Stage Discussion

[PLATINUM7]

So, many of you have probably already seen D1's video montage about banned stage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz96eSYdFvc
But I was wondering why he considered the Mario Galaxy stage would be among the banned one? It doesn't seem to have any random threat in it to make that call. Was he too quick to judge?

On a side note, I consider the reason a stage should be banned when it has
-Random threat attacking the players at unpredictable times
-design that would favor certain kind of characters, like for example, hit and run tactics for fast characters.
-unpredictable platforms that can result luck save or luck death.

Going by this, wouldn't the Megaman level actually be potentially considered Legal; despite the Yellow Devil? Sure, it has a boss, but all of his move are predicatble, he is not a random threat, but seems like a bas whose every moves, strength and health can easily be read, studied and therefore be easily predictable.

In this case, he can actually be used tactically. And you can't blame luck on it. It might make for a interesting kind of fights I am not seeing that stage being used in a final of a tournament, but It could be used in elimination pools.

Same with the platform of this stage, they seems to have predictable pattern too.

Am I wrong thinking that the only kind of stage that should be banned are the one with element of Luck/Randomness (or design flaw for balanced fights)?

Mario Galaxy would probably be banned due to having walk offs.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Mario Galaxy would probably be banned due to having walk offs.

Also, depending on how the gravity works it might be abusable in some ways we might not have seen yet.

 

[ecylisis]

I really want a good Mother stage for this one
Onett wasn't really that fun due to the cars and how it compact was with it's lack of pits
Fourside was fun but with four players it became quite to much of a mess to handle to due the pits
And New Pork City's problem was its size, period.

Saturn Valley's one of the very few common locations between Mother 2 and Mother 3, right? I want that to be a stage.

Also I'd do anything to get the stage from Thousand Year Door. The possibilities are endless, and dat music

 

[GUIGUI]

(...) Playing with items on could arguably be a test of skill(...) This is just how it is and while the Yellow Devil might be scripted to act in a predictable way, it would just be so different from every other legal stage.

Just imagine the butthurt when someone loses SSB4 finals to a stage hazard.

Items would still appear randomly, favoring player out of sheer luck depending of when and where they appears, this is a good reason for it to be banned.

As for someone losing to the yellow Devil, this is why I suggested the Megaman level being only allowed at elimination pools while still being removed from the final, but Buthurt or not, if the Yellow Devil is 100% predictable, defeat would solely be because of the player, not luck.

Also, what if walk-offs aren't actually abusable in Smash 4? Is the impossibility to KO the opponent on the down side of the screen really problematic? Air game is important, but it doesn't have to be the defining point of tournaments either. I really would like to see how a pro-fight plays out with a bended gravity.

 

[NintenRob]

I really think that the Balloon Fight stage hints at R.O.B. returning. His All-star stage in Brawl was an NES inspired stage and so is this stage. And you can't do that much with Gyromite as well so it makes sense for them to use NES stages that keep their 8-Bit look for him.

 

[Empyrean]

Could it be....that the Elite 4 stage could be the neutral Pokemon Stadium that we always needed?

 

[Miffa]

Could it be....that the Elite 4 stage could be the neutral Pokemon Stadium that we always needed?

it seems to move from room to room but we don't know how that works yet so i guess we will have to see with that stage.

 

[Empyrean]

it seems to move from room to room but we don't know how that works yet so i guess we will have to see with that stage.

My guess is that it will randomly choose between one of the rooms. At least I hope so. I don't want this stage to be butchered by a gimmick/hazard too. If transitions are a thing, then hopefully they are smooth and don't mess with the flow of the match too much.

 

[Miffa]

My guess is that it will randomly choose between one of the rooms. At least I hope so. I don't want this stage to be butchered by a gimmick/hazard too. If transitions are a thing, then hopefully they are smooth and don't mess with the flow of the match too much.

that could be possible i believe that it might move between them maybe by the elevator so it would be smooth.

 

[ryuu seika]

Also, what if walk-offs aren't actually abusable in Smash 4? Is the impossibility to KO the opponent on the down side of the screen really problematic? Air game is important, but it doesn't have to be the defining point of tournaments either. I really would like to see how a pro-fight plays out with a bended gravity.

Bent gravity is a gimmick that Sakurai has clearly not utilised properly. Instead of a slight curve, we should have seen the entirety of Starship Mario or an early planet, for a fully spherical stage. It would have removed the walkoff problem without giving players anywhere to fall but back onto the stage.
Yes, it would hinder horizontal KOs but that would simply relegate it to counterpick territory.

