Project M 3.0 Released! (Changelog in post)

[Bent 00]

Just curious - does anyone here play Brawl Minus? It just got updated again today.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Just curious - does anyone here play Brawl Minus? It just got updated again today.

I do.Any particular reason your asking?

 

[Bent 00]

Just wanted to see how many here play both mods, and maybe spark a discussion comparing the two.

I wonder if the PMBR will ever release the Project M code list... I'd love to see Minus versions of Mewtwo and Roy.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

That would be awesome,but I am pretty sure the Roy and Mewtwo codes only work in P:M so if we just copy/paste the codes it would not work...Also their attributes and other things are made to fit in Project M.

Nice Idea though like minus Mewtwo can float for 3 seconds instead of this 1 idk.I hope this happens in the future.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

True! He looks balanced and fair, but his moves are kinda too powerful, to me that is. Then again, ANYBODY fighting Giga Bowser haves a very good chance of winning, because of his size (And REALLY BIG). Like back in Melee, I took him out no problem, because of that advantage. If I can defeat him, anyone can, even the tournament players.

But once again, your right. It does take long and hard thinking. Especially thinking about someone strong as Giga Bowser!

That was mainly because of Giga Bowser having bad AI in Melee. With real players controlling him it`s a whole other story.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I know 3.0 just released and all,but I was wondering how long does it usually take for the ''b'' releases like what was the time difference between 2.6 and 2.6b?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I know 3.0 just released and all,but I was wondering how long does it usually take for the ''b'' releases like what was the time difference between 2.6 and 2.6b?

Usually a few weeks, maybe a month or two at most. Just depends on how many bugs they find and how quickly they can fix them.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Hopefully before apex so they can fix out the bugs.I'm not going,but I think that is the first huge tournament Mewtwo and Roy will be in.

Also will turbo mode be on apex because watching those sounds fun?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Hopefully before apex so they can fix out the bugs.I'm not going,but I think that is the first huge tournament Mewtwo and Roy will be in.

Also will turbo mode be on apex because watching those sounds fun?

I feel that Turbo Mode is to unbalanced and buggy to be tourney ready.

 

[APC99]

Hi, I have a few questions, as I'm going to download Project M 3.0 sometime tomorrow.

1. Will it work on a Wii U? (Mine came in the Deluxe Set w/ the New Super Mario Bros. games, so I'm not sure if that has an impact)

2. Will I still be able to play Normal Brawl without the SD Card? (I'm guessing yes, but just trying to be safe).

 

[3Pro]

I am so disappointed that they replaced Snake's Nikita. I don't know if I'll even use him now

 

[shwickid222]

The nikita replacement is a better fit for snake. Hes always had a gun. The nakita just didnt make sense

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Hi, I have a few questions, as I'm going to download Project M 3.0 sometime tomorrow.

1. Will it work on a Wii U? (Mine came in the Deluxe Set w/ the New Super Mario Bros. games, so I'm not sure if that has an impact)

2. Will I still be able to play Normal Brawl without the SD Card? (I'm guessing yes, but just trying to be safe).

1. I play on the wii u,I use the homebrew method,but I am certain the hackless method works as well.

2.Yes if you are using hackless just take out the sd card and if you are using homebrew then instead of going to the homebrew channel click brawl in the wii menu.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I am so disappointed that they replaced Snake's Nikita. I don't know if I'll even use him now

I agree completely. Tranq has an a**load of lag when reloading, Nikita did not have that. Sure Snake would be left open to attack using Nikita during the entire move, but at least he can cancel the missile and shield or run away in time. I just feel Nikita is consistently more safe to use. In general the tranq has so many less uses than Nikita. Tranq has little, to no edge guarding use in comparison to Nikita, plus Nikita is a million times safer edge guard than the tranq. There is a lot more stage control potential in Nikita, especially if Snake has other explosives on the stage already. I just seenmore mindgame potential in Nikita. The tranq is a cool bit of fan service, but I would rather see it go away, and have the Nikita back.

I've mained Snake since months after vBrawls release, he's close to my heart so I feel strongly about this change. I was able to let go of the changes the PM team made in the past like taking away having 2 grenades, his old Fsmash(loved the rpg so much more than the ugly fsmash he has now), and especially the old utilt, I hated the uppercut move since day one (I also think the animation looks worse now than in 2.6 tbh.) I used to hate paying Snake in PM, but I was able to adjust. I just think replacing the Nikita is too much, Snake used to have all these tight moves, and now I just don't care anymore since he keeps getting new ones that are kind of, meh, IMO. Please get rid of the tranq, a cool idea, but a worthless move.

