The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

[Spinosaurus]

The thing is that people remember the gameplay more so than anything else. Xenoblade is much more character centric, and because of this Shulk gets elevated quite some ways over Chorus Men in terms of recognizability and hype. I mean, who seriously remembers RH because of Chorus Men?

Then there's also the fact that by far over half of RH's sales are from Japan, Vgchartz (yes, I know it's irreliable, but it's the best we have) lists the Wii version's sales as being 90% from Japan and the DS version being 63% from Japan, Chorus Men are to the west what Little Mac is to the east, they're pretty damn unknown around these parts, perhaps even more so than Little Mac is in Japan. I'm absolutely sure they'd want a more globally centered reveal to lead up to the game's release, and Xenoblade fits that better.

But who's to say they won't recognize the Chorus Kids though? Most everyone who played Rhythm Heaven would know who they are at least, since they're in both DS and Fever. There's also their appearance in Game&Wario's intro and credits.

And if we're going with VGChartz then the game sold more than Xenoblade in each region. >_>

 

[Young Marth]

The thing is that people remember the gameplay more so than anything else. Xenoblade is much more character centric, and because of this Shulk gets elevated quite some ways over Chorus Men in terms of recognizability and hype. I mean, who seriously remembers RH because of Chorus Men?

Then there's also the fact that by far over half of RH's sales are from Japan, Vgchartz (yes, I know it's irreliable, but it's the best we have) lists the Wii version's sales as being 90% from Japan and the DS version being 63% from Japan, Chorus Men are to the west what Little Mac is to the east, they're pretty damn unknown around these parts, perhaps even more so than Little Mac is in Japan. I'm absolutely sure they'd want a more globally centered reveal to lead up to the game's release, and Xenoblade fits that better.

But Sakurai had to know Little Mac wasn't that popular in japan.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

But who's to say they won't recognize the Chorus Kids though? Most everyone who played Rhythm Heaven would know who they are at least, since they're in both DS and Fever. There's also their appearance in Game&Wario's intro and credits.

And if we're going with VGChartz then the game sold more than Xenoblade in each region. >_>

What I'm getting at is the hype factor. The last newcomer, that being the August Direct's newcomer, is the guy who's going to finish up the newcomer reveals and lead us into the game. Who's going to cause the most hype here universally, Shulk or Chorus Men?

I honestly don't even consider it a question, Shulk has been hyped up for this game by fans, Chorus Men hasn't. Shulk is loved as a character, Chorus Men aren't, at least not until the obligatory Smash popularity every character gets.

 

[Luigi#1]

I will just say:
Do you remember how many didn't even know the Chorus Kids before this leak?
Like, 99/100's of the people supporting him didn't till after this leak.

 

[JaidynReiman]

If the only Newcomer reveal we get before release is a Gematsu newcomer, its going to be Shulk hands down.

 

[Young Marth]

If the only Newcomer reveal we get before release is a Gematsu newcomer, its going to be Shulk hands down.

eh it's debatable..

 

[Deleted member]

As much as I want to see Shulk, I would rather see Chrom or Chorus Men first just to see what they do with them.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I will just say:
Do you remember how many didn't even know the Chorus Kids before this leak?
Like, 99/100's of the people supporting him didn't till after this leak.

This is a very ignorant and dismissive assumption.

Are you saying Rhythm Heaven fans didn't exist before the leak? Absurd.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As much as I want to see Shulk, I would rather see Chrom or Chorus Men first just to see what they do with them.

I'm actually more interested in the heated Roy vs Chrom debates that are likely to ensue should Chrom be revealed at August.

Regardless, we don't know who will be revealed at August, though unlike the others, there is no in-game evidence hinting towards Shulk at all.

 

[Staarih]

I want to see Chorus Men revealed before Shulk and Chrom - the latter two I know will turn out great, and surely the Chorus Men will too, but they interest me the most; as in how in the world will they work haha. And it would also solidify the Sal leak once and for all I guess - Shulk or Chrom would probably be "easy guesses" for some still.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I have a compromise-how about all three of them at once in a special Smash Direct?

