Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Smady]

It would be interesting... But if he and the Pikmin are the same size as you, wouldn't it look like a gang **** when they attack you?

In the games the Pikmin attack enemies by kind of climbing them, did I miss something in the moveset?

 

[GreenMamba]

Welcome to the discussion Green Mamba.

Okay, I find this a little confusing so I hope you can straighten me out. If I understand it correctly, Sakurai opened a Japanese poll in which he invited people to make character suugestions. Of the mailbag letters sent in, he responded to a select few, and in responding to these letters he revealed the character of choice of each indiviual letter writer (which is separate from the actual letter itself).

So, while the actual results of the thousands of people polled reamin a mystery, we do have what might be called a representative sample of a hundred or so - the people that Sakurai saw as worth responding to. Also, while all their letters were not all directly related to their character choice, my guess (which I base on no evidence whatsoever) is that at least some of them were.

Maybe you and Kimhari Ronso are correct that the mailbag characters are utterly irrelivant, but I'm not so sure. In any case, its my stupid mistake to make and the worst case scenario is that my predictions are proved wrong (which may or may not refelct the meaningfullness of the mailbag character list) so it really doesn't bother me either way.

Kimhari's look into it was pretty much to debunk some Geno defenders who kept saying he was one of the most referenced in the mailbag, and his revelation came out of his looking into why Geno came up so many times. About 90% of Geno's mentions were just in the "favorite character" part, whereas the reamining two were just requesting him to be a trophy (along with several other characters). Pull from this what you will, but I don't believe that the "favorite character" part had any bearing on what was put into the mailbag.

 

[Vali]

It would be interesting... But if he and the Pikmin are the same size as you, wouldn't it look like a gang **** when they attack you?

In the games the Pikmin attack enemies by kind of climbing them, did I miss something in the moveset?

If you read one of my previous posts I did describe them as "Gang attacking" since I think gang **** has just that >.> feel to it, but yeah basically you throw them onto the enemy as the best way of attacking, usually it's the only way to avoid getting eaten/squashed/flamed immediately. Therefore in my moveset throwing Pikmin onto opponents reaps benefits, but they're perfectly capable of attacking on the ground. That's how I lose most of my Pikmin ;D.

On a perfectly related note with the whole gang business, there is a cross between one of the most basic enemy and a pikmin in it as another enemy, it says that it's due to a parasite pikmin, but I'm beginning to have my doubts. <.<

 

[Smady]

If you read one of my previous posts I did describe them as "Gang attacking" since I think gang **** has just that >.> feel to it, but yeah basically you throw them onto the enemy as the best way of attacking, usually it's the only way to avoid getting eaten/squashed/flamed immediately. Therefore in my moveset throwing Pikmin onto opponents reaps benefits, but they're perfectly capable of attacking on the ground. That's how I lose most of my Pikmin ;D.

On a perfectly related note with the whole gang business, there is a cross between one of the most basic enemy and a pikmin in it as another enemy, it says that it's due to a parasite pikmin, but I'm beginning to have my doubts. <.<

Ah, as long as we have that clear.

Gang **** would be an efficient way for such small creatures to defeat a powerful enemy... As far as the Pikmin go, would they be more quantity over quality or vice versa? So will Pikmin be easier to KO and come in larger packs or will they each be strong and come out in pairs and the such?

 

[Vali]

For the moveset? It kinda comes down to playstyle really. Some characters (like Marth for example) would be able to hit away a large group of Pikmin if you tried to swarm him due to his long reach and forward smash so in that case it'd be more keeping your distance a little, firing off a couple of well place Pikmin and then get in close while he tries to manage a multiple enemy assault. For some characters that have a large amount of elemental attacks again it'd be great to pick up a large amount of the opposite immunity to give Olimar the edge and so it'd be more quality, although swarming him with them couldn't hurt .

The quality/quantity game would also help for when trying to amass your Pikmin army, as using Pikmin effectively as a distraction could help you place yourself nicely for some mass Pick-a-Piking and then you have the quantity to use as you see fit. Besides I think it's not secret that some characters aren't very good at dealing with multiple enemies and in that case a full on assault by throwing pikmin infront, behind and ontop of them could really screw them over, especially if you ran in and started comboing them with some low knockback moves.

In the games though it's definitely more a quality thing, quantity gets eaten in...er...large amounts?

Edit: I've posted the moveset along with a tweak or 2 and a super smash move over in the now-bumped Captain Olimer thread, have a gander but i'm all for keeping the discussion going here since this thread will probably get looked at more anyway.

 

[Johnknight1]

Boo! Another lame update. Rather than get two previously confirmed characters, we only get one. Not cool.

BOO!

In other news, I'm starting a list of runner up characters that didn't quite make my roster predictions. Check out my first post, if you're interested. Also, let me know who else you think is worthy of being recognized as a potential playable character in Brawl.

Sounds intresting enough.

I can definitly see Skull Kid and Imp Midna being in Brawl (although, probably not both...) but I can't see why anyone would prefer old characters like Shiek and Mewtwo over new characters. I want Brawl to be a completely unique Smash Bros, not Melee 2.0.

Well I want it to basically be Melee 2.0, but with better dodge rolling, air dodging, moded Wavedashing (Luigi=wayy too mucn, Link=wayy too little), + new features, characters, modes, items, options, online, etc. Basically improve everything, and keep the tiers more balanced than ever.

WHAT?!?! OVER NINE THOUSAND?!?!?!

Yep, it is that randomly funny=over 9,000+wtf=???? Now you know why I and everyone else who has ever played Earthbound say "say fuzzy pickles!"

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=71872&highlight=sakurai+poll

I re-read Sakurai’s poll to see how many times Dixie was nominated. Care to guess of how many?

NONE! That’s right, Diddy got four nominations while K.Rool and Diddy/Dixie tagteam got one each.

What was that you were saying about majority rules, again?

She got nominated as pairing with Diddy somewhere, and Sakurai sadly liked the idea! Guess he doesn't know how great she'll be...

If we all agree that the CD-I games never happened, they don’t exist.

Since when did Link get horney over Ganon by saying "I wonder what Ganon's doing", and since when was there 3 CD-i Zelda games=???

I still think that 4 Pokemon is a fair number. I was equally tough on series like Fire Emblem, which only got two characters.

Pokemon was once the number two most searched word on the internet, and could have well been #1. Look at the stats and sales, Pokemon has sold almost 3 times as many units as tLOZ, in 10 years less time. FE deserves 3, however IMO.

How’s this for a change: we just replace Zelda’s down-b with a self destruct move. That is a change I could live with.

Nah, there are Zelda users that wouldn't be happy. How about change her b to Bdown, and make her B her light arrows.

If anyone refuses to play Brawl because their favorite character was nerfed or replaced, they don’t deserve to play the game. Any reasonable person would just choose another character like Pit or Meta Knight.

I know, but keep in mind there are crazy people out there...wayyyy tooo many of them. Seriously, 12,000+ people signed a boycott of Cappcom because Devil May Cry 4 isn't a PS3 exclusive, and will also appear on the PC and 360. **** f****** n00bs can go burn in HELL!!! *evil laugh*

Tom Nook could just as likely be the new god-tier, Kahn is unlikely but infinitly more awesome than any character I cut and the Black Knight is more worthy of being in Brawl than Roy was of being included in Melee.

Kahn is cool, but not going to happen. Nook is cool and all, but he's no fighter, and could you imagine a racoon being the next god tier like Pickachu, Kirby, and Ness were in SSB64, or Marth, Fox, and Falco in SSBM=? I think not, and he'd be a low tier character jsut like the rejected Pichu.

Falco may have appeared in every SF game, but his role has never been more important than Slippy’s and the recent games I’ve played (Adventures and Assault) have given far greater emphasis on Wolf and Krystal.

Only because Wolf has teamed with Fox, and Krystal is new to the series, and is the new major character. In Coomand Falco, Krystal, and Wolf are pretty much equally important, in SF Falco plays a huge roll, and in SF64 Wolf is a just as important as Falco. Plus Falco's got a huge fanbase, and Sakurai would disappoint many SSBM and SF fans if Falco was cut.

As is made evident this week, Sakurai will do whatever the heck he wants – regardless of what the fans think they want. I’m pretty sure a creative genius such as he will not be content to simply copy Melee’s roster. I strongly suspect that many of the minor characters like Sheik and Falco will be cut in favor of new additions.

But he'll definitely keep the fans in mind, and do mostly what they want, and some of what he wants.

Almost all his standard attacks are copied from Mario and his B-attacks are mostly variations on Mario’s attacks. Luigi is the golden standard for a clone: he’s original enough that he feels like a completely original character.

So he's a clo-riginal=??? He's original, but what based off a clone. He's the golden image of a clone character, and should be what all clones should dream of being, original but without losing his old feel. If Sakurai can do this once successfully with Luigi, why can't he do it with more characters, like Roy and Falco.

Nook represents an entire series. Falco is just a supporting character. Falco is not more important than Nook.

Falco is a mysterious character in a lot of ways, and isn't just a supoporting characters. He's one of the main characters in all the Star Fox games, and was the 3rd most important character in SF and SF64 (only Andross and Fox are more important), 4th or 5th most important character in Star Fox Adventures (the low ppoint of the series, but still a **** fine game), the 4th or so important character in Assault, and anywhere from the 2nd to 5th most important character in Command (which has sooo many multiple ending).

Nook is just a racoon who sells you stuff, and stays in his shop all day, and is the person who is in charge of building your house. That's nowhere as important as Falco, who's the 2nd best member of Star Fox, and definitely the most mysterious.

Crono is a possibly, but Sora strikes me as a more unique addition. I could be wrong in that regard as I’ve never played either of their games. Also Sora is on Sakurai’s poll.

Chrono Trigger is much more well know that Kingdom Hearts, and many consider it to be the best RPG ever made, and some even call it the greatest game ever made. Crono isn't on it, but he'd be a great addition to the series. I can't imagine Sora's moveset though, I mean c'mon Sora can fly, has several "OVER NINE-THOUSANNNNNDDDD" move combos, etc. Crono however I could imagine, since in Chrono Trigger he isn't too rediculously strong.

I know Geno is owned by Square, I did list him under third party characters after all. I just think that if Nintendo wants to get the Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts crowd to buy Brawl in large numbers, they a Square rep from one of those games, not the Mario universe.

Have you seen how popular he is. It's crazy, he's as big as Crono basically on the SWF. I understand where you are coming from, but if someone made it from Square Enix other than Geno or Crono, it would be a character in DQ IX to publisize them, much like Roy in Melee, simply because Sora would easily be overpowered.

Let me be clear: I’m not saying that Sakurai would put in Belmont over Sonic IF HE HAD A CHOICE. But the hard part isn’t deciding which characters to include, its negotiating with companies like Konami over how many zeros it will take before they sign off on a character's inclusion inclusion. And since the roster was likely finalized last year, I’m not convinced that the suits at Nintendo and Sega were able to reach a deal in time.

Well, the Sonic series has been in a drought of GOOD games ever since SA 2 (wayy back when), and Sonic's apperance could get sales up, along with Sonic's popularity and dignity recomposed, since basically all the new Sonic games have no meaning watsoever. I'm sure that Megaman very likely could have been put in already, since Capcom and Nintendo have been on good grounds forever.

I mean, c'mon Capcom helped make 3 LOZ games, including my fav 2D one, ALTTP, plus their main man Megaman was basically born on the NES, and there are tons of Megaman games on every Nintendo system. I'm not sure or not Nintendo is done negotiating the 3rd party characters or not, but if they want the biggest 3rd party characters Nintendo will go for Sonic and Megaman.

Also, if Nintendo wants one to please the fans (other than Sonic and Megaman), they'll give us either Geno or Crono, because Sora isn't going to happen. Megaman and Sonic have the most fans out of all these, and next to that is Snake, who we all should know it confirmed, so we'll basically all the big names in video gaming.

True, Kojima’s influence was the greatest factor in Snake’s appearing, but he doesn’t own the character, Konami does – and they also own Belmont. After all they starred together in the Smash Bros rip off Dream Mix Tv World Fighters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamMix_TV_World_Fighters

I wouldn't make bets on Belmont being in, but I wouldn't neccissarily be surprised if Belmont made it, though I think Bomberman is more likely, seeing how he is in bigger games today that Belmont is. Still, you never know what will happen, but I'm guessing sakurai will get the biggest, baddest, and the best=MEGAMAN!!!

Those aren’t bad choices. I particularly think that Issac stands a decent chance.

Ya, but I'm not sure if Issac is considered a 2nd or 3rd party character. Anyone know=??? If he's 2nd party this he stands a pretty decent chance, but if third party he doesn't stand much of a chance.

I admit it: I’ve never played a FF game.

OMG, I pity you. Please tell me you have played Donkey Kong Country 1, 2, or 3 at least, considering you haven't probably played Chrono Trigger....

However, I do plan on buying FFIII for the DS after I beat Super Paper Mario.

Well that's good, because now i don't have to call a therapist. SPM, ahh good game, good game....

Okay, but there are also equally good reaons that apply to someone like Kahn, who hasn’t had the privilege of appearing in a Smash Bros game yet.

1) He appeared in Elite Beat Agents, the most critically acclaimed DS game of 2006.

2) He represents a currently relevant franchise.

3) Kahn is also awesome. Agents Are GOOOOOOOOOOO!

4) Kahn could even more original than G&W. I magine a moveset made up entirely of dance moves!

5-10)
“Shut UP! That’s why!”

1.Then why is NEW Super mario Bros. the best selling game on the DS (unless Pokemon DP already outsold it ALREADY), and is just as highly rated, if not higher, plus it rivals the best DS games out there.

2.So is GAW, plus he's a classic that shall never be forgotten! GAW started the biggest gaming company's gaming career!

3.I agree, he;s cool, and he would be intresting to see in Brawl, but he doesn't stand to great of a chance..

