Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread

[Amazing Ampharos]

But most people think Skyloft should be legal. And about 1/3 of people think Luigi's Mansion should be legal with another 1/3 willing to test it. For wooly world, about 1/10 of people thought it should be legal while 1/2 were willing to try it out.

I mean, it was a poll that had a significant number of respondants not know which stage called "Yoshi's Island" is known to be in Smash Wii U (and somewhat comically blame you that they didn't know that). I don't have the greatest confidence it will transfer well to action come game launch (about 6 days now!). I want to talk a lot about stages like Skyloft mostly because I think it's helpful to make it clear that these stages are positively valued as opposed to spending all of our time talking about whether Woolly World will be tolerable which it may be even if I have significant doubts myself. In the early Brawl days the stage liberals argued at great length about Onett which honestly never had a chance, and before we knew it, there were tournaments with Halberd and Delfino banned and no one had ever really taken the time to defend more obscure quality stages like Pokemon Stadium 2 or PictoChat anywhere along the way.

Related, the Nova Scotia guys (including Raziek here) put up a few videos of play on smash wii u by actually good players including two Wuhu Island games and one on Mario Circuit. These were from a few days ago so a few of you may have already seen them, but they don't have many views yet so I'm guessing many haven't. Wuhu Island looks like a wonderful stage (I think we see every landing zone between the two games on it, the only even tricky to play one looks like the bridge to me), and Mario Circuit was looking pretty great too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJQDc0YEH9Y

That's one of them; there are two others on that channel. Anyone have any additional thoughts about these stages after seeing them put through a little better action?

EDIT: One of these games also takes place on Windy Hill. Despite how big it looks, kills didn't seem to take that long as the ceiling has a reasonable height and the slope is placed just right for players to seemingly always be "close enough" to either side blast zone if they want to stand in a reasonably defensible position. At least that was what it looked like to me watching a single Lucario vs Robin game there which isn't exactly decisively much data but was a good first look.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Seemed relevant. @:45 gets stuck in a barrel with a Hammer, not sure how quickly they were mashing buttons but they seemed to be stuck for a rather long time for only having 14%. Near the end there's a floor that spawns with multiple barrels, also not sure what happens at the end of the video but no more floors seemed to spawn.

Well, that was an event match. So we have no idea how much special conditions could've effected this...Though, if the stage can stop spawning floors at a certain point for maybe a 30 seconds or so, that could be pretty cool and minimize camping. The barrels I personally don't think are too much of a problem looking at the footage, but we will see.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

So; at a point the floors might just stop spawning? That's fascinating if it can happen in a normal match.

 

[Piford]

Seemed relevant. @:45 gets stuck in a barrel with a Hammer, not sure how quickly they were mashing buttons but they seemed to be stuck for a rather long time for only having 14%. Near the end there's a floor that spawns with multiple barrels, also not sure what happens at the end of the video but no more floors seemed to spawn.

Having the hammer might have made a difference but I doubt it did. It seems to take a large amount of time to escape, although they are extremely easy to avoid.

I mean, it was a poll that had a significant number of respondants not know which stage called "Yoshi's Island" is known to be in Smash Wii U (and somewhat comically blame you that they didn't know that). I don't have the greatest confidence it will transfer well to action come game launch (about 6 days now!). I want to talk a lot about stages like Skyloft mostly because I think it's helpful to make it clear that these stages are positively valued as opposed to spending all of our time talking about whether Woolly World will be tolerable which it may be even if I have significant doubts myself. In the early Brawl days the stage liberals argued at great length about Onett which honestly never had a chance, and before we knew it, there were tournaments with Halberd and Delfino banned and no one had ever really taken the time to defend more obscure quality stages like Pokemon Stadium 2 or PictoChat anywhere along the way.

Related, the Nova Scotia guys (including Raziek here) put up a few videos of play on smash wii u by actually good players including two Wuhu Island games and one on Mario Circuit. These were from a few days ago so a few of you may have already seen them, but they don't have many views yet so I'm guessing many haven't. Wuhu Island looks like a wonderful stage (I think we see every landing zone between the two games on it, the only even tricky to play one looks like the bridge to me), and Mario Circuit was looking pretty great too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJQDc0YEH9Y

That's one of them; there are two others on that channel. Anyone have any additional thoughts about these stages after seeing them put through a little better action?