 

[Spinosaurus]

I have a compromise-how about all three of them at once in a special Smash Direct?

That's what I'm thinking. It's a good way to end it with a bang, and with how Sakurai said that every newcomer will get a trailer it's a possibility.

Still possible that a newcomer trailer will be uploaded AFTER the release or available as an unlockable or something. (Though with what he said about SSE, I doubt it.)

 

[Luigi#1]

This is a very ignorant and dismissive assumption.

Are you saying Rhythm Heaven fans didn't exist before the leak? Absurd.

Are you saying those fans wanted Chorus Men, of all people? The few that did request a rhythm heaven character asked for Karate Joe or someone else. Virtually no one wanted him.
And yeah, alot still did not even know who they are. Like, more then a 1/3 on the boards.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Are you saying those fans wanted Chorus Men, of all people?
And yeah, alot still did not even know who they are. Like, more then a 1/3 on the boards.

And what're you basing that off? And what does it even mean? Is Little Mac suddenly obscure because the majority in a select group of fans in a japanese board didn't know him?
I personally didn't see too many "who are these guys?", to begin with, especially in NeoGAF where most knew who they are in the Smash thread.

I'm just gonna quote myself here because I REALLY don't like that mindset.

That's quite the assumption.

Support for a Rhythm Heaven representation has existed before the leak. For a series with no real playable or main character, there really hasn't been many "viable" choices. When a leak that has any sort of credibility comes along and lists a specific character from a series, then it's understandable the character will start getting more recognition.

Certainly, you're not wrong in thinking that the support right now is because of the leak. But the keyword here is "support", as personally, I've been a fan of them ever since I started playing Rhythm Heaven, I just didn't initially think they'd be a candidate for Smash. (And it's understandable, being among all the many other Rhythm Heaven characters and especially one that doesn't fight in any way unlike Karate Joe.)
However, their fanbase is pretty much mostly Rhythm Heaven fans, who are, for the most part, OK with any rep. Saying that the only reason we like these guys is because of the leak rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Phaazoid]

Yes 5 million is 1/4 of 20 million. Except FE hasn't sold 5 million (I can't find any official source on the number, but it doesn't appear on the list of video game franchises with over 5 million copies sold) , and Pokemon Red/Blue sold 23.64 million.

Number of characters in a franchise is a moot point. We're talking specifically about star power. And the starter pokemon from the most well known and successful Pokemon game Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't just "random" pokemon, they're Pokemon icons, EVERYONE knows who they are.
Would Tombi have more star power than Squirtle because he appeared in a couple games as the one and only main character? Of course not, because hardly anyone knows what Tombi is.

The fact that they aren't as popular or Iconic as other Pokemon is irrelevant. Toad is not as popular or relevant as Mario, but he's still an A-list Nintendo character, and has more star power than basically every non-Mario series' character on the game.

Your original point was that Squirtle and Ivysaur didn't have the star power to pull off their own individual slots (which is wrong within itself as they were considered 3 separate characters by the man himself in Brawl but I digress), they're more popular and well known than those other characters. It's concrete fact. So yes, that IS what this is about, star power. Squirtle and Ivysaur have it in spades.

I don't see where the evidence is that we won't get more than 2 more. We had 6 in Brawl, with 2 more planned. That's 8, why is seven so hard to comprehend now?

And by the logic that they're cut because they weren't shown with Charizard, I present you Sheik and ZSS.
And by the logic that they're cut because they weren't shown with the transformation characters, I present you Charizard.

I think we've diverged into two separate arguments that are hindering each other

things that I agree that you are saying: Squirtle and Ivysaur are well known, moreso than probably any fire emblem character.

