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Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread

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Raziek

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Hi! This ended up getting stickied, so discuss stages here.

My preliminary opinions on the Wii U stagelist can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/page-39#post-17985775

And here is a good post by @Amazing Ampharos on the stagelist:

http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/page-32#post-17938327

For posterity, my local region's 3DS stagelist ended up working out to:

Battlefield
Final Destination (and Omegas)
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life
Brinstar
Rainbow Road

[collapse="Old OP"]Okay, so @ #HBC | Ryker #HBC | Ryker and I just finished running through all the stages we currently have unlocked. Here's what we came up with.

Legal

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island Brawl

AC Island – Boat seems pretty predictable and unobtrusive. Random layout possibly of small concern, need to research how much it varies.

Lumiose City Gym – Starts with initial walk-off. Platform comes in at 8 seconds and leaves 5 seconds later. Visual warnings when platforms leave or change and you can't die off the top when platforms leave. Full cycles ~2 min. 4 transitions total. Only one set of stages (no variation a la Delphino).

Phase 1
Ground with walkoff. Platform appears at 8. Leaves at 10.

Phase 2
Arrives at 15. Observation deck leaves at 30 seconds.

Phase 3
Four plat set-up at 40 seconds. Leaves at 52 seconds.

Phase 4
1:05 metal platform setup. 3 plats. 1:20 leaves to night sky transitions

Phase 5
Night Sky transition leaves at 1:45. Landing back on ground 1:55.

Consistently loop, non-intrusive.

Arena Ferox –Starts with med sized flat stage henceforth called neutral transformation. First trans 10 seconds. 3 plats on statues like castle siege. They are breakable. 40 seconds leaves trans 1. 45 goes to neutral. 50 sec goes to rotating plats with a solid plat in the middle. 1:30 collapses to neutral. 1:40 sec goes to 4 plat layout with a three unbreakable/unpassable walls. 2:20 back to neutral. 2:30 4 plats with small solid wall in the middle on the ground. Breakable plats. Cannot die off top with platforms leaving. 3:10 goes to neutral. 3:20 heads back to first trans.

Order of stage is NOT SET. Cycle will go transition into neutral into transition, but the order of which transition does not follow any known pattern and will change the order of the second cycle as soon as all transitions have been seen. Works like Pokemon Stadium in every aspect we can see.

Arena Ferox is basically this game's PS1. I don't think the transition with the blocked platforms is intrusive enough to be an actual problem, tbh. No moreso than PS1 was.

Reset Bomb Forest - Trans at 55 when meteor comes down. 3 sets of destructible platforms that cannot be passed through. 12 damage creature comes across the bottom. Creature comes in from right at 15 seconds after trans and then spends 15 seconds crossing the screen. He is then gone for another 15 seconds. Then he returns crossing left to right instead and taking another 15 seconds. Kills at about Brinstar acid to eyeball it. Transitions back to first at 2:10 as creature returns to right side.

Creature side of origin varies.

Brinstar – Same as Brawl, but sharking should be mitigated.

Questionable

Tomodachi Life – Suspect circle-camp, very visually jarring. Would personally say no.
Gaur Plains – Potential circle camp, sharking, walk-off camping.
Distant Planet – Essentially the same as Brawl. Same problems with Rain, camping, walk-off and Bulborb.
Corneria – Walls not as abusive as previous. Possible, but gross.
Jungle Japes – Differnt klaptrap starts, but still on 10 second timer. Water is super strong. Holy ****.
Paper Mario – 3 transisitons. 2:30 seconds for a full cycle. Needs further examination.
Mario 3D World – Scroller with a minimal hazard 3/4 way through. Requires further research.

