Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[AlphaSSB]

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[Deleted member 269706]

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[Xandercosm]

+1 (Top-tier, obviously; she has great results. and I think there's more than enough representation for her)

-1 (No representation and overall bad base moveset. Suffers the exact same problems as Zelda, but doesn't have star players repping her.)

+1 (Players like Bengalz show that Charizard has very good potential when played effectively, and I think that he's a good main with a secondary to cover his worse matchups. Definitely not a dominant force in the meta, but I've seen enough good Charizards to say he's not horrifically unviable.)

-1 (Samus is also easily near the bottom of the barrel, with her laggy moves, poor recovery and her now-useless NAir. She's almost, almost worse than Jigglypuff; only getting saved by her weight making it slightly harder for her to be KO'd than the Puffster.)

+1 (Sonic is hilariously good at what he does, and what he does is overwhelm his opponents with quick attacks that can shred an unwary Rosaluma. Not better than Shiek and Zamus, but I think he's better than Rosaluma and certainly has more representation than Pikachu.)

Never thought I would actually be defending Samus but how could you consider her THAT bad? She has a lot of things beyond weight that Puff doesn't. Combos, projectiles, power, etc. I mean, she's bad but not even near Jiggs. I would put her maybe in bottom 20 really.

Also, I don't think you have ever seriously played Sonic if you think he is better than Rosa. He has a surprising lack of safe approach options and gets demolished by anyone who knows how to use their shield.

 

[Bowserboy3]

-1 (Samus is also easily near the bottom of the barrel, with her laggy moves, poor recovery and her now-useless NAir. She's almost, almost worse than Jigglypuff; only getting saved by her weight making it slightly harder for her to be KO'd than the Puffster.)

Samus is most certainly not bottom of the barrel, and I know plenty of people who would support me on this. Her moves aren't exactly laggy (Frame 3 jab, frame 6 Dtilt, frame 10 fsmash with little recovery time), Nair is actually very powerful, and is capable of killing off stage very early. What makes this even more laughable is your last quote. Samus is FAR heavier than Jigglypuff. Samus dies significantly later than Jigglypuff. Samus also has a very good recovery, being heavy and floaty means she has great horizontal recovery, and has multiple recovery options, such as Bombs, good 2nd jump, Up B with hitbox and a Zair.

Samus does have a few problems, yes, but they are nothing mentioned here. I'm not disagreeing with your - vote. Yes, Samus isn't tier 4, but she is certainly not "bottom of the barrel", nor for any of the reasons you listed.

Also, I don't think I quite believe my eyes... Xandercosm virtually agreeing with me about Samus? Boy times sure have changed!

But Xandercosm , I also agree with everything you said about Sonic. Basically Sonic in a nutshell.

 

[Deleted member]

+1 Obligatory vote for Sheik to be in tier 1.
-1 Needs to be knocked down a peg. I'd see him somewhere in the middle of tier 3 as the rest of the tiers stabilize.
+1 Oli needs the love. Decent representation by players like Myran and Rich Brown, great KOing and damage racking ability along with a combo throw and kill throw. Definitely deserves to be higher.
-1 Dedede is utmost bottom 5. I'm going to downvote him as much as I don't want to.
-1 lol at Corrin being so high.

 

[dayo]

+1
+1
+1
+1
-1

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Samus is most certainly not bottom of the barrel, and I know plenty of people who would support me on this. Her moves aren't exactly laggy (Frame 3 jab, frame 6 Dtilt, frame 10 fsmash with little recovery time), Nair is actually very powerful, and is capable of killing off stage very early. What makes this even more laughable is your last quote. Samus is FAR heavier than Jigglypuff. Samus dies significantly later than Jigglypuff. Samus also has a very good recovery, being heavy and floaty means she has great horizontal recovery, and has multiple recovery options, such as Bombs, good 2nd jump, Up B with hitbox and a Zair.

Samus does have a few problems, yes, but they are nothing mentioned here. I'm not disagreeing with your - vote. Yes, Samus isn't tier 4, but she is certainly not "bottom of the barrel", nor for any of the reasons you listed.

I'm not insinuating her to be the worst of the cast (hell, with characters like Jigglypuff and Duck Hunt, friggin' no way is she the last on the list), but certainly she's at least bottom-tier, or very close to it. She's not gotten much rep in major tournaments, plenty of people (even Samus mains) say she's not very good and there's not a whole lot of people trying to defend her credibility in majors, at least as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough, I don't know, but Samus is not a character I see as being ever outsude of the bottom 10 of the list.