EDIT: One of these games also takes place on Windy Hill. Despite how big it looks, kills didn't seem to take that long as the ceiling has a reasonable height and the slope is placed just right for players to seemingly always be "close enough" to either side blast zone if they want to stand in a reasonably defensible position. At least that was what it looked like to me watching a single Lucario vs Robin game there which isn't exactly decisively much data but was a good first look.

The thing about talking about Wooly World vs Skyloft here is that we all know skyloft is legal. On other places like the subreddit thats where the defending of more obviously legal stages need to take place. Hopefully @ LiteralGrill can get the subreddit to agree to a liberal stage list. Also, for Yoshi's Island, while there probably were some people confused, a lot of people also voted Skyworld to be tested so maybe there are just people who think it can actually work.

And I'll definitely be checking out those videos as soon as I can.

 

[MeleeMario64]

I'm gonna say it now:Battlefield,Final Destination,Omega Stages,and Yoshi's Island(Brawl)are for sure legal.
I'm somewhat on the fence about Arena Ferox,Tortimer Island,and Prism Tower,because everyone brings up good counter-arguements.But I've had times on Ferox where I got the red lightning,and the stage layout made a Cave of Life,so there's that.
From the moment I saw them in the Direct,I knew Wily Castle and Find Mii were banned.WAAAAAY too intrusive for my tastes.
What's interesting is that when I play Melee & Brawl,I'll sometimes play on Tournament banned stages,like Jungle Japes,Big Blue,even the dreaded 75M!...but not Rumble Falls,Lord,what an awful stage.
With 3DS,I can't say the same.Unova Pokemon League,Spirit Train,several others-they all have something about them that makes me not want to go back there.That's why 9/10 times I Omega Mode everything.
So,in conclusion,this game will have probably even less legal stages than Melee does,and will be viewed as competitively inferior to Melee.I only wish you could disable hazards.One can only dream...

 

[LiteralGrill]

Hopefully @ LiteralGrill can get the subreddit to agree to a liberal stage list.

We probably have quite a larger stagelist then most on the 3DS. We can hope to do the same on the Wii U. Hopefully when I get the game at midnight we can unlock everything fast and get to looking at stages.

 

[Piford]

We probably have quite a larger stage list then most on the 3DS. We can hope to do the same on the Wii U. Hopefully when I get the game at midnight we can unlock everything fast and get to looking at stages.

So events are definitely how you unlock PS2, Smashville, and Congo Jungle 64. We don't know how to unlock Flatzone 2, Duck Hunt, and Pac-land, but events are still probably your best bet.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

What Croi did at the end is going to add a lot of fuel to the conserv fire, but at least it didn't save Raziek.

 

[Piford]

What Croi did at the end is going to add a lot of fuel to the conserv fire, but at least it didn't save Raziek.

Which part? I assume its something to do with Mario Circuit saving him? To be fair, they were clearly not focusing the background on where to aim there kill attacks.

 

[Slyphoria]

Andre answered my question about mashing out of Nabbit's bag! (And also completely screwed up the pronunciation of my username. It's Sly + Euphoria.)

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Eh; at this point I considered NSMBU a lost cause, but if you have trouble shaking out of the bag at 60%, then it's a big nope.

 

[Piford]

Yeah Mushroom Kingdom U had just enough problems before nabbit to be kinda sketchy, but nabbit really pushes it over.

 

[---]

What Croi did at the end is going to add a lot of fuel to the conserv fire, but at least it didn't save Raziek.

Hazards are surprisingly not that bad, but I still don't like what I saw at the end.

 

[Piford]

Hazards are surprisingly not that bad, but I still don't like what I saw at the end.

Mario Circuit should be fine. Lucario was clearly more prepared for the stage than Robin was, which made it a really smart CP on his part. I think the stage will get better the more people learn, prepare, and adjust to it.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I had to pause to think about what you guys meant about the part at the end before I realized it was Lucario teching the wall to live. I actually really liked that part as Croi had been exercising really great stage control for a long time near the end of that match, and he was using it to make sure that his own hits wouldn't be impeded by the wall while Raziek would have little choice but to hit toward it. That directly paid off as Croi had no real issue building damage quickly and scoring KOs when it was time while he was able to stretch his own stock as far as it could go. I saw him integrating a lot of good fundamental gameplay ideas with the stage geography there to make the win as decisive as possible, and it was pretty much what I always like to see in these kinds of games.