 

[Empyrean]

Bent gravity is a gimmick that Sakurai has clearly not utilised properly. Instead of a slight curve, we should have seen the entirety of Starship Mario or an early planet, for a fully spherical stage. It would have removed the walkoff problem without giving players anywhere to fall but back onto the stage.
Yes, it would hinder horizontal KOs but that would simply relegate it to counterpick territory.

It would simply relegate it to always being banned by players who are facing vertical killers. I doubt that anyone would ever leave it available if that were the case.

However, I do like your idea more than what Sakurai did. It'd be hilarious to see someone just turn in orbit many times at high percents.

 

[Dairz]

Wait- so how big would this spherical stage be? If it was small, then it would feel really weird to fight on a small space. But if it was big, then the camera would always be zoomed out, which wouldn't work well mixed with fighters constantly rotating with gravity. It would also be a bit disorienting, and possibly confusing to play on. I don't think a fully spherical stage would work very well.

 

[ryuu seika]

And you're saying a walkoff flat stage warped to have a curve to it is a better idea?
My way might have problems of its own but atleast it does bring innovation to the table, rather than being a totally uninteresting haven for IC chaingrabs and other abuse.

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

Not that I dislike the perfectly spherical planet idea, but just because it doesn't have walk-offs doesn't make it worse for Ice Climbers. On perfectly spherical stage with Mario Galaxy type gravity, instead of just chaingrabbing off the blastline they'd just chaingrab forever until they decide to use an up-smash. It would be funny to send someone flying around a planet though. Not to mention potentially sending someone flying around the stage and then hitting them again without moving at all would look freaking sick.

I'm very interested to see how the gravity gimmick plays out on the Galaxy stage (And possibly Windy Hill). Because of the way the gravity works, I would assume it buffs characters that are stronger on the ground, since moving through the air on this kind of stage doesn't mean traveling the same distance as they normally would on the ground. Shorter characters could also get buffed by the slope, possibly causing some moves that would normally hit them to miss. It might also affect shield pressure, since the slope may make it easier for attacks to poke through shields.

 

[MasterofMonster]

I hope there's a Super Mario Galaxy stage on the 3DS, as well. Remember, every person has his own screen, so you can easily have it so that you can walk around a sphere planetoid. Would be Epic. XD

 

[ryuu seika]

You make a good point there, the 3DS would allow players to always have an upright view, removing potential disorientation problems.

 

[Zanvel]

What do you think will be the new F-Zero stage?

 

[ryuu seika]

Well, we've had Big Blue, Mute City and Port Town, lets see what else there is:

-Phantom Road is the successor of the original F-Zero Rainbow Road. With Mario Kart's already in, I doubt we'll see a second septichromic racetrack.

-Fire Field, while undeniably memorable, especially as the final challenge of the original game, has its gimmicks in cylinders (not really Smash suitable) and lava. Giving both bounty hunters (a connection Sakurai likes to focus on) the same stage gimmick seems a bad idea.

-Casino Palace is a memorable setting with a unique visual theme but only appeared in GX and is technically part of Mute City. I doubt, therefore, that it would be Sakurai's first choice.

-Sand Ocean is a desert planet shown throughout the series, gaining a lot more life in GX with the introduction of ancient ruins, high tech laser displays and crazy sky eels. Interestingly, we've not seen much desert in Smash yet and, while we've got Gerudo Valley at last, the look and feel of the two would be highly different. Sand Ocean could be a good pick.

-Green Plant takes place at an oxygen farm that was built on one half of Planet Colours, a location previously known as the Devil's Forest in F-Zero X, while its other half is referred to as Death Wind in the first game. Its lack of consistent name/look, along with its tubular gimmick, probably kills its chances of inclusion, despite being somewhat memorable and the home of a major character (Pico).

-Silence featured in the first two main games and the GBA offshoot but, despite good representation, has absolutely nothing going for it. It is plain and grey against a lifeless world that is equally so.

-Red Canyon is a mountainous desert world known for being the planet with the highest number of outlaws and space pirate ambushes. It appears in all 3 main games, albeit only in the story in GX. Samurai Goroh calls it home. It is less visually impressive than Sand Ocean but it does have large story significance.

-White Land is a snow covered zone, not much I can find on this one TBH but its lack of GX inclusion probably hurts it.