4.A dance move character would be nice, but the whole 2D, unlike any other character is nowhere greater than in GAW. He's unique, awsome, and he adds something no other character could possibly, or will ever add. Kahn is cool, but GAW is what started Nintendo in video gaming, and I don't see them dropping him.

5.-10. I'm betting you can't wait for the next season of 24!

I don’t know much about Earthbound, but I’d say that, objectively speaking, Poo is a lot cooler than Paula.

Paula is much stronger and is far more adapt in PSI, and would mainly use PSI and bashing (pysical attacks). Poo uses a sword, and has one real strong PSI move, but his main skill is his unique swordsmanship. I still think Jeff would work best (he can make guns and stuff), but Paula is most likely, other than Lucas. I'm hoping for Lucas, so we can finally force Nintendo to bring Mother 3 to NA and Europe, much like FE, and so we can play the newest and super awsome main character in the Mother series.

Hey! You broke the rules. I said to make a list with 40 characters total – with every clone counting as 1/3 of one character slot as they take less development time. Meh, I’ll give you 7.5/10 this time.

I didn't see tha rule, and if I cut out anyone, I'd cut (in this order)....Geno, Dark Samus , Deoxys , Lucas , and Midna . Happy now, because now I am depressed=not really, but I really like those five.

Miis are aweseome!

Duh, but I don't see 45, and they were the last ones I cut. If there were 45 I'd see the Mii's in, unless Geno made it, of course.

Doexys and Lucario both stand an excellent chance of making it, unless people stop buying those dang Pokemon games any time soon.

Pokemon is actually a pretty good series, and is strangely enough made by many of the people who made Earthbound. Be you didn't know that, or see that coming! Anyways, I hope both of them make it, and they both stand exellent chances.

Like I’ve said, I wouldn’t bet the farm on Klaona or Vatti making it, but it’s not impossible.

Who is Kloanoa=???, sounds familiar, but i still don't know who it is. Vatti definitely should be considered, though he more than likey won't make the cut.

I don’t think any Japanese only characters deserve a place in Smash, and that includes Marth and Staffy. But that’s just me.

Marth I could see easily, Staffy stands a fair 20-25% chance at best. He's neat, but not very likely, so don't get your hopes up Staffy fans, because chance are he isn't going to make it into Brawl.

Side note: Wiseguy you should put Mach Rider, Issac, Commander Kahn (he probably isn't going to happen), Sora, and Tom Nook to the runner up slots, since Mach Rider is the only one of them with a decent chance. O and don't forget Paper Mario as well, cuz we all know Paper Mario is totally awsome=anyone disagrees then Mike Tyson will bite their ear off!!!

 

[Classic-Black]

She got nominated as pairing with Diddy somewhere, and Sakurai sadly liked the idea! Guess he doesn't know how great she'll be...

That's because she's worthless on her own. Period

Chrono Trigger is much more well know that Kingdom Hearts, and many consider it to be the best RPG ever made, and some even call it the greatest game ever made. Crono isn't on it, but he'd be a great addition to the series. I can't imagine Sora's moveset though, I mean c'mon Sora can fly, has several "OVER NINE-THOUSANNNNNDDDD" move combos, etc. Crono however I could imagine, since in Chrono Trigger he isn't too rediculously strong.

Wait...you just said Chrono Trigger is better known than Kingdom Hearts, I call bull****, especially since Chrono Trigger was only on the SNES (PS1 if you count the re-release). And how the hell isn't Chrono ridiculously strong? what the hell kind of game did YOU play?

Also, if Nintendo wants one to please the fans (other than Sonic and Megaman), they'll give us either Geno or Crono, because Sora isn't going to happen. Megaman and Sonic have the most fans out of all these, and next to that is Snake, who we all should know it confirmed, so we'll basically all the big names in video gaming.

Chrono gets the retro vote, Geno gets the cult following, Sora is far more recent and mainstream than both of them

Also, Unless Nintendo aquired Camelot, than Issac and any GS members are third party

 

[Johnknight1]

That's because she's worthless on her own. Period

Obviously you aren't a DKC 2 or 3 fan like me, and have probably not seen how awsome she is in those games. Seriously, have you played DKC 2 or 3=???=awsome!

Wait...you just said Chrono Trigger is better known than Kingdom Hearts, I call bull****, especially since Chrono Trigger was only on the SNES (PS1 if you count the re-release). And how the hell isn't Chrono ridiculously strong? what the hell kind of game did YOU play?

Better know as a classic legendary game vs. Kingdom Hearts, in which Kingdom Hearts isn't at the age of becoming a classic yet. Crono isn't overpowered, and he has some sweet moves, but Sora in Brawl=make MetaKnight look like bottom tier, and that's coming straight from a KH fan!

Chrono gets the retro vote, Geno gets the cult following, Sora is far more recent and mainstream than both of them

Crono is the star of two legendary games=Chrono Trigger&Cross (only Trigger counts), Geno is one of the main and party member characters in one of the most popular Mario games of all time=Super mario RPG, and CoM is a medicore game (though KHI&II are friggen amazing!, minus Winne the pooh and the little Mermaid). So ya, Crono or Geno have the best chances.

Also, Unless Nintendo aquired Camelot, than Issac and any GS members are third party[/QUOTE]

Camelot did mario Golf, Tennis, and a few other games for Nintedo. i think they're 2nd party, and I think Nintendo published GS while Camelot produced it. Yae, that means they have good chances!

 

[Classic-Black]

Obviously you aren't a DKC 2 or 3 fan like me, and have probably not seen how awsome she is in those games. Seriously, have you played DKC 2 or 3=???=awsome!

I've played DKC 1, 2, and 3. I will; admit that I didn't enjoy 3 as much as the first two, but I still don't find Dixie that appealing, at least to the extent that she would be a decent character without riding on Diddy's coattails.

Better know as a classic legendary game vs. Kingdom Hearts, in which Kingdom Hearts isn't at the age of becoming a classic yet. Crono isn't overpowered, and he has some sweet moves, but Sora in Brawl=make MetaKnight look like bottom tier, and that's coming straight from a KH fan!

again, how is Chrono not overpowered? by the Endgame (which is where the characters seem to stem from) You've got two levels of lighting, and Luminaire witch is the Ultimate Kill-all. You've got seriously damaging sword techs, and a chrono with maxed stats and the best armor and weaponry. Crono is overpowered the same way Sora, or any main hero is by the end of the game. He's a Parisite God killer. Now, I don't think Sora will be included, but to say he's overpowered whi;le Crono isn't is laughable. [/quote]

Crono is the star of two legendary games=Chrono Trigger&Cross (only Trigger counts), Geno is one of the main and party member characters in one of the most popular Mario games of all time=Super mario RPG, and CoM is a medicore game (though KHI&II are friggen amazing!, minus Winne the pooh and the little Mermaid). So ya, Crono or Geno have the best chances.

I never said that Chrono and Geno didn't have chances, only that one is purely retro, and the other developed a cult following. The simple fact is that Sora is more recent, and while CoM is his only nintendo related title, is not where most of his popularity stems from (the same with Snake.) ALso Crono only starred in Chrono trigger, he cameod in Cross as one of those 'ghost' children along with Nadia and Lucca. In Radical Dreamers, the game from which Chrono Cross was born, the only recurring player from the first game was Magus, under the alias of Gil. By the time CC was released, this was no longer the case.

 

[Bowserlick]

I am going to take the 40 character challenge. This list is comprised of predicted choices, although there are certain biases. So do not be too alarmed by odd choices. Although I think the list does have a high degree of reason. Clones are worth one third of a character and a character counts for one as stated by the rules. Here we go.

Mario Series

1. Mario- Confirmed

What he can bring: Mario seems like he will be the jack of all trades once again. He has multiple ways to recover, a projectile, and a reflector coupled wth balance stats. Other characters use him as the standard.

2. Peach- Damsel in distress turned heroine

What she can bring: She would be a lighter character with weak attacks, but with random elements of greatness. I say she could be balanced by splitting up her great attributes into emotional categories. The B move (Toad shield) can be a random emotion generator. Her model will show attributes which would register her as calm, happy, sad, or angry.

When she is happy she will be able to perform her float. When calm her turnips receive a slight bonus of being the stronger variety and her forward Smash has a greater chance of randomly selecting the most powerful tool. When sad she gains fast running speed (which she lacked in Melee) and leaves behind a trail of tears that makes following characters lose traction. When angry she gains her broken down Smash.

3. Bowser- Nintendo's main villain

What he can bring: He can be made into a tank. I say Gannondorf should still average out to deal the most damage, but Bowser should be the walking wall that absorbs hits and dishes out slow, but incrediablly strong smash attacks. He needs to resist stun and be able to instantly break shields with some moves such as his forward Smash and down B.

4. Yoshi- Mario's steed, ally, and friend

What he can bring: More wackiness. He should get weird variations of any and all techniques. He already has his super egg shield and his armored second jump. Both have strengths offset by glaring weaknesses. Crawling, wall jumping, tongue edge grabbing and other attributes, if given to Yoshi, should have additional strengths offset by weird weaknesses as well.

5. Wario- Greedy rival to Mario

What he can bring: Humor. It seems like he will be a comic relief character with his wacky dancing and low brow fart humor. But he will also be an average sized heavyweight (speculation) with strength and some extra running speed. But it looks like he is gonna have some lag as well. Interesting combination.

6. Toad- Last of the Big Eight

What he can Bring: Toad can be the anxious, nervous character who really does not want to fight. But like in SMB 2 he would posses strength, namely in throws. I see him as a nervous fellow with good running skills, but horrible vertical jumps. He can have rocket shoes to reference his Mario Kart skills, as well as the ability to juggle and stack bombs like in Wario Woods. While light, he would be the only character beisdes DK able to carry a jump with a crate.

7. Luigi- Hero

What he can Bring: I have this weird hunch that maybe Luigi will just be scrapped. But then again, that would be hard to believe. I was thinking of giving him a vaccum and ghost based moveset, but that is treading on king DeDeDe's toes. He should have wind attacks. So is Luigi stuck being a semiclone?

Well, I think all of Luigi's moves should be different then Mario's, following Luigi's flamboyant theme, but still look kinda similar.

Legend of Zelda Series

1. Link- Confirmed

What he can bring: Projectiles to claim the stage, plus fairly strong sword play. Seems like he will be like his Melee counterpart with a bit more range and perhaps improved projectiles.

2. Zelda without Sheik- Zamus looks like Sheik's replacement. I do not see the morph ability (while a cool idea in theory) returning. People rather play as a character they select. Even if done right the morph ability still polarizes an audience, I think people would rather have two forms as two different characters.

What she can bring: This is kinda tough. She must be in the game because she is part of the triforce connection. Link has the triforce of courage and this is represented by an adaptable playstyle in battle. He is always ready and equipped to fight any enemy. Gannondorf has the triforce of strength which is represented with brute force. So what about the triforce of wisdom. The morph ability did fit the mold. But I cannot see it returning as it was in Melee.

3. Gannondorf- Constant threat to Hyrule

What he can bring to the game: Gannondorf must be the powerhouse again, just with his own moves.

4. Midna on Wolf Link- A new and exciting addition to the Zelda series

What she can bring to the game: Well, it would be the first mount and ride combination as well as the first four legged beast (unless you want to count Pikachu). A team that is played as a single character. I think people will like this. Plus I cannot really see ether character alone, they fought as a team.

And a lunging wolf and shadow magic is just too good of a combination to pass up. I see the team as an aggressive, offensive machine. However the long wolf body as well as the rider with her big head will create a big target with only average weight.

Kirby Series

1. Kirby - Confirmed

What he can bring: I think he is going to become the powerful puff. Why? Well I have a few theories.

I predict Jiggs will be cut. While she has a fun moveset (and one of my favorite characters), there will be (specualtion) more floaty jumpers. And these floaty jumpers will have cooler moves, flashier specials, and a little more variety. Plus her popularity seems entirely gone. So Kirbs has to step up and be the strong puff, returning to at least a portion of his greatness in the original. He will be a light body with a mix bag of specials, strong but somewhat slow attacks, and a great recovery.

2. Metaknight- Confirmed

What he can bring: In a way I think he will replace Jiggs as the aerial profecient puff. He will have rapid, low range attacks as well as great recovery. I say he will be heavier then Kirby, but lacking knockout moves.

3. King DeDeDe- Inept ruler/ sometimes villain and sometimes hero/ a confused penguin

What he can bring: A floater with some beef and a hammer. Also he can be a wind based character, using gusts of air to inflate, to suck characters in and shoot them out, as well as assualting oppenents with gales.

I have a feeling that the IC's will be gone, but that doesn't mean mallets have to go as well.

DK series

1. DK- Original Mario villain and now a hero in his own right

What he can bring: Versatile throws (I say he grabs on both sides of his body in order to snatch two enemies and smash them together before tossing them), an array of varying spikes and meteors, and some agility as a heavyweight.

2. Diddy- DK's litle buddy

What he can bring: I am not a fan of Diddy, but many people are. It seems like he would be tough to ignore. While the Dixie/Diddy tag team idea does intrigue me it would alienate key Diddy fans. Diddy can be a hip, quick, althetic fighter. Plus he has enough moves for a varied fighting style.

3. Kaptain K. Rool- DK's villain

What he can bring: A pirate based moveset which would just be awesome. I know I know, he has other forms and personalities. And because he has multiple personality disorder and seems unstable, maybe he should use other moves then just from the second DK game. But I really like a moveset just based around a giant alligater looting, plundering, and firing cannoballs. A heavyweight with an arsenal.

F-Zero Series

1. Captain Falcon- Fast and powerful bounty hunter

What he can bring: More of the same. Fast with laggy powerful moves, combo abilities, and obnoxious, LOUD catch phrases. He needs to announce more moves (although only a percentage of the time). And the knee prolly should be a little weaker. it negates very little need for the Falcon Punch (not there would be a need anyways).

