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The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

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Dark.Pch

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Heh heh-heh. people really don't know me at all. Anyway on topic, this list is crap And I like to hear a good reason for Peach Zelda and Pit. Though I already got this figure out, I like to see what defense you people have for this mess.
 

Kaffei

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Who said I was angry. You boys really need to stop assuming how I am. I can flame someone and not be pissed.
Then how about upset at the fact that Peach is not where you believe she should be at on the new tier list.
I have nothing against you DP, so just keep reppin Peach and forget this list
 

Justblaze647

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Just to start a stir.

Sonic should go up 1 spot. (PT sucks I said it).
Mario should be above Sheik.

Yeah I said it.
Bolded and underlined the false statements. ;)

It isn't dumb, Metaknight is simply that much better than everyone else. Thats how it should have been since the beginning.
This is too true

Heh heh-heh. people really don't know me at all. Anyway on topic, this list is crap And I like to hear a good reason for Peach Zelda and Pit. Though I already got this figure out, I like to see what defense you people have for this mess.
We are still waiting for SBR's official explanation for Pit.

Also, I think Peach should be at least above Kirby on this list...
 

TheReflexWonder

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I'm really confused about Pit, myself. I'm not sure how many Pit players are causing a large enough splash to justify +4 on the list.

Hell, I wasn't aware that people played Pit anymore.
 

HeroMystic

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I think Mario is great in low or mid level play, he's amazing for letting you get the feel of the game, (which is pretty much what Mario does ;)) but the fact that he's so balanced hurts him in the end. The fact that Mario doesn't really have very many things that set him apart makes him a low-tier character. Mario has good smashes, okay recovery, okay attacks, an okay/bad projectile, etc. but nothing to make him exceptional.

By himself Mario's not a bad character, but he just doesn't have the edge to allow him to stand out against others.
He has a few things that sets him apart from others, but otherwise you're pretty much correct. I always said if there was just one thing buffed about Mario (KO Power, recovery, even movement speed), he'd be an exceptional character.

I personally believe he's mid-tier material, but I also can't really give a **** about his placement.
 

bigman40

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yoshi's biggest problem, imo, is his OOS options.
he can't jump out of sheild, the only thing he CAN do out of it is grab.
this severely limits his punishing options, the only thing you can really do is roll away...
Not his biggest problems. His real problems are mainly being juggled from recovering (his biggest problem many yoshi's have right now), and weak ability to reliably setup kills.
 

Spelt

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i was gonna bring up killing but decided to leave it out. xD
didn't know about the juggling problem though.
 

Dark.Pch

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Then how about upset at the fact that Peach is not where you believe she should be at on the new tier list.
I have nothing against you DP, so just keep reppin Peach and forget this list
When I saw this list for the first time, yea I was a lil ticked, after than I just did not give a darn anymore. As I said, people pay attention to what they want to, but not what they have too. so this is a lose cause. Not just for Peach but other characters that got screwed over. This community is really something else.

I'm really confused about Pit, myself. I'm not sure how many Pit players are causing a large enough splash to justify +4 on the list.

Hell, I wasn't aware that people played Pit anymore.
Pit really not do anything to get 4 spots like that. You know what I found funny? How when I was defending peach and dishing out the justice with this character to this community, people always went on about "bring results, thats what matters, show that Peach is as good as you say". And I did, as well as the others. Thats all I heard. Yet with Pit, his results did not show much and look at where he is. And Peach still does not move? From this, the BBR is filled with a bunch of hypcro bias people.

Like real talk here, you cant be serious with that. So that rule applied for Peach when I was hitting this place with rundown on Peach but it does not matter with Pit? This community seriously needs a new staff. Cause I am sorry to say this but you guys dont know **** (the ones that are on this onsense that is, not everyone)
 

YagamiLight

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Not his biggest problems. His real problems are mainly being juggled from recovering (his biggest problem many yoshi's have right now), and weak ability to reliably setup kills.
Isn't it more of "his kill moves are bad" than "he can't set up into them" being the issue here?

Don't get me wrong, I like Yoshi and think he's a solid character but I seriously manage to live to 140%+ almost every stock against him.
 

bigman40

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i was gonna bring up killing but decided to leave it out. xD
didn't know about the juggling problem though.
Yeah, juggling has been a little more recent in our problems. Characters with good juggling skills make recovering and resetting the field hard. It's not apparent with mild jugglers.
 

bigman40

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Isn't it more of "his kill moves are bad" than "he can't set up into them" being the issue here?

Don't get me wrong, I like Yoshi and think he's a solid character but I seriously manage to live to 140%+ almost every stock against him.
You're Ike. Mediocre killing can't kill heavy characters well in the first place. What I'm saying is that for characters we can actually kill at lower, more reasonable percents, we can't reliably setup to kill them.

Edit: In short, you're right, but it's better to state a more detailed reason for it.
 