-Big Hand/Foot are clearly not serious locations, lets leave them out.

-Lightning is another area just off Mute City, where air pollution has caused constant lightning storms and energy companies have set out to capture and export the electricity it generates. I could potentially see this stage being included but it is a GX exclusive and technically a locale we've seen already.

-Aeropolis is an artificial utopia generated by an intelligent machine known as "Mother-Q". It's memorable but exclusive to GX and a little lacking in wow factor. I doubt we'll see it unless Sakurai wants to use "Dragon Slopes" for a stage with some floaty portions.

-Cosmo Terminal would have some great potential for taking alternative routes each lap, what with its 3 laned, twisty race course but it is only one track in GX, even if it is one of the most ridiculously difficult ones. Its space elevator goodness will not be seen.

-Outer Space is an arcade exclusive (well, almost) space station course. Many players will never even have heard of it. Not going to happen.

Handheld exclusive stages are outside my area of knowledge/interest but that's a summary of all the other locations in the series.

 

[TheEggsAndBacon]

Alright, I've had this idea for a stage swirling around in my head for a while. It's pretty basic but a structure that I believe is unique compared to past stages.

Spoiler: Stage Design (Warning 'tis Large)

The problem I have is finding a theme(I guess that's what you'd call it?) for the stage. I was thinking maybe Forest Maze, but I'm not sure...
Thoughts?

 

[Will]

Things seem slow,so I will present my stage idea :

THE FLAB ZONE - Mario and Luigi : Bowser's Inside Story

As in this picture,I felt it resembled most of what I thought of the stage's possible design.

1. This stage is 3DS exclusive
2. In the photograph,the red platforms are which areas where you can bounce.
3. I DO think it will have a hazard.maybe an enemy designed for that area,like the Meat enemies and the enemy on the right.
4. Finally,I do expect for the outline to be bigger than just what is on the picture,maybe some arches or falling food (This IS Bowser's stomach,after all.)

I hope you can tell me your response to this and feedback. I also hope this photo doesn't get taken down,because then this comment would look silly. I do have other stage ideas for both 3DS and Wii U,just saying.

 

[Metal_Sonic]

Theres one song I hope they include in Dr.Wiley's Castle if were allowed to talk about music in stages.

 

[D-idara]

My guess is that it will randomly choose between one of the rooms. At least I hope so. I don't want this stage to be butchered by a gimmick/hazard too. If transitions are a thing, then hopefully they are smooth and don't mess with the flow of the match too much.

Define 'butchered' :/ If it's annoying gimmicks like Pokemon Stadium 1 & 2 then no, but I wouldn't mind something like water at the bottom of Siebold's stage, or fire pillars shooting at the sides of Malva's stage, maybe variable terrain on Wikstrom's stage and Drasna could be the most plain one, I don't think those hazards would harm competitive play.

I hope there's a Super Mario Galaxy stage on the 3DS, as well. Remember, every person has his own screen, so you can easily have it so that you can walk around a sphere planetoid. Would be Epic. XD

That's the best idea ever!
I personally love the new Elite Four, at least we get a non-generic, actually-memorable place, not to mention, those ****ing amazing visuals and DAT' MOOSAIC!

 

[Empyrean]

Define 'butchered' :/ If it's annoying gimmicks like Pokemon Stadium 1 & 2 then no, but I wouldn't mind something like water at the bottom of Siebold's stage, or fire pillars shooting at the sides of Malva's stage, maybe variable terrain on Wikstrom's stage and Drasna could be the most plain one, I don't think those hazards would harm competitive play.

I was referring to the Pokemon Stadium transformations and the way Pyrosphere could potentially be ruined by hazards/whatever. Minor stuff happening or changes in terrain would be acceptable.

 

[D-idara]

I was referring to the Pokemon Stadium transformations and the way Pyrosphere could potentially be ruined by hazards/whatever. Minor stuff happening or changes in terrain would be acceptable.

Hazards on Pyrosphere would ruin more than just that one stage...
Well, it's the Pokemon League after all, right? It's the maximum test of skill.

 

[Empyrean]

Hazards on Pyrosphere would ruin more than just that one stage...
Well, it's the Pokemon League after all, right? It's the maximum test of skill.

Let's just hope that is the case.

 

[Z1GMA]

A small, competitive Bowser's Castle Stage, please, Sakurai.

words

Cosmo Therminal all day!

