Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bradli Wartooth]

Yeeeeeah. Id rather cut Puff before them but like shes kinda immune to it due to OG 12 thing going on. *shrug* it is what it is. Idk.

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is more on opinion than what we can see with Smash history. But it seems that at least a decent amount of people here agree with Jiggs getting da boot, at least til DLC.

 

[Freduardo]

Then...how would you explain characters like Bowser, Kirby and Yoshi...?


.

Bowser loses his shell, Yoshi gets flayed and is revealed to be made of yarn, and Kirby laughs maniacally.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Honestly I think some cuts I'd do
> Cut Corrin, Roy and Lucina. Ike/Marth/Robin are a solid trio that represents FE well with unique styles
> As much as I hate to say it cut Dark Pit and keep Palu/Pit as KI reps. Dark Pit as an alt skin maybe? I love Dpit so much but I understand lol
> Cut Rosa, Bowser Jr. Mario/Peach/Bowser/Luigi/Yoshi/Wario are all we really need in terms of mario reps.
> Cut Toon Link and Sheik. Link/Zelda/Ganon are a good enough number for zelda reps, the main 3.
> Cut Greninja/Zard. Puff kinda has to stay just cause OG 12 status. But Pika/Lucario/Mewtwo are good af reps for the franchise.
> Cut Cloud, Ryu, Bayo, Pacman, Megaman, Sonic. I would like smash 5 to focus more so on Nintendo reps rather than 3rd party characters. I love Cloud and co but I think it would be solid to focus on nintendo reps only going forward.
> Cut Lucas, Ness is the best way to rep Earthbound and we really only need one rep for it.
> While yes Doc is technically a mario rep he kinda reps the oddball puzzle games nintendo has had and keeping him around is good to rep the old way mario played if they updated mario with Odyssey moves.

So that would leave per series the number of reps as
Mario : 7 (if wario and doc are counted)
LOZ : 3
FE : 3
FZero : 1
KI : 2
DK : 2
Pokemon : 4
Wii Fit : 1
AC : 1
Pikmin : 1
Punchout : 1
Metroid : 2 (arguable if you can cut zss or not tbh)
Earthbound : 1
Splatoon : 1
Xenoblade : 1
Duck Hunt : 1
Game and Watch era : 1
Stack em : 1
Star Fox : 2
Kirby : 3

Unless I counted wrong that leaves 39 reps as of now if any of these cuts did happen. That leaves plenty of room for more dynamic series and characters being shown.


I'm not saying I WANT to cut these chars so much as I think if the game is refined at all that these cuts would make sense to me. Again I love most of the cast that is in the game but if I was going to refine the game some more this is what I'd do. To have a lot of open spots for other series to shine. If that makes sense?

(Prepares self for hate wall)

Why would you cut Sonic, PacMan, Mega Man, and Bayo? Bayo is practically a Nintendo franchise. Sonic represents the rivalry Nintendo and SEGA shared. Mega Man appeared on a ton of Nintendo consoles.

And this is the 3rd parties, I have a lot of other problems too.


You cut too many characters. It loses a lot of the fun. 2/10

 

[Morbi]

Yeeeeeah. Id rather cut Puff before them but like shes kinda immune to it due to OG 12 thing going on. *shrug* it is what it is. Idk.

Nah, the OGs are not immune. I believe he was going to replace my boy Ness with Lucas and I believe Jigglypuff was low priority in Brawl, because she was with the other low priority characters, I am not as confident about that one. Luckily that never happened. That being said, I still prefer her to Greninja and Charizard regardless.

 

[BrytonJ]

OOOH, let's try a new challenge then!

Top 5 characters you'd want to get cut if 5 had to get cut, even if they can come back as DLC later. You can't pick Doc, Lucina, Dark Pit, or Miis.

My Top 5:
Lucas
Roy
Jigglypuff
Corrin
Ryu


...That was surprisingly difficult for me.

Lemme tell ya, they'd better not get rid of my lovely mii fighters.

My Top 5:
Corrin
Toon Link
Palutena
Lucas
Ryu

Special shout to Ryu who I have never liked and who I have always regarded as lame karate man. To me... he belongs in the garbage...

