The Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town, Shantae for SSB4 (WayForward wants her in Smash)

[Children0fTheStars]

Yeah, I have been keeping that in mind, that PAX is still going on Monday. But Nintendo would really surprise me if it turned out they did have something at this point.

On a more positive note (well... for us; it's more like discouragement for the Shovel Knight crowd), I wanted to bring this up: There are talks right now of how Shantae and Shovel Knight stand up against each other on the ballot, and this might be the one place where the "known to Japan" argument may actually turn things in Shantae's favor. Because it's come to light that there are, in fact, Japanese fans of Shantae as well as WayForward having some minor presence there already, while people still say Shovel Knight is pretty unknown.

Added to that, when you compare the two characters in their design, I've been thinking that it'd be harder for Shovel Knight to appeal to the Japanese. He's not Anime-like at all, just a western medieval knight while Shantae is a more exotic and female character. Anyone think this is off-base?

It may counteract the current re-initiation of his hype train due to the Amiibo reveal.

 

[TheRickyWill]

Yeah, I have been keeping that in mind, that PAX is still going on Monday. But Nintendo would really surprise me if it turned out they did have something at this point.

On a more positive note (well... for us; it's more like discouragement for the Shovel Knight crowd), I wanted to bring this up: There are talks right now of how Shantae and Shovel Knight stand up against each other on the ballot, and this might be the one place where the "known to Japan" argument may actually turn things in Shantae's favor. Because it's come to light that there are, in fact, Japanese fans of Shantae as well as WayForward having some minor presence there already, while people still say Shovel Knight is pretty unknown.

Added to that, when you compare the two characters in their design, I've been thinking that it'd be harder for Shovel Knight to appeal to the Japanese. He's not Anime-like at all, just a western medieval knight while Shantae is a more exotic and female character. Anyone think this is off-base?

It may counteract the current re-initiation of his hype train due to the Amiibo reveal.

Shantae, as been shown by the recent increase in Japanese fanart, and even Miiverse posts, clearly has somewhat more popularity in Japan, and seems like a character that can do well for Nintendo from a business standpoint, as Japanese gamers (especially the "otaku" crowd) may be more welcoming to a fun and cute female character like Shantae compared to a somewhat generic character like Shovel Knight, gentlemanly behavior or not. Especially considering how rarely a western franchise is appealing to a Japanese audience, let alone become successful (with the few exceptions being series' like Crash Bandicoot), Shantae's growing popularity, despite have no real official Japanese releases, is extremely surprising.

Also, Wayforward has some games like LIT and Mighty Switch Force released in Japan, not to mention their growing relationship with Inti Creates should help them out some.

The only thing Shovel Knight really has in Japan is that cameo in that short side-game for Bloodstained, and even then, nobody has particularly cared from that end.

At least his design looks cool.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Interestingly I think the only Non-Japan designed player character in Smash is Diddy Kong, from the British Rare. Either Shantae or Shovel Knight would be the first American Designed character.

 

[DoctorSanity]

Well, hey, it would be a start on both the first american character and first indie character for either of them. That would be cool.

(And first POC female on the cast for Shantae but that's beside the point.)

 

[TheRickyWill]

Interestingly I think the only Non-Japan designed player character in Smash is Diddy Kong, from the British Rare. Either Shantae or Shovel Knight would be the first American Designed character.

Which would be nice.

So I can take on For Glory's obsession with sword-wielding anime counter spammers.

Well, hey, it would be a start on both the first american character and first indie character for either of them. That would be cool.

(And first POC female on the cast for Shantae but that's beside the point.)

Actually, we have Little Mac and Ganondorf...

 

[smashkirby]

Interestingly I think the only Non-Japan designed player character in Smash is Diddy Kong, from the British Rare. Either Shantae or Shovel Knight would be the first American Designed character.

Oh, wow! That's right! really IS currently the ONLY non-Japan made character in Smash, right?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Actually, we have Little Mac and Ganondorf...

Ganondorf's a Gerudo, though; a fictional race. And Little Mac was designed by Japanese people, as well; he himself is from New York.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Which would be nice.

So I can take on For Glory's obsession with sword-wielding anime counter spammers.


Actually, we have Little Mac and Ganondorf...

I personally count Ganondorf (because if you don't then you can discount the entire rest of the Zelda cast as white people or be hypocritical) but I think Little Mac is meant to be an American of Mediterranean decent which still counts as white/caucasian. I wish the rest of the cast would get out in the sun more.