StarFox series

1. Fox- Confirmed

What he can bring: A fast aggressive character with good potential vertical killing. He just needs to be focused and not allowed to have as many advantages as in Melee. Being quick, strong, possessing a spike, having long recovery, and weight (fastfalling makes him unable to die vertically unless at very high percentages, and his horizantal recovery range makes him a hard one to kill) is a bit much.

2. Krystal- Heroine

What she can bring: Another female character. But some fun with a staff as well. She can perhaps catapault with it, clothesline with it, ect. A lighter character possessing range, speed, and projectile. In a way she might be compared to a Young Link with some more range.

3. Andross (scientists with a body)- The true Fox Villain

What he can bring: A high tech, gadget moveset involving traps and technique. You can read my thread if you really want to know my reasoning and thoughts for him. I feel he can offer much more then Wolf (malicious Fox) or Falco (grumpy Fox).

Pokemon series

1. Pikachu- Confirmed

What he can bring: Hit and run tactics, air game, and hard hitting smashes. His weaknesses include low range regular attacks with weak knockback and damage accumulation. And light weight.

2. Mewtwo- Pokemon's villain

What he can bring: Executed poorly, but the idea was in the right direction. He should be a little heavier, but his A attacks are right on. Mewtwo should be an evasive creature that relies on his specials to weaken the enemy or protect himself. This way he avoids the opponent's attacks with his teleport and dodge, absorbs the hits with a special (maybe for a down B: a shield that can absorb 30 percent damage per stock), while disarming his foes. (Forward B can be disable: Turns off a random A attack for the rest of the stock life. If hit with disable again the enemy regains the missing A attack but loses another).

3. Lucario - Recent popular pokemon

What he can bring: Little Mac is a good idea in theory. He is a retro character with a fan base and a boxing background. But he seems kinda stale. Lucario can offer a punching moveset with energy spheres, flashy kicks, and unique specials. I say it is the way to go.

Metroid Series

1. Samus- Confirmed

What she can bring: I think she was well balanced in Melee and should more or less return very similar with better graphics. A nice armored, ranged fighter.

2. Zamus - Alternative version of Samus and fixed Sheik (speculation)/ I think she will be her own selectable character on the selection screen

What she can bring: A fast, combolicious playstyle offset by weak hits and less stamina.

3. Ridley- Villain

What he can bring: A ranged fighter with flight. Ridley does not have to be huge or broken. He could have similar weight to Samus, but his lanky body would be easier to hit. I can see him similar to Samus, with less focus on range and more focus on hand to hand combat.

Earthbound series

1. Lucas - Ness's replacement

What he can bring: An updated version of Ness (heard he had similar powers). Ness always had bad graphics in my eyes. Lucas can be a fresh start with a very close but improved moveset. Plus he can start a Mother 3 import wave. Earthbound isn't that big (in my opinion) to require more then one addition.

Fire Emblem series

1. Marth- Original lord

What he can bring: Strategy and range. His specials were well made, they reflect the stretgic battle game he comes from. But he is a little ridiculous right now (along with some other characters). Grab range is too great and his forward Smash should not be able to kill better then Bowser's Smash (even witht he tipper).

Why no more Lords? Yes FE is a popular series. But if the game is going to have a good chunk of sword fighters, why not pick one sword fighter per series for variety and spice rather then having four or five FE lords (which many people seem to crave).

Golden Sun

1. Issac- psi-energy hero

What he can bring: Sword and magic combination which is still not really apparent in Smash to any large degree. This is variety right here. Plus he references a popular rpg. Then again I do not know that much about him, but from the wiki article and from posting fans, I deemed him worthy and likely to enter Brawl. Plus a composer of the game is doing music for the next Smashing installment.

Kid Icarus series

1. Pit- cherub hero

What he can bring: A versatile blade master with a manuervable projectile. Seems like a different version of Link. Better recovery and speed, while sacrificing power and hard hitting projectiles (speculation). I think his light beam arrows will do damage, but have little knockback.

Animal Crossing Series

1. Tom Nook- merchant

What he can bring: I see him as a wacky updated G&W. He uses random tools for a hilarious battle. Fishing rod for a grab, leaves that poof into furniture for projectiles, and an arsenal of shovels, seeds, and other goodies. For a dash I can see him rolling on a carpet which unfolds, leaving a patterned rug behind on the battle course.

Pikmin series

1. Captain Olimar- pilot and pikmin enslaver

What he can bring: A unique "duo" fighting system involving a horde of Pikmin that follow him. The Pikmin would mostly be used for special attacks, but could be knocked away. If a special attack is used before they can regroup it would be weaker.

Balloon Fighter series

1. Balloon fighter- Balloon Fighter

What he can bring: He could have a moveset based on floating and cleats. I am sure Sakurai could updaate his design like Pit's and find a suitable method of attacking. I see the balloon fighter as n old fashioned pilot. Young and cartoonish but geared out in WWI goggles with a scarf wrapped around his neck. And of course balloons hovering above. He should be the master of the air, his ground attacks serving only to juggle the oppenent.

Mach Rider series

1. Mach Rider- Future Hero

What he can bring: A rival to Captain Falcon and a representative of a different retro series. Is he too similar? Na. His game and moves are different. Plus Sakurai can give him a cool futuristic design. Mach rider should have quick attacks, and dodges and a consistent above average running speed (but still not as fast as the real speedsters). While CF is about aerial, and Snake looks like a ambush, opurtunist, Mach Rider would be like a pesky wasp. Stay near the enemy and sting him or her with hits before dodging to the side.



Stafy Series

1. Stafy- Japanese character (I know what Sakurai said, but Stafy appears in Mario games. I think the transition over seas is being setup and Smash is a way to import the games).

What he can bring: I do not know much about Stafy. But a star design, while simple, offers alot of variability in movements. A drill, a cartwheel, a ninja star, a falling star, a barrage of pokes, ect.


Other

1. Mii - Personal character

What Mii can bring: The idea seems too wacky to pass up, even if I am not a true fan of it. A moveset based on sport games witht he option of customizing your own head. The mii's have been doing a good job of luring in nongamers to the Wii. So it might expand the Smash audience.

Plus he seems like a future version of G&W.

Third Party

1. Snake- Confirmed

What he can bring: Explosives and juggles. That is what it seems like his main moves are. Instead of pure speed like CF, he evades by stealth and by putting a grenade between himself and the enemy. But I think his aerial attacks will be slower and his smash attacks weaker. Although his specials will be more useful and provide him with a little more strategy.

2. Geno- Mario's ally in Mario RPG

What he can bring: A fighting puppet. Projectile base with range fighting attacks. Average at fighting, but good at softening the enemy by blugeoning them with pellets, stars, and whirling energy discs.

3. Sonic- Mario's unofficial rival

What he can bring: Speed as well as a larger audience. The Sonic and Mario rivalry is still kicking, best to refresh it before it dies.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Wow, Bowserlick: one FE rep? That alone really takes alot of the wind out of your proverbial sails.

And only three Pokemon? Both series aren't diminishing in value to Nintendo or Ninty's fans, and isn't that a bit more important than the fighting mechanics (which can always be changed) of a fan-service-fueled fighting game?

P.S. I'm surprised to see this thread back on the first page: I thought it lost long ago. And what's all this about a "40 Character Challenge"?

 

[Drascin]

Better know as a classic legendary game vs. Kingdom Hearts, in which Kingdom Hearts isn't at the age of becoming a classic yet. Crono isn't overpowered, and he has some sweet moves, but Sora in Brawl=make MetaKnight look like bottom tier, and that's coming straight from a KH fan!

I still stand by my statement that there's no way in hell Sora is in, but I disagree: he can easily be nerfed. I mean, to cite a few, Samus has been able to wipe out the population of entire planets (planets that, I might add, were filled to the brim with monsters and top-of-the-line technological pirate defenses), Mewtwo in his movie was able to take out buildings with a thought and in the brink of annihilating the human race, Ganondorf is... well, Ganondorf, and yet, all of those were in melee no problem. So it's not a matter of being too strong, because nerfing is one of the easiest things in this world .

 

[Mini Mic]

40 Characters eh? My incredibly biased turn!

Mario Series (7)

- Mario
- Luigi
- Peach
- Bowser
- Yoshi
- Wario
- Baby Bowser

Not a huge fan of baby bowser but i figure they'll probably add a new mario character since wario has kina moved away from being a mario only character and bb seems like the next most likely character to me, he seems to be in just about every mario game nowadays. Apart from that the rest are about the same

Zelda Series (6)

- Link
- Zelda/ Sheik
- Ganondorf
- Young Link (cel)
- Either Vaati, Tingle or Midna in some shape or form

Once again pretty standard pics and yes i think Sheik will still make it, her riggedness meant she was popular in the last one so she will probably return but not as good. Can't decide between the 3 bottom ones i tihnk Tingle is most likely partly because of popularity (i guarentee more people know of him then Vaati), he has his own game plus they might just add him for a novelty charater. Midna's chance comes from the relevance of TP to the Wii.

Metroid (3)

- Samus
- Zamus
- Ridley

I think they will add one more since Sakurai respects the series and i think Ridley is the most likely.

Pokemon (4)

- Pikachu
- Jigglypuff
- Lucario
- Deoxys

Hmmm... Bit unsure about this one. I've put 4 like Melee but i think due to its popularity there will be more then that. I got rid of Pichu for obvious reasons and replaced Mewtwo with Deoxys because they only need 1 Psycic and he is more relevant. Not too sure about this one.

DK Series (2)

- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong

Baby steps... I don't think they will lash out and put a ton of DK chars in it since the past 2 have had only 1 and since DK isn't as big as he used to be it lowers chars chances though i would like K. Rool to be in it.

Star fox (3)

- Fox
- Falco
- Krystal

Sorry don't think Wolf would be original enough to put in like Krystal would plus i think Falco will make a return because of popularity but unlike Wolf he was in the last SSB.

Kirby (3)

- Kirby
- Metaknight
- King Dedede

I am still perplexed how Dededed hasn't been in it before

Fire Emblem (3)

- Ike
- Marth
- Some other FE char (sorry i've only played the Sacred Stones!)

Very popular, Sakurai likes it etc etc...

Earthbound (1)

- Ness

F-Zero X (1)

- Captin Falcon

Kid Icarus (1)

- Pit

Another character from KI!! You're pushing your luck there boy!

Golden Sun (1)

- Isaac

I just want him in soo bad! Char owned by Nintendo so i guess he is kinda 1st party plus he is from a well knon as renound RPG on a nintendo platform that wasn't made by S-E! That's pretty rare plus there are endless possibilities with movesets due to his psyenergy.

3rd Party (3)

- Sonic
- Snake
- One other? (megaman, Simon Belmont, possible Square char that isn't Sephiroth)

And the Rest (2)

- Game and Watch
- Ice climbers

Whatever man who cares about these two really?

 

[Bowserlick]

Response in red.

Wow, Bowserlick: one FE rep? That alone really takes alot of the wind out of your proverbial sails.

I have scouted other lists and there is a common theme. Lack of new franchises. People will pack the StarFox franchise, Pokemon franchise, and Fire Emblem franchise leaving maybe two spots for two other unrepresented Nintendo series.

Fire Emblem only really needs one lord to showcase its game. The lords do nt sound distinguished enough to me to include more. Want more varied sword characters? Add sword characters from other games so Brawl is fresh and more diverse. Would you really want another lord similar to Marth replace Issac from Golden sun ho can bring magic and swordplay to Smash.

And only three Pokemon? Both series aren't diminishing in value to Nintendo or Ninty's fans, and isn't that a bit more important than the fighting mechanics (which can always be changed) of a fan-service-fueled fighting game?

I can see four pokemon. I just didn't know which one to include. I am not satisfied with my choice of Mach Rider (seems like a mix of CF and Snake) and I still realy am not sold on the idea of Mii. But which pokemon to include.

Deoxys and Blaziken do notseem unique enough to me to warrant inclusion. If I add another pokemon to my list, it could not have the electric, steel, fighting, or psychic types because these are already represented.

P.S. I'm surprised to see this thread back on the first page: I thought it lost long ago. And what's all this about a "40 Character Challenge"?

 

[Wiseguy]

Well, it looks like Sakurai has taken the weekend off from updating his site - but I am not so cruel. I just updated my Runner Up category with yet another character. (Hold you applause, please.)

On the Wiseguy thread, DEBATE LIVES!

Well I want it to basically be Melee 2.0, but with better dodge rolling, air dodging, moded Wavedashing (Luigi=wayy too mucn, Link=wayy too little), + new features, characters, modes, items, options, online, etc. Basically improve everything, and keep the tiers more balanced than ever.

I disagree somewhat. If Brawl is ever going to get out of Melee's shadow, the Smash Team needs to focus on making Brawl its own unique game - and that inevitably means cutting old characters, stages and items in favor of all new ones. Though I completly agree on adding as many new features as possible and balancing the tier list.

Pokemon was once the number two most searched word on the internet, and could have well been #1. Look at the stats and sales, Pokemon has sold almost 3 times as many units as tLOZ, in 10 years less time. FE deserves 3, however IMO.

Yeah, but the series just doesn't have the historical signifinca to the videogames industry that Mario or Zelda have. Pokemon is great for those who enjoy it, but I wouldn't put it in the same leauge as Mario or Zelda.

Nah, there are Zelda users that wouldn't be happy. How about change her b to Bdown, and make her B her light arrows.

I was joking about replacing Zelda's down-B with a self destruct (mostly...).

I think an entirely new moveset is the way to go - one based on her role in Twilight Princess.

Kahn is cool, but not going to happen. Nook is cool and all, but he's no fighter, and could you imagine a racoon being the next god tier like Pickachu, Kirby, and Ness were in SSB64, or Marth, Fox, and Falco in SSBM=? I think not, and he'd be a low tier character jsut like the rejected Pichu.

