The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[Kaffei]

Little do you all know, SAKURAI IS ACTUALLY A GANON MAIN.

Makes Koskinator look like a wimp.


Man he sandbagged the **** out of that poor local tournament winner. I think he messed up Ganon's fair on purpose now just so he could sandbag people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTC35GvjQbA

 

[GimR]

the only problem I have with this list is that Ness isn't low tier anymore but Lucas is lol. ???

 

[DarkLouis331]

'Tis a sad week for the Legend of Zelda series. =( 'Cept for Toon Link.

And 'tis a shame Wolf didn't move up, but at least he didn't move down. Snake, my other main remaining 2nd is a given.

 

[Dark.Pch]

One thing I noticed. And also might have lead to Peach placement once again. The Members of the BBR that play Peach are all WC. You have no EC players in there. But regions have different styles and Peach experience is different. You boys get info and etc from one region. But don't get it from the other. You have three peacxh players and they are all WC. Thoese boys dont play around here to tell you whats up.

But I think I was the only open that would have qualififed, but of course I already know the reason why I cant be in there according to you boys and the rest. Sop I kinda ****ed up myself. Ether way this thing is not good at all. And I am pretty sure I hit you boys with more Peach info anf frames then the others.

My opinion though oit wont happen, for this character amd fot a player that does not counterpick and has done justice in the past, I would be a good attwention to this thing to fix this mess. Also having insite on a competitive player from the EC that knows what it takes and the pressure of doing well with going solo mid tier.

I wait for you boys to laugh now and make some silly post to this. But I am just keeping it real and throwing it out there. You need more people like that, so things won't be one sides like I have been hearing with pit and his crazy boost on this list. As for Zelda? I told you boys many times, get that man Darkmusician. He knows alot with Zelda. he can help share insites with her. Alldo since he is a beast with a horrible character as you boys say she is, he knows what it takes and how to think to do well with just a limited character. thats what I called a smart player. Cause it is not easy to do something like that at all. And not many can do it to begin with. And not just with Zelda. But any character that gets ****ed over hard.

 

[Albert.]

One thing I noticed. And also might have lead to Peach placement once again. The Members of the BBR that play Peach are all WC. You have no EC players in there. But regions have different styles and Peach experience is different. You boys get info and etc from one region. But don't get it from the other. You have three peacxh players and they are all WC. Thoese boys dont play around here to tell you whats up.

But I think I was the only open that would have qualififed, but of course I already know the reason why I cant be in there according to you boys and the rest. Sop I kinda ****ed up myself. Ether way this thing is not good at all. And I am pretty sure I hit you boys with more Peach info anf frames then the others.

My opinion though oit wont happen, for this character amd fot a player that does not counterpick and has done justice in the past, I would be a good attwention to this thing to fix this mess. Also having insite on a competitive player from the EC that knows what it takes and the pressure of doing well with going solo mid tier.

I wait for you boys to laugh now and make some silly post to this. But I am just keeping it real and throwing it out there. You need more people like that, so things won't be one sides like I have been hearing with pit and his crazy boost on this list. As for Zelda? I told you boys many times, get that man Darkmusician. He knows alot with Zelda. he can help share insites with her. Alldo since he is a beast with a horrible character as you boys say she is, he knows what it takes and how to think to do well with just a limited character. thats what I called a smart player. Cause it is not easy to do something like that at all. And not many can do it to begin with. And not just with Zelda. But any character that gets ****ed over hard.

How did anybody really get ****ed over?

It's just a tier list. Dark Peach you always act as if the tier list matters, as if it's a life-and-death thing regarding characters.

The SBR Tier list is the perception of the characters according to the SBR.

It's just perception. Right now the common view on Peach is that she's mid tier. Everybody currently views Zelda as a ****ty character. (although that's one's likely to stick)

The game mechanics don't change. The stats, the mobility, the gimping abilities, survivability, recoveries, ETC of the characters don't actually change, but the metagame does. If you believe that Peach being so "low" is a misconception, or an injustice, or wrong or whatever, then you AND other Peach mains have to start wrecking ****, to prove your opinions on Peache's worth.

You had like a million posts in the last tier list thread

Please don't dwell on the inconsequential **** in this thread, It'll only aggravate you needlessly.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I was expectionmg a post like that. but did not think it be from you. And I clearly see you really did not understand my post at all. And are on some other ****. Heh heh-heh. The smash community is sure fun to read somethings I must say. really when people post to me.

Also, Peach players have done work before the last 2 tier list to show she belongs where I said she should be from the start of it all. and 2 times she has not moved at all. So I am not trying to hear this "step it up Peach mains " stuff. Cause people ignore it and pay attention to what they want too. And this tier list is proof of it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Albert, I will say that while it's governed by perception, it's also information intended to be useful to players for the overall development of the community. For that reason, it should be as accurate as humanly possible and inaccuracies should be noted and corrected. Since this game has thousands of dollars on the line in tournaments, I'd say the tier list is serious business and the community taking it seriously is a good thing.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How did anybody really get ****ed over?

It's just a tier list. Dark Peach you always act as if the tier list matters, as if it's a life-and-death thing regarding characters.