 

[TheRickyWill]

I personally count Ganondorf (because if you don't then you can discount the entire rest of the Zelda cast as white people or be hypocritical) but I think Little Mac is meant to be an American of Mediterranean decent which still counts as white/caucasian. I wish the rest of the cast would get out in the sun more.

Like I said, Nintendo promoting diversity more...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Like I said, Nintendo promoting diversity more...

I know, just technicalities.

 

[TheRickyWill]

A somewhat revised version of that post I made a while ago, to introduce a few extra points, some more clarification, and iron out a few errors that @ conTAgi0n pointed out.

Spoiler

Hate to be PC, but... Here's a few quotes from a blog post I found that really opened my eyes:

"If you look at all the video game franchises with three or more games, only 12 have women as the main characters. WayForward’s Shantae the half-genie represents a particularly important - if often overlooked - milestone in representation for female characters."

"Created in 1994 by Erin Bell, with some input from her future husband Matt Bozon, Shantae is the first female character to have her own successful game franchise that was always intended to be female and the star, and who wasn’t spun off a male character’s game."

Something interesting I also found was this quote from Matt Bozon about a comment he made during an interview about the difficulty of pitching Shantae to publishers, long before the Game Boy Color game:
"The female character thing… at the beginning, my goodness, you would not believe how hard that was. We had opportunities to get the Shantae project rolling for a while and there were plenty of conversations. With a young game industry - with people who had some money and would have to make a colossal risk to get the game manufactured and into stores, and they would ask some tough questions like “We gotta ask you… have you considered making it a male character instead? ‘Cause this is a male audience. Gotta put a guy. We don’t know, it’s never been proven that a male-dominated audience will accept a female character. Especially one that looks like this. She’s not tough, she’s just this unsuspecting [belly dancer]!” I think we were taking on too many things at the time that were risky. … It was a female character. It was a dancing game. And when we were pitching this, there was no DDR yet. We were saying we want this to be where you have to have some rhythm and there’s like a beat to it in order to transform. And they were like "Oh, it’s too hard to understand what that’d be like. What if somebody can’t get that concept?” “Well we think we can teach it to them.” “Mm… I don’t know. And it’s a girl?” And a couple of times they were like “If you put a male character and even have it be selectable, you can play as the male character or the female character. Or maybe you unlock the female character!” And we were like “NO. This is what the game is; we want it to be about this. This is her, this is her game."

Keep in mind that these pitches that Matt is talking about were made long before games like Tomb Raider, which was an enourmous success.

PERSONALLY, THIS FEELS IMPORTANT.

In a time where female leads, and diversity in general, is becoming encouraged in gaming. Heck, Nintendo's recently been doing it by putting the spotlight more on the Inkling Girl in Splatoon, and the inclusion of same-sex relationships in Fire Emblem: Fates.

Shantae personally seems like a character that seems capable of representing something more than the eShop, Indies,and Handheld-born franchises. She is one of the very first female protagonists (Not to mention of a different race/color) of a long-running franchise. Like the quote above says, there's only 12 franchises mainly starring female characters that have 3 or more games. Shantae has been critically successful, and some of her games have sold quite well, too. Not to mention that is the Shantae series is currently fast approacing it's fourth and largest installment, which was also succesful on Kickstarter, reaching twice the amount of money that Wayforward originally asked for.

That sounds like a pretty solid reason to put her in Smash Bros, to me.

Every 3rd party in Super Smash Bros has their proper place, from gaming's past to it's future.

>Pac-Man was the game that brought gaming to a larger audience.

>Mega Man was one of the most succesful 3rd party franchises birthed on Nintendo, and constantly changed and evolved on it as the systems did.

>Solid Snake added more story elements to games, and introduced a new mechanic to gaming: Stealth.

>Sonic was the one who stepped up against Mr. Video Game (Mario) himself, with a battle that changed the gaming industry.

So, what will Shantae bring to the table? What impact has she made, or what will impact will she make?

Well, Shantae will represent the growing encouragement of diversity within gaming, and promote the independent developers who struggle just to bring their vision to life. For a character who has been dedicated to Nintendo for so long, a whopping 13 years, with her story, developer-wise, and how unique she is, Nintendo should really be proud to have her long history of games that have mainly been on their systems.

Feel free to post this (almost) anywhere that something like this would feel necessary.

 

[DoctorSanity]

Actually, we have Little Mac and Ganondorf...

Oh, I didn't know Little Mac and Ganondorf were females. I will address them by their preferred pronouns from now on.

(joking, of course. I did say first POC FEMALE after all.)