Also, she can't bomb-jump nearly as effectively as in Melee and Brawl, her UpB is almost entirely a vertical recovery move and she's just not overall very good. Not horrid, but not good. Like, I'm not going to call all Samus mains idiots for playing her and claim she's the absolute worst character with no redeeming quality; but the fact is that she's got severe problems with her moveset, and she especially has a painful time against characters like Shiek and Zamus because of her faults. If this were more akin to P:M Samus, I'd be praising Samus to the heavens...but she's not. She's the same as she's been in Brawl; a floaty, tall and slow character who has a heavy emphasis on zoning (if that sounds familiar, it's because that's essentially , but even taller)...I'd place her above 'Dorf, but that's only because this list is customs-off.

Like, she's not awful...but what's the benefit of only just being bad as opposed to awful? Maybe a bit more use in tournaments? Either way, she's still going to have a rough time with , , , , , , etc.

 

[Xandercosm]

Samus is most certainly not bottom of the barrel, and I know plenty of people who would support me on this. Her moves aren't exactly laggy (Frame 3 jab, frame 6 Dtilt, frame 10 fsmash with little recovery time), Nair is actually very powerful, and is capable of killing off stage very early. What makes this even more laughable is your last quote. Samus is FAR heavier than Jigglypuff. Samus dies significantly later than Jigglypuff. Samus also has a very good recovery, being heavy and floaty means she has great horizontal recovery, and has multiple recovery options, such as Bombs, good 2nd jump, Up B with hitbox and a Zair.

Samus does have a few problems, yes, but they are nothing mentioned here. I'm not disagreeing with your - vote. Yes, Samus isn't tier 4, but she is certainly not "bottom of the barrel", nor for any of the reasons you listed.

Also, I don't think I quite believe my eyes... Xandercosm virtually agreeing with me about Samus? Boy times sure have changed!

But Xandercosm , I also agree with everything you said about Sonic. Basically Sonic in a nutshell.

It was even a surprise to me but times really have changed.

 

[IndigoSSB]

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High tiers seem to be on their way, now for the low tiers.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

+1 Very hesitant to say that she MIGHT(could be wrong) be better then Gannon, or at least at the very bottom of the tier he's in.
-1 Not seeing him being this high.
+1
+1
+1 Just want to make sure he stays at the complete mid mostly.

Well made my decision

 

[TMNTSSB4]

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Saving the other 2

 

[Jumpo]

I feel Mac has too many amazing thing on the ground to be bad, even with pitiful off-stage. The super-armored Smashs, insane frame data, and movement speed make punishing jump about anything as easy as eating a big Mac. If you aren't careful, Mac will be killing you at 70% easy. This latest patch also makes breaking shields with Downwards angled f-smash much easier. Mac also has KO punch, an amazing comeback move. There's also Mac's down tilt, with is an amazing combo starter (Into KO punch, even) with good range.

Overall, Mac is low mid tier in my opinion.

I agree with all that, I don't think he is bad, he is crazy good in any mid level play, I was more just focusing on higher level competitive where it seems like every good player could just throw him offstage and end the game

 

[Jumpo]

+1 (obviously tier 1)
+1 (Incredibly difficult for anyone to verse because of Luma)
+1 (this man is insane in the hands of someone like Trela)
+1 (so hard to deal with)
-1 (too slow to do anything useful and bottom tier)

 

[RosalinA]

+1 Rosalina (Obviously)
+1 Meta Knight (Obviously)
+1 Corrin (Has a lot of things going for him (check out the Corrin page to see what I'm talking about))
+1 Lucario (Aura is an amazing tool and allows him to space better and kill much earlier, and he still has combos)
-1 Mii Brawler (The worst of the mii's and the worst character in smash 4 in my opinion with the 1111 moveset and medium size)
This, in my opinion, would be the tier list I would go by:
Top Tier:
S:
Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina and Luma
A+:
Villager, Pikachu, Ryu, Meta Knight, Mario, Sonic, Fox
A:
Bayonneta, Cloud, Corrin, Diddy Kong, Ness

High Tier:
A-:
Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Dark Pit, Pit, R.O.B.
B+:
Toon Link, Lucario, Pac-Man, Greninja, Mega Man, Luigi, Peach

Middle Tier:
B:
Wario, Olimar, Donkey Kong, Ike, Lucas, Kirby
B-:
Marth, Roy, Bowser, WFT, Bowser jr., Robin
C:
Link, Lucina, Mewtwo, G&W, Duck Hunt, Shulk

Low Tier:
D:
Little Mac, Dr. Mario, King Dedede
E:
Charizard, Samus, Palutena, Jigglypuff

Bottom Tier:
F:
Ganondorf, Mii swordfighter, Mii gunner, Zelda, Mii brawler

To clarify, the miis are put to tournament standards, which are 1111, move sets, and that they be put to medium size. Personally, I think it's okay to put miis at 1111 move sets like the rest of the cast, but I do think they should be able to change their sizes down to small. Also, the new tier list section top tiers as only the 3 characters in S tier, and that's just wrong. When we categorize characters, we say stuff like their top tier, like with Cloud and Diddy Kong, those characters aren't high tier, their top tier.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

-1
+1
-1
+1/
and, since I have no other ideas and i am a fire emblem bias +1(Will more than likely come back to this to change it but for now it is Femui.)