#HBC | J

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I gotta say Yoshi is a pretty good character. Although it annoys me to death when I get footstooled K.O.ed but eh the only characters I can really talk about and back up atm is either Lucas and Jiggs but according to this tier they suck. (not upset about Jiggs more on Lucas) Ah well this tier really means nothing to me. Cuz if people wanna follow this when they go againt me...they will be in for some punishment. I just started the tournament scene so ima help improve his rep cuz Low tier is not where he belongs at all :p

except MKs and Snakes....*shiver*
 

Spelt

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Yeah, juggling has been a little more recent in our problems. Characters with good juggling skills make recovering and resetting the field hard. It's not apparent with mild jugglers.
yeah i can see how that would be a problem.
no real good way around it except a well placed AD
 

Albert.

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I'm really confused about Pit, myself. I'm not sure how many Pit players are causing a large enough splash to justify +4 on the list.

Hell, I wasn't aware that people played Pit anymore.
Pit really not do anything to get 4 spots like that. You know what I found funny? How when I was defending peach and dishing out the justice with this character to this community, people always went on about "bring results, thats what matters, show that Peach is as good as you say". And I did, as well as the others. Thats all I heard. Yet with Pit, his results did not show much and look at where he is. And Peach still does not move? From this, the BBR is filled with a bunch of hypcro bias people.

Like real talk here, you cant be serious with that. So that rule applied for Peach when I was hitting this place with rundown on Peach but it does not matter with Pit? This community seriously needs a new staff. Cause I am sorry to say this but you guys dont know **** (the ones that are on this onsense that is, not everyone)


LOL you guys are out of the loop.

Vex Kasrani has been doing well as Pit

ANDD KoolAid has wrecked some **** in N.E. going Pit and is static doubles partners with Fatal (they got 7th at VC7)
 

bigman40

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yeah i can see how that would be a problem.
no real good way around it except a well placed AD
Yeah, which is why we're trying to find other methods right now to fix that a little. Other than that though, Yoshi's game a quite solid, and the aerial speed + CG options on most of the cast allows him to be quite frustrating to play against.


He's good enough in racking damage, he's good in camping (it's odd, but good), and having guaranteed options from grab releases allows him to not have to worry about setting up a kill and just worry about racking up enough damage. After that, one mistake that gets them grabbed and we can just use weaker moves that kill later in stocks than risk losing stage control. Add in that he's semi-heavy so he won't be dying to mediocre characters quickly.

Edit: Also to note, some of his recent setups are actually great in terms of frame advantage, but it's stupidly slow (I've checked it via frame data and gotten about 15+ frame advantage). His other setup that could've made things 3x easier is that his egglay cancels 1 frame after the actual hitbox (he won't eat you), and when this happens, we have about 1/2 a second to get a Fsmash in, but like I said, it's a 1 frame window and it's really stupid.
 

Spelt

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doesn't yoshi have a true combo Usmash out of GR on a few characters?


I've had a CPU yoshi do the egglay cancel into nair on me once... e_e
 

Dark.Pch

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LOL you guys are out of the loop.

Vex Kasrani has been doing well as Pit

ANDD KoolAid has wrecked some **** in N.E. going Pit and is static doubles partners with Fatal (they got 7th at VC7)
#1- teams dont matter for how good a character is

#2-Wrong, for that much of a rise based on his tourny results compared to Peach who has done better, no. Peach did better than Pit and he rises. Peach does not move at all once again.Sorry dude but that is a load of crap.
 

etecoon

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you know they're probably holding peach down just to spite you because you spend a ridiculous amount of time on this forum arguing over how underrated peach is
 

bigman40

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doesn't yoshi have a true combo Usmash out of GR on a few characters?
Usmash on the following characters:

MK
Diddy
Lucas
Wario
Squirtle

Fsmash on the following characters:

Lucas (uses DR to land it)
Wario
Squirtle (over edge)
Ganon (over edge)

Spikes on the following characters:

Sheik
Squirtle

Uair on Ness and Jiggz (3 frame window for jiggz though)

Edit: lol. CPUs are god tier in brawl.


 

Zankoku

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Yeah, I'm unsure of Pit's rise, too.

From what I can tell, he got lucky, because he was effectively supposed to drop down into D Tier, then some votes got put in last minute to keep him in C Tier. At that point all that could be done was vote him against the other four characters in his section of the list.
 

Col. Stauffenberg

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People barely voted for Pit to be in the same tier as TL/ZSS/Kirby/ROB, and then the same people voted for him to be above all of them?

How's that work?
 

Spelt

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Usmash on the following characters:

MK
Diddy
Lucas
Wario
Squirtle

Fsmash on the following characters:

Lucas (uses DR to land it)
Wario
Squirtle (over edge)
Ganon (over edge)

Spikes on the following characters:

Sheik
Squirtle

Uair on Ness and Jiggz (3 frame window for jiggz though)

Edit: lol. CPUs are god tier in brawl.