Kahn is unlikely, but he is also just the kind of surprise character Sakurai likes to include. By conventional logic, the relatively unknown Ness wouldn't have gotten in SSB 64, ICs and G&W would never have been considered for Melee and Snake wouldn't be in Brawl. Sakurai loves to surprise so someone LIKE Kahn is Brawl is a given.

Nook's appearance has no bearing on how powerful he will be. They could make him as weak or strong as they see fit.

Only because Wolf has teamed with Fox, and Krystal is new to the series, and is the new major character. In Coomand Falco, Krystal, and Wolf are pretty much equally important, in SF Falco plays a huge roll, and in SF64 Wolf is a just as important as Falco. Plus Falco's got a huge fanbase, and Sakurai would disappoint many SSBM and SF fans if Falco was cut.

Falco is important to the series, so his appearance in Melee was well deserved. But now you have two other worthy SF characters (Krystal and Wolf) waiting in the wings. The way I see it, Falco has already had his turn. Now its time for someone new to take his place.

So he's a clo-riginal=??? He's original, but what based off a clone. He's the golden image of a clone character, and should be what all clones should dream of being, original but without losing his old feel. If Sakurai can do this once successfully with Luigi, why can't he do it with more characters, like Roy and Falco.

Because there are more worthy characters who could be included as Luigified clones instead. I suspect Wolf will be Falco's new clone and the Black Knight will be Ike's.

Falco is a mysterious character in a lot of ways, and isn't just a supoporting characters. He's one of the main characters in all the Star Fox games, and was the 3rd most important character in SF and SF64 (only Andross and Fox are more important), 4th or 5th most important character in Star Fox Adventures (the low ppoint of the series, but still a **** fine game), the 4th or so important character in Assault, and anywhere from the 2nd to 5th most important character in Command (which has sooo many multiple ending).

Nook is just a racoon who sells you stuff, and stays in his shop all day, and is the person who is in charge of building your house. That's nowhere as important as Falco, who's the 2nd best member of Star Fox, and definitely the most mysterious.

Nook is more than just a "racoon who sells you stuff", he's the villian (and most important character) in Animal Crossing, a series that has enjoyed incredible success on both the Gamecube and DS. Nook is a maniacial slum lord who cons unsuspecting folk into buying his overpriced homes, and then watches them work themselves to death trying to pay off their huge debt. Soon, the player feels compelled to get a bigger house, and the cycle begins again. Basically, Nook is a metaphor for capitalism.

Conversly, Falco is a talking parrot who shoots at crap in his spaceship who's doomed to play seconf fiddle to a talking Fox for his entire existance.

And as any VGcats reader knows, Nook has a dark side:
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=169

Have you seen how popular he is. It's crazy, he's as big as Crono basically on the SWF. I understand where you are coming from, but if someone made it from Square Enix other than Geno or Crono, it would be a character in DQ IX to publisize them, much like Roy in Melee, simply because Sora would easily be overpowered.

Geno to really popular among longtime Nintendo fans, but I doubt that too many Square Enix fans care that much if he is included or not.

DQ IX has no main character, you create yours from scratch - so I don't think that is an option.

Sora, like Nook, could be as powerful or weak as they see fit. Smash is not a realistic depiction of any character's strength.

Well, the Sonic series has been in a drought of GOOD games ever since SA 2 (wayy back when), and Sonic's apperance could get sales up, along with Sonic's popularity and dignity recomposed, since basically all the new Sonic games have no meaning watsoever. I'm sure that Megaman very likely could have been put in already, since Capcom and Nintendo have been on good grounds forever.

I mean, c'mon Capcom helped make 3 LOZ games, including my fav 2D one, ALTTP, plus their main man Megaman was basically born on the NES, and there are tons of Megaman games on every Nintendo system. I'm not sure or not Nintendo is done negotiating the 3rd party characters or not, but if they want the biggest 3rd party characters Nintendo will go for Sonic and Megaman.

Also, if Nintendo wants one to please the fans (other than Sonic and Megaman), they'll give us either Geno or Crono, because Sora isn't going to happen. Megaman and Sonic have the most fans out of all these, and next to that is Snake, who we all should know it confirmed, so we'll basically all the big names in video gaming.

I know, any game company who be foolish to refuse to allow their character to be inlcuded - but they may demand a hefty price of admission and Nintendo knows that Smash will be a best seller anyway, so why would they pay it? Here's hoping you're right that Sega and Capcom see reason.

I wouldn't make bets on Belmont being in, but I wouldn't neccissarily be surprised if Belmont made it, though I think Bomberman is more likely, seeing how he is in bigger games today that Belmont is. Still, you never know what will happen, but I'm guessing sakurai will get the biggest, baddest, and the best=MEGAMAN!!!

I don’t know, the recent Castelvanias on DS have been fairly big hits. Also, Castelvania is ranked by many as one of the greatest game series ever. Also, Belmont would have a far more unique moveset.

Ya, but I'm not sure if Issac is considered a 2nd or 3rd party character. Anyone know=??? If he's 2nd party this he stands a pretty decent chance, but if third party he doesn't stand much of a chance.

I think Golden Sun is owned by Camelot – although they do have a strong partnership with Nintendo. If Sega or Capcom won’t play ball, Issac’s chances increase dramatically.

OMG, I pity you. Please tell me you have played Donkey Kong Country 1, 2, or 3 at least, considering you haven't probably played Chrono Trigger....

“However, I do plan on buying FFIII for the DS after I beat Super Paper Mario.”

Well that's good, because now i don't have to call a therapist. SPM, ahh good game, good game....

I played a little DKC back in the day over at my friend’s house. But my first game system was the N64, so I didn’t beat a single player game until I played LoZ: Majora’s Mask

1.Then why is NEW Super mario Bros. the best selling game on the DS (unless Pokemon DP already outsold it ALREADY), and is just as highly rated, if not higher, plus it rivals the best DS games out there.

2.So is GAW, plus he's a classic that shall never be forgotten! GAW started the biggest gaming company's gaming career!

3.I agree, he;s cool, and he would be intresting to see in Brawl, but he doesn't stand to great of a chance..

4.A dance move character would be nice, but the whole 2D, unlike any other character is nowhere greater than in GAW. He's unique, awsome, and he adds something no other character could possibly, or will ever add. Kahn is cool, but GAW is what started Nintendo in video gaming, and I don't see them dropping him.

5.-10. I'm betting you can't wait for the next season of 24!

1) EBA > New Super Mario Bros. Just ask IGN and Nintendo Power. Unfortunately, most DS owners failed to realize this…

2) G&W may have been big back in the day, but compared to most other Nintendo franchises, he’s irrelevant today. His Melee appearance was tribute enough. Now some other awesome character deserves the same treatment.

3) True, but he’s not any more unlikely than G&W was.

4) Is G&W really that original? Sure, he’s 2-D and he wacks people with a turtle, but compared to characters like Ice Climbers, Olimar and Mii he isn’t all that special.

5) You win that bet too. 24 is the greatest TV series ever! How am I ever going to be able to wait an entire year for season 7?!

Paula is much stronger and is far more adapt in PSI, and would mainly use PSI and bashing (pysical attacks). Poo uses a sword, and has one real strong PSI move, but his main skill is his unique swordsmanship. I still think Jeff would work best (he can make guns and stuff), but Paula is most likely, other than Lucas. I'm hoping for Lucas, so we can finally force Nintendo to bring Mother 3 to NA and Europe, much like FE, and so we can play the newest and super awsome main character in the Mother series.

Paula may have more impressive abilities in her game of origin, but Poo just strikes me as a more awesome character – in terms of appearance and personality. I think most people would agree.

I didn't see tha rule, and if I cut out anyone, I'd cut (in this order)....Geno, Dark Samus , Deoxys , Lucas , and Midna . Happy now, because now I am depressed=not really, but I really like those five.

Duh, but I don't see 45, and they were the last ones I cut. If there were 45 I'd see the Mii's in, unless Geno made it, of course.

Don’t you see? If some of the characters were clones, Geno, Deoxys and others wouldn’t have to be cut. We could have 45 characters, only 9 of them would be Luigified clones! what’s wrong with that?

Who is Kloanoa=???, sounds familiar, but i still don't know who it is. Vatti definitely should be considered, though he more than likey won't make the cut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klonoa

Klonoa was essentially the PS1 equivalent of Viewtiful Joe. He’s also been a few GBA games, I believe.

I am going to take the 40 character challenge. This list is comprised of predicted choices, although there are certain biases. So do not be too alarmed by odd choices. Although I think the list does have a high degree of reason. Clones are worth one third of a character and a character counts for one as stated by the rules. Here we go.

Mario Series

1. Mario- Confirmed

What he can bring: Mario seems like he will be the jack of all trades once again. He has multiple ways to recover, a projectile, and a reflector coupled wth balance stats. Other characters use him as the standard.

2. Peach- Damsel in distress turned heroine

What she can bring: She would be a lighter character with weak attacks, but with random elements of greatness. I say she could be balanced by splitting up her great attributes into emotional categories. The B move (Toad shield) can be a random emotion generator. Her model will show attributes which would register her as calm, happy, sad, or angry.

When she is happy she will be able to perform her float. When calm her turnips receive a slight bonus of being the stronger variety and her forward Smash has a greater chance of randomly selecting the most powerful tool. When sad she gains fast running speed (which she lacked in Melee) and leaves behind a trail of tears that makes following characters lose traction. When angry she gains her broken down Smash.

3. Bowser- Nintendo's main villain

What he can bring: He can be made into a tank. I say Gannondorf should still average out to deal the most damage, but Bowser should be the walking wall that absorbs hits and dishes out slow, but incrediablly strong smash attacks. He needs to resist stun and be able to instantly break shields with some moves such as his forward Smash and down B.

4. Yoshi- Mario's steed, ally, and friend

What he can bring: More wackiness. He should get weird variations of any and all techniques. He already has his super egg shield and his armored second jump. Both have strengths offset by glaring weaknesses. Crawling, wall jumping, tongue edge grabbing and other attributes, if given to Yoshi, should have additional strengths offset by weird weaknesses as well.

5. Wario- Greedy rival to Mario

What he can bring: Humor. It seems like he will be a comic relief character with his wacky dancing and low brow fart humor. But he will also be an average sized heavyweight (speculation) with strength and some extra running speed. But it looks like he is gonna have some lag as well. Interesting combination.

6. Toad- Last of the Big Eight

What he can Bring: Toad can be the anxious, nervous character who really does not want to fight. But like in SMB 2 he would posses strength, namely in throws. I see him as a nervous fellow with good running skills, but horrible vertical jumps. He can have rocket shoes to reference his Mario Kart skills, as well as the ability to juggle and stack bombs like in Wario Woods. While light, he would be the only character beisdes DK able to carry a jump with a crate.

7. Luigi- Hero

What he can Bring: I have this weird hunch that maybe Luigi will just be scrapped. But then again, that would be hard to believe. I was thinking of giving him a vaccum and ghost based moveset, but that is treading on king DeDeDe's toes. He should have wind attacks. So is Luigi stuck being a semiclone?

Well, I think all of Luigi's moves should be different then Mario's, following Luigi's flamboyant theme, but still look kinda similar.

Personally, I don’t see Yoshi or Wario as Mario characters (they do have their own icons after all, while Mario and crew have the mushroom icon…) but I can see where your coming from.

Toad I don’t see as vary likely, as he seems to have been replaced by Rtoadsworth in the more recent games. also, Bowser Jr. just screams “original moveset” with that paint brush.

Legend of Zelda Series

1. Link- Confirmed

What he can bring: Projectiles to claim the stage, plus fairly strong sword play. Seems like he will be like his Melee counterpart with a bit more range and perhaps improved projectiles.

2. Zelda without Sheik- Zamus looks like Sheik's replacement. I do not see the morph ability (while a cool idea in theory) returning. People rather play as a character they select. Even if done right the morph ability still polarizes an audience, I think people would rather have two forms as two different characters.

What she can bring: This is kinda tough. She must be in the game because she is part of the triforce connection. Link has the triforce of courage and this is represented by an adaptable playstyle in battle. He is always ready and equipped to fight any enemy. Gannondorf has the triforce of strength which is represented with brute force. So what about the triforce of wisdom. The morph ability did fit the mold. But I cannot see it returning as it was in Melee.

3. Gannondorf- Constant threat to Hyrule

What he can bring to the game: Gannondorf must be the powerhouse again, just with his own moves.

4. Midna on Wolf Link- A new and exciting addition to the Zelda series

What she can bring to the game: Well, it would be the first mount and ride combination as well as the first four legged beast (unless you want to count Pikachu). A team that is played as a single character. I think people will like this. Plus I cannot really see ether character alone, they fought as a team.

And a lunging wolf and shadow magic is just too good of a combination to pass up. I see the team as an aggressive, offensive machine. However the long wolf body as well as the rider with her big head will create a big target with only average weight.

Wolf Link/Midna would be interesting, but I still see Midna solo as more likely. She’s original and powerful enough to take on the other Smash characters all on her own.

Kirby Series

1. Kirby - Confirmed

What he can bring: I think he is going to become the powerful puff. Why? Well I have a few theories.

I predict Jiggs will be cut. While she has a fun moveset (and one of my favorite characters), there will be (specualtion) more floaty jumpers. And these floaty jumpers will have cooler moves, flashier specials, and a little more variety. Plus her popularity seems entirely gone. So Kirbs has to step up and be the strong puff, returning to at least a portion of his greatness in the original. He will be a light body with a mix bag of specials, strong but somewhat slow attacks, and a great recovery.

2. Metaknight- Confirmed

What he can bring: In a way I think he will replace Jiggs as the aerial profecient puff. He will have rapid, low range attacks as well as great recovery. I say he will be heavier then Kirby, but lacking knockout moves.