 

[Piford]

So the guy who was Gannondorf said Wuhu Island and Pilot Wings are great stages, and Mario Circuit has a lot of walls.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Always trust a Ganondorf. When they say a stage is good; it needs to be framed in gold.

 

[smashmachine]

So the guy who was Gannondorf said Wuhu Island and Pilot Wings are great stages, and Mario Circuit has a lot of walls.

...

 

[Piford]

...

Is there a problem?

 

[san.]

Is there a problem?

You are GANNON-BANNED mostly. He was just nitpicking the spelling.

 

[Piford]

What why is it spelt ganon? Have I been pronouncing it wrong this entire time?

 

[guedes the brawler]

What why is it spelt ganon? Have I been pronouncing it wrong this entire time?

yep

Ganon
Ganondorf.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Windy Hill Zone looks WAY too big. Those guys could have picked different characters and seriously abused that size way more. I don't think that's going to be okay outside of doubles.

But on that note, the subreddit TOs have been trying to work out a stagelist for a big smash wii u extravaganza we plan to host the Sunday after release. This is what we have thus far. It's not FLSS but it's what we could make work for now. However we have been discussing the starter list and figure Duck Hunt/Final Destination and Lylat Cruise/ Pilot Wings may be a bit similar to keep both on and have been wondering if some more dynamic stages could be used and have them moved around. Castle Siege, Delphino Plaza, and Pokemon Stadium 2 (hazard dependent) were discussed as alternatives. Thoughts on the list in general?

(It even has stages we plan on testing in another science event.)

 

[Piford]

Windy Hill Zone looks WAY too big. Those guys could have picked different characters and seriously abused that size way more. I don't think that's going to be okay outside of doubles.

Which characters? The death percents were similar to a match they had on Brinstar with the same build and characters in another video.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Which characters? The death percents were similar to a match they had on Brinstar with the same build and characters in another video.

Anyone who is fast, can run away, and spam up a projectile a bit. That stage seriously looks big enough to make runaway an issue (think of Hyrule Castle in N64 big and problematic). Just because those two went in on the fight doesn't mean the stage is okay. None of them really tried to camp it hard.

 

[Piford]

Anyone who is fast, can run away, and spam up a projectile a bit. That stage seriously looks big enough to make runaway an issue (think of Hyrule Castle in N64 big and problematic). Just because those two went in on the fight doesn't mean the stage is okay. None of them really tried to camp it hard.

But in hyrule castle theres walls and ceiling to get in your way, in this theres only 3 platforms and the windmill, which pulls you into the blast zone making it hard to camp.

 

[LiteralGrill]

But in hyrule castle theres walls and ceiling to get in your way, in this theres only 3 platforms and the windmill, which pulls you into the blast zone making it hard to camp.

I still honestly feel the stage looks far too large and could end up with bad campy matches happening on it. We wont know till we can get the game to test it, but I'm not hopeful.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Windy Hill Zone looks WAY too big. Those guys could have picked different characters and seriously abused that size way more. I don't think that's going to be okay outside of doubles.

But on that note, the subreddit TOs have been trying to work out a stagelist for a big smash wii u extravaganza we plan to host the Sunday after release. This is what we have thus far. It's not FLSS but it's what we could make work for now. However we have been discussing the starter list and figure Duck Hunt/Final Destination and Lylat Cruise/ Pilot Wings may be a bit similar to keep both on and have been wondering if some more dynamic stages could be used and have them moved around. Castle Siege, Delphino Plaza, and Pokemon Stadium 2 (hazard dependent) were discussed as alternatives. Thoughts on the list in general?

(It even has stages we plan on testing in another science event.)

Aw come on man; you guys could've at least put Wrecking Crew on the questionable list.

 

[Piford]

But on that note, the subreddit TOs have been trying to work out a stagelist for a big smash wii u extravaganza we plan to host the Sunday after release. This is what we have thus far. It's not FLSS but it's what we could make work for now. However we have been discussing the starter list and figure Duck Hunt/Final Destination and Lylat Cruise/ Pilot Wings may be a bit similar to keep both on and have been wondering if some more dynamic stages could be used and have them moved around. Castle Siege, Delphino Plaza, and Pokemon Stadium 2 (hazard dependent) were discussed as alternatives. Thoughts on the list in general?