Just be careful not get hit big Fat Shark as you fight

 

[ryuu seika]

I doubt that he'd make the cut, sad as it is. He bordered on arcade exclusivity and was only really worth using in that one stage.
Still though, he rocked on Cosmo Terminal.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Some Stage Ideas, without mucn details since I doubt many would bother to read


Samus' Spaceship: Battle on top if it as it flies through space and lands on different planets.

Bowser's Castle: ideas for this are everywhere, haha.

Bowser World: battle on top of Bowser World's tallest Tower. Neon epicness!

Duck Hunt: Retro stage. Pretty small and flat. Every time someone gets KOed, retro Duck Hunt Dog emerges to laugh at you.

Donkey Kong: a more battle-able version of Brawl's Retro DK stage. One Battlefield-sized beam platform, with a almost as long one above it, and one even smaller over that one. Retro DK sometimes appears on the top platform, throwing barrels to the sides, hitting those that gets off stage.

DKCR Silhuette stage: pretty much this: http://i.imgur.com/3kKli0v.png

The Last Metroid: you battle in the area you see on the starting screen for Super Metroid. That blue area with the Baby in a capsule.

NintendoLand: battle on the NintendoLand Tower. Small and with no platforms. Like the Wario Ware stage, you will at times enter random Mini games from NintendoLand.

 

[Skyfox2000]

I have a Stage idea from the Sonic the Hedgehog Universe
Casino Night Zone
1. 3DS Exclusive Stage
2. Stage Hazards (Bumpers, Spikes, Classic Sonic and Tails)
3. You can Play Pinball like Sonic and Tails but watch out cause they will hit you
This is from Sonic Generations 3DS

 

[ryuu seika]

Back on the subject of F-Zero, I personally think that Sand Ocean: Surface Slide is the most likely choice and that, while it would look much better forward scrolling than side scrolling, it would also be more pleasing to weather the initial jump atop the vehicles, rather than on some floating platform like in Mute City or Port Town. This could also provide an interesting dynamic as they slide around during the large, angled curve at the end and maybe we could even get the giant eel on lap 3 to be a hazard for launched players.

 

[Z1GMA]

I doubt that he'd make the cut

I meant as a Stage Hazard if we got a Cosmo Therminal Stage, bro.

 

[Morbi]

The only stage that I cannot wait to play on is the Elite 4 area. It looks really well designed.

I am not really good at speculating on stages though, I have a feeling that we have seen most of them.

 

[MasterofMonster]

The only stage that I cannot wait to play on is the Elite 4 area. It looks really well designed.

I am not really good at speculating on stages though, I have a feeling that we have seen most of them.

Still no new Kirby, StarFox, F-Zero, G&W, Earthbound, Ice Climbers, etc etc at all. And no Fire Emblem on the Wii-U, and no Pikmin, MegaMan, Sonic, etc on the 3DS, etc etc. There's still lots of stages to be seen, don't worry. ^^

 

[Morbi]

Still no new Kirby, StarFox, F-Zero, G&W, Earthbound, Ice Climbers, etc etc at all. And no Fire Emblem on the Wii-U, and no Pikmin, MegaMan, Sonic, etc on the 3DS, etc etc. There's still lots of stages to be seen, don't worry. ^^

As you could probably tell; I am not well-versed in this area. Thank you for the information, I am glad that there is a lot to be seen. I was thinking that we would have the base number of stages, but divided by two (3DS and Wii U). Thus, we would only have the standard amount across both systems. That doesn't seem to be the case though. I can't wait to see the new Star Fox and F-Zero stages, those are always my favorites.

 

[Wolfie557]

a steel diver stage where sometimes you would be underwater with ever so slightly changed physics would be a cool idea


waiting for Metroid(3ds version), starfox and Kirby stages to be shown off.

plus ice climbers -_-.........been waiting since.........ever.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I'm probably going to be really impressed if they can manage to come up with yet another new Ice Climber stage, without taking the easy way out and copying over assets from the original game (like with the Balloon Fight stage).

 

[ryuu seika]

I meant as a Stage Hazard if we got a Cosmo Therminal Stage, bro.

I know but with 30 characters unlocked from the start of GX (yes, you have to buy most of them but still), it seems unlikely that the arcade characters would feature even as hazards.

 

[Sahfarry]

Also, what if walk-offs aren't actually abusable in Smash 4? Is the impossibility to KO the opponent on the down side of the screen really problematic? Air game is important, but it doesn't have to be the defining point of tournaments either. I really would like to see how a pro-fight plays out with a bended gravity.