3. King DeDeDe- Inept ruler/ sometimes villain and sometimes hero/ a confused penguin

What he can bring: A floater with some beef and a hammer. Also he can be a wind based character, using gusts of air to inflate, to suck characters in and shoot them out, as well as assualting oppenents with gales.

I have a feeling that the IC's will be gone, but that doesn't mean mallets have to go as well.

DK series

1. DK- Original Mario villain and now a hero in his own right

What he can bring: Versatile throws (I say he grabs on both sides of his body in order to snatch two enemies and smash them together before tossing them), an array of varying spikes and meteors, and some agility as a heavyweight.

2. Diddy- DK's litle buddy

What he can bring: I am not a fan of Diddy, but many people are. It seems like he would be tough to ignore. While the Dixie/Diddy tag team idea does intrigue me it would alienate key Diddy fans. Diddy can be a hip, quick, althetic fighter. Plus he has enough moves for a varied fighting style.

3. Kaptain K. Rool- DK's villain

What he can bring: A pirate based moveset which would just be awesome. I know I know, he has other forms and personalities. And because he has multiple personality disorder and seems unstable, maybe he should use other moves then just from the second DK game. But I really like a moveset just based around a giant alligater looting, plundering, and firing cannoballs. A heavyweight with an arsenal.

No arguments here.

F-Zero Series

1. Captain Falcon- Fast and powerful bounty hunter

What he can bring: More of the same. Fast with laggy powerful moves, combo abilities, and obnoxious, LOUD catch phrases. He needs to announce more moves (although only a percentage of the time). And the knee prolly should be a little weaker. it negates very little need for the Falcon Punch (not there would be a need anyways).

No Goroh? Poor F-zero fans…

StarFox series

1. Fox- Confirmed

What he can bring: A fast aggressive character with good potential vertical killing. He just needs to be focused and not allowed to have as many advantages as in Melee. Being quick, strong, possessing a spike, having long recovery, and weight (fastfalling makes him unable to die vertically unless at very high percentages, and his horizantal recovery range makes him a hard one to kill) is a bit much.

2. Krystal- Heroine

What she can bring: Another female character. But some fun with a staff as well. She can perhaps catapault with it, clothesline with it, ect. A lighter character possessing range, speed, and projectile. In a way she might be compared to a Young Link with some more range.

3. Andross (scientists with a body)- The true Fox Villain

What he can bring: A high tech, gadget moveset involving traps and technique. You can read my thread if you really want to know my reasoning and thoughts for him. I feel he can offer much more then Wolf (malicious Fox) or Falco (grumpy Fox).

Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed the Andross boss fight in SF64, but I seriously doubt he will be included over Wolf since we have no idea how Andross appeared before he became a giant floating head. That’s the kind of character you included when there are no other options – which is not the case with Star Fox.

Pokemon series

1. Pikachu- Confirmed

What he can bring: Hit and run tactics, air game, and hard hitting smashes. His weaknesses include low range regular attacks with weak knockback and damage accumulation. And light weight.

2. Mewtwo- Pokemon's villain

What he can bring: Executed poorly, but the idea was in the right direction. He should be a little heavier, but his A attacks are right on. Mewtwo should be an evasive creature that relies on his specials to weaken the enemy or protect himself. This way he avoids the opponent's attacks with his teleport and dodge, absorbs the hits with a special (maybe for a down B: a shield that can absorb 30 percent damage per stock), while disarming his foes. (Forward B can be disable: Turns off a random A attack for the rest of the stock life. If hit with disable again the enemy regains the missing A attack but loses another).

3. Lucario - Recent popular pokemon

What he can bring: Little Mac is a good idea in theory. He is a retro character with a fan base and a boxing background. But he seems kinda stale. Lucario can offer a punching moveset with energy spheres, flashy kicks, and unique specials. I say it is the way to go.

I’m all for axing Jiggs, but I expect all the original 12 are safe. We can always hope….

Metroid Series

1. Samus- Confirmed

What she can bring: I think she was well balanced in Melee and should more or less return very similar with better graphics. A nice armored, ranged fighter.

2. Zamus - Alternative version of Samus and fixed Sheik (speculation)/ I think she will be her own selectable character on the selection screen

What she can bring: A fast, combolicious playstyle offset by weak hits and less stamina.

3. Ridley- Villain

What he can bring: A ranged fighter with flight. Ridley does not have to be huge or broken. He could have similar weight to Samus, but his lanky body would be easier to hit. I can see him similar to Samus, with less focus on range and more focus on hand to hand combat.

Zamus has already been confirmed by Sakurai to be a transformation and not a “pure character addition”. Too bad though…

Earthbound series

1. Lucas - Ness's replacement

What he can bring: An updated version of Ness (heard he had similar powers). Ness always had bad graphics in my eyes. Lucas can be a fresh start with a very close but improved moveset. Plus he can start a Mother 3 import wave. Earthbound isn't that big (in my opinion) to require more then one addition.

I have 2 problems with this:

1) Ness is one of the original 12 and
2) Ness’ game was the only localized Earthbound game. Mother 3 is released outside Japan, he has no place in Brawl – in my view.

Fire Emblem series

1. Marth- Original lord

What he can bring: Strategy and range. His specials were well made, they reflect the stretgic battle game he comes from. But he is a little ridiculous right now (along with some other characters). Grab range is too great and his forward Smash should not be able to kill better then Bowser's Smash (even witht he tipper).

Why no more Lords? Yes FE is a popular series. But if the game is going to have a good chunk of sword fighters, why not pick one sword fighter per series for variety and spice rather then having four or five FE lords (which many people seem to crave).

Ike is basically a cooler, non-tiara wearing Marth. Why Marth and not Ike?

Golden Sun

1. Issac- psi-energy hero

What he can bring: Sword and magic combination which is still not really apparent in Smash to any large degree. This is variety right here. Plus he references a popular rpg. Then again I do not know that much about him, but from the wiki article and from posting fans, I deemed him worthy and likely to enter Brawl. Plus a composer of the game is doing music for the next Smashing installment.

Wow, a lot of people seem to be in favor of Issac recently.

Kid Icarus series

1. Pit- cherub hero

What he can bring: A versatile blade master with a manuervable projectile. Seems like a different version of Link. Better recovery and speed, while sacrificing power and hard hitting projectiles (speculation). I think his light beam arrows will do damage, but have little knockback.

Animal Crossing Series

1. Tom Nook- merchant

What he can bring: I see him as a wacky updated G&W. He uses random tools for a hilarious battle. Fishing rod for a grab, leaves that poof into furniture for projectiles, and an arsenal of shovels, seeds, and other goodies. For a dash I can see him rolling on a carpet which unfolds, leaving a patterned rug behind on the battle course.

Pikmin series

1. Captain Olimar- pilot and pikmin enslaver

What he can bring: A unique "duo" fighting system involving a horde of Pikmin that follow him. The Pikmin would mostly be used for special attacks, but could be knocked away. If a special attack is used before they can regroup it would be weaker.

Agreed, particularly Olimar.

Balloon Fighter series

1. Balloon fighter- Balloon Fighter

What he can bring: He could have a moveset based on floating and cleats. I am sure Sakurai could updaate his design like Pit's and find a suitable method of attacking. I see the balloon fighter as n old fashioned pilot. Young and cartoonish but geared out in WWI goggles with a scarf wrapped around his neck. And of course balloons hovering above. He should be the master of the air, his ground attacks serving only to juggle the oppenent.

Mach Rider series

1. Mach Rider- Future Hero

What he can bring: A rival to Captain Falcon and a representative of a different retro series. Is he too similar? Na. His game and moves are different. Plus Sakurai can give him a cool futuristic design. Mach rider should have quick attacks, and dodges and a consistent above average running speed (but still not as fast as the real speedsters). While CF is about aerial, and Snake looks like a ambush, opurtunist, Mach Rider would be like a pesky wasp. Stay near the enemy and sting him or her with hits before dodging to the side.

I could possibly see BF, but I’m skeptical about Mach Rider. Maybe that’s because I never played his game though…

Stafy Series

1. Stafy- Japanese character (I know what Sakurai said, but Stafy appears in Mario games. I think the transition over seas is being setup and Smash is a way to import the games).

What he can bring: I do not know much about Stafy. But a star design, while simple, offers alot of variability in movements. A drill, a cartwheel, a ninja star, a falling star, a barrage of pokes, ect.

Sure, if the Japanese gamers don’t mind including John Madden as well. It’s only fair.

Other

1. Mii - Personal character

What Mii can bring: The idea seems too wacky to pass up, even if I am not a true fan of it. A moveset based on sport games witht he option of customizing your own head. The mii's have been doing a good job of luring in nongamers to the Wii. So it might expand the Smash audience.

Plus he seems like a future version of G&W.

Well said. I couldn’t agree more.

Third Party

1. Snake- Confirmed

What he can bring: Explosives and juggles. That is what it seems like his main moves are. Instead of pure speed like CF, he evades by stealth and by putting a grenade between himself and the enemy. But I think his aerial attacks will be slower and his smash attacks weaker. Although his specials will be more useful and provide him with a little more strategy.

2. Geno- Mario's ally in Mario RPG

What he can bring: A fighting puppet. Projectile base with range fighting attacks. Average at fighting, but good at softening the enemy by blugeoning them with pellets, stars, and whirling energy discs.

3. Sonic- Mario's unofficial rival

What he can bring: Speed as well as a larger audience. The Sonic and Mario rivalry is still kicking, best to refresh it before it dies.

Overall, I don’t find your roster too bad. Andross seems pretty farfetched and your roster would crush the hopes and dreams of Earthbound, F-zero and Fire emblem fans everywhere – but you’ve also got some interesting choices like balloon Fighter and issac.

I’ll give your roster 7/10

. I'm surprised to see this thread back on the first page: I thought it lost long ago. And what's all this about a "40 Character Challenge"?

The 40 character challenge is simple: post a roster predictions in 40 characters or less – but clones only count for 1/3 of one character slot. Its basically, a ploy yo keep my thread alive as long as possible.

Also, I’ve made some changes to my own roster predictions. Check them out and let me know what you think.

I still stand by my statement that there's no way in hell Sora is in, but I disagree: he can easily be nerfed. I mean, to cite a few, Samus has been able to wipe out the population of entire planets (planets that, I might add, were filled to the brim with monsters and top-of-the-line technological pirate defenses), Mewtwo in his movie was able to take out buildings with a thought and in the brink of annihilating the human race, Ganondorf is... well, Ganondorf, and yet, all of those were in melee no problem. So it's not a matter of being too strong, because nerfing is one of the easiest things in this world .

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

40 Characters eh? My incredibly biased turn!

Mario Series (7)

- Mario
- Luigi
- Peach
- Bowser
- Yoshi
- Wario
- Baby Bowser

Not a huge fan of baby bowser but i figure they'll probably add a new mario character since wario has kina moved away from being a mario only character and bb seems like the next most likely character to me, he seems to be in just about every mario game nowadays. Apart from that the rest are about the same

Agreed so far.

Zelda Series (6)

- Link
- Zelda/ Sheik
- Ganondorf
- Young Link (cel)
- Either Vaati, Tingle or Midna in some shape or form

Once again pretty standard pics and yes i think Sheik will still make it, her riggedness meant she was popular in the last one so she will probably return but not as good. Can't decide between the 3 bottom ones i tihnk Tingle is most likely partly because of popularity (i guarentee more people know of him then Vaati), he has his own game plus they might just add him for a novelty charater. Midna's chance comes from the relevance of TP to the Wii.

Urgh.. why would Sheik return? The TP version of Zelda is far more likely, and she never once transformed into Sheik. She is extremely unimportant to the Zelda series and only popular due to her excessive cheapness.

Metroid (3)

- Samus
- Zamus
- Ridley

I think they will add one more since Sakurai respects the series and i think Ridley is the most likely.

Yeah, this is a definite possibly. Hope Dark Samus gets in though.

Pokemon (4)

- Pikachu
- Jigglypuff
- Lucario
- Deoxys

Hmmm... Bit unsure about this one. I've put 4 like Melee but i think due to its popularity there will be more then that. I got rid of Pichu for obvious reasons and replaced Mewtwo with Deoxys because they only need 1 Psycic and he is more relevant. Not too sure about this one.

I agree with you on this one, although as long as Pokemon don’t completely overtake the roster it doesn’t concern me either way.

DK Series (2)

- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong

Baby steps... I don't think they will lash out and put a ton of DK chars in it since the past 2 have had only 1 and since DK isn't as big as he used to be it lowers chars chances though i would like K. Rool to be in it.

I don’t have strong feelings about K.Rool one way or another, but he defiantly has a good chance IF they decide to include a third DK character.

Star fox (3)

- Fox
- Falco
- Krystal

Sorry don't think Wolf would be original enough to put in like Krystal would plus i think Falco will make a return because of popularity but unlike Wolf he was in the last SSB.

Yeah Wolf would probably be a clone. But when has than ever been a bad thing?

Kirby (3)

- Kirby
- Metaknight
- King Dedede

I am still perplexed how Dededed hasn't been in it before

Agreed.

Fire Emblem (3)

- Ike
- Marth
- Some other FE char (sorry i've only played the Sacred Stones!)

Very popular, Sakurai likes it etc etc...

You know my feelings on Marth, but its still possible he will appear alongside Ike, I suppose.

Earthbound (1)

- Ness

F-Zero X (1)

- Captin Falcon

Kid Icarus (1)

- Pit

Another character from KI!! You're pushing your luck there boy!

I hope Ness and CF at least get their own clones (POO and Goroh) but I could also see them continuing to represent their series solo.

Golden Sun (1)

- Isaac

I just want him in soo bad! Char owned by Nintendo so i guess he is kinda 1st party plus he is from a well knon as renound RPG on a nintendo platform that wasn't made by S-E! That's pretty rare plus there are endless possibilities with movesets due to his psyenergy.