 

[Bent 00]

It does seem like the Nikita had a bigger variety of uses, but let's give the Tranquilizer Gun a chance.

BTW, I was curious what would happen, so I tried removing this code from the .gct:

C285B784 00000004
3C609017 6063F36C
88630000 2C030001
38600000 40820008
38600003 00000000

I don't know exactly what that code does, but I'm guessing that removing it restored the default Buffer setting to the vBrawl standard 10 frames instead of Project M's 0 frames.

Unfortunately, this little experiment did not fix the "wasted 2nd jump problem" I've been experiencing when I try to short-hop a Dair. Apparently, if you press up on the control stick and down on the c stick at nearly the same time, you'll just waste your 2nd jump and not do a Dair. For it to work, you have to hit the c stick STRAIGHT down, a few frames after you hit up on the control stick. Why is it this tricky to pull off a short-hopped Dair?

Stock Control was still in effect. (wish I knew which code to disable to turn that off...)

The amount of reflex speed and technical skill that Project M demands for me to play well is taking away from the fun factor, to be honest. I know that's how it was in Melee, but a lot of us are more used to Brawl's physics, and therefore much more reliant on Buffer. I'd like to be able to use at least 6 frames of buffer without forcing the other player(s) to do the same.

I suggest taking out Stock Control from both the Full and WiFi sets, and restoring the Handicap Scale = Buffer Scale code, like you had it back in Project M 2.0. I think that those who use Stock Control frequently are a minority compared to those of us who would prefer to have custom Buffer. Honestly, how many of you use Stock Control often?

Input Assist's 3 frames is workable, but it's a problem when one person in the group is against using Buffer. To me, the inputs required for some moves (mainly short-hopped aerials) seem very different on 0 Buffer VS 3 Buffer... Matches are much more interesting and fun when I don't have to fight against the controller to get frame-perfect inputs.

I don't care that 0 Buffer is tournament standard, since I'll probably never compete in a major one anyway. My friends and I just want to play at a high level without having to demolish our controllers or spend countless hours honing our reflexes. Custom Buffer allows us to do just that.

P.S.: Here's the Project M 3.0 .gct with that one code removed, if anyone wants to try it:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/nb1b9do5f9b1v5e/RSBE01.gct

P.P.S.: Can we please have the instant momentum shift removed from reversed aerial Falcon Punches? I almost always reverse the Punch to gain that little bit of control on Falcon's trajectory, but in Project M, I usually end up flying off opposite of my intended direction whenever I try to reverse a Punch in midair.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

So does anyone know how I can change stock control to buffer?

 

[Revven]

You won't have to if you just wait for us to upload the fix. We've been extremely busy this past week between the release itself and various other things (like the AMA from yesterday).

 

[Jade_Rock55]

OK great thanks for that,I can't wait for that fix!

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

*snip*

The thing about Snake's Nikita launcher is that yes, although it had a wide variety of uses in comparison to the Tranquilizer, the Nikitia Launcher was far too efficient and polarizing of a move. You have said it yourself:

1) "Tranq has an a**load of lag when reloading, Nikita did not have that. Sure Snake would be left open to attack using Nikita during the entire move, but at least he can cancel the missile and shield or run away in time. I just feel Nikita is consistently more safe to use"

The first problem with the move is that it was too safe to use in proportion to the benefits that it yielded. The Nikita offered on-stage space control, off-stage edge guarding, KO potential, zoning, damage-racking, reliability (since you can control its trajectory), and it was almost entirely safe to use considering the player used it in the right situations. The Nikita launcher had all of this, with little to no drawback. Sure, it left Snake vulnerable if he used it up-close, but smart use of the move would always usually either lead to free damage, free pressure, or a free KO.

2) "In general the tranq has so many less uses than Nikita. Tranq has little, to no edge guarding use in comparison to Nikita, plus Nikita is a million times safer edge guard than the tranq."

The second problem with the Nikita launcher is that it had TOO many uses. Even if the aforementioned problem of it being too safe of a move was adressed, it would still yield too much benefit for very little drawback...albeit harder to consistently pull off if the move wasn't as safe (e.g.: Being unable to cancel the Nikita launcher). In particular, it would still be one of the most effective edge-guarding tools in the game that MANY characters wouldn't be able to deal with. Marth, DK, Bowser, Roy, Ganondorf, Link, and so-forth would have no real way of being able to contest and/or avoid the Nikita launcher if it is heading towards them off-stage...which will probably lead to their guaranteed deaths. The fact that it is a tool that they could predict it happening, but be unable to do anything about it speaks words for how the Nikita launcher is too efficient and polarizing for its own good. Not only would the move have to be changed so that it isn't as safe, it would also have to have a nerf in regards to how easy is it for the player to control and change the trajectory of the projectile...and even then it would still pose as an off-stage menace.