I'm not too much of a competitive player, and this may be an obvious question, but: what IS the problem with walk-off stages?

What do you think will be the new F-Zero stage?

Big F-Zero fan here, and I want there to be 3 F-Zero stages in Smash 4. This would work because there will be two versions coming out.

• Port Town Aero Dive- This track was impressive. Loved how we just followed the track, and this specific Port Town track from GX is one of my favorites. The track is exactly the same, and that makes me think they just ripped it straight out of GX. The ROBs were pretty cool, as well. Would look pretty in HD.
• Fire Field- Also one that would look good in HD. I don't care which specific track they use because just seeing the flames in the background is enough for me. Memorable place. Probably for the HD version.
• Illusion- Probably the least likely. Ever. I just want it. This would work on the 3DS as I don't think it's ever been on a console game. It appeared in GP Legend and Climax. It's a track with no guard rails and green, techy designs. It would look cool in 3D. HD wouldn't do it justice.

Green Plant and Cosmo Terminal are my second picks.

 

[Sahfarry]

Theoretically, what is your ideal stage list? I made one, and it's pretty long. I want to see other people's.

Spoiler

Super Smash Bros.
· Final Destination
· Battlefield
· Metal Cavern*

Super Mario
· Valley of Bowser (you start out above water. bowser's stone head comes out from under it, and you enter his mouth. you enter the valley of bowser and eventually get into bowser's castle. think Port Town with no stops.)
· Airship
· Subcon
· Rainbow Road
· Starship Mario
· Luigi’s Mansion 2
· Yoshi’s Island*

Donkey Kong
· Snomad Ship
· Angry Aztec
· 50m
· Congo Jungle*

Warioware
· Warioware Inc. 2

Legend of Zelda
· Skyloft
· Temple of Time
· Spirit Train
· Death Mountain
· Hyrule Castle*

Pokemon
· Pokemon Stadium 3
· Lavender Town
· Prism Tower
· Spear Pillar*

Metroid
· Pyrosphere
· Dark Aether
· Norfair*

Kirby
· Shiver Star
· Patch Land
· Fountain of Dreams*
· Halberd*

Star Fox
· Aparoid Homeworld
· Krazoa Palace
· Sector Z*

F-Zero
· Fire Field
· Illusion
· Port Town Aero Dive*

Kid Icarus
· Underworld
· Palutena’s Temple
· Reset Bomb Forest

Pikmin
· The Garden of Hope
· The Forest Navel

Fire Emblem
· Akanea
· Arena Ferox

Earthbound
· Saturn Valley
· Fourside*

Punch-Out!!!
· World Circuit (Boxing Ring, with better name)

Animal Crossing
· Town and City
· Boondox (never been seen in-game. would be cool)

Other
· Flat Zone 3
· Cinchville (Dillon's Rolling Western)
· Icicle Mountain (different. like Brawl's - doesn't move)
· Wii Fit Studio
· Holosseum (Custom Robo)
· Murasame Castle
· Wuhu Island
· Nintendo Land
· Balloon Fight
· Pushmo Park
· Mimin Island (Capt. Rainbow - think Delfino)
· Tomodachi Life Stage
· Find Mii
· Swapnote

3rd Party
· Green Hill Zone
· Starlight Carnival (Sonic Colors)
· Wily Castle
· Metal Man Stage

*returning stages

This is like 66 stages, I know. Just a like of stuff I want

All of the franchises that were included in Smash 64 recieved returning stages. Kirby has such great stages that two returned. Any stage that has the same name to one from the past, and it has no "*", it is a new stage, but with the same name. I wanted to include the Thousand-Year Door, itself, but I felt Mario had enough stages.

Note: I wanted to include stages for Golden sun, Eternal darkness, Sin and punishment, Startropics and Advance Wars, but I haven't played the games.

 

[MasterofMonster]

As you could probably tell; I am not well-versed in this area. Thank you for the information, I am glad that there is a lot to be seen. I was thinking that we would have the base number of stages, but divided by two (3DS and Wii U). Thus, we would only have the standard amount across both systems. That doesn't seem to be the case though. I can't wait to see the new Star Fox and F-Zero stages, those are always my favorites.

Well you're very welcome. There's a lot of obvious stages not revealed that I didn't mention as well, but there's so much franchises to cover so I settled with what I already said. So, yeah, don't worry. XD There will be plenty more. I am honestly surprised there's not a single new DK stage yet, on either version.