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

+1

So close to upvoting , but I could see her being fourth overall. The others are quite clearly too low, however.

 

[MidwesternHawk]

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[Yoshister]

+1 Rosalina (Obviously)
+1 Meta Knight (Obviously)
+1 Corrin (Has a lot of things going for him (check out the Corrin page to see what I'm talking about))
+1 Lucario (Aura is an amazing tool and allows him to space better and kill much earlier, and he still has combos)
-1 Mii Brawler (The worst of the mii's and the worst character in smash 4 in my opinion with the 1111 moveset and medium size)
This, in my opinion, would be the tier list I would go by:
Top Tier:
S:
Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina and Luma
A+:
Villager, Pikachu, Ryu, Meta Knight, Mario, Sonic, Fox
A:
Bayonneta, Cloud, Corrin, Diddy Kong, Ness

High Tier:
A-:
Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Dark Pit, Pit, R.O.B.
B+:
Toon Link, Lucario, Pac-Man, Greninja, Mega Man, Luigi, Peach

Middle Tier:
B:
Wario, Olimar, Donkey Kong, Ike, Lucas, Kirby
B-:
Marth, Roy, Bowser, WFT, Bowser jr., Robin
C:
Link, Lucina, Mewtwo, G&W, Duck Hunt, Shulk

Low Tier:
D:
Little Mac, Dr. Mario, King Dedede
E:
Charizard, Samus, Palutena, Jigglypuff

Bottom Tier:
F:
Ganondorf, Mii swordfighter, Mii gunner, Zelda, Mii brawler

To clarify, the miis are put to tournament standards, which are 1111, move sets, and that they be put to medium size. Personally, I think it's okay to put miis at 1111 move sets like the rest of the cast, but I do think they should be able to change their sizes down to small. Also, the new tier list section top tiers as only the 3 characters in S tier, and that's just wrong. When we categorize characters, we say stuff like their top tier, like with Cloud and Diddy Kong, those characters aren't high tier, their top tier.

In this thread, Miis have customs allowed.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

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[Deleted member]

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Err, why are you downvoting Sheik?

 

[Yoshister]

Err, why are you downvoting Sheik?

It's obviously because she's grade A trash.

In all seriousness, Kirby Dragons might think that Sheik is Tier 3 (Or tier 2 if K.D. doesn't realize we aren't basing our votes on the official tier list).

 

[Luig]

+ (has been getting a lot of results.)
+ (duh)
- (I think Marth's better than him at this point.)
+ (has gotten a lot of buffs)
- (it just doesn't really have much representation, and I'm not sure about potential.)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

+
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[Kirby Dragons]

I just think she's below ZSS and possibly Bayonetta.

 

[Smudges]

I just think she's below ZSS and possibly Bayonetta.

Any reason?
I really don't think that Shiek is below Zss...

 

[Luig]

Any reason?
I really don't think that Shiek is below Zss...

Sheik is just a better character than ZSS. Better neutral, better approaching, better zoning, ZSS can kill a bit easier, but Sheik has a better grab. Not saying ZSS isn't good tho. She's top 3.

 

[Smudges]

Sheik is just a better character than ZSS. Better neutral, better approaching, better zoning, ZSS can kill a bit easier, but Sheik has a better grab. Not saying ZSS isn't good tho. She's top 3.

Yep. Zss' punish game is absurd, but Sheik outclasses her in nearly everything else. I really don't see HOW Zss could be higher than Sheik on a tier list...

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Any reason?
I really don't think that Shiek is below Zss...

Most people don't. I say so because Zero Suit Samus has an easier time getting a KO, also her uairs.

 

[RosalinA]

In this thread, Miis have customs allowed.

Really? I thought this was tournament standards. But I'll change it it this:
+1 Mii Brawler
-1 Zelda (With mii's getting customs, I believe she is the worst character)

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

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[TMNTSSB4]

So far, I can see the Pits, Ike, Peach, Corrin, Tink, Rob, Pacman, Megaman...jk Cloud, and Bayonetta(until after a month or so to see if she's deserving of tiers 1-2)all in the high tier/tier 3 squad part of the tier list.

 

[kiddo805]

+ Too many downvotes

+

Saving the rest.