In a way, it actually is for characters. Everyone had the high end of the tier list is going to get a lot of attention because people know they are 'good'. Because of this attention, those characters will be getting a lot of representation. Even if Falco does not have many high tournament results among many people, he is still widely used as a secondary or main by mid/low skill levels. Virtually anyone that is not at the high tier does not get nearly as much credit and are overlooked.

So in a way, the tier list really factors how much representation a character will get.

Although, I would say there are more link users at the mid/low skill levels than any other character by themself. The fan base for the zelda series is huge.

 

[Sharky]

dark peach for someone who was only requested to come in here, you're putting in an awful lot of effort. not hating, though lol.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Albert, I will say that while it's governed by perception, it's also information intended to be useful to players for the overall development of the community. For that reason, it should be as accurate as humanly possible and inaccuracies should be noted and corrected. Since this game has thousands of dollars on the line in tournaments, I'd say the tier list is serious business and the community taking it seriously is a good thing.

In a way, it actually is for characters. Everyone had the high end of the tier list is going to get a lot of attention because people know they are 'good'. Because of this attention, those characters will be getting a lot of representation. Even if Falco does not have many high tournament results among many people, he is still widely used as a secondary or main by mid/low skill levels. Virtually anyone that is not at the high tier does not get nearly as much credit and are overlooked.

So in a way, the tier list really factors how much representation a character will get.

Although, I would say there are more link users at the mid/low skill levels than any other character by themself.

Bingo. If people are gonna work about advancing the community, rules and meta game, it is important to......idk......get things done corretly? Not assume crap and hype things up. Like actually do some work. if you are gonna spend so much time working on a tier list, at least get it correct or ALMOST correct. There might as well never be a perfect tier list. But least make one that is close to being accuate and not made of BS. Pit, Peach and Zelda is the worst upset I seen. And people have actually but in work with Peach for the past 2 tier list and she still does not move. Has done more work than pit and look at how he rises. So what be the point of "recking **** with Peach" when she goes nowhere reguardless if people do good. This goes for alot of other characters as well.

And Zelda? She aint that good but this is insane.

For once I will say that time time, it is no way in hell the players faults for this list. if BBR are in charge of a community rules with the game and Etc, you cant get lazy and being bias hype into it. You guys work on a project. You are suppose to deliver the truth, not crap. There is alot of characters in this game, and alot to know about. Every character matters when you make a tier list involing them. Not get lazy and spit out crap cause you think they are not tourny vaible, not important to you or just suck. This is not legit work. Like real talk, come on with this man. For all thjat matter, people should not even bother making a list. Like de que diablo.

Edit- Sharky, well I have to admit that doing this kind of thing is fun for me. and gives me something to do. Also I am aprart of this community, and I am a competitive player. So as a member of all this, i feel it is right to atleast correct some mistakes in it and try to make it better. if I fail oh well. i did my job as a member and a Peach player. I seriously dont like how this community is. And honestly. the tier list for Peach is kinda insulting for the results Peach players has been bringing in for the past 2 list and she still does not move. peop;le said bring results to prove that shie is better than she was, whch I say is B tier. And we have for 2 tier list, and look at what happen to her yet again. All the work we did went to waste to prove a point. And to prove it in a way people wanted us too. Thats is insulting and being a hypcrocrite. Only paying attention to what they want too and what matters to them. And that is making me sick with this darn community. No wonder things never get done right.

 

[Shaya]

DarkMusician was added to the BBR I believe.

Pits rise was an EC-centric affair, it would seem.
Smash your regions players

 

[Albert.]

I was expectionmg a post like that. but did not think it be from you. And I clearly see you really did not understand my post at all. And are on some other ****. Heh heh-heh. The smash community is sure fun to read somethings I must say. really when people post to me.

Also, Peach players have done work before the last 2 tier list to show she belongs where I said she should be from the start of it all. and 2 times she has not moved at all. So I am not trying to hear this "step it up Peach mains " stuff. Cause people ignore it and pay attention to what they want too. And this tier list is proof of it.

Alright Dark Peach, if you wanna be like that then fine.

Your character places like a mid tier character.

I meant you no ill will though- Seriously WHY BOTHER any more? There's no pride in incessant bickering and useless arguing.

 

[Jupz]

What do you guys think about Lucarios tier placement? Do you think his move was justified?

 

[Shaya]

Oh, and I and MANY OTHER BBR MEMBERS seriously believe Zelda is bottom tier. Really.
Her drop was not a result of Oh whatever status quo, she was talked about, scrutinised and evaluated and she DROPPED because of this.

Pit may have risen 4 spots, but the opinions of him over all were very contrasting, and the over all votes placed all 4 of thsoe characters pretty close together, in my honest opinion.
You either had people super supporting pit, or those who felt he was around the same. Resulting in an averaged out rise. He was close to the others in his tier though (if you want to compare those 4 to G&W)

 

[hough123]

What do you guys think about Lucarios tier placement? Do you think his move was justified?

For a character that's stood at #10 in rankings for the past 3-4 months in a row, yes. Lucario is not 14, but he is not top 9. (lol Pikachu) THis is the perfect place for him.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Alright Dark Peach, if you wanna be like that then fine.