But here's where I think our opinions differ. First of all, number of characters in a franchise is most definitely not a moot point, and I think you're over-estimating how many characters are going to hail from a single series. I think this is where our largest difference in opinions comes from.

Yes, Brawl had 6 pokemon. I don't think Smash 4 will have more than 6. I don't think any franchise in smash 4 will have more than 6. Therefore, when we have so many Pokemon with decent star power (pichu just as much as squirtle and ivysaur, seeing as pichu was in 1 smash game, like both of them, and has had a majro appearance in at least 1 movie). On top of that, we have Zoroark, the face of Geb 5 as Lucario was the face of Gen 4. We have Deoxys, a humanoid legendary from gen 3 with a lot of popularity. We have Sceptile, The grass starter from gen 3 that recently got a mega, is one of the starters of the newest pokemon game, and would round out the starter types already on the roster. We have Mewtwo, who was playable in melee, has had a recent surge in popularity, been the front of many plots in the series, and got two mega evolutions. and we have jigglypuff, who used to be a major face in the tv show, but has been in the games since mash 64.

Maybe Squirtle/Ivysaur beat out Pichu here, in terms of getting a spot. And yes, I know, many of those were already deconfimed. it was for arguments sake. But I'd argue that every other pokemon on that list would probably get into smash before the squirtle ivy combo. Ivysaur and Squirtle can't take advantage of the megas their lines of evolution got, and weren't revealed with charizard.

That's another thing. You're skewing the logic of character reveals.

Samus and Zelda were both revealed very early, way before the character transform mechanics were given away. Once those character transform mechanics were shown off, Shiek, ZSS, and Charizard were all shown, because there was nothing left to hide.


When it comes down to it, neither of us have hard proof to back up our arguments, we're just both relying on our own separate interpretations of the same data. I understand where you're coming from a little better now, but I still don't think your reasoning is correct. I, personally, would love to see ivysaur and squirtle return. I would also like to see Mewtwo back in the game, and I also don't want to see jigglypuff cut. I also don't think Pokemon deserves more than 6 reps. It's a tough situation, one that I personally is best remedied by including mewtwo and jigglypuff over squirtle and ivysaur. But I guess we'll find out in the next few months. While I (and from what I've seen, a lot of the boards) think that my hypothesis of squirtle and ivysaur being cut is most likely, I'll agree that it still is only a hypothesis, as none of us are actually Sakurai.

 

[Luigi#1]

And what're you basing that off? And what does it even mean? Is Little Mac suddenly obscure because the majority in a select group of fans in a japanese board didn't know him?
I personally didn't see too many "who are these guys?", to begin with.

I'm just gonna quote myself here because I REALLY don't like that mindset.

Chorus Men, of all people?

Not alot of people wanted a RH character. And those that did wanted Karate Joe.
Also, let's see when the Chorus Men support thread was made.
April 17th. Post Sal's 2nd leak.
Plus I did see several people who didn't know him at all.

 

[Spinosaurus]

No idea what that one quote even means.

I've seen people who don't know who Mega Man is. What you're trying to prove is pointless.

 

[Luigi#1]

No idea what that one quote even means.

I've seen people who don't know who Mega Man is. What you're trying to prove is pointless.

Some not alot. I saw alot not knowing him.
What I am saying is people who are saying Chorus Men are starters due to popularity and request are mistaken.
Even you said people mostly wanted Karate Joe. Karate Joe is not Chorus Men.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Some not alot. I saw alot not knowing him.
What I am saying is people who are saying Chorus Men are starters due to popularity and request are mistaken.
Even you said people mostly wanted Karate Joe. Karate Joe is not Chorus Men.

You're not getting what I'm saying here, and missing the point of my quote. The biggest thing going in their favor is that Rhythm Heaven is pretty a big new Nintendo IP, and that Chorus Kids themselves aren't as obscure as some say they are.