 

[Onua]

Why would you cut Sonic, PacMan, Mega Man, and Bayo? Bayo is practically a Nintendo franchise. Sonic represents the rivalry Nintendo and SEGA shared. Mega Man appeared on a ton of Nintendo consoles.

And this is the 3rd parties, I have a lot of other problems too.


You cut too many characters. It loses a lot of the fun. 2/10

Again like I said I wouldn't want to cut this many lol. I said if I were to refine the game down as much as possible. Aka max number of cuts. Didn't mean thats what I really want to see.

 

[Chandeelure]

"You can't pick Doc, Lucina, Dark Pit, or Miis."

Well...



It was not that hard haha.

 

[Freduardo]

I don't even know what the developers were thinking while setting up Palutena's overall moveset. She really needs a second chance, and I probably have a good idea on how to fix up her notable flaws.

https://gamebanana.com/gamefiles/4671

It's just too bad that our own moveset modifications tend to fall on deaf ears.

I think it was pretty obvious what they were thinking with Palutena. You never had to unlock her custom moves and unlike any other character her’s weren’t variations on a theme, she had 12 very different moves from the multiplayer in Uprising.

She was supposed to be the most customizable moveset outside of Miis.

No one plays customs.

So few play Miis.

I’m happy Miis aren’t on people’s cut lists.

 

[Camc10]

I think it was pretty obvious what they were thinking with Palutena. You never had to unlock her custom moves and unlike any other character her’s weren’t variations on a theme, she had 12 very different moves from the multiplayer in Uprising.

She was supposed to be the most customizable moveset outside of Miis.

No one plays customs.

So few play Miis.

I’m happy Miis aren’t on people’s cut lists.

They probably are. They just aren't allowed tobe said in this case.

Honestly i don't really expect cuts. Same reasoning for why i feel other characters chances are high. Oustide of reused assets, who are you really gona cut them for?

 

[Onua]

I mean I doubt many characters will be cut if any.
Smash 4 was designed to be ported and worked with.
I think Smash 5 will be a heavily modified version of the smash 4 base engine since they can port over the characters and animations and such.
I dont think many if any cuts will happen. Only more additions.

 

[Chandeelure]

So, I spoiled everything about Star Allies.

I will just say that it is awesome and if Smash Switch doesn't have a stage or music from it and we get another Super Star thing, then Sakurai has a problem.

 

[Radical Bones]

Here are my 5 cuts:



Wow, I sure didn't like the last wave of DLC

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Here are my 5 cuts:



Wow, I sure didn't like the last wave of DLC

Why Lucario?

 

[Troykv]

So, I spoiled everything about Star Allies.

I will just say that it is awesome and if Smash Switch doesn't have a stage or music from it and we get another Super Star thing, then Sakurai has a problem.

Isn't a bit late for a Kirby Star Allies stage?, but music is possible.

 

[Lyndis_]

OOOH, let's try a new challenge then!

Top 5 characters you'd want to get cut if 5 had to get cut, even if they can come back as DLC later. You can't pick Doc, Lucina, Dark Pit, or Miis.

My Top 5:
Lucas
Roy
Jigglypuff
Corrin
Ryu


...That was surprisingly difficult for me.

I know I'd get smited for each and every one of these... lol.

Lucario is because I think they honestly have one of the most boring movesets in the game. I considered Greninja instead, however both Mewtwo and Greninja are much more unique than Lucario is, really. Greninja just needs some help in the way of framedata.

Zero Suit Samus I simply dislike how they're represented in Smash. The super dominant innuendo whip & heels thing that never existed (and actually clashes with Samus' canon personality) really annoys me. Also just the fact ZSS is supposed to be useless, because if Samus isn't able to use her suit it's because she has low focus or energy and not really capable of much in the terms of fighting.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

OOOH, let's try a new challenge then!

Top 5 characters you'd want to get cut if 5 had to get cut, even if they can come back as DLC later. You can't pick Doc, Lucina, Dark Pit, or Miis.

My Top 5:
Lucas
Roy
Jigglypuff
Corrin
Ryu


...That was surprisingly difficult for me.

/

Yeah, this going to be good :eyes:

 

[Arklos]

So, I spoiled everything about Star Allies.