There must be something to this Golden Sun gam, if so many people love it. I’ll have to check it out after FFIII.

3rd Party (3)

- Sonic
- Snake
- One other? (megaman, Simon Belmont, possible Square char that isn't Sephiroth)

And the Rest (2)

- Game and Watch
- Ice climbers

Whatever man who cares about these two really?

Good list, but the presence of Sheik over captain Olimar would be the geatest injustice ever. 7.5/10

 

[rm88]

When she is happy she will be able to perform her float. When calm her turnips receive a slight bonus of being the stronger variety and her forward Smash has a greater chance of randomly selecting the most powerful tool. When sad she gains fast running speed (which she lacked in Melee) and leaves behind a trail of tears that makes following characters lose traction. When angry she gains her broken down Smash.

Worst idea ever. You obviously don't plan to play as Peach, do you?

Anyway, rm88's 40 character list:

Mario series
Peach
Mario - No Paper Mario, please.
Luigi
Bowser
Toad - Part of the Big 8, he deserves to be in Brawl.
Bowser Jr. - I love the idea of a brush-based moveset.

Wario series
Wario

Yoshi series
Yoshi

TLOZ series
Zelda - Without Sheik ^_^
Link - No WW Link, please.
Ganondorf
True form Midna could be a Zelda clone

StarFox series
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal - Sakurai wants more female characters.

Donkey Kong series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong - NO DIXIE.

Kirby series
Kirby
Metaknight
King DeDeDe - I have the feeling that if he gets in, the ICs get out...

Metroid series
Samus/Zamus - No Dark Samus, 3 Samus would be too much.
Ridley - The only Metroid character I can see getting in Brawl.

Fire Emblem series
Marth - The often called main FE character.
Ike - He seems to be popular.
Micaiah - Just for female representation, she could use magic AND her sword.

Pokémon series
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Meowth
Lucario - He is really popular right now, and he could make an interesting moveset.
- OMG! teh 5 Pokémon is 2 much! Well, Pokémon sells.

3rd Party
Snake
Sonic

Others
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh
Ice Climbers
Pit
Ness
Lucas
Balloon Fighter

I really struggled to reach 40, I don't think we'll get that much characers.

 

[Smady]

For the moveset? It kinda comes down to playstyle really. Some characters (like Marth for example) would be able to hit away a large group of Pikmin if you tried to swarm him due to his long reach and forward smash so in that case it'd be more keeping your distance a little, firing off a couple of well place Pikmin and then get in close while he tries to manage a multiple enemy assault. For some characters that have a large amount of elemental attacks again it'd be great to pick up a large amount of the opposite immunity to give Olimar the edge and so it'd be more quality, although swarming him with them couldn't hurt .

The quality/quantity game would also help for when trying to amass your Pikmin army, as using Pikmin effectively as a distraction could help you place yourself nicely for some mass Pick-a-Piking and then you have the quantity to use as you see fit. Besides I think it's not secret that some characters aren't very good at dealing with multiple enemies and in that case a full on assault by throwing pikmin infront, behind and ontop of them could really screw them over, especially if you ran in and started comboing them with some low knockback moves.

In the games though it's definitely more a quality thing, quantity gets eaten in...er...large amounts?

Edit: I've posted the moveset along with a tweak or 2 and a super smash move over in the now-bumped Captain Olimer thread, have a gander but i'm all for keeping the discussion going here since this thread will probably get looked at more anyway.

All sounds good, not much to discuss. Although it does sound like Olimar will be a god if used correctly, you'll have to give him some serious lag/slowness, no?

 

[Wiseguy]

Worst idea ever. You obviously don't plan to play as Peach, do you?

Anyway, rm88's 40 character list:

Mario series
Peach
Mario No Paper Mario, please.
Luigi
Bowser
Toad Part of the Big 8, he deserves to be in Brawl.
Bowser Jr. I love the idea of a brush-based moveset.

Wario series
Wario

Yoshi series
Yoshi

TLOZ series
Zelda Without Sheik ^_^
Link No WW Link, please.
Ganondorf
True form Midna could be a Zelda clone

StarFox series
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal Sakurai wants more female characters.

Donkey Kong series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong NO DIXIE.

Kirby series
Kirby
Metaknight
King DeDeDe I have the feeling that if he gets in, the ICs get out...

Metroid series
Samus/Zamus No Dark Samus, 3 Samus would be too much.
Ridley The only Metroid character I can see getting in Brawl.

Fire Emblem series
Marth The often called main FE character.
Ike He seems to be popular.
Micaiah Just for female representation, she could use magic AND her sword.

Pokémon series
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Meowth
Lucario He is really popular right now, and he could make an interesting moveset.
OMG! teh 5 Pokémon is 2 much! Well, Pokémon sells.

3rd Party
Snake
Sonic

Others
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh
Ice Climbers
Pit
Ness
Lucas
Balloon Fighter

I really struggled to reach 40, I don't think we'll get that much characers.

Hmm... just a few thoughts:

1) What the heck is wrong with Wind Waker Link? WW was one of the greatest Gamecube games ever and its sequel Phantom Hourglass is the most anticipated DS game coming out this year.

2) Dark Samus isn't "another Samus". She is the form Metroid Prime took after it stole Samus' Phazon suit. Dark Samus may share the same name, but she is a separate entitiy with her own abilities. I think she would make an excellent addition as a Luigified Samus clone.

3) You are correct that Marth is often called the main Fire emblem character. Falsely, I might add.

4) I don't beleive Miciaiah uses a sword. From what I understand, she uses exclusively light magic. I'll know for sure when GoD is released.

5) Call me crazy, but I think 5 Pokemon is a bit much. I also think having both Mew and Mewtwo would be a bit redundent, but that's just me.

6) Wow. ANOTHER list without Olimar. So very sad...

I'll give you 8/10. Not a bad list, but its kinda short on surprises.

 

[Vali]

All sounds good, not much to discuss. Although it does sound like Olimar will be a god if used correctly, you'll have to give him some serious lag/slowness, no?

A lot of things you have to consider. Without a proper use of pikmin and if your opponent clears a lot of them away then you end up with Olimar being quite weak. Positioning is also very important since if you're close the edge it's so much easier to kill the pikmin and only certain areas yield some kinds of pikmin. There's a lot to consider really and he'd probably be hard to play like a god but then again even players like Taj managed to Mewtwo it up with the best of players and Mewtwo was the worst character in Melee.

Characters with a large, strong reach would obviously be Olimar's bane and it'd take a lot of skill to counter that really but the moveset does have the possibility to. Check out the Olimar thread, it's updated a tiny bit and I added a pretty decent Pikmin music video I found on youtube to the end to show off some of the ingame mechanics to people that might not be familiar with the franchise.

 

[Smady]

A lot of things you have to consider. Without a proper use of pikmin and if your opponent clears a lot of them away then you end up with Olimar being quite weak. Positioning is also very important since if you're close the edge it's so much easier to kill the pikmin and only certain areas yield some kinds of pikmin. There's a lot to consider really and he'd probably be hard to play like a god but then again even players like Taj managed to Mewtwo it up with the best of players and Mewtwo was the worst character in Melee.

Characters with a large, strong reach would obviously be Olimar's bane and it'd take a lot of skill to counter that really but the moveset does have the possibility to. Check out the Olimar thread, it's updated a tiny bit and I added a pretty decent Pikmin music video I found on youtube to the end to show off some of the ingame mechanics to people that might not be familiar with the franchise.

You're right... I'll check out the Olimar thread.

Thing is, is Pikmin popular enough? There are only two games out, and I can't remember if they hit a million or not. Then again, if there was a sequel it obviously was somewhat popular. But is he popular enough for 'Brawl? And would he be too complicated, if very unique, to add?

 

[Vali]

You're right... I'll check out the Olimar thread.

Thing is, is Pikmin popular enough? There are only two games out, and I can't remember if they hit a million or not. Then again, if there was a sequel it obviously was somewhat popular. But is he popular enough for 'Brawl? And would he be too complicated, if very unique, to add?

Not sure about the sales, wouldn't know where to find them but the reviews were stellar and at the end of the day with awesome reviews, quite a few fans and an inclusion in Brawl with Olimar repping the franchise the envitable Pikmin 3 should sell really really well.

http://uk.cube.ign.com/articles/166/166510p1.html - IGN Pikmin 1 - 9.1
http://uk.cube.ign.com/articles/540/540864p1.html - IGN Pikmin 2 - 9.3
http://uk.gamespot.com/gamecube/strategy/pikmin/index.html? - Gamespot Pikmin 1 - 8.9
http://uk.gamespot.com/gamecube/strategy/pikmin2/index.html? - Gamespot Pikmin 2 - 9.2

That's pretty **** good coming from Gamespot and IGN

Dunno about the complicated thing, my moveset is probably unlikely to be one implemented in Brawl since I haven't really got the first clue about balancing a character ^^ but I can hope something like that will turn out. Besides, I stand by my statement that it'd be fun to play and only take a little bit of practice for the multi-tasking of Pikmin, positioning and throwing tactics etc. to become natural like many elements of smash. A vetern Olimar'er could be incredibly tactical and resourceful in his management of Pikmin and be accurate at throwing and comboing moves it would be almost like an artform to watch, and then a casual Olimar'er could just pluck away at Pikmin and have a great time tossing them around any old how and have a great fun simulating the "Pikmin mass ****" tactic in Brawl .

 

[boricuaboy]

Where is king boo or boo at.

 

[Smady]

Not sure about the sales, wouldn't know where to find them but the reviews were stellar and at the end of the day with awesome reviews, quite a few fans and an inclusion in Brawl with Olimar repping the franchise the envitable Pikmin 3 should sell really really well.

http://uk.cube.ign.com/articles/166/166510p1.html - IGN Pikmin 1 - 9.1
http://uk.cube.ign.com/articles/540/540864p1.html - IGN Pikmin 2 - 9.3
http://uk.gamespot.com/gamecube/strategy/pikmin/index.html? - Gamespot Pikmin 1 - 8.9
http://uk.gamespot.com/gamecube/strategy/pikmin2/index.html? - Gamespot Pikmin 2 - 9.2

That's pretty **** good coming from Gamespot and IGN

Wow, that's great! Sequels usually don't get such high ratings. I'd certainly buy Pikmin 3 if it got even higher than that - which seems inevitable! I can't even imagine 9.5s, but it looks like it will happen! Jeez!

Dunno about the complicated thing, my moveset is probably unlikely to be one implemented in Brawl since I haven't really got the first clue about balancing a character ^^ but I can hope something like that will turn out. Besides, I stand by my statement that it'd be fun to play and only take a little bit of practice for the multi-tasking of Pikmin, positioning and throwing tactics etc. to become natural like many elements of smash. A vetern Olimar'er could be incredibly tactical and resourceful in his management of Pikmin and be accurate at throwing and comboing moves it would be almost like an artform to watch, and then a casual Olimar'er could just pluck away at Pikmin and have a great time tossing them around any old how and have a great fun simulating the "Pikmin mass ****" tactic in Brawl .

You're saying he'd be easy-to-learn but hard-to-master?

That'd be the greatest balancing you can get. Being able to swarm your opponent and surround them. Then again, it'd be a bit unfair that stupid tactics like gang ****** may just have a sneaky advantage over certain characters. Hopefully top tier characters, as I see Olimar being low tier... I'd love to see Ken or Taj get beaten by Stryks' Olimar.

You've actually somewhat convinced me on this... Although I still don't see where he fits in, it is possible. And there's a possibility he'll be in. All that is left to decipher is the sales end of the spectrum, then we're set!

 

[Vali]

If it's possible, get Pikmin 1 and 2. At least 1 or them, they both have their unique charms but 2 definitely being the longer of the experiences. Managed to snap 2 up on Ebay not too long ago for around new game price and since production has stopped you'd be wise before they're gone forever . I've actually been putting some work into Pikmin 2 after a far too long delay since I started playing it and payed off the 10,000 Potos debt today at 13 hours 37 minutes playtime. Scary stuff.

He'd be like most Smash Bros. characters in that he'd be easy and fun to mess around with and wouldn't be too hard to get used to, but in order to use him effectively at tournament level you'd definitely need to plug in the practice ^^. His supreme uniqueness would open up a lot more character specific tricks and tips than we've seen on the Melee level to be fair. It's just the sort of quirky awesomeness that Brawl needs to differentiate it from being just "Melee 2.0".

As far as tiers go, I think this time around they'll do a superb balancing job with very little between the characters and nothing of the Mewtwo -> Shiek sort of divide. Of course there's going to be some better than others and that itself is inevitable but nothing of the God tier and Bottom tier sort. Even if Olimar was done quite badly and ended up one of the worse characters I think his fans, his different Brawl experience and overall fun would still mean that people would play him. After all, people still main the low tiers even in Melee despite at a tournament level they're at a severe disadvantage.

*hint hint* Get Pikmin 2! I'll go scout for sales information. >.>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

According to this, the original Pikmin shipped 1 million units by the end of fiscal 2005. That, without the additional sales of Pikmin 2 which I'd imagine has shipped probably at least 500-800,000+, means it rivals the sales of such gamecube releases according to that as Paper Mario 2: Thousand Year Door, Mario Party 6 and Star Fox Adventures at the time. Not too shabby to be honest.

 

[Smady]

You're right. I'm a bit tired, but I see you're right.

And it does seem to have sold quite well too... Hm...

 

[Vali]

I'd love to get my mits on some proper sale numbers, would be interesting to see how well Pikmin 2 has sold up until the end of fiscal '07. The reason Pikmin 2 got better reviews was because it addressed _all_ of the issues of the first game and changed the gameplay enough to keep it fresh (helped by the addition of the 2 new Pikmin). I honestly can't wait until they announce 3. If they don't...well...about 4-5 pages back is mine, Wiseguy and soon the entire of the Pikmin fanbase's plan to ensure a 3rd Pikmin game on Wii . Need to start formulating a plan to get Super Paper Mario over here too, some sort of mass protest involving paper no doubt...genius!