3) "There is a lot more stage control potential in Nikita, especially if Snake has other explosives on the stage already. I just seenmore mindgame potential in Nikita."

The third problem with the Nikita launcher received the two nerfs that I mentioned above, it would still be far too overcompensating in regards to how easy it is to put the opponent in an unfavorable position. In conjunction with Grenades, Mines, C4's, and mortar shells; adding more mindgames to an opponent who already has to deal with all of these things is an absolute nightmare to deal with, especially for the slower characters with big hitboxes (Ganondorf). With a character that is already so space-controlling centralized, why should he have another tool that is not only super easy to abuse, but also pretty much guarantees free KO's when it comes to edge-guarding? Why allow this move to be so safe to use, and easy to control? Why have an incredible zoning projectile which is essentially the best off-stage controlling projectile in the game when Snake already has so much on-stage control, and yet this move also additionally adds to Snake's already solid on-stage control?


4) Even if the Nikita Launcher was nerfed in order to deal with all the problems I addressed, lots of people would still hate the changes because it would be nerfed too much.

In conclusion to everything that was mentioned thus far, the PMBR would've been left with three options in regards to the Nikita launcher:

a) To nerf the move slightly, only for it to still dominate in one (if not more) of the categories I have mentioned. Additionally, it would have been yet another tool to add to Snake's already highly bloated on-stage controlling arsenal.
b) To nerf the move to a point where it won't be polarizing, though this poses a problem as the move would almost become redundant to use since Snake's other tools would get the job done better at this point. Additionally, fans would still be angry at the changes.
c) To add an entirely new move to Snake's arsenal...that while it DOES add to Snake's on-stage control, it does not pose the other problems that the Nikita launcher has.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me, option c was by far the best choice. Rather than dealing with a move that possessed so many problems, it would've been much easier to just create a whole different move entirely...which the PMBR has done. Here is everything that the Tranquilizer does in comparison to the Nikita Launcher:

1) Provides Snake with additional on-stage control (which is the very core of Snake's metagame), though it requires intelligent use as the move is not safe in several situations, and the move is only effective when used against an opponent who is on the ground.
2) Emphasizes and builds upon's Snake's already existing tools, such as C4s and Grenades.
3) Takes away toxic elements that Snake previously had before...which was a zoning KO move and off-stage/aerial control when Snake's on-stage control is already very solid as is.
4) Is canon to Snake's character and series, making it a worthy successor to the Nikita launcher and appealing to a large sum of fans.
5) Despite the drawbacks that the Tranquilizer has, it DOES yield amazing benefits. Pulling it off grants Snake time for set-up of a C4 plant, a free forward Smash, and more. So although it isn't the jack of all trades as the Nikita launcher was, the Tranquilizer is far from a "worthless move".


All in all, I believe that the Tranquilizer is an amazing new tool to Snake's metagame, and is a fine replacement to the Nikita launcher. Sure, there will be many Snake players such as yourself that will be angry at this change, but I believe it is for the best in regards to balancing Snake with the rest of the cast. Snake players will definitely have to adjust, but when they do adjust, those adjustments would be geared towards Snake's positive elements...which is on-stage control. Allowing Snake to further grow and develop in that area, which is Snake's most defining trait as a whole. So, although I am sorry for your loss in regards to your dislike of the Nikita launcher being gone, I implore that you at least give the Tranquilizer gun a chance before shut the door on it.


I would say more on this subject, but currently I am too tired of writing atm. But hopefully this will give you a new perspective and understanding on Snake's changes, even if you still dislike them.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I will try out Snake in the next few tourneys I go to so I can really try out and get a good feel for using the tranq, and plus 3.0 hasn't been out a full week yet. However I've already hated every new move Snake has gotten in PM (except crawl attack), and I'm sort of tired of adjusting, and adjusting, and adjusting to moves I hate. At this point I'm just not excited about playing as Snake anymore.

I also didn't think Snake was THAT good that he needed a gigantic nerf, for like no reason.

 

[NameChange]

Snake has a completely different playstyle from Brawl, that's probably why you have trouble adjusting unless you mean from demo 2.6b in that case idk

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I realize he's plays different from Brawl... like, duh. I haven't played Brawl in a serious manner in well over a year, and have been playing Snake in PM since that time. I've been adjusting to PM Snake for a while now, and I don't want more unnecessary changes. I've NEVER heard of anyone complain that Nikita was too good of a move that it needed to be changed at all, so I'm very confused/upset as to why it was changed. To me, it seems a large part of the change is based on MGS fan service. Fan service and the tranq idea are cool, and I adore the s**t out of the MGS series, but this change wasn't necessary at all.