 

[TheRickyWill]

Oh, I didn't know Little Mac and Ganondorf were females. I will address them by their preferred pronouns from now on.

(joking, of course. I did say first POC FEMALE after all.)

Oops. I didn't see that.

Sorry!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Would Tetra count or would the fact she loses the tan when she becomes Zelda disqualify her?

Oops, Spoilers.

 

[TheRickyWill]

Would Tetra count or would the fact she loses the tan when she becomes Zelda disqualify her?

Oops, Spoilers.

The game's 13 years old, dude.

It's fine.

 

[TheRickyWill]

Check it out! A totally legitimate #PAX photo of the #Shantae zipper pull! pic.twitter.com/HTkszmEsjm

— WayForward (@WayForward) August 31, 2015

slowly claps

 

[ShyGuy XL]

Bad news is I lost the Red Yellow Blue 3rd Party edition but I was able to save the Shantae I drew for it and put it to good use, to me this my best Shantae I've drawn so far and I'm gonna keep drawing her and hopefully get more votes for our girl

Spoiler

 

[dangeraaron10]

@ TheRickyWill

Riveting.

 

[TheRickyWill]

Bad news is I lost the Red Yellow Blue 3rd Party edition but I was able to save the Shantae I drew for it and put it to good use, to me this my best Shantae I've drawn so far and I'm gonna keep drawing her and hopefully get more votes for our girl

Spoiler

View attachment 71104View attachment 71105

I'm glad we can attach files now. I'm just gonna leave this fanart I did a month or two ago right here...

I have no idea why I drew her in Nikes. She looked pretty good in them.

I also tend to draw Shantae a bit more... built. My approach to drawing muscle has somewhat changed, though. It looks somewhat odd here.

 

[TheRickyWill]

So it seems that a ton of people enjoyed the Half-Genie Hero demo at PAX. Hopefully, this means more votes for Shantae in the ballot.

However, I'd really like that demo to be released on the eShop. It's not like Wayforward can use it again, for now. I think a good strategy to keep it balanced for those who backed is for them to get a code for the Wii U demo a week early, before the public can play it.

 

[Shadowknight1]

So it seems that a ton of people enjoyed the Half-Genie Hero demo at PAX. Hopefully, this means more votes for Shantae in the ballot.

However, I'd really like that demo to be released on the eShop. It's not like Wayforward can use it again, for now. I think a good strategy to keep it balanced for those who backed is for them to get a code for the Wii U demo a week early, before the public can play it.

I wouldn't mind that. I couldn't really play the Steam demo as my computer sucks, which is why I want the game for Wii U. Plus pro-Nintendo 4 life.

 

[TheRickyWill]

I wouldn't mind that. I couldn't really play the Steam demo as my computer sucks, which is why I want the game for Wii U. Plus pro-Nintendo 4 life.

Nintendo + PC has always been the way to go, personally.

 

[ShyGuy XL]

I'm glad we can attach files now. I'm just gonna leave this fanart I did a month or two ago right here...View attachment 71113
I have no idea why I drew her in Nikes. She looked pretty good in them.

I also tend to draw Shantae a bit more... built. My approach to drawing muscle has somewhat changed, though. It looks somewhat odd here.

Not bad I drew a Modern Shantae wearing converse once

 

[Shadowknight1]

Also, was bored at work today, thought up a Final Smash for Shantae. A curtain drops behind the stage an music starts. Shantae dances to the rhythm of your button presses and the better your timing, the more gems get thrown at your opponents before it ends in a magical explosion, then Shantae takes a bow.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Well, looks like server maintenance is finished, and all that changed was something related to tournament mode. I'd say no news is good news for us. Speculation that Shovel Knight is imminent is going to die down, since this is when people were expecting him.

It does hurt the credibility of these Shovel Knight rumors. It always seemed weird to me that they would have chosen their big winners right at the beginning, despite leaving the ballot open for so long. The longer we go without hearing more about Shovel Knight, the more likely it becomes that Sakurai is letting the ballot play out before making his final decisions. That would be very good news for us.

I'm also loving all this Japanese fan art of Shantae. It's hard to know how that translates into broader recognition, but it's definitely a good sign. I have been wondering though; how aware is Japan that Shantae is popular in the Smash ballot over here? So far I haven't seen any of these Japanese tweets or Miiverse posts reference the ballot. Maybe they are aware and just consider overt campaigning distasteful or something, but you have to wonder. If there is some way for us to clue them into her popularity on the ballot in the West, maybe that would be just the spark she needs over there. Who knows?