(It even has stages we plan on testing in another science event.)

In terms of the stage list (did you edit that post or am I just blind?)

I'd add Castle Siege and Skyloft to the starter list.
Based on those Nova Scotia battles, Halberd's hazards still have a tough time mattering without user input.
I'd go Coliseum over Wii Fit Studio at least until the game is out. Coliseum's platforms coming in and out of the ground instead much better than Wii Fit Studio's coming in and out of the ceiling
Orbital Gate Assault is much better than Mario Circuit (Wii U), but I still want to see both legal.
I'd write Kongo Jungle 64, as thats its official name now.
With all changes that benefit Pokemon Stadium 2, I don't really think its questionable; I think it's definitely legal. The only problem is to convince the haters of the stage from brawl.
Edit: I'd also add Luigi's mansion to stages to test.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Aw come on man; you guys could've at least put Wrecking Crew on the questionable list.

I actually thought I was missing one I wanted to look at. I can add it there.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Ok guys, so I'm running this tournament at my school and we will unfortunately have to deal with a lot of salty casuals if our stagelist is too liberal, and we don't know how to incorporate Omega Stages into our random stage select lineup (I don't like it, but we are doing that in the interest of time)

For a semi-conservative stagelist what would you guys recommend?
These stages are legal already, any others that are good enough to not get casuals to waste our time with complaints?:
-Final Destination and all Omega (Final Destination) forms
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Town and City
-Lylat Cruise

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Deal with salty casuals. If they complain tell them it's for the sake of science.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Ok guys, so I'm running this tournament at my school and we will unfortunately have to deal with a lot of salty casuals if our stagelist is too liberal, and we don't know how to incorporate Omega Stages into our random stage select lineup (I don't like it, but we are doing that in the interest of time)

For a semi-conservative stagelist what would you guys recommend?
These stages are legal already, any others that are good enough to not get casuals to waste our time with complaints?:
-Final Destination and all Omega (Final Destination) forms
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Town and City
-Lylat Cruise

Summoning @ Piford too.

If you have the time I'd actually suggest putting up a survey on Google Docs or some other site and distributing the link online. List a bunch of stages and for each ask if they would enjoy playing on it, binary yes/no response. Include all stages with > 50% positive reception.

If you want a list to make sure you don't forget anything I use this site.

Aiming specifically at the "salty casual" crowd (as you call it), I'd consider the following stages in particular:

• Big Battlefield
• Duck Hunt
• Coliseum
• Wii Fit Studio
• Wuhu Island
• Skyloft
• Mario Galaxy
• Delfino Plaza
• Castle Siege
• Wooly World

None of these stages can directly hurt the player unless they're left behind on the transforming ones. A fair few are on the larger side, which may or may not be an issue for your group. I'm sure there's little chance of everything on that list working out, but if you have the time it may be worth doing that survey thing and getting a feel for public opinion. Also if possible, ask why the disliked stages are disliked, but that's more down to my own desire for data.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Summoning @ Piford too.

If you have the time I'd actually suggest putting up a survey on Google Docs or some other site and distributing the link online. List a bunch of stages and for each ask if they would enjoy playing on it, binary yes/no response. Include all stages with > 50% positive reception.

If you want a list to make sure you don't forget anything I use this site.

Aiming specifically at the "salty casual" crowd (as you call it), I'd consider the following stages in particular:

• Big Battlefield
• Duck Hunt
• Coliseum
• Wii Fit Studio
• Wuhu Island
• Skyloft
• Mario Galaxy
• Delfino Plaza
• Castle Siege
• Wooly World

None of these stages can directly hurt the player unless they're left behind on the transforming ones. A fair few are on the larger side, which may or may not be an issue for your group. I'm sure there's little chance of everything on that list working out, but if you have the time it may be worth doing that survey thing and getting a feel for public opinion. Also if possible, ask why the disliked stages are disliked, but that's more down to my own desire for data.

Thanks for taking the time to reply man

Yeah from that list it looks like a bunch of those stages could make it, I doubt the walkoffs will though, considering how it's iffy in true competitive as well. If I allowed these I'm pretty sure most of the competent players in our school will abuse the "Back Throw off the side" tactic.