Hella-Banned

Wily's Castle – Yellow Devil single-handedly ruins this stage.
Find Mii – Ultimate Ghost attacking ruins this stage too. Far far too disruptive.
Nintendogs – Constant falling disruptive debris. Walk-offs. Potential run-away.
Punch-out – Far too easy to camp the lights. Even though you can knock them down, they only stay down for 5 seconds. Air-camping would be far too strong.
Wario-ware – Star + Super Shroom. Banned.
N's Castle – Tried so hard, but hell no. Zekrom and Reshiram are bad news. Stairs can kill as they come in.
Magicant (Earthbound Stage) – Birdman is too strong a friend. So much bro.
Spirit Tracks – Big Blue 2.
Gerudo Valley – Bridge of Eldin, but worse.
Mushroomy Kingdom – Same as Brawl. Please go away.
Green Hill Zone – Still destructible. Still walk-offs. Still a mean stage hazard.
Rainbow Road – Single plat start. Lands at 10 secs. Trans is plats over open hole. 7:35 trans to neutral. Track deals 15 damage when moving. Periods when no track beneath stage. Landed at 6:50. Cars do 10 each. 6:25 next trans. 2 plats. Grabbable ledge. Leaves at 6:10 with nice big arrow. 6:00 next stage. Flat moon area. Cars come in like flat area of port town aero dive. Leaves at 5:45. 5:35 tubes where you can hit wall. Ground rotates and cars from the back. Leaves at 5:15. Finishes 4:55. Like Port Town, has multiple stop routes. Track kills off top ~100.

Cars too obtrusive. Some transitions garbage.

New Super Mario Brothers – Walk-offs and scrolling. Coins do something? Can't tell what turning gold does.

Pictochat – BAAAAAAAANNED. :<

Balloon Fight - Awful. Water is dangerous and intrusive. Bumpers. Layout is bad. Walk-offs.

Conclusions

Overall, I do not have high hopes for having a sizeable stagelist in the 3DS version. We don't have everything unlocked yet, but the number of quality stages is prettttty small.
[/collapse]
 
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Mamp

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Personally, I think Prism Tower and Arena Ferox are fine as counterpicks, but I'd be against Reset Bomb Forest; the platform layout on the second stage is really weird, and the creature that shows up looks really disruptive, and it does a lot of damage. Brinstar, Corneria, Tomodachi, and Paper Mario warrant testing, but I think they will all probably be banned.
 

Raziek

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I'd disagree on the creature being disruptive. He stays below the action the entire time. He only does 12%, that's not exactly a ton.
 

Mamp

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I'd disagree on the creature being disruptive. He stays below the action the entire time. He only does 12%, that's not exactly a ton.
Upon rewatching a few videos of the stage, I've changed my mind; the creature is a lot less disruptive than I had thought. It's not game breaking, but it is still an issue. However, the platform layout is still janky, and looks like it might promote camping to an extent. This one should probably be tested, but I wouldn't mind it as a counterpick.
 

Shaya

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I think without the likes of chaingrabs, I think stages with walk offs take away two (or three) competitive smash tenants.

1. Off Stage Play
2. Ledge Play
3. Detracting from Center Stage dominance

Which beyond the whole opinions on what/who/how determining what competitive smash is, generally detracts enough from game play that is preferred.
 
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I think without the likes of chaingrabs, I think stages with walk offs take away two (or three) competitive smash tenants.

1. Off Stage Play
2. Ledge Play
3. Detracting from Center Stage dominance

Which beyond the whole opinions on what/who/how determining what competitive smash is, generally detracts enough from game play that is preferred.
Yeah, that's fair. I just wanted to ask the question to make sure people were thinking about it instead of just banning them for traditions' sake.

I like having ledges myself anyway.
 

Shaya

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Yeah, that's fair. I just wanted to ask the question to make sure people were thinking about it instead of just banning them for traditions' sake.

I like having ledges myself anyway.
Hmm, some people's stances right now are "Start small -> expand", but I'm not sure how likely that is to work out. When it comes to what stages should be properly legal/banned, I think we need a bit more time, but past experiences will likely be a swaying force for people's opinions (which can often be dangerous, but that's how things go as you know).

Glad to see you around again though. I hope my character is still actually 2nd3rd4th best (hopefully not last) in the game :p
 
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I hope my character is still actually 2nd3rd4th best (hopefully not last) in the game :p
I take no pleasure in saying I don't think it looks good for Marth. Lucina seems better. But man it's still way to early to say anything for sure.
 
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Raijinken

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I vote starting wide and then contracting (easier than starting small and expanding, at least judging by past games). As for the information compiled above, turning gold at 100 coins makes you immune to knockback and improves your own knockback output. Too strong of a gimmick to allow.