I mean this is the same board that didn't know who Lucario (in the Brawl days), Greninja and Wii Fit Trainer are. =/ And yet here they are, starters. We're a VERY specific group of people, so an internet board not recognizing a character has zero meaning.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That's what I'm thinking. It's a good way to end it with a bang, and with how Sakurai said that every newcomer will get a trailer it's a possibility.

It makes a lot of sense, I agree. Helps round things off and lets us all come to terms with the leak, one way or another. Many may cry. Many tables may be flipped. Many may pump their fists. Many may scratch their head. Many may laugh.

Regardless of what happens, if what I proposed happened, this whole debacle should be over. Unless somehow additional newcomers ends up being leaked.

 

[Luigi#1]

You're not getting what I'm saying here, and missing the point of my quote. The biggest thing going in their favor is that Rhythm Heaven is pretty a big new Nintendo IP, and that Chorus Kids themselves aren't as obscure as some say they are.

I mean this is the same board that didn't know who Lucario (in the Brawl days), Greninja and Wii Fit Trainer are. =/ And yet here they are, starters. We're a VERY specific group of people, so an internet board not recognizing a character has zero meaning.

What I was saying is popularity doesn't matter. Someone once said Sonic should have as many reps as Mario due to his popularity. Ice Climbers weren't popular, they are starters. Luigi is a Mario character, so he's marketed alot and in spinoffs. He's popular. Jigglypuff's kinda popular. Popularity doesn't matter.

 

[Phaazoid]

What I was saying is popularity doesn't matter. Someone once said Sonic should have as many reps as Mario due to his popularity. Ice Climbers weren't popular, they are starters. Luigi is a Mario character, so he's marketed alot and in spinoffs. He's popular. Jigglypuff's kinda popular. Popularity doesn't matter.

Are you trying to argue that popularity doesn't matter for roster inclusion, or for if a character is a starter or unlockable?

Because you would be wrong either way

 

[HugoBoss]

What does Rhythm Heaven's relevancy have anything to do with the Sal leak?
YES, there always was Chorus Men supporters among other Rhythm Heaven supporters, but the support was NOT as big as it is now until AFTER the leak. This does not specifically include @Spinosarus. Clearly.
Jeez.

 

[Luigi#1]

Are you trying to argue that popularity doesn't matter for roster inclusion, or for if a character is a starter or unlockable?

Because you would be wrong either way

Read the examples.
And option B.

What does Rhythm Heaven's (ir)relevancy have anything to do with the Sal leak?
YES, there always was Chorus Men supporters among other Rhythm Heaven supporters, but the support was NOT as big as it is now until AFTER the leak.
Jeez.

This.

 

[Deleted member]

Not alot of people wanted a RH character. And those that did wanted Karate Joe.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Phaazoid]

Read the examples.
And option B.

Sorry, was too lazy to read the whole argument. But

They use starting characters to help market the game

They market the game with the inclusion of popular characters

ergo popular characters are more likely to be starters

the only exception to this rule is third party characters. And we've only had this happen once. We don't know their status in smash 4 yet.

 

[Luigi#1]

Sorry, was too lazy to read the whole argument. But

They use starting characters to help market the game

They market the game with the inclusion of popular characters

ergo popular characters are more likely to be starters

the only exception to this rule is third party characters. And we've only had this happen once. We don't know their status in smash 4 yet.

But some popular chracters can still be unlockables. Of course they wouldn't miss out on putting Mario's face on the cover to increase sales, but they don't have to have all the popular characters as starters, or unknown characters as starters. I'm sure most non smashers have no idea who Ike is, but he was starter.

Speak for yourself.

I saw several people for Karate Joe. And several complaining that Sal didn't say Karate Joe. I don't care bout him at all really.

 

[Phaazoid]

But some popular chracters can still be unlockables. Of course they wouldn't miss out on putting Mario's face on the cover to increase sales, but they don't have to have all the popular characters as starters, or unknown characters as starters. I'm sure most non smashers have no idea who Ike is, but he was starter.