I'll consider these stages:
Big Battlefield
Duck Hunt
Wuhu Island
Skyloft (Is there a video showcasing all "landing sites" yet?)
Castle Siege
Wooly World (Might screw over a lot of characters but I'll need to get a feel for it myself)

Also considering Kongo Jungle 64 and Windy Hill

Thanks for your input again, making rules for a game that hasn't come out yet is pretty difficult. I'll try to make a survey as well

 

[Nintendrone]

Ok guys, so I'm running this tournament at my school and we will unfortunately have to deal with a lot of salty casuals if our stagelist is too liberal, and we don't know how to incorporate Omega Stages into our random stage select lineup (I don't like it, but we are doing that in the interest of time)

For a semi-conservative stagelist what would you guys recommend?
These stages are legal already, any others that are good enough to not get casuals to waste our time with complaints?:
-Final Destination and all Omega (Final Destination) forms
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Town and City
-Lylat Cruise

Yeah, that list is ridiculously conservative. I'm assuming damaging hazards are what makes those guys most salty. Let me list some suggestions that your attendants should tolerate:

• Big Battlefield (It's only "problem" is size, but it has a different platform layout)
• Delfino Plaza (No hazards, has minor temporary walkoffs)
• Kongo Jungle 64 (No hurtful hazards, has unique platforms, barrel shouldn't really be an issue)
• Skyloft (see Delfino)
• Halberd (Minor walkoff for like 10 sec at start, slow telegraphed hazards)
• Orbital Gate Assault (Changing layout isn't bad, minor predictable hazards on timer)
• Castle Siege (No hurtful hazards, temp walkoffs)
• Duck Hunt (player-controlled appearing platform, slightly big)
• Pilotwings (Tilts like Lylat, minor layout switch on timer, hazards appear offstage on timer for literally a couple secs)
• Wuhu Island (see Delfino)

I'm unsure of Windy Hill; it's pretty big for singles, has minor hazards. As for Omegas, I say ignore them. There is no time-efficient way to have them randomly selected, imo. They are all reskinned FDs, and you have FD already. I feel that the walled ones aren't distinct enough for their slot, anyways.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Yeah, that list is ridiculously conservative. I'm assuming damaging hazards are what makes those guys most salty. Let me list some suggestions that your attendants should tolerate:

• Big Battlefield (It's only "problem" is size, but it has a different platform layout)
• Delfino Plaza (No hazards, has minor temporary walkoffs)
• Kongo Jungle 64 (No hurtful hazards, has unique platforms, barrel shouldn't really be an issue)
• Skyloft (see Delfino)
• Halberd (Minor walkoff for like 10 sec at start, slow telegraphed hazards)
• Orbital Gate Assault (Changing layout isn't bad, minor predictable hazards on timer)
• Castle Siege (No hurtful hazards, temp walkoffs)
• Duck Hunt (player-controlled appearing platform, slightly big)
• Pilotwings (Tilts like Lylat, minor layout switch on timer, hazards appear offstage on timer for literally a couple secs)
• Wuhu Island (see Delfino)

As for Omegas, I say ignore them. There is no time-efficient way to have them randomly selected, imo. They are all reskinned FDs, and you have FD already. I feel that the walled ones aren't distinct enough for their slot, anyways.

Thanks for the constructive criticism and suggestions!

Out of those stages I'd be willing to keep

• Kongo Jungle 64
• Skyloft
• Castle Siege
• Duck Hunt
• Pilotwings
• Wuhu Island

I think Big Battlefield is too big for 1v1s later on during the tourney, Delfino Plaza has one transformation with the pillars that greatly benefits some characters over others, Halberd has some hazards that will get some guys on my case, and Orbital is really beneficial to characters with good air game.

Also, is there a video with all the transformations for Skyloft? And can I get an opinion (positive and negative) on Wooly World?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Thanks for the constructive criticism and suggestions!

Out of those stages I'd be willing to keep

• Kongo Jungle 64
• Skyloft
• Castle Siege
• Duck Hunt
• Pilotwings
• Wuhu Island

I think Big Battlefield is too big for 1v1s later on during the tourney, Delfino Plaza has one transformation with the pillars that greatly benefits some characters over others, Halberd has some hazards that will get some guys on my case, and Orbital is really beneficial to characters with good air game.