The biggest strike against Paper Mario would probably be the fan changing hit physics for a while, but if that's not too big of an issue, then everything else I've seen so far looks reasonable as a border case or counter pick.
 

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Are there any hazards in Paper Mario or is it just a transitioning?
That stage's music really makes me want it to be competitively viable.
 

ParanoidDrone

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Are there any hazards in Paper Mario or is it just a transitioning?
That stage's music really makes me want it to be competitively viable.
Paper Mario has hazards but only the final transformation on Bowser's Castle is really questionable if you ask me. The rotating Bowser head is weird.
 

Starbound

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Paper Mario also has walls on the grass and boat formations. They're little walls though, so they might not be very abusive.
 

ParanoidDrone

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Also, I forgot to mention this because reasons, but I don't think it's possible to circle camp Tomodachi Life. All the platforms are pass through.
 

infomon

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I think without the likes of chaingrabs, I think stages with walk offs take away two (or three) competitive smash tenants.

1. Off Stage Play
2. Ledge Play
3. Detracting from Center Stage dominance

Which beyond the whole opinions on what/who/how determining what competitive smash is, generally detracts enough from game play that is preferred.
I don't think those are especially good reasons. We have enough walk-off stages to suggest that off-stage and ledge play are not tenants of smash itself.

If we ban walk-offs (and I agree we probably have to), we need to demonstrate why competitive play is prohibitively degenerate / impossible in their presence. We need videos so that outside observers know that we're not banning this out of preference, we need to prove to casuals / semi-competitives that we're not scrubs.

I think the reason to ban walk-offs is that an inferior player can tip the odds substantially toward 50-50 by obtaining a small lead and then camping near the edge. Now the dominance of the better player, ordinarily established over many micro-battles, is reduced to a very small number of trades near the edge. Then being near the edge is degenerate, because the 3-stock match becomes three rock-paper-scissors exchanges that do not assert dominance by the better player.

This is not necessarily true in smash 4. It remains to be proven, although I doubt anyone will invest the time to do so. What if standing by the edge is an inferior position, even for the worse player? If most characters have projectiles that make it difficult for the inferior player to camp the edge, then there's no problem. Competitive play would not degenerate to walkoff-edge control, and we should allow these stages.

Temporary walk-offs? Those are fine, depending on how temporary they are. The better player can simply avoid approaching the edge during those times.
 
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Raziek

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I think the reason to ban walk-offs is that an inferior player can tip the odds substantially toward 50-50 by obtaining a small lead and then camping near the edge. Now the dominance of the better player, ordinarily established over many micro-battles, is reduced to a very small number of trades near the edge. Then being near the edge is degenerate, because the 3-stock match becomes three rock-paper-scissors exchanges that do not assert dominance by the better player.

This is not necessarily true in smash 4. It remains to be proven, although I doubt anyone will invest the time to do so. What if standing by the edge is an inferior position, even for the worse player? If most characters have projectiles that make it difficult for the inferior player to camp the edge, then there's no problem. Competitive play would not degenerate to walkoff-edge control, and we should allow these stages.

Temporary walk-offs? Those are fine, depending on how temporary they are. The better player can simply avoid approaching the edge during those times.
This is pretty much already going to be true, just from play. The risk-reward ratios in these cases didn't really change at all, and I don't think allowing walk-offs would really allow you to salvage any questionable stages anyway. Really only maybe Paper Mario or 3D World.
 

ParanoidDrone

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This is pretty much already going to be true, just from play. The risk-reward ratios in these cases didn't really change at all, and I don't think allowing walk-offs would really allow you to salvage any questionable stages anyway. Really only maybe Paper Mario or 3D World.
I don't have any real stake in the argument either way, but if if this is the case then why not go the extra mile to prove it? That way when people ask why walkoffs are banned we can point to empirical data that says "this is what happens when they're allowed" instead of basing it off of, frankly, assumptions. (EDIT: By which I mean let them be allowed and if it's still abusable then go ahead and ban them. But don't assume that because they were abusable in Brawl and Melee that they're still abusable in 4.)
 
