once has passed with E3 I don't think they can stand alone in a Nintendo Direct, that's probably also why Wii Fit Trainer was revealed at last year's E3, she can't really keep hype up on her own, she needed the support, and Chorus Men probably do too.

I feel like if any of the remaining three is going to be a starter, it's probably going to be Shulk. New franchise for Smash, recognized face in the Nintendo fandom, FE already has two reps on the starting roster (I doubt FE won't have any unlockables), and Chorus Men are just too obscure for many people to get hyped over their inclusion. Shulk just seems like the best pick for that imo.
I'm guessing that August will be Shulk as well.
 

Meelow

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Speaking of secret characters, I don't think we'll see all of them before Oct. 3rd. So we may have to wait until then to find out if the Chorus Kids, or Mewtwo is in.

*Assuming they are secret characters*
The 3DS version releases September 13th in Japan, so we'll know the full roster in less then 3 months.
 

TheAnvil

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I'm fairly certain they're secret, they're probably going to be our G&W/R.O.B pick for this installment. Yeah, RH is a popular franchise, at least in Japan, but I don't think many people expected a RH rep, let alone one that's likely going to be very whacky in his/their moveset, and the franchise isn't exactly known for its characters either. It's not super marketable either, RH doesn't need to draw attention atm. I don't think they'd whip up much hype either, they're too obscure, especially here in the west, and since our last chance of revealing multiple newcomers at once has passed with E3 I don't think they can stand alone in a Nintendo Direct, that's probably also why Wii Fit Trainer was revealed at last year's E3, she can't really keep hype up on her own, she needed the support, and Chorus Men probably do too.

I feel like if any of the remaining three is going to be a starter, it's probably going to be Shulk. New franchise for Smash, recognized face in the Nintendo fandom, FE already has two reps on the starting roster (I doubt FE won't have any unlockables, especially since all of them are similar), and Chorus Men are just too obscure for many people to get hyped over their inclusion. Shulk just seems like the best pick for that imo.
Depending on how they'd function, they could drum up a lot of hype. Has there ever been a 3-in-1 fighter in a fighting game before?
 

Spinosaurus

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I feel like if any of the remaining three is going to be a starter, it's probably going to be Shulk. New franchise for Smash, recognized face in the Nintendo fandom, FE already has two reps on the starting roster (I doubt FE won't have any unlockables, especially since all of them are similar), and Chorus Men are just too obscure for many people to get hyped over their inclusion. Shulk just seems like the best pick for that imo.
How in the world is Shulk more recognizable than Chorus Kids? O_o
 

True Blue Warrior

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Also, being "hype-worthy" (as meaningless as it is within this context) doesn't matter at all for regular Directs. Because I'm sure many people on this site would have been skeptical of the idea of not only Rosalina and Greninja being revealed in a Nintendo Direct, but also their ability to hype people. This is especially evident for Greninja as many people did not think we were going to, or needed, a newcomer from X and Y nor would they have thought that any would be "hype-worthy" for a Smash Direct.

If anything, considering at least they have in-game stuff hinting towards a newcomer from their franchise, Chrom and the Chorus Men makes perfect sense to round off the starting roster, especially Chrom.
 

praline

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Some people are. I assume so they can tell themselves that Sal's leak only listed starting characters and Pac-Man, so they can still hope for more characters. I, for one, do not at all expect Toon Link, Sonic, Mega Man, Luigi, Pac-Man, Rosalina, Lucario, Greninja, Chrom, Chorus Kids, or Shulk to be starters. I also expect Ike to be unlockable, but I'm less sure of his status than the others'.
Rosalina is a starter, honestly I can see Lucario and Greninja as starters too. Even Toon Link could be a starter. We'll just see when the game comes out.
 

RawstyleEevee

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Not... Quite... What I'm getting at.
3 Different Characters with their own distinct movesets that you were forced to master due you had to switch continueasly between all 3 of them due the stamina mechanic unlike Zelda/Sheik were you could just choose which form you would want to master
 

Louie G.

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I think Ike will be the unlockable and Chrom will be starter.

Then Chorus Kids as starters as well due to their learning curve and representation of a new IP.

May as well throw Shulk in there as a starter as well to round out the Gematsu Three.
Although I can see Shulk getting the Captain Falcon treatment (lone unlockable representative of an IP).
 

ScottyWK

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Starter/unlockable/secret/whatever. None of it really matters...everyone posting in this thread is going to know who all the characters are going to be within 2-3 months. Why does it matter who is unlockable and whatnot?
 