Well at least that makes it a bit easier to land a kill move on MK/wario/diddy, depending on how stubborn they are about not getting grabbed. D:
 

Dark.Pch

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Another thing i wanted to know. Why do you people vote for tier placement for? There should not be no need for that.

But now I see where most of the damage comes from.
 

Zankoku

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People barely voted for Pit to be in the same tier as TL/ZSS/Kirby/ROB, and then the same people voted for him to be above all of them?

How's that work?
After reviewing the individual votes, all I can say is that I blame everyone east of me.
 

bigman40

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Well at least that makes it a bit easier to land a kill move on MK/wario/diddy, depending on how stubborn they are about not getting grabbed. D:
Yeah, at the same time though, we can CG Falco, Pikachu, ZSS, and DK, but can't do anything noteworthy to them. And D3 is more or less even for us since CG isn't that hard to keep avoiding. Idk how other Yoshis feel about Snake, Marth, Lucario (I despise him), and Olimar.
 

Justblaze647

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Take a look at this. These are the top four categories in Ankoku's list of tourney results. I know things become more muddled as the list progresses, which is why I cut it off after the fourth branch. Take note of the characters you see here.

S::metaknight::snake:
A::diddy::marth::falco::wario:
B::popo::dedede::olimar::lucario:
C::toonlink::gw::zerosuitsamus::kirby2::pikachu2: :dk2::rob::peach::wolf::luigi2:

Now this one, is the tier list v4. Before anyone comes in a starts flaming me because "tourney placings aren't the end all be all of how good a character is, I mean, just look at Ganon, he's obviously the worst!" This is why I deliberately shaved off the last three tiers for both groups. Yes its true that tourney results do not directly correlate with how a character should be listed in terms of tourney viability tiers... But you more or less get a feel for the higher tiered characters from tournament rankings, no? So, with that in mind, do you see anyone who doesn't belong?

S::metaknight:
A::snake::diddy::falco::popo::marth::warioc:
B::dedede::pikachu2::olimar::lucario::gw:
C::pit::toonlink::zerosuitsamus::kirby2::rob:
D::dk2::peach::fox::luigi2::wolf:

I'll give you a hint, matter of fact, I'll give you two: Pit and Fox have SBR acknowledged potential to outshine their tournament statistics thus far.

Now, to quote a certain Broomer
not naming any names
:
A tier list is an ordered list of the characters based on their competitive value in the current metagame. It basically shows which characters are currently doing well in tournaments.
Currently in the metagame, and currently in a tourney setting, Pit (and Fox to a lesser degree) has nothing to show that would make him viable at the level which is shown in this tier list. While, surprise surprise, Peach does. So Dark Pch deserves to go on a rant in this thread to his heart's content about how his character is not placed high enough, simply because he (and some others) went out and put in the work to show that their character is worth more than the credit being given.

That being said, I have nothing personal against Pit or Pit mains for that matter. In fact I play him myself. I JUST WANT TO HEAR THE SBR's REASONING FOR BUMPING HIM UP SO HIGH.

Make it a thread in GBD or something, just put out an official statement explaining why you contradicted yourselves in favor of a character who, for all intents and purposes, is not as good as you guys are making him out to be.

Edit: and now, Ankoku, you are the third BBRer to come in here and say "oh, pit? yeah idk how that happened either"

Who IS able to answer this?
 

Moozle

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I asked why Pit rose so much a few days ago and xyro gave this answer. It's dumb but it makes sense.

The SBR assumed ledge stalling, ICG, no ledge grab limit, and all around "gayness" was legal in most events. If pit ledge stalls CORRECTLY then he does ALOT better.
 

DMG

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Pit in reality only rose up above 2 people

Toon Link and ZSS were above him. He was voted above them, while ROB and Kirby filled in Pit and TL's spot (Pit was 17th, TL was 16th).

So while it look like he rose leaps and bounds, the fact is that he was only really kinda bumped up, while Kirby and ROB took a nosedive.

I think Pit has some good placements, and I do believe that if he is allowed to plank, that is he better than ZSS and Toon Link. I think he's still worse than G&W and the characters above him though.
 

Tristan_win

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The more I look at this list the more I hate it.

Do people really think that characters like Fox and Wolf are on a complete different tier then Sheik?
 

mio

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Take a look at this. These are the top four categories in Ankoku's list of tourney results. I know things become more muddled as the list progresses, which is why I cut it off after the fourth branch. Take note of the characters you see here.

S::metaknight::snake:
A::diddy::marth::falco::wario:
B::popo::dedede::olimar::lucario:
C::toonlink::gw::zerosuitsamus::kirby2::pikachu2: :dk2::rob::peach::wolf::luigi2:
I know the official list was based on votes but aside from Snake's placement, this seems like the most accurate list I've seen (even though it's incomplete)
 
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