Also something has been bugging me about the ballot in Japan. We have had tons of polls on ballot characters, both big and small, since the start of the ballot. In Japan on the other hand there have been basically none. Every time someone tries to get a poll going over there, they never get any votes. Does Japan just not dig online polls for some reason? Or could it be that they just aren't nearly as invested in the ballot as we are? If so, is it possible that we are all vastly overestimating the importance of Japan in this ballot?

Man it makes me wish I spoke Japanese so I could just go to their forums and see for myself.

Yeah, and Sakurai seems to always try to play the games in order to get a feel for a character before he starts really working on them.

...Huh, come to think of it, Shantae's moveset would probably be solely based on which game Sakurai may play first, wouldn't it?

My bet would be a lot of Pirate's Curse moves, plus some fighter gear moves from the first Shantae. Pirate's Curse is the most prominent Shantae game now and gives them the most to work with, but Sakurai always gives a nod to a character's classic roots. Also they might include a move or two from HGH.

 

[Shadowknight1]

I honestly hope not too much from Pirate's Curse. I think they should focus on Shantae the Half-Genie rather than Shantae the human using Risky's stuff.

 

[Manic Rykker]

Also something has been bugging me about the ballot in Japan. We have had tons of polls on ballot characters, both big and small, since the start of the ballot. In Japan on the other hand there have been basically none. Every time someone tries to get a poll going over there, they never get any votes. Does Japan just not dig online polls for some reason? Or could it be that they just aren't nearly as invested in the ballot as we are? If so, is it possible that we are all vastly overestimating the importance of Japan in this ballot?

Man it makes me wish I spoke Japanese so I could just go to their forums and see for myself.

Unfortunately, from what I've heard lately, a lot of Japanese fans REALLY seem to prefer veterans.. infact in a lot of polls done where they do get input, veterans often make the top list quite surprisingly frequently..

Yeeaah, the Japanese loove their cut Vets XD. As you might guess, this one was taken from when Lucas wasn't announced as DLC at the time.

Most I have heard come up that get a considerable mention, would be K. Rool.. (then again, that guy is a powerhouse in general in this.)


Personally, in terms of DLC.. not to step on anyone's mains, but... as I have expressed in the past, I REALLY hate the idea of Veteran DLC... It's mostly due to the fact that I've already seen em before. I've seen how they play, and I have experienced them before. I would much rather have new blood... A DLC line-up full of nearly all cut veterans would... disappoint me to be honest. (and before anyone brings up the "they can be reworked" argument... when has that come into play before so far? Mewtwo works fairly the same, Lucas works fairly the same... Roy works fairly the same. (Save for final smashes.. assuming they didn't have one.).. I have yet to see a single Veteran that has returned as DLC get a full blown moveset rework.. and to be honest, I just think they don't want to. Why would you go to all that trouble to do a years worth of work to give them a brand new moveset, when you can just work off of what they already have and improve that?.. (which, they of course have done with Mew2, Lucas, and Roy.. I mean, I'm not saying they are bad characters here. I just mean they haven't had a DRAMATIC change from when they were first introduced to Smash bros.)..)

I mean, I don't mind Veterans returning in sequels. I like seeing some familiar faces in that regard... I just don't like the idea of a DLC line up being OVER RUN with the dang things... especially when it's "paid" DLC...

 

[B.H. and DD]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72413413
You guys are gonna love this!

 

[DoctorSanity]

Ugh, give me a warning before you link to mind numbing worse than Family Guy

 

[Manic Rykker]

Ugh, give me a warning before you link to mind numbing worse than Family Guy

Heh. To be honest, I bet we could hear the rage and screaming from that kid from all over the world if Shantae got in and got a reveal trailer over their "sooo deserving cooking mama"...

 

[dangeraaron10]

Pfffffffffffffffff......

Ah it's great. Popcorn worthy.

(Haters gonna hate)

This little gem was cropped up in the K. Rool thread, though the name behind the maker escapes me but he did a heck of a job.

Any artists in here want to make a Shantae inspired "Haters gonna hate" gif? Probably using this as a base?

 

[SL the Pyro]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72413413
You guys are gonna love this!

This gave me a much-needed chuckle.

 

[ShyGuy XL]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72413413
You guys are gonna love this!

What I did just read ?

 

[Children0fTheStars]

That guy (if it's the same thread and user I'm thinking of) was a troll account that was only a day old, and he's just been suspended. So...