MasterOfKnees

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How in the world is Shulk more recognizable than Chorus Kids? O_o
Xenoblade is actually about its characters, Shulk being in the middle of that, Rhythm Heaven is almost solely based around its gameplay, the characters are there just to spice things up, at least that's the impression I get. Just look at the intial reaction when they were first leaked, people were dumbfounded at it, and they didn't even have a thread before that either.

Shulk has become quite the face in the Nintendo world, I haven't even played Xenoblade and I knew about him before I came back here for Smash 4 speculation, and mind you I was beginning to get out of touch with Nintendo, I didn't even know guys like Ghirahim or Chrom.

As for the 3-in-1 thing, it depends on how its handled. If they're just going to act like one character with three models then I can see it work, but I don't believe any of them are going to have AIs, Ice Climbers are supposedly already a problem and might even receive changes, the 3DS is going to keep the Chorus Men from being Triple Climbers.
 

KokiriKory

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Starter/unlockable/secret/whatever. None of it really matters...everyone posting in this thread is going to know who all the characters are going to be within 2-3 months. Why does it matter who is unlockable and whatnot?
Unquenchable excitement
 

Spinosaurus

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Xenoblade is actually about its characters, Shulk being in the middle of that, Rhythm Heaven is almost solely based around its gameplay, the characters are there just to spice things up, at least that's the impression I get. Just look at the intial reaction when they were first leaked, people were dumbfounded at it, and they didn't even have a thread before that either.

Shulk has become quite the face in the Nintendo world, I haven't even played Xenoblade and I knew about him before I came back here for Smash 4 speculation, and mind you I was beginning to get out of touch with Nintendo, I didn't even know guys like Ghirahim or Chrom.
I don't think reactions in internet boards mean much. (Though I guess we're talking about trailer hype and all that but whatever) Rhythm Heaven significantly more than Xenoblade with Chorus Kids in the cover (and used for promotions and advertisements), and they're the second minigame in the game after the initial tutorial one. Rhythm Heaven also has a BIG cult following. It's not Team Fortress 2 levels, but the amount of parodies and fan videos of it is nothing to scuff at.

Moreover, I don't remember Shulk being endorsed by a celebrity. On TV.
 
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ScottyWK

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I don't think reactions in internet boards mean much. (Though I guess we're talking about trailer hype and all that but whatever) Rhythm Heaven significantly more than Xenoblade with Chorus Kids in the cover (and used for promotions and advertisements), and they're the second minigame in the game after the initial tutorial one. Rhythm Heaven also has a BIG cult following. It's not Team Fortress 2 levels, but the amount of parodies and fan videos of it is nothing to scuff at.

Moreover, I don't remember Shulk being endorsed by a celebrity. In TV.
I had no idea that video existed. And she likes the Chorus Men in glee club and how animated they are.

Not saying this is confirmation by any means, but this should speak volumes about how much Nintendo thinks of Rhythm Heaven and how it has been received.
 

Young Marth

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I don't think reactions in internet boards mean much. (Though I guess we're talking about trailer hype and all that but whatever) Rhythm Heaven significantly more than Xenoblade with Chorus Kids in the cover (and used for promotions and advertisements), and they're the second minigame in the game after the initial tutorial one. Rhythm Heaven also has a BIG cult following. It's not Team Fortress 2 levels, but the amount of parodies and fan videos of it is nothing to scuff at.

Moreover, I don't remember Shulk being endorsed by a celebrity. In TV.

The Xenoblade fanbase is HUGE especially in japan and there was the huge fan outcry to bring it to the U.S. bigger than Rhythm Heaven I'd say.

I'm fine with either revealed first (cause I love the games) but I don't think we're gonna get another reveal.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I don't think reactions in internet boards mean much. (Though I guess we're talking about trailer hype and all that but whatever) Rhythm Heaven significantly more than Xenoblade with Chorus Kids in the cover (and used for promotions and advertisements), and they're the second minigame in the game after the initial tutorial one. Rhythm Heaven also has a BIG cult following. It's not Team Fortress 2 levels, but the amount of parodies and fan videos of it is nothing to scuff at.

Moreover, I don't remember Shulk being endorsed by a celebrity. In TV.
The thing is that people remember the gameplay more so than anything else. Xenoblade is much more character centric, and because of this Shulk gets elevated quite some ways over Chorus Men in terms of recognizability and hype. I mean, who seriously remembers RH because of Chorus Men?

Then there's also the fact that by far over half of RH's sales are from Japan, Vgchartz (yes, I know it's irreliable, but it's the best we have) lists the Wii version's sales as being 90% from Japan and the DS version being 63% from Japan, Chorus Men are to the west what Little Mac is to the east, they're pretty damn unknown around these parts, perhaps even more so than Little Mac is in Japan. I'm absolutely sure they'd want a more globally centered reveal to lead up to the game's release, and Xenoblade fits that better.
 
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