Don't know why but I seem to have a lot of problems highlighting text on this thing. I mean I highlight something and let go of the mouse and it just dehighlights, or sometimes when I go to delete it with backspace it just sends me back a page. Sometimes when I'm trying to do a line spacing it just skips up a huge amount of text and inserts a random gap in some wall of text. Bloody annoying if you ask me .

 

[LordRalph_87]

I'm not going to write out my entire list as most of them are on Wiseguy's but here are the ones I would drop from his:

Midna (Twili form)
While on the face of it this does seem like a much better chararcter choice than Imp form Midna due to the fact that she is a more average smash size and this tends to make for a better moveset and playstyle in my opinion (that means you don't need to have a go just because that what I think). The problem is that if a follow up game is released (its true they might just do ANOTHER Zelda game) the move set might be a bit weird and people might not feel as though they were playing as Midna or people might think her abilities in the new game were a bit off. Either way would be good though. Basically she should be in.

The Black Knight
The no clones thing seems to instantly bring a few niggling doubts into this and with the wealth of chararcters to choose from Fire Emblem (or so I'm told) maybe someone with a different style of combat to other SSBB and SSBM characters would fit better. However he does look awesome and I do love playing as 'proper' evil characters like him (not the I'll make a long speech so people can rescue you and then repent as I'm dying kind (yes I watch too much anime)).

Samurai Goroh
Can't really think he would be that good as a character. Several others from the F-Zero series have been in every game as well (don't quote me on that). He doesn't strike me as someone whos particularly interesting. However sleeves are for the weak I think we can all agree on that.

Poo
Again the cloning of attacks doesn't really help. And just looking at him is making me irrationally anrgy. Could be ok as a chararcter but he just doesn't look that interesting (I'm so going to be flamed by someone for using the reason doesn't to interesting to justify why someone shouldn't be in Brawl).

Tom Nook
Just no. Hes far too round and I can't see him really attacking anyone. Would be a nice bit of fanservice (if you like that sort of thing) but I don't think he works quite well enough to give him a spot.

Who I would put in instead....

Another Fire Emblem
I think it looks like a great series to put into SSBB and with two in melee why not up that by one at least for brawl. With so many different classes now the combat styles for each character could be made quite different.

General Scales
Who? The general of the dinosaurs from Starfox looks very similar to lizardman in Soul Calibur 2. A moveset could easily be made for him and he could be a good character...a large dinosaur capable of short bursts of speed but overall faily slow.

Tales of Symphonia Characters
My first choice would be Kratos (with the alternate costume of Zelos of course) but to do this LLyod would probably be put in so why not. Sheena could also possibly be a good addition with her card based move set (paper cut anyone?). Its a fantastic game and even better the characters already have movesets pre-packed and ready to go. The only problem of course is the no anime rule and their funny coloured hair might set of Sakurai's anti-anime destroyer guard mark IV robots.

Viewtiful Joe
Having now starred in 6 (hooray for wiki) games by a combination of sequels and re-releases I believe he deserves a place in brawl. Very much tied to Nintendo where he was first unleashed his moves give rise to a different type of gameplay including the slowing down and speeding up of time. With his own moveset (would need to be local rather than the entire screen) and being in SS:64/SSBM/SSBB style sidescrolling format already would fit right in.


On a side note the dea for Miis would be awesome. Being able to face off the likes of Chuck Norris/Mr T and Leonidas would make my brain explode. Possibly make this so you can choose from a selelction of moves and any moves from characters you already have. This would mean it would have to be disabled in online mode but it would make character creation nearly infinite and keep the game fresh for ages (unlike most of the stuff in my fridge).

That took 20 mins to type I hope someone appreaciates/reads this

 

[Wiseguy]

I'm not going to write out my entire list as most of them are on Wiseguy's but here are the ones I would drop from his:

Midna (Twili form)
While on the face of it this does seem like a much better chararcter choice than Imp form Midna due to the fact that she is a more average smash size and this tends to make for a better moveset and playstyle in my opinion (that means you don't need to have a go just because that what I think). The problem is that if a follow up game is released (its true they might just do ANOTHER Zelda game) the move set might be a bit weird and people might not feel as though they were playing as Midna or people might think her abilities in the new game were a bit off. Either way would be good though. Basically she should be in.

Well, if Nintendo makes a sequel to Twilight Princess (which would be awesome!) and Midna is in it, then she will likely appear in Twili form. Remember, her Imp form was just the result of Zant's curse which was broken at the end of the game. Unfortunatly, I doubt Midna will appear again in the Zelda series so this is her only chance to appear in a Smash Bros game.

The Black Knight
The no clones thing seems to instantly bring a few niggling doubts into this and with the wealth of chararcters to choose from Fire Emblem (or so I'm told) maybe someone with a different style of combat to other SSBB and SSBM characters would fit better. However he does look awesome and I do love playing as 'proper' evil characters like him (not the I'll make a long speech so people can rescue you and then repent as I'm dying kind (yes I watch too much anime)).

Uhhh... what "no clones thing"? Sakurai has never stated that there wouldn't be clones in Brawl.

While is certainly a wealth of interesting and unique characters in the Fire emblem series, only a select few from each game are important enough in their respective game's storyline to serve as a representative for their game. The only Fire Emblem games released internationally were the 2 Fire Emblem GBA games and Path of Radiance - and only the later was well recieved in both North America AND Japan. As the two most influential characters in the Path of Radiance storyline, I remain convinced that Ike and The Black Knight would make excellent representatives for the series.

Samurai Goroh
Can't really think he would be that good as a character. Several others from the F-Zero series have been in every game as well (don't quote me on that). He doesn't strike me as someone whos particularly interesting. However sleeves are for the weak I think we can all agree on that.

While there have been other characters in all the F-zero games, Goroh is the most worthy of the group as he is he Captian Falcon's rival. I personally think he would make an awesome character - whether he is a new Ganondorf-esqe clone or a completly unique moveset like Captian Falcon's.

Come to think of it, "sleaves are for the weak" would make a great attack stance catch phrase for Goroh...

Poo
Again the cloning of attacks doesn't really help. And just looking at him is making me irrationally anrgy. Could be ok as a chararcter but he just doesn't look that interesting (I'm so going to be flamed by someone for using the reason doesn't to interesting to justify why someone shouldn't be in Brawl).

Clones do help in the sense that they require less time to program, so more characters can be included before release.

And if Poo makes you angry, you can always let out your frustrations by beating the lving crap out of him...

Tom Nook
Just no. Hes far too round and I can't see him really attacking anyone. Would be a nice bit of fanservice (if you like that sort of thing) but I don't think he works quite well enough to give him a spot.

Round? How so? Round like Kirby or Jiggs?

Animal Crossing is one Nintendo's major franchises and it has a lot of fans. Smash has always had a diverse cast, and many of them have been unlikely combatants (does Peack really seem like the fighting type to you?) so I'd say Nook would be a welcome addition.

Who I would put in instead....

Another Fire Emblem
I think it looks like a great series to put into SSBB and with two in melee why not up that by one at least for brawl. With so many different classes now the combat styles for each character could be made quite different.

If they have time to include another original Fire Emblem character, Miciaiah is the way to go. However, if a clone has to be added he could do a lot worse than Black Knight: an ultra slow and powerful Ike clone with a teloportation move.

General Scales
Who? The general of the dinosaurs from Starfox looks very similar to lizardman in Soul Calibur 2. A moveset could easily be made for him and he could be a good character...a large dinosaur capable of short bursts of speed but overall faily slow.

Good to see I wasn't the only one who enjoyed Starfox Adventures . I think he would make a fine addition, but given the irrational hatred many people feel towards his game, I kinda doubt he will be seriously considered.

Tales of Symphonia Characters
My first choice would be Kratos (with the alternate costume of Zelos of course) but to do this LLyod would probably be put in so why not. Sheena could also possibly be a good addition with her card based move set (paper cut anyone?). Its a fantastic game and even better the characters already have movesets pre-packed and ready to go. The only problem of course is the no anime rule and their funny coloured hair might set of Sakurai's anti-anime destroyer guard mark IV robots.

Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games ever! I have many fond memories of batling monsters with my two brothers and younger sister. We spent hours customizing our characters and scratching our heads over the many puzzle filled dugeons. The combat system actually reminded me of Melee a bit, except your charcater's attacks were completely customizable. Fantastic game... hope we see a Wii sequel.

Wait, what ere we talking about? Oh yeah. I would be estatic if Lyod or other characters from the game got it, but since the game was only a big deal to Gamecube RPG fans their inclusion proably wouldn't grab too amny people's attention in the same way that Sonic or Mega Man would. A crying shame, that.

Viewtiful Joe
Having now starred in 6 (hooray for wiki) games by a combination of sequels and re-releases I believe he deserves a place in brawl. Very much tied to Nintendo where he was first unleashed his moves give rise to a different type of gameplay including the slowing down and speeding up of time. With his own moveset (would need to be local rather than the entire screen) and being in SS:64/SSBM/SSBB style sidescrolling format already would fit right in.

Viewtiful Joe is among the best suited characters for Brawl, but unfortunatly the series' quality declined rapidly declined after the second game and none of the games achieved any thing beyond sleeper hit status. With the death of Clover last year, there are now no known plans to continue the series. Still, if Sakurai decides he wants him, Capcom might be open to the idea.

On a side note the dea for Miis would be awesome. Being able to face off the likes of Chuck Norris/Mr T and Leonidas would make my brain explode. Possibly make this so you can choose from a selelction of moves and any moves from characters you already have. This would mean it would have to be disabled in online mode but it would make character creation nearly infinite and keep the game fresh for ages (unlike most of the stuff in my fridge).

Miis are indeed awesome, though I'm not sure a cutomizble moveset is the way to go. A single moveset for all the Miis (using moves from their games) would be fine - and we can still have our Chuck Norris/Mr. T/Leonidas/Jack Bauer battle royals over Wi-fi.

That took 20 mins to type I hope someone appreaciates/reads this

I appreciate it. It's always good to read some intelligent, well reasoned opinions.

 

[rm88]

1) What the heck is wrong with Wind Waker Link? WW was one of the greatest Gamecube games ever and its sequel Phantom Hourglass is the most anticipated DS game coming out this year.

2) Dark Samus isn't "another Samus". She is the form Metroid Prime took after it stole Samus' Phazon suit. Dark Samus may share the same name, but she is a separate entitiy with her own abilities. I think she would make an excellent addition as a Luigified Samus clone.

I don't want Paper Mario, WW Link and Dark Samus for the same reason: variety (I love the games they come from). They could have completely original movesets, but Mario is already in, Link is already in and the original Samus is already in. It's just my opinion, though.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Pikmin 1, as of the end of last year, has shipped 1.61 million units, and Pikmin 2 shipped 1.05 million, according to vgchartz.com. Not too shabby.

I have my doubts about the site's accuracy, but overall it's a pretty good estimate.

 

[Mini Mic]

I just don't see there being enough moves for Olimar i guess he could throw Pikmin but what else?

 

[Chief Mendez]

(Yar-har-har! The page finally switched! Now my list will be at the tippity-top for longer than otherwise...all the pieces are coming together...soon my plan will be complete, and the universe will be MINE!)

Seeing as how most of these characters have already been explained ad nauseum, I'm only elaborating on the unexpected ones. (In other words, if you want more on any of my picks, just go back to the first page and read what it says about that character there.)

CONFIRMED:

1. Mario
2. Pikachu
3. Link
4. Kirby
5. Meta-Knight
6. Pit
7. Samus
8. Snake
9. Wario
10. Fox

OBVIOUS RETURNS:

11. Peach
12. Bowser
13. Yoshi
14. Jigglypuff
15. Falco
16. C. Falcon
17. Zelda
18. Ganondorf
19. DK
20. Luigi

NEWCOMERS:

21. Midna - In her 'Imp' form. It's her most recognizable and representative look, plus the moveset would be more interesting.

22. DeDeDe
23. Ridley
24. Tom Nook

25. Andross - Probably my most controversial choice, but something Bowserlick said on this very thread about both Falco and Wolf being Fox-alikes stuck with me. A crazy monkey in a labcoat would certainly liven up the SF camp. Although it should be noted that Falco and Wolf are both in my list. Maybe a tad hypocritical, after that little speech, but I think they're both good Smash contestants, with differeing personalities, abilities, and really big fanbases.

26. Ike
27. Diddy Kong

28. Meowth - He deserves this spot. When was the last time an episode of Pokemon didn't feature Meowth? The anime is where Jiggs got it's spot, and Meowth is certainly more important than it. This pick also evens out the "serious/funny" ratio of Pokemon I added.
29. Sonic

30. Tingle
31. Lucario
32. Megaman
33. Sora

34. Micaiah - I really think you underestimate Brawl's development team's ability. I doubt they'd be reduced to cloning Ike, especially when there's only two FE characters.

35. Lucas - The Ness replacement. He could use his music combos, and some of the new PSI from Mother 3. Fact of the matter is that Ness is one of the more unknown and forgotten Smash fighters. He may have veteran status, but in a way, this is sort of like replacing Ocarina Link with Twilight Princess Link.

36. Simon Belmondo Belmont
37. Olimar
38. Dark Samus
39. Deoxys

40. Jumpman - The G&W replacement, in short. I think we need a really, really retro character that's of great importance to Ninty's history, just like G&W. But he's out, and so who better than the character that gave Nintendo life?

SERIES TOTALS:

Mario - 7
Zelda - 4
Pokemon - 5
StarFox - 4
Metroid - 3
Fire Emblem - 2
3rd Party - 5
DK - 2
Kirby - 3
Misc (series with only one entrant) - 5
TOTAL = 40, with no clones.