Also, is there a video with all the transformations for Skyloft? And can I get an opinion (positive and negative) on Wooly World?

I don't think a video for Skyloft exists, although there are a pair of videos from Nova Scotia that show most if not all of Wuhu Island between the two. I doubt Skyloft will be any worse, it's basically the exact same concept.

Honestly the best thing I can say about Woolly World is that the stage can't hurt you. It's big, it has a walkoff, and the platforms are in a very unorthodox layout. That said, the walkoff can't be camped effectively because it's not there all the time and the platforms are defensible so you'll have a bad time if you wait until the last minute to get on, and again the stage itself isn't harmful (unless you miss the warning that the floor is about to vanish but that comes pretty far in advance) so it's 100% a test of player vs. player.

EDIT: Video 1 and Video 2.

 

[SpaceJell0]

I don't think a video for Skyloft exists, although there are a pair of videos from Nova Scotia that show most if not all of Wuhu Island between the two. I doubt Skyloft will be any worse, it's basically the exact same concept.

Honestly the best thing I can say about Woolly World is that the stage can't hurt you. It's big, it has a walkoff, and the platforms are in a very unorthodox layout. That said, the walkoff can't be camped effectively because it's not there all the time and the platforms are defensible so you'll have a bad time if you wait until the last minute to get on, and again the stage itself isn't harmful (unless you miss the warning that the floor is about to vanish but that comes pretty far in advance) so it's 100% a test of player vs. player.

EDIT: Video 1 and Video 2.

The thing is, it has a very similar layout to Gaur Plain which is criticized for the layout itself in addition to the walkoff. What happens if someone is Little Mac on that stage? I don't want any characters to feel like they're at a disadvantage

 

[Nintendrone]

Thanks for the constructive criticism and suggestions!

Out of those stages I'd be willing to keep

• Kongo Jungle 64
• Skyloft
• Castle Siege
• Duck Hunt
• Pilotwings
• Wuhu Island

I think Big Battlefield is too big for 1v1s later on during the tourney, Delfino Plaza has one transformation with the pillars that greatly benefits some characters over others, Halberd has some hazards that will get some guys on my case, and Orbital is really beneficial to characters with good air game.

Also, is there a video with all the transformations for Skyloft? And can I get an opinion (positive and negative) on Wooly World?

I'm surprised you left out Delfino but kept Wuhu, as Wuhu has the bridge and fountain which I feel are worse than Delfino's pillars. I think that Delfino is the superior tour stage.

For Halberd, although the hazards hit kinda hard, they are slow and give ample warning. You'd either have to be stupid or outplayed and knocked into it if you were to get hit by them, which should be acceptable.

For Skyloft, I don't know of such a vid, but ssbwiki.com should have pics of them all on its Skyloft page.

Woolly World is weird, having an odd mix of weight-sensitive platform layout, somewhat big size, and a walkoff 50% of the time. I'm perfectly fine with it, but didn't include it since I thought your audience would dislike it.

EDIT: Mac is bad on most stages. Don't feel a need to compensate for his intentional, well-known weakness. If you pick him, you're responsible for picking a risky character. Mac likes Woolly World's walkoff anyway.

 

[SpaceJell0]

I'm surprised you left out Delfino but kept Wuhu, as Wuhu has the bridge and fountain which I feel are worse than Delfino's pillars. I think that Delfino is the superior tour stage.

For Halberd, although the hazards hit kinda hard, they are slow and give ample warning. You'd either have to be stupid or outplayed and knocked into it if you were to get hit by them, which should be acceptable.

For Skyloft, I don't know of such a vid, but ssbwiki.com should have pics of them all on its Skyloft page.

Woolly World is weird, having an odd mix of weight-sensitive platform layout, somewhat big size, and a walkoff 50% of the time. I'm perfectly fine with it, but didn't include it since I thought your audience would dislike it.

You make a good point with Delfino, I'll include it as well, same with Halberd.

Deal with salty casuals. If they complain tell them it's for the sake of science.

I know that but it's the fact that their complaining will waste time is what the problem is as some players are arrogant. This happened to me at last year's tourney with Brawl so I want to avoid casuals wasting the tourney's limited time.