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Raziek

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I mean if competitive players from Brawl are playing the game and those stages, and saying that those things are still true (like myself and others), what more 'proof' do you need? Like, that's essentially 'proof of play'.
 

infomon

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I mean if competitive players from Brawl are playing the game and those stages, and saying that those things are still true (like myself and others), what more 'proof' do you need? Like, that's essentially 'proof of play'.
Well, videos would be nice. We never really got any from the early Brawl game, either; again it was a "trust us" argument.

Also, Smash4 is a different game with different matchups. The character matchup does determine the viability of walkoff-degenerance. I'd love to see a Sonic try to camp the edge vs. Megaman or Villager; good luck! So if there are specific matchups that are overpowered by this tactic, let's see what they are.

Edit:
I mean if competitive players from Brawl are playing the game and those stages
I've been watching a lot of streams, and very rarely are people playing not-Omega. They've only had the game a few days, most people don't have it at all, and people are generally more interesting in exploring the characters rather than the stages at this point.
 
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L9999

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I guess we will stick with Final Destination, Battlefield, Yoshi Island, Arena Ferox, Prism Tower, Tortimer Island( it's tamable) ande the Omega forms with all have different layouts.
 

Pkjoan

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I could see Paper Mario stage getting banned because:

-Phase 1 has a strong wing inpossible to fight back
-Phase 3 has 3 platforms and 2 move vertically while one rotates, no main flat platform
 

Second Power

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Is there some official criteria we use for stage legality? I feel like getting everyone on the same page should be step 1.
 

Raziek

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There has never been one, and will never be one, because of conflicting values on what makes a legal stage.

Some people insist hazards are unacceptable and want things to be as static as possible.

Others accept that as part of what makes Smash 'Smash'.
 

Second Power

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That doesn't surprise me at all.

How's the new F-Zero stage looking if anyone knows?
 

ParanoidDrone

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That doesn't surprise me at all.

How's the new F-Zero stage looking if anyone knows?
From watching video and streams, it's surprisingly sedate considering it's an F-Zero stage. That said, there's still a hazard. There are two platforms at slightly different heights on either side of the Blue Falcon as it races around the track. The Blue Falcon itself serves as a third platform. Occasionally another racer shows up as well. The racetrack itself is a hazard and will launch you vertically if you touch it.

Other than the damaging floor, the most unusual feature is that none of the platforms are big enough to feasibly be a "main" platform.
 
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I was worried about the Reset Bomb stage....
Good to see it checks out just fine. Although, any stage that doesn't check out can simply be played in the Final Destination format~ <3
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Raz and I have unlocked both Gameboy Dreamland and SNES F-Zero and will look at them at some point tonight.

I also discovered we were wrong on AC Island because it has another hazard in the form of a shark that can appear in the water. It didn't SEEM too bad, but I'll look further into it tonight at some point.

And eventually we need to research the difference in FD variants because the underside of each of them looks different which could be a major thing in counter picking.

EDIT: We also got "lol pacmaze" but don't hold your breath.
 
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Mamp

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All the Final Destinations basically fall into two categories: those that float, like Battlefield, and those that have walls, like Yoshi's Island. There are some minor differences in terms of blast zones (Tomodachi Life seems to have a low ceiling, for example), but other than that, they're all pretty much the same. I think all the Final Destinations should be placed into one of these categories, and then the categories should be treated as one stage.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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On a personal note: I'm a little sad with the number of stages we have, but I am happy it was more than I feared. I was terrified we weren't going to have ANYTHING.

I am also extremely sad that Pictochat 2 had more horrendous transitions than the first time I played it. Maaaaaaaaan, I was so excited.

N's Castle, Wily's Castle, Find Mii, and Magicant all being ruined by assault from the stage when they are assaulted by another castle is equally disappointing. Magicant especially because the nostalgia scenes from Mother games are awesome.

All the Final Destinations basically fall into two categories: those that float, like Battlefield, and those that have walls, like Yoshi's Island. There are some minor differences in terms of blast zones (Tomodachi Life seems to have a low ceiling, for example), but other than that, they're all pretty much the same. I think all the Final Destinations should be placed into one of these categories, and then the categories should be treated as one stage.
I would never want a stage list to require the other player to ban two Final Destinations because of the bottom allowing it to be on the list twice, but not counting that, you are forgetting stages that also create a bottom that works like Pokemon Stadium. All of them that have walls can be subcategorized into ones with straight walls and ones with lips. The ones that have lips have differing depths before the wall that can majorly effect what recoveries/walljumps/sharking/what-have-you works.