 

[APC99]

Alright, I'm having problems.

I downloaded the Wi-Fi version, and I put it on my SD Card. Deleted all my stages on the Wii, and put in Project M. Froze the screen.

Tried to check if there are any stages on the SD. There are. Move Project M off of SD card, put the SD card back in, the Stage Builder won't upload the stages anymore, so I'm stuck not being able to delete them and play Project M.

How do I fix this?

 

[Nikes]

Not sure if anyone's noticed or pointed this out yet, but the 'damage gauge' option (2nd page of rules) is actually input assist apparently.

 

[MonkUnit]

APC99, if you come to the Project M IRC, it will be easier to help you.

 

[NameChange]

I've NEVER heard of anyone complain that Nikita was too good of a move that it needed to be changed at all, so I'm very confused/upset as to why it was changed..

No one did

They said it was useless and really didn't serve much purpose beyond edgegaurding and mindgamez (even then, Snake has other better options to do so)

You can take it to the Snake boards because I don't want to dwell on it in this thread

 

[Quag]

Project M: supposed to be a competitive game. (Sees a long list of changes to the items) Me: yup, totally competitive.
Also, does anyone else feel like the character selection pictures are a lower resolution, because I can see some blockiness in the pictures.

 

[MonkUnit]

Yes, the CSPs are lower quality. We had to do this in order to make room for alt costume/recolor CSPs and Roy/Mewtwo CSPs.

 

[NameChange]

Project M: supposed to be a competitive game. (Sees a long list of changes to the items) Me: yup, totally competitive.

Project M is fun casually too
Just imagine if it wasnt

 

[Nikes]

Yes, the CSPs are lower quality. We had to do this in order to make room for alt costume/recolor CSPs and Roy/Mewtwo CSPs.

That's a shame, but it's understandable. Keep up the great work anyway

 

[TommyDerMeister]

No one did

They said it was useless and really didn't serve much purpose beyond edgegaurding and mindgamez (even then, Snake has other better options to do so)

Snake doesn't have a better-than-Nikta option when it comes to edgeguarding, that's wrong to think otherwise. Nikita has years worth of more potential than tranq ever will. I don't see why people want a worse move over the old one that was perfectly fine. No one complained about Nikita until it was removed.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Snake doesn't have a better-than-Nikta option when it comes to edgeguarding, that's wrong to think otherwise. Nikita has years worth of more potential than tranq ever will. I don't see why people want a worse move over the old one that was perfectly fine. No one complained about Nikita until it was removed.

I wasn't a fan of Nikita when it was in Snake's arsenal. It was too effective and too safe with it's cancel. You could cover yourself while coming down with intelligent use of Nikita's cancel, while still maintaining the ability to damage/kill opponents that might try to challenge it.

I don't know about you, but when an attack is canceled, I fell that it shouldn't pose an offensive threat after the cancel. It should allow the canceler to move out of it, possibly set up a situation where more offense can occur, but you definitely shouldn't have a cancel that on top of giving you your movement back allows your canceled attack to KO someone.

Nikita was as silly as Ivysaur's Razor Leaf, Sonic's old Spin Dash/Charge (Whichever the down B is. Should be dash considering that's the Spin Dash animation), 2.1 Lucario and 2.1 Ike. How you can't see that, I'm not really sure.

 

[GP&B]

Nikita wasn't broken, but it was hideously polarizing.

 

[extremechiton]

i must say turbo mode is pretty fun

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

It's not good for a character to have a powerful offstage edgeguard game that can be performed from the middle of a stage, yeah?

 

[kesterstudios]

I NEED HELP
i took the Dr. Mario texture from Project M and put it into my balanced brawl hack. It works fine except that fludd doesnt work right. the water goes downward for some reason and its all glitched up. is there a way to fix this or do i have to use a doctor mario texture from brawl vault? i really want to use the dr mario from project m. its so awesome

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I NEED HELP
i took the Dr. Mario texture from Project M and put it into my balanced brawl hack. It works fine except that fludd doesnt work right. the water goes downward for some reason and its all glitched up. is there a way to fix this or do i have to use a doctor mario texture from brawl vault? i really want to use the dr mario from project m. its so awesome

Considering that it was made for Project M, I don't think this is the right place to ask how to import it properly to another game.

 

[starfox1993]

Looking for some friendlies new to Project M!

 

[starfox1993]

Friendlies anyone?

 

[SophyBer]

I don't get why G&W's SuperFood would be removed.
; __________;