Your character places like a mid tier character.

I meant you no ill will though- Seriously WHY BOTHER any more? There's no pride in incessant bickering and useless arguing.

I explained in my other post why I do this. And I also would like to know just what these people are doing with Peach.

 

[Nanaki]

I'd like to hear opinions on who people believe Zelda should be above and why. All I see are people saying 'she doesn't seem that bad to me' without any real reasoning to back it up (besides a couple of examples), or suggestions as to who is actually worse than her.

 

[Justblaze647]

I'd like to hear opinions on who people believe Zelda should be above

Jiggz

and why.

Jiggz sux

 

[da K.I.D.]

Jiggz sux

not as bad as zelda...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Zelda bandwagon is bandwagon. lol

 

[Frown]

Zelda just feels... STIFF. Jiggz doesn't.

I'd say they're about equally as bad at killing.

Jigglypuff recovers a lot more easily.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Zelda bandwagon is bandwagon. lol

excuse me but ive been saying that zelda is bottom 5 in the game since the 3rd tier list came out, I didnt jump on this bandwagon, I BUILT it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Jiggs is still underrated, I said this before and I'll say this again. If nothing else, Jiggs can plank like a King (queen?). She is better then Zelda.


Ultimately, Zelda is not forced to approach as often as people believe, a lot of projectiles are invalidated in terms of forcing approaches by consistent powershielding (which the community needs to get better at), and her defensive game is very powerful. So does have ways to actually threaten people in shield too (due to her smash lasting forever and shield-poking) and the first few frames of her grab being almost indistinguishable from her dash attack.


That said, what it matters in is MUs, and Zelda has at least two surprisingly good high tier MUs, which is certainly far more then anyone around her can say. Namely, DDD and ICs. ICs in fact, is almost an even MU.


But... for all the influence she has on the current metagame, she might as well be bottom 5, nobody actually uses her, so in spite of the fact that she's better, she gets 0 results.

 

[Z'zgashi]

What exactly happened to mgw to justify his fall? He's a solid character that in certain match-ups, just plain ***** (mqw vs. rob FTW) Sure he has his problemsbut below lucario? I dont think so

 

[da K.I.D.]

which brings in the always fun question.

are they bad because they dont get tourney rep, or do they not get tourney rep because they are bad.

classic chicken or the egg scenario.

 

[adumbrodeus]

which brings in the always fun question.

are they bad because they dont get tourney rep, or do they not get tourney rep because they are bad.

classic chicken or the egg scenario.

Which is why we have theorycraft!

 

[da K.I.D.]

ewwwww.

10gross

 

[adumbrodeus]

ewwwww.

10gross

Lol, just means that you need to learn to theorycraft better.


Ehhh, we'll see, I've got some ideas to improve the state of theorycrafting, hopefully with more efficient modeling, it won't be looked down on so much and it will get more accurate as a whole.

 

[Z'zgashi]

What exactly happened to mgw to justify his fall? He's a solid character that in certain match-ups, just plain ***** (mqw vs. rob FTW) Sure he has his problemsbut below lucario? I dont think so

This ?

 

[solecalibur]

Jiggs is still underrated, I said this before and I'll say this again. If nothing else, Jiggs can plank like a King (queen?). She is better then Zelda.

Planking.... lol

 

[SpaghettiWeegee]

I see that the cast of The Legend of Zelda isn't getting ANY love in this list.

SAAAKUUURAAAAIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Planking.... lol

I don't see a planking ban on the BBR ruleset...

 

[Nanaki]

lol @ Carl pic.

Is there actually any real evidence of the DDD vs. Zelda MU being good for Zelda, or is it just 'easy to hit LK's and Din's is hard to avoid for the fatty'? It seems like once she's offstage, she's toast against a good gimper like D3.

 

[<π]

she is...

D3's air game is way better. but zelda is hard to tech chace and he ground game is a little better. D3 lives till forever in this match up... or at least he should zelda still dies at low as hell zelda percents.

 

[adumbrodeus]

"Relatively", I love that word, Zelda doesn't beat him, but she sure does a lot better then pretty much anyone in low tier.

 

[Sharky]

I'm not sure if you've seen a yoshi out-camp a d3, then. XD

 

[Nanaki]

Yeah, DDD owns low tiers pretty hard. I can't imagine Zelda's got it any better than Lucas though. Or Yoshi, or even Jiggs. If she does have it better, it can't be by much.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'll probably post a complete argument that Zelda is significantly underrated within the next few days (not that she deserves an out from low tiers, not gonna happen), but she does have interesting MUs, and DDD doesn't take advantage of her weaknesses that well, while Zelda takes advantage of his attributes quite well.

 

[<π]

that isn't true though. I think people just don't know that match up. even D3 out ranges her and can force an approach out of her.

 

[adumbrodeus]

that isn't true though. I think people just don't know that match up. even D3 out ranges her and can force an approach out of her.

... How?


Yes, DDD does outrange her, but ftilt controls space, it can be perfect shielded on reaction. Great move, but it's a zoning move, doesn't force an approach.