Some characters aren't effected, sure. I didn't say it covered every character. But you seemed to be claiming that there was no correlation between popularity and starter at all. Popularity does undeniably effect a lot of character's status.

 

[dezeray112]

I also hope there is more, though I have no idea how likely it is.

Same here. I do hope there is more as well.

 

[Deleted member]

I saw several people for Karate Joe. And several complaining that Sal didn't say Karate Joe. I don't care bout him at all really.

Apparently Marshal, "Rhythm Girl", and Wrestler don't exist.

 

[Phaazoid]

Apparently Marshal, "Rhythm Girl", and Wrestler don't exist.

Sal leak conformed

that play on words is actually kinda clever

 

[simpleglitch]

Hi,

Just created an account to say they took down the petilil 'falco leak' thread on gamefaq (likely due to off topic arguing). So we might not hear anything more from him until after this week is over (with the big IF the leak is actually true).

 

[Louie G.]

@ Luigi#1
Chorus Kids will be awesome.
Sure most supporters never considered them a possibility up until the Leak, but that opened many peoples' eyes to how much potential they have and how fun and wacky they can be.

It doesn't matter whether they had a large fanbase until the Leak.
My only response to that is Wii Fit Trainer.

And @ Spinosaurus is right, many people considered a Rhythm Heaven character a possibility, and characters like Karate Joe, Wrestler, and Marshal were common suggestions. Again, Chorus Kids weren't really considered possible, but they make a lot of sense in hindsight. Music based trio that is often used to advertise the series.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I'm actually more interested in the heated Roy vs Chrom debates that are likely to ensue should Chrom be revealed at August.

Regardless, we don't know who will be revealed at August, though unlike the others, there is no in-game evidence hinting towards Shulk at all.

Roy: hasn't had a game since the early GBA and only got to cameo recently thanks to Chrom. Elibe's story is finished. Only real fans are smash players.
Chrom: star of the game that saved the franchise, recent, popular, more recognizable nowadays, carries the iconic sword of the series, fans worldwide.
Lucina: recent, female fighter, also main character, carries the iconic sword of the series, most popular female character

 

[Ryan.]

Hi,

Just created an account to say they took down the petilil 'falco leak' thread on gamefaq (likely due to off topic arguing). So we might not hear anything more from him until after this week is over (with the big IF the leak is actually true).

Thanks for letting us know, and welcome to Smashboards! You should stick around and join in on the discussion. :D

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I didn't even realize GameFAQs deleted threads.

 

[simpleglitch]

I didn't even realize GameFAQs deleted threads.

Truth be told, neither did I.

Thanks for letting us know, and welcome to Smashboards! You should stick around and join in on the discussion. :D

Thanks, I definitely will I actually lurk on here a lot (mainly looking for mewtwo news and other leaks or announcements XD) but only now made an account.

 

[Ryan.]

Haha I lurked on here for a bit before joining as well, but just couldn't help not making an account to join in.

I wonder if Sal will react to the Falco "leak" at all.

 

[Pyra]

Didn't know anything about the Chorus Kids before this leak, so I played RH for a little bit and man, I kinda would like to see them in the game at least in some form.

 

[simpleglitch]

Haha I lurked on here for a bit before joining as well, but just couldn't help not making an account to join in.

I wonder if Sal will react to the Falco "leak" at all.

I think it would be interesting if he did. For some reason I don't think he will, or at least not until the leak gains credibility (by falco being announced this week). Personally, I would love for the leak to be real (aside from the Lucas bit, I didn't play him often but he was a fun character), but I'm not really holding my breath on this one, only given the source. As others have said, the only thing that gives me hope is that he wasn't very pushy with the leak, and even seemed to write in a way that acknowledged he knew he didn't have much provable credibility.

If it is real, you can bet my jaw will hit the floor (and then I will jump for joy that Mewtwo might finally strike back )