Whoops, double post.
 
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Boy Jordan

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Neutral
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island
Final Destination
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower

Counterpick
Jungle Japes
Brinstar
Corneria
Mute City
Reset Bomb Factory
Tortimer Island

Just from what little we've seen up to this point, I'd be surprised if early tournament organizers stray too far from this setup. Rainbow Road and Wily Castle might be experimented with a bit, since their hazards really aren't that impeding. As far as walk-off stages are concerned, I've always felt past judgments had less to do with chaingrabs and shine kills rather than the fact that a major aspect of gameplay (recovery) becomes utterly nullified. I doubt we'll ever see walk-off stages make a debut in the competitive scene. As far as circle-camping goes, primarily concerning Tomodachi Life and Guar Plains, I still can't determine how prevalent such stall tactics will be in the metagame. Those stages might see some use.

EDIT: Also, it's been proven that each Final Destination stage variant differs from each other in some way. Primarily, some variants have their walls stretch to the bottom blast zones, while others are just a floating platform. Blast zones are also noticeably different from stage to stage. I'm really curious how we're going to go about this as far as neutrals and counterpicks are concerned.
 
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Raziek

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If there's anyone who goes with only 3 starters, there's something wrong.

At the very least, Lumiose and either Ferox or Mute City should be added.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Possibly the island as well. Unsure if I would take the Island or Arena Ferox as my 5th, but there definitely shouldn't be three starters. In that, we are in agreement.
 

Boy Jordan

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If there's anyone who goes with only 3 starters, there's something wrong.

At the very least, Lumiose and either Ferox or Mute City should be added.
Whoops. Meant to include Arena Ferox in the starters list. Mute City shouldn't be a starter. The point of my post, though, wasn't to say what I think the setup should be, but rather just what I think early organizers will use to begin with. And I think it'd be a good idea to start with relatively safe options before exploring more hectic stages. Stage legality largely depends on game mechanics, which we won't have a full understand of for still quite some time. It'll take a bit before we see more concise arguments for or against certain stages, and that's fine.

EDIT: As for Lumiose, I think the deciding factor whether or not it will be starter is if the platform's ledges can be grabbed between transitions. If not, I think that alone is enough to justify its place among the other counterpicks. Otherwise, like Arena Ferox, its transformations are hardly intrusive to the fighters, and it'll probably be a starter in most tournaments.
 
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JCOnyx

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Eh, 3 stage starters has been discussed before and it didn't seem like that bad of an idea. I personally don't really like any of the other options as starters. Perhaps Lumiose, but that's it.

Tortimer Island's randomized layouts makes it an odd choice for a neutral starting stage in my opinion. And some of the transformations in Arena Ferox are absolutely huge and create ceilings and sets up for some extremely early off the top kills. I would prefer for it to be tested on a bit more before considering it as a starter.
 

ぱみゅ

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Really worried about this.
]Raz sounds like someone beaten by life and thrown down into some sort of sad reality.
Rainbow Road doesn't seem worse than Corneria or Japes. More examination needed indeed.
Also subbed and willing to discuss a lot of stuff.

Also I like some people's attitude towards stages this time around (at least in this thread).
AlsoAlso FLOSS
 
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Raziek

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Rainbow Road is basically PTAD with less damaging, but more intrusive cars. The tube transition is like the wall on PTAD and I would say is the most jarring, but the cars really do disrupt things a lot. There aren't super clear 'safe spots' like PTAD had.
 

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Whats wrong with hazards? I mean I'm legitimately asking.

I don't have access to the game yet so I can't offer much in the way of testing. But the find me stage was written off because it has a hazzard? From what I saw you can shoot the ultimate ghost with a lazer and he will go back into the background. If he does hit you or attack you it isn't enough to outright kill you even at high percentages.

Air camping? Is this really an issue in this game? there is no more glide. All of the big stalls got hit very hard, wario falls faster and get much less out of his bike and has to commit much more to the direction he is moving in the air. MK's tornado is dead.