I will just say that it is awesome and if Smash Switch doesn't have a stage or music from it and we get another Super Star thing, then Sakurai has a problem.

As cool as it would be, the game's is waaaayyyyy too recent.

 

[N3ON]

Cut


one from each

 

[Danpal65]

Isn't a bit late for a Kirby Star Allies stage?, but music is possible.

I would not think so. Would have actually been in development around the same time. Robobot came out in 2016 and Smash started development around the same time. Plus, there is no way Sakurai would not know what is going on at HAL, a company that he is closely related to.

 

[Mythra]

OOOH, let's try a new challenge then!

Top 5 characters you'd want to get cut if 5 had to get cut, even if they can come back as DLC later. You can't pick Doc, Lucina, Dark Pit, or Miis.

My Top 5:
Lucas
Roy
Jigglypuff
Corrin
Ryu


...That was surprisingly difficult for me.

My 5 cuts:



Im sure Greninja's popularity took a huge blow after choking the Kalos Finals in the anime; I cannot look at him without thinking about Doragon Cro.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

smh all these peeps cutting the best character in Smash

 

[Danpal65]

smh all these peeps cutting the best character in Smash

You mean Puff?

 

[Chandeelure]

Isn't a bit late for a Kirby Star Allies stage?, but music is possible.

As cool as it would be, the game's is waaaayyyyy too recent.

DLC is a possibility, but also, I'm sure Sakurai knows about games that will come out in the future (Greninja's inclusion was literally thanks to that, also the Wooly World stage).

 

[Arklos]

DLC is a possibility, but also, I'm sure Sakurai knows about games that will come out in the future (Greninja's inclusion was literally thanks to that, also the Wooly World stage).

True, but Sakurai doesn't seem like he'd really care enough about the new kirby's to go looking for something in an upcoming game. I'd love to be wrong though.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Why are we talking about cuts again? Cuts are dumb, and half the time people cut characters they don't like because they don't like them.

Let's see some damn movesets! Anybody?

 

[Ghirahilda]

My choices for the guillotine

Pretty easy

 

[Danpal65]

Why are we talking about cuts again? Cuts are dumb, and half the time people cut characters they don't like because they don't like them.

Let's see some damn movesets! Anybody?

If I get a chance I am going to try and draw up some moveset stuff this weekend for Inkling and reworked Zelda/Link. If I do I'll probably post it Monday-ish.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

You mean Puff?

Lucario and I don't mean frame data or movesets either.

 

[Chandeelure]

Spoiler

Hyness for Smash :^)

 

[Lyndis_]

Lucario and I don't mean frame data or movesets either.

I assumed that was what you were referring to...

I don't have anything against them, I just often forget they're even in the game lol.

Their movesets just kinda comes off as boring to me, especially now that rage is a mechanic in Smash.

I don't dislike them and wouldn't cut them if I didn't have to cut characters, it's just that I like everyone else a bit more..

True, but Sakurai doesn't seem like he'd really care enough about the new kirby's to go looking for something in an upcoming game. I'd love to be wrong though.

Isn't almost everything Kirby related in Smash something Sakurai worked on and not much else?

 

[Ghirahilda]

WHY WE NEED DLC IF WE CAN GET FREE CHARACTERS FROM UPDATES LIKE ARMS DID?
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

[Camc10]

Speaking of movesets. With most people thinking Mario will be getting a rework, how do you feel about Doc taking the melee moveset as his own, becoming less of a clone without even trying?

 

[JamesDNaux]

The ones I can't pick are the only characters worth cutting off, what kind of sham is this?



I guess I'd pick these if you held a gun to my head.

 

[Lyndis_]

Speaking of movesets. With most people thinking Mario will be getting a rework, how do you feel about Doc taking the melee moveset as his own, becoming less of a clone without even trying?

I imagine that's almost definitely the route they're going to take. They've already done it for his changes since Brawl, so I imagine if Mario gets some new moves again Doc is going to continue to be Doc.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's absolutely mind boggling to me that people are cutting characters like Cloud and Ryu when they have some of the most interesting gameplay mechanics in the entire game.