 

[Djmarcus44]

+1
+ 1
+ 1
-1
-1

 

[Eisen]

-1 As much as I love him, he is definitely not that high.
-1 In my recent experience, Zelda is the worst character in the game. What even are her hitboxes?
-1 Definitely good, but the more I play them, the more I see holes in their moveset that other top tiers just don't have.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'm not insinuating her to be the worst of the cast (hell, with characters like Jigglypuff and Duck Hunt, friggin' no way is she the last on the list), but certainly she's at least bottom-tier, or very close to it. She's not gotten much rep in major tournaments, plenty of people (even Samus mains) say she's not very good and there's not a whole lot of people trying to defend her credibility in majors, at least as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough, I don't know, but Samus is not a character I see as being ever outsude of the bottom 10 of the list.

Also, she can't bomb-jump nearly as effectively as in Melee and Brawl, her UpB is almost entirely a vertical recovery move and she's just not overall very good. Not horrid, but not good. Like, I'm not going to call all Samus mains idiots for playing her and claim she's the absolute worst character with no redeeming quality; but the fact is that she's got severe problems with her moveset, and she especially has a painful time against characters like Shiek and Zamus because of her faults. If this were more akin to P:M Samus, I'd be praising Samus to the heavens...but she's not. She's the same as she's been in Brawl; a floaty, tall and slow character who has a heavy emphasis on zoning (if that sounds familiar, it's because that's essentially , but even taller)...I'd place her above 'Dorf, but that's only because this list is customs-off.

Like, she's not awful...but what's the benefit of only just being bad as opposed to awful? Maybe a bit more use in tournaments? Either way, she's still going to have a rough time with , , , , , , etc.

Samus has got a lot more rep than any of the bottom tiers (players like ESAM, Jonny Westside, Depth, Ryo etc all using her on occasion), but that's by the by. But you mention bomb jumping... yes, she cannot Bomb Jump as effectively, but that doesn't change the fact that using a single bomb mid air slows your falling speed. Using multiple bombs while heading towards the ledge can slow your falling speed, and improve recovery. Up B is fine; it was never a problem before, why is it suddenly a problem now? It can get distance to the left/right, though it is mainly a upwards recovery move (just a note, it has increased vertical distance). Her Zair is her horizontal recovery move. Samus is not slow in the slightest. She's faster than she's ever been in any Smash game.

You are correct that she does have other problems with her moveset, but even those aren't severe, and aren't exploitable like other bottom tiers like Ganon, Zelda, Puff, Dedede etc. Samus is certainly not even bottom 10 at all. Much better combo game than all around her, much better recovery options to all around her, better zoning to all around her, zero to deaths with platforms etc, etc... She has flaws that keep her from rising to Mid Tier for example, but she is not bottom tier. Just for the record, Samus actually has a really nice time against Ryu too. Her projectiles and multi hit moves really screw him over.

 

[Deleted member]

I also don't consider to be anywhere near bottom 5 either. I'd vote her up but it'd be lost in a sea of downvotes that everybody already gives her. She has way better results than most of the low/bottom tiers lol

 

[Xandercosm]

I also don't consider to be anywhere near bottom 5 either. I'd vote her up but it'd be lost in a sea of downvotes that everybody already gives her. She has way better results than most of the low/bottom tiers lol

No way. She's got massive issues that keep her bottom 10, at least. I don't know about bottom 5. But definitely bottom 10. Honestly, I feel like she's the least intimidating character in the game (literally and figuratively). She has a weak combo throw, trouble killing, she's slow and clunky, she gets comboed hard, she's light, etc. She has a whole mess of issues that definitely hurt her viability in a big way.

 

[Robertos0511]

Here's my votes and then what tier I believe they should be in
+1 (Tier 4)
+1 (Tier 2)
+1 (Tier 2 for now)
+1 (Tier 5)
-1 (Tier 5/6)

 

[Deleted member]

No way. She's got massive issues that keep her bottom 10, at least. I don't know about bottom 5. But definitely bottom 10. Honestly, I feel like she's the least intimidating character in the game (literally and figuratively). She has a weak combo throw, trouble killing, she's slow and clunky, she gets comboed hard, she's light, etc. She has a whole mess of issues that definitely hurt her viability in a big way.

Down throw is actually a pretty good combo throw and her grab has decent range and speed, and her aerial moveset is pretty good too. Her back air and dash attack have invincibility on them, the latter even has the potential to kill as long as you don't stale it and blocks projectiles. Her jab, even if slow (why on frame 8, whyyy) leads into her grab or smashes. Warp's also really good and useful when ledge canceled. Her movement isn't even too shabby considering her dash speed is top 10.
I can definitely agree that her light weight and terrible frame data aren't a good combination, it's practically the same flaw has but Palutena has a a few good things going for her that keep her from being outright trash.

 

[Furret24]

Her movement isn't even too shabby considering her dash speed is top 10.

Actually, she only has the 13th best dashing speed.