Why is spirit tracks bad?
Why is Gerudo bad? Just losely comparing these stages to old ones isn't enough. I am not a huge fan of Sprit tracks, but... is that enough of a reason to ban it? I really like Gerudo Valley, but is that a reason it should stay?

In my opinion the only reasons to ban a stage are because they can kill you without warning/randomly, or if they create situations where you can stall the match indefinitely. Most of the stages don't do that even the ones we don't like. Having a very clear set of rules we go by when selecting (or more accurately banning) stages is SO important if we want what we do and say to be agreed with and understood. Doing things based on how we feel isn't the right path to take.

We have to as ourselves what do we as a community want from our stage lists?

No stage hazards and no random elements? No walk offs? FD only? And THEN we need to answer why are we choosing this path and what whether what we gain is worth what we lose.

Personally I feel the wider the stage list the more appeal the game will have to a wider group of people (I.E. spectators). For YEARS competitive melee WAS played on Mute city and brinstar and a plethra of random stage hazard levels. We went to MLG with these stage lists. And Top players were STILL top players their wins weren't swiped away by randoms who were letting the stage win. I don't think narrowing down the stage list to flat stages with platforms offers enough variety to millions of people; these potential new competitive players and viewers; who buy the game for these crazy stages.
The wider the stage list the more characters can be played competitively. LIttle mac has the worst recovery I've ever seen in a smash game... man. if you limit him to the standard flat plat he would have a much harder time than on stages where this weakness can't be exploited. On the flip if you narrow stages to much (IMO like we did with melee and brawl) you have the potential to get characters who have their weaknesses taken away. I think falco is a prime example, espeacially in brawl he got amazing stage control and much more effective access to his chain grab with stages reduced to just the flat plats. ICs got it way easier as well without hazards and strage terrian to make approaching and defending the ground more difficult.


I guess we need to decide whether a narrow stage list is worth a smaller player/viewer pool and a smaller range of viable characters.

My stage (with my very limited knowledge) list would look something like this if I was only going based on my two big rules

No random death/damage (wario ware, the stage tranforms without warning, if you are trying to grab the ledge during this with a third jump you just die)
No ways to stall indefinitely (no way to reasonably approach you opponent once he gets to a certain position... like the cloud on yoshi's 64) or creates situations where avoiding conflict is the best way to win.


(P.S. I think we should get rid of neutrals and counter picks. there are no neutral stages...)

Legal
Arena Ferox (Fire Emblem: Awakening)~ stage transformations can promote avoiding conflict but they don't last very long.
Battlefield*
Brinstar (Metroid)* - Stage hazzards promote conflict
Corneria (Star Fox)* mild hazzards, they are actually pretty random.
Final Destination*
Find Mii (Find Mii II/Street-Pass Quest II)~ stage boss isn't a big deal from what I've seen. You can "kill" the boss and send him away. Stage transformations promote conflict.
Gaur Plain (Xenoblade Chronicles)~ Gotta do some testing on this one. but I don't think you can stall very effectively here.
Gerudo Valley (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D)~ stage hazzards promote conflict (it doesn't cut the stage in half like eldin did. that was poor stage design for a fighter IMO)
Green Hill Zone (Sonic The Hedgehog)* On the fence with this one because it is so big... needs testing to see how powerful running away is.
Jungle Japes (Donkey Kong Country)* It is a pretty big stage, but with how the platforms are laid out I don't think it is a very easy to stall out a match effectively here anymore.
Living Room (Nintendogs)~Pretty big... but I think the blocks might help to promote conflict. Needs testing.
Mushroomy Kingdom (Super Mario Bros.)*I don't like this stage at all... but... But honestly isn't anything I would consider wrong with it... moves very slow so even the slowest of slowbies can keep up. And it seems like the blast zones were extended so people don't get a huge advantage for getting over a pipe first.
Prism Tower (Pokémon X and Y)~ The transformations promote conflict here too.
Rainbow Road (Mario Kart 7)~I haven't seen much of this stage. but from what I can tell the hazzards are pretty well telegraphed. The stage transformations/transitions don't always promote conflict but for the most part its cool in that regard.
Reset Bomb Forest (Kid Icarus: Uprising)~I want this stage to be good. I'm not sure how wild the stage transformations can get... but if they get too far out there and let people just avoid conflict it could be worth banning. Keeping it in to be on the safe side.
Spirit Train (The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks)~ I like this stage. It kept the gimmick from Big Blue, but really did a better job with it. There is a main platform to fight for that is there for the whole match instead of a bunch of little things everywhere. This give less mobile fighters a very realistic chance. the rear is the dead zone so you want to fight withe you back to the front instead of just fighting for the center control the front.
Tortimer Island (Animal Crossing: New Leaf)~Love it. Random isn't a reason to ban a stage. The hazzards aren't too unreasonable.
Unknown F-Zero stage (F-Zero)~ LOVE IT! I've loved every main F-zero stage in every smash game... and I love everything about this one. The hazard is pretty unchanging and the cars that leave give you a lot of warning. You have to kill off the sides. The small platforms force conflict. can't stall here!
Unknown Game Boy Stage (Game Boy)~ I haven't seen all of the variations yet but I'm guessing there are pretty tame. The stage looks small enough so that it still promotes conflict.
Unknown Paper Mario stage (Paper Mario: Sticker Star/Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door)~ I'm guessing the hazards are pretty telegraphed, I actually haven't seen this stage yet.
Unova Pokémon League (Pokémon Black and White)~ Saw this stage not too long ago. It doesn't look all that bad. I think if people invested time into learning it they could pick up on the patterns. (The ladders show up in time with the background right?) I think the pokemon give a tell as to what they are doing and when they will show up.
Wily Castle (Mega Man 2)~ Yellow devil is a dumb name. but I honestly don't think he is that big of an issue. He has a tell for when he shows up and can get fought off and destroyed. WIth a pinch of reseach we can find out exactly how much damage it takes to kill him. His attack patterns, etc.
Yoshi's Island (Yoshi)*
3D Land (Super Mario 3D Land~)Hazzards have tells and between them and the stage changes they promote conflict.