Because, you know, we play Super Smash Bros. We don't just stare at the roster and say, "Wow! What a cool representation of Nintendo...Oh what? You wanted to play? No, I'd rather not. I just want to talk about it and not keep the cool stuff."

Listen, I was super negative toward Final Fantasy when I was a kid, because I was hyper defensive of anything Nintendo. I thought the characters were dumb, that Nintendo was way better, etc... I actually played Final Fantasy VII for the first time just after Cloud got announced. It's one of my favorite games of all time.

More than half the time, the only reason to cut Cloud is because he's not Nintendo.

You wanna know something mind blowing?

ISN'T NINTENDO
ISN'T NINTENDO
ISN'T NINTENDO

What's that you say? They fit into the art style despite the fact that it's a crossover fighting game consisting of characters like an intergalactic bounty hunter and an electric rat? They're important to gaming history? Ah yes, that's a great point. SO ARE AND .

There is literally social/cultural context of the childhood rivalry of vs. during the 90's. That was a fantasy matchup. The official artwork for Cloud put Link vs. Cloud in it because of the massive rivalry. Cloud is to Link as Sonic is to Mario. Him being in Smash is a big ****ing deal because of it

But no, let's cut him because he's not Nintendo. What a stupid reason to cut a popular character.

I cannot wait until the "Not Nintendo" argument dies.

Better yet, I'll go one step further. I predict he will stay. I don't really care if I'm wrong, but think about it. Why would Sakurai, probably knowing development would be starting on a new game on a new system, ONLY GET the licensing for Cloud...for DLC...for a game...on a dying system?

Again. Toward the end of DLC. For a game on a dying system. Knowing they are making another shortly thereafter.

Spoiler: Oy

Honestly, I'm sorry if I seem like a d bag here, but I've had a long day of traveling from Buffalo to Jacksonville for a conference. Not to mention I absolutely hate some of the talking points people use toward particular characters because they're weak and narrow sighted. Frankly, it comes down to fans being salty their subpar character of choice didn't get in when Cloud did, so the only option is to cut the character who had literally nothing to do with the exclusion of their fantasy to spite other people apparently. Goodness gracious.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Why are we talking about cuts again? Cuts are dumb, and half the time people cut characters they don't like because they don't like them.

Let's see some damn movesets! Anybody?

Not to beat a dead horse, (Or make that pun, actually...) But did people see my moveset/general character ideas for Harvest Moon Farmer? I know a few did, but I think it got buried in that censorship discussion last night.

 

[?????????????]

Why are we talking about cuts again? Cuts are dumb, and half the time people cut characters they don't like because they don't like them.

Let's see some damn movesets! Anybody?

Spring Man:

Fighting Style: Stretchy Punches

B: Tribolt- Launches 6 spread shots that attack forward and retract.
B>: Boomerang- Launches a long reaching, widespread, retracting punch.
B^: Bounce- Coils up and launches upward with an uppercut. The longer it's charged, the higher he goes.
Bv: Change Arms- Switches between gloves. By default, uses Toaster, which deals Fire damage when delivering normal attacks. Alternate options include Sparky (Electric), Buff (Damage), Chilla (Ice), and Bubb (Knockback).

Final Smash: Rush Attack- A flurry of punches that home in on opponents in front of Spring Man.



...So there's a start.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Seeing Corrin on almost all of these makes me incredibly sad.

I'll play along, I guess.

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)

Don't really want any of them to go if it can be helped.

 

[Chandeelure]

I imagine that's almost definitely the route they're going to take. They've already done it for his changes since Brawl, so I imagine if Mario gets some new moves again Doc is going to continue to be Doc.

Then Dr. Mario will look more like a clone of Luigi instead of a clone of Mario haha.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I assumed that was what you were referring to...

I don't have anything against them, I just often forget they're even in the game lol.

Their movesets just kinda comes off as boring to me, especially now that rage is a mechanic in Smash.

I don't dislike them and wouldn't cut them if I didn't have to cut characters, it's just that I like everyone else a bit more..

I don't care about Lucario's or frame data. I wish Lucario was kinda PM style where he got rewarded for being a good player as opposed to being bad. Although as long as Lucario is okay and gay then I'm okay too!