 

[Vali]

Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games ever! I have many fond memories of batling monsters with my two brothers and younger sister. We spent hours customizing our characters and scratching our heads over the many puzzle filled dugeons. The combat system actually reminded me of Melee a bit, except your charcater's attacks were completely customizable. Fantastic game... hope we see a Wii sequel.

Wait, what ere we talking about? Oh yeah. I would be estatic if Lyod or other characters from the game got it, but since the game was only a big deal to Gamecube RPG fans their inclusion proably wouldn't grab too amny people's attention in the same way that Sonic or Mega Man would. A crying shame, that.

Kratos is the obvious pick, what with easily being the coolest character in it and probably having the best role in the game throughout the story, but his moveset I found mediocre. As much as it pains me to pick someone over Kratos, I'd have to go with Presea or Lloyd since they both have better moves to pick a moveset from and both bring something more unique than your typical "sword + shield".

Personally I think ToS has the best chances of any Namco game (yes, even ahead of Klonoa and Pacman) just because it's more recent and probably more popular than you'd think (since they released a PS2 version of it too). That and obviously it was really really awesome, a hell load of fun to play and with pretty decent characters and moves. While Lloyd wasn't particularly bad I do have to admit I played the entire thing without voice acting after about the first 10 or so minutes, and I've played through it about 2-3 times ^^.

Oh and Wiseguy, I can't remember a single puzzle that was in any way hard but that's probably because I've played too many RPGs. Only ones which took a while were the ones that were heavily trial and error like the different teleporters in one of the ranches where you could literally spend hours doing the different combinations thanks to the ****ty amount of battles ><.

Pikmin 1, as of the end of last year, has shipped 1.61 million units, and Pikmin 2 shipped 1.05 million, according to vgchartz.com. Not too shabby.

I have my doubts about the site's accuracy, but overall it's a pretty good estimate.

Cheers Chief, that's better than what I could find and you're right, it ain't too shabby at all. Come ooooon Pikmin 3!

I just don't see there being enough moves for Olimar i guess he could throw Pikmin but what else?

I order you to go read my moveset on the Olimar thread, page 15. There's no excuse for saying such things!

 

[LordRalph_87]

Yes sorry Sakurai never said anything about no clones himself HOWEVER it was in the Nintendrones interview.

As for Tom Nook I mean round at the edges not spherical . And Peach is always being kidnapped and then saved by mario. She must have picked up some fighting experience such as the way her down smash is a similar animation to Bowsers (maybe he was bored waiting for Mario to pitch up and gave her a few lessons?). From what I gather Tom Nook walks fairly slowly and does normal jobs...I can't really see it happening and I think if he was implemented the character might feel a little 'forced' if you understand what I mean. In summary I think there are other chararcters who would work better and deserve a place more so than Mr Nook.

Why not instead have Falco?
Yes I know he would almost be a clone however with armada you could potentially hange his moveset and he is a popular character. I still think hes probably going to get cut however

Chief Mendez' list is actually pretty solid. I could see all of those chararcters...except Tom Nook. Also can't really see a giant head a disembodied arms working as a smash character.

 

[Wiseguy]

Greetings and salutations. Check out my first post for the latest entry into the runers-up category.

Where is king boo or boo at.

Don't look now but they're.....RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!!

I don't want Paper Mario, WW Link and Dark Samus for the same reason: variety (I love the games they come from). They could have completely original movesets, but Mario is already in, Link is already in and the original Samus is already in. It's just my opinion, though.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I still think those characters stand a pretty good shot (essepcially WW Link). Mario and the Luigi and very similar, yet they both starred in SSB64 and SSBM. Also, Melee featured both Young Link and Old Link as well as Mario and Dr. Mario in spite of the fact that they are the same person. In comarison, WW Link and TP Link contrast each other quite nicely in appearance and they are different individuals entirely. In any case, if clones are included (which I assumed when I made my predictions) then the clone should be at least a little similar to the character they are copied from.

(Yar-har-har! The page finally switched! Now my list will be at the tippity-top for longer than otherwise...all the pieces are coming together...soon my plan will be complete, and the universe will be MINE!)

An entire universe controlled by Mendez... almost as horrorifying as Olimar absent from Brawl.

Seeing as how most of these characters have already been explained ad nauseum, I'm only elaborating on the unexpected ones. (In other words, if you want more on any of my picks, just go back to the first page and read what it says about that character there.)

CONFIRMED:

1. Mario
2. Pikachu
3. Link
4. Kirby
5. Meta-Knight
6. Pit
7. Samus
8. Snake
9. Wario
10. Fox

OBVIOUS RETURNS:

11. Peach
12. Bowser
13. Yoshi
14. Jigglypuff
15. Falco
16. C. Falcon
17. Zelda
18. Ganondorf
19. DK
20. Luigi

NEWCOMERS:

21. Midna - In her 'Imp' form. It's her most recognizable and representative look, plus the moveset would be more interesting.

22. DeDeDe
23. Ridley
24. Tom Nook

25. Andross - Probably my most controversial choice, but something Bowserlick said on this very thread about both Falco and Wolf being Fox-alikes stuck with me. A crazy monkey in a labcoat would certainly liven up the SF camp. Although it should be noted that Falco and Wolf are both in my list. Maybe a tad hypocritical, after that little speech, but I think they're both good Smash contestants, with differeing personalities, abilities, and really big fanbases.

26. Ike
27. Diddy Kong

28. Meowth - He deserves this spot. When was the last time an episode of Pokemon didn't feature Meowth? The anime is where Jiggs got it's spot, and Meowth is certainly more important than it. This pick also evens out the "serious/funny" ratio of Pokemon I added.
29. Sonic

30. Wolf
31. Lucario
32. Megaman
33. Sora

34. Micaiah - I really think you underestimate Brawl's development team's ability. I doubt they'd be reduced to cloning Ike, especially when there's only two FE characters.

35. Lucas - The Ness replacement. He could use his music combos, and some of the new PSI from Mother 3. Fact of the matter is that Ness is one of the more unknown and forgotten Smash fighters. He may have veteran status, but in a way, this is sort of like replacing Ocarina Link with Twilight Princess Link.

36. Simon Belmondo Belmont
37. Olimar
38. Dark Samus
39. Deoxys

40. Jumpman - The G&W replacement, in short. I think we need a really, really retro character that's of great importance to Ninty's history, just like G&W. But he's out, and so who better than the character that gave Nintendo life?

SERIES TOTALS:

Mario - 7
Zelda - 4
Pokemon - 5
StarFox - 4
Metroid - 3
Fire Emblem - 2
3rd Party - 5
DK - 2
Kirby - 3
Misc (series with only one entrant) - 5
TOTAL = 40, with no clones.

Just a few thoughts:

Andross: Its a cool idea, but the character that you want has yet to appear in a videogame. Andross from the Strafox series is just a giant floating head - which doesn't make an ideal character character addition.

Meowth: I'll take your wod for it that he was important in the anime', but how about the games? Did he even appear in Diamond and Pearl? (that's an actual question)

Lucas: I'm all for replacing old characters with new one's, but I also think that characters from internationally released games are more worthy than Japanese only characters. Ness' game was the only one in the Earthbound series to see the light of day outside Japan, so I suspect he won't be replaced as the series rep just yet. However, I'd be lying if i said it was impossible.

Jumpman: I'm sure someone must have told you this already, but the character Jumpman from the original Donkey Kong was actually Mario in his earlier, non-plumber days.

One of the better lists I've seen. 9/10

Yes sorry Sakurai never said anything about no clones himself HOWEVER it was in the Nintendrones interview.

As for Tom Nook I mean round at the edges not spherical . And Peach is always being kidnapped and then saved by mario. She must have picked up some fighting experience such as the way her down smash is a similar animation to Bowsers (maybe he was bored waiting for Mario to pitch up and gave her a few lessons?). From what I gather Tom Nook walks fairly slowly and does normal jobs...I can't really see it happening and I think if he was implemented the character might feel a little 'forced' if you understand what I mean. In summary I think there are other chararcters who would work better and deserve a place more so than Mr Nook.

Why not instead have Falco?
Yes I know he would almost be a clone however with armada you could potentially hange his moveset and he is a popular character. I still think hes probably going to get cut however

Chief Mendez' list is actually pretty solid. I could see all of those chararcters...except Tom Nook. Also can't really see a giant head a disembodied arms working as a smash character.

Nook wouldn't be the first character that the Smash Team designs a completly unique moveset for. Captain Faclon and Fox were given move stes that had nothing to do with their games, for example. And I doubt Nook would stick out nearly as much as Game & Watch did in Melee.
Why have Nook instead of Falco? Falco is only one of many supporting characters in the Starfox series (Fox is the game's main protagonist) and he lacks the importance in the more recent games that characters like Krystal and Wolf have enjoyed. Nook, however, would be the sole representative of his series - one that has acheived more critical acclaim and comercial success than any of Nintendo's newer franchises (with the possible exception of Pikmin).

Having as diverse a cast of characters as possible will allow Brawl to appeal to a wider range of gamers as possible, so I think there is room for one Animal Crossing rep and at least three Star Fox characters.

@ Vali: While Symphonia was released on PS2, it was only one of many Tales games on that system. Gamecubers are the only ones who look on Symphonia with particular reverance. Still either Lyod or Kratos woulod make awesome additions, so I hope you are correct.

Maybe I just suck at puzzles...

 

[Smady]

I can't believe Mendez left me high and dry by not nominating Phoenix Wright. If I make a "40 challenge" version of my character list, I'll be omitting Phoenix and adding Meowth as half of the reason of his being there was Mendez's confidence in him, which is somewhat lost now. How disappointing.

 

[Vali]

Symphonia is also regarded by many as the FF7 of the "Tales of" series, as in the best. I remember reading that somewhere, and I'm pretty sure it's true, but don't quote me on it . Can easily see Lloyd's moveset being pretty awesome but Presea would bring a fuggin' massive axe to the table that even Hector can't rival, and her moves are pretty awesome too. Regal would be pretty unique too, what with the stupid idiot only using his feet. He actually really annoyed me when he decided to still only use his feet 'cause his hands in the one instance he actually did use them kicked lots of metal bar ***.

Doesn't really matter if you suck at puzzles, as long as you can EBA like a luvin' machine all is good .

Your list was pretty good Mendez but I don't agree with some of your choices. As Wiseguy said, Jumpman = Mario and you can't really make a moveset for him since all he can do is jump. Lucas or Ness is a bit meh, but it's not like I care ^^.

You have a grand total of 5 StarFox representatives which to be fair isn't going to happen, especially not Andross. I can see why you picked Falco too and he might return, but he's another one of those characters who is popular becauuse he's top tier and so when he's nerfed in Brawl there'll be far less people who play him. I reckon there'll only be 3 StarFox characters and in popularity Krystal and Wolf beat Falco.

5 Pokemon I'm uncertain about, since while obviously there's a lot of Pokemon fans that would like to Smash with their pokepals, there's a lot of people (like Wiseguy) that feel that the roster shouldn't be crawling with the critters either. I'm putting my foot down on 4 is enough, and like we've been discussing I'm not all that keen on Meowth's inclusion (or cutting Mewtwo for Deoxys). Oh and before you might start to bring up the 5 Pokemon because it's the 2nd biggest franchise argument, you've only given the Mario franchise 4 characters (Wario + Yoshi are their own and Jumpman has long been forgotten and isn't exactly part of the franchise since Mario was introduced)

Don't know pretty much anything about Micaiah other than what I read on Wiseguy's runner-ups and while she sounds interesting enough I feel the Black Knight included (not as a clone) would probably be better. Still there's a lot of FE characters to choose from and if you want to go down the female route, I think there's been a lot more popular choices suggested (Lyn springs to mind). However, I don't have a clue about FE, so yeah.

Biggest weakness of your list is an unrealistic 5 3rd party choices. Sakurai stated there will be about 3 maximum and I just don't see 5 happening after that. Out of those that you did pick, Megaman and Sonic are more or less shoe-ins, Sonic much more than Megaman.

Like I said it isn't a bad list, but a few of those in my opinion "bad choices" stop myself from giving you anything higher than 8/10.

@Smash Daddy - Axe Wright and add Olimar, it's destiny.

 

[Smady]

You've convinced me enough, or rather you've successfully unlocked my Psyche Lock ( a Phoenix Wright joke, which you might not get). I'll be axing Phoenix Wright and probably a few others I cannot think of right now. My list was flawed in the sense that it didn't apply to the 40 rule, and I included one or two characters I didn't fully agree with. Olimar will certainly be in there.

And, yeah... Five StarFox characters? Three new characters devoted to StarFox?! That's an insanely ambitious prediction. Andross, too, makes it a dodgy one...

 

[Vali]

I'm going to update my list (when I can be arsed) with Bowser Jr. instead of Toad. The more I think about it, the more I'd just want to play Bowser Jr. due to the paintbrush. Might update Bobbery (as much as I do love him) to something slightly more realistic too. I'd probably throw in Llyod from ToS if it wouldn't be breaking the 3 3rd party rule and it'd be even more unrealistic than Bobbery in that regard .

Edit: This is actually quite a good example of how debating on the internet can actually turn out good. It's one of the few cases where one or both of the parties in the debate actually gets their opinion swayed rather going round in a pointless stubborn argument.

It's now updated on page 22.

 

[Smady]

Yeah, it's great that we both have realized a different opinion solely on the discussion we've had. It's what the internet's for, porn aside, I suppose. I'm glad you saw my points on Bowser Jr., although the whole paintbrush thing wasn't my argument.

I'm glad we didn't either come to a dead end or go on forever, it shows there is some hope left still in this place (which I don't doubt it has, unlike IGN or other less intelligent online communities). Thanks for telling me of my mistake as well. Quite embarassing if I hadn't changed it. Sometime later I'll get to work on a forty-character list that is as accurate as possible!