Maybe? (these stages give a lot of polarizing power to one player)
Golden Plains (New Super Mario Bros. 2)~This is the one with the coins right? The coins spawn very randomly. Once you get 100 you get GGGG-Golden mode! Give you increased knock back and decreased... uh how far you get hitness. It actually might no be a bad stage. It adds depth, are you fighting your opponent or going after coins for super mode? Are you stopping him from getting super mode? If super mode is too super this stage is worth banning... but I don't think it is really all that powerful.
Magicant (Mother)~Man this stage is AWESOME. but the birdman is not. I think he causes way too much of a swing... maybe a cool doubles stage though? I think we do need to test the stage more to understand exactly what is going on with when he spawns and just how powerful he is (how much damage does he tack etc.) Seems unlikely that this stage will be worth keeping. If at all I'd aim to keep it just for doubles matches.

Not Legal
Boxing Ring (Punch Out!!)~ The level is huge! It can easily create situations where running from you opponent is a winning strategy especially slow opponents against quick ones. Needs more testing though...
Distant Planet (Pikmin)~The bulborb (what ever Olimar called that thing) can eat you, he appears without warning. Needs more testing though....
Balloon Fight (Balloon Fight)~Isn't there a fish that randomly eats you?
Flat Zone 2 (Game & Watch)*Hazzards appear randomly in a way that it is impossible to react to causing damage a death a low percents
PictoChat 2 (Nintendo DS)~Man I DO NOT like these hazzards. They seem overwhelming and very agressive and powerful. Even knowing what section you are and can still net you damage since withing the sections random plays a huge part. (the cars go random directions, randomly jump and deal meaningful damage, you aren't randomly punished" for being off stage or something its for being on stage?) Needs more testing though... I guess...
Pac-Maze (Pac-Man)~Random spawns for pellets I think? that give 1 player a power up. My main issue though is that this stage is also pretty big and give faster charcater a lot of ability to just run and avoid conflict.
Tomodachi Life (Tomodachi Life)~ I'm kind of hesitant to put this here but I think the stage might be too big... really have to test this one, but I suspect characters with really good horizontal movement will be very hard to get a hold of here
WarioWare, Inc. (WarioWare)*Think it still has the sudden Transformation. Even if it didn't I'd be very hesitant to put it in just because of the random rewards system... random star power is no good. Should be tested though just to be sure. maybe rewards were standardized for this game.
 
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