It's GameFAQs. It really just is not worth trying to deal with that website; completely troll-infested and has Reddit's problem of circle-jerking. The mods are completely laughable as well; I think it takes very severe ToU violations in order to get a high-level account a meaningful punishment. If not, if you have a lot of karma stacked, you seem to be able to get away with quite a lot.

I honestly hope not too much from Pirate's Curse. I think they should focus on Shantae the Half-Genie rather than Shantae the human using Risky's stuff.

You beat me to this, but I was going to bring this up as well. Yes, it is a good game and the most current and well-known one, but I honestly think that if people saw Shantae using mostly pirate equipment and they were unfamiliar with her character, it would probably send the wrong message. Again, she's a half-Genie, so I too would much rather her have far more of a focus on her magic than the pirate weapons/gear.

That said, I'm not saying there should be none of the items. One or two would probably be fine, like maybe Risky's hat for her recovery Special. But personally... I have to say I really hope her moveset doesn't include the cutlass for various reasons. I wouldn't want Sakurai to get the wrong idea and think she's a sword-user.

 

[B.H. and DD]

What I did just read ?

His hate for Shantae and Bayonetta just went up as the topic went on. Luckily, not many agreed with him.

 

[DiagonalSpy07]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72413413
You guys are gonna love this!

HA! You're right, this is gold! Though I will admit, he's...ambitious about his choice (though that word can seriously go both ways).

 

[dangeraaron10]

I seemed to have brought sanity into the thread. I'm surprised several posters quoted me on my respect for other characters, so apparently this attitude is quite rare on GameFAQs and that turn in conversation was a nice change of pace.

 

[smashkirby]

That guy (if it's the same thread and user I'm thinking of) was a troll account that was only a day old, and he's just been suspended. So...

It's GameFAQs. It really just is not worth trying to deal with that website; completely troll-infested and has Reddit's problem of circle-jerking. The mods are completely laughable as well; I think it takes very severe ToU violations in order to get a high-level account a meaningful punishment. If not, if you have a lot of karma stacked, you seem to be able to get away with quite a lot.



You beat me to this, but I was going to bring this up as well. Yes, it is a good game and the most current and well-known one, but I honestly think that if people saw Shantae using mostly pirate equipment and they were unfamiliar with her character, it would probably send the wrong message. Again, she's a half-Genie, so I too would much rather her have far more of a focus on her magic than the pirate weapons/gear.

That said, I'm not saying there should be none of the items. One or two would probably be fine, like maybe Risky's hat for her recovery Special. But personally... I have to say I really hope her moveset doesn't include the cutlass for various reasons. I wouldn't want Sakurai to get the wrong idea and think she's a sword-user.

Yeah, if Shantae is added to Smash, I REALLY hope she doesn't end up primarily using pirate gear to fight. Seems like a bit of an insult to her character.

 

[Manic Rykker]

Yeah, if Shantae is added to Smash, I REALLY hope she doesn't end up primarily using pirate gear to fight. Seems like a bit of an insult to her character.

Well to be honest, We should go in expecting anything if she gets in... bare in mind, full blown transformations are impossible thanks to the 3DS... To be honest, I'm sure most of us would be happy getting her in Smash in the first place XD


Personally, I'd like to see a combination of just about everything. (Another thing, she actually has some pretty sweet melee moves from what I've seen in the original Shantae)

 

[dangeraaron10]

Yeah, if Shantae is added to Smash, I REALLY hope she doesn't end up primarily using pirate gear to fight. Seems like a bit of an insult to her character.

Keep in mind Sakurai went out of his way to use the classic versions of Mega Man and Pac Man when several more recent renditions were readily available. He even threatened Namco about using the most recent version of Pac Man about not including him if he had to use the rendition that originated out of a game.

That being said I would honestly expect most of her moves to involve her hair and her magic. Transformations are out, sadly, unless you do a quick one-move-form. Like her Up Special turning into a bat for recovery and turning back into Shantae when she finishes the move, like Pac Man does. Or like a down smash turning into a Siren and knocking foes back with a sonic scream (I don't know if Siren is actually a form or if it is then what it does, that was just a hypothetical example).

So while transforming can happen, to a very small degree, as in very simplistic transformations for the purpose of a specific move that reverts back to the normal form once it ends.

That said, I have full confidence Sakurai could make a transformation-free Shantae moveset without using any material from Pirate's Curse. Not to mention if Sakurai asked for it, WayForward would gladly and very readily allow Sakurai to play early versions of Half-Genie Hero for moveset ideas, seeings how it's going to come out either just before or just after the Ballot ends and it would be very recent, possibly even cross promotion going on.