Meta Pound 2016 Competitive Impressions

[Pancracio17]

Yeah, you have to be kidding yourself to think mew2 isnt high tier now.

 

[BlazGreen]

He used MK for one match. Idk, top 8 out of 900+ with solo M2 screams somewhere in high tier to me, making mince meat of two other perceived top tiers Fox and multiple Sheiks.

Not only that but Rosalina isn't even a bad MU. If you had the choice of an even match or a +2 advantage then of course you'd pick the latter. Abadango has the advantage of knowing many characters and marking M2 down just because of it seems a bit silly.

 

[Djent]

You all aren't very good at being consistent. Mewtwo's results at majors are still worse than Pika's without a doubt, arguably worse than a lot of other characters because he couldn't do it solo. He ain't high tier yet. I'll believe it when Mewtwo does it multiple times... completely solo. No MK backup.

ESAM's top 8 placements occurred long enough ago that they're barely relevant to determining character viability now. Same for Ike/MM. 1.1.3 onwards is practically a different game for a number of reasons.

 

[bc1910]

>ESAM being the only solo Pikachu to make top 8 in major tournaments? "ESAM is the only thing holding up Pika's results, the rat shouldn't be in top tier"

>Solo Ike and MegaMan both get a top 8 at a major tournament, in the bottom half of mid tier in the official list

>Mewtwo gets one shared top 8 result, everyone is claiming he should be high tier and nobody claiming its Aba holding up Mewtwo's results.

You all aren't very good at being consistent. Mewtwo's results at majors are still worse than Pika's without a doubt, arguably worse than a lot of other characters because he couldn't do it solo. He ain't high tier yet. I'll believe it when Mewtwo does it multiple times... completely solo. No MK backup.

I agree that we'll need to see more consistency from Mewtwo, especially since Aba is amazing + MU knowledge is probably playing a part, but you can't deny that he's high tier after this. And unlike characters like Ike, Mega Man or even Greninja, it doesn't look like an uphill battle for him against the top characters. He just 3-0'd one of the USA's best players using two top tiers.

He used MK for one match. Idk, top 8 out of 900+ with solo M2 screams somewhere in high tier to me, making mince meat of two other perceived top tiers Fox and multiple Sheiks.

I think there were ~500 entrants (Melee had about 800-900) but yeah.

 

[BlazGreen]

Mr.R. did his homework.

 

[Pancracio17]

Mr. R copying voids greninja-esque setup 10 secconds later

 

[Xandercosm]

I just wanna say to all Mewtwo mains (as well as secondaries, I picked him up about a month ago ): You freaking earned this! All this time playing a character that has been relentlessly mocked, endlessly ridiculed, and you stayed with ol' Mewtwo no matter what! You guys deserved this so much for sticking with him and developing his meta even before he was in the spotlight. This is really an amazing day for Mewtwo players far and wide. This is meta development. This is how we make progress!

I love Mewtwo!

 

[Wintermelon43]

I just wanna say to all Mewtwo mains (as well as secondaries, I picked him up about a month ago ): You freaking earned this! All this time playing a character that has been relentlessly mocked, endlessly ridiculed, and you stayed with ol' Mewtwo the no matter what! You guys deserved this so much for sticking with him and developing his meta even before he was in the spotlight. This is really an amazing day for Mewtwo players far and wide. This is meta development. This is how we make progress!

I love Mewtwo!

I wish we Jigglypuff mains could say this lol

 

[Xandercosm]

I wish we Jigglypuff mains could say this lol

One Pokemon at a time... one Pokemon at a time...

 

[Pancracio17]

I wish we Jigglypuff mains could say this lol

next patch jiggs is getting meele up throw rest and mew2 fair. Mark my words.

 

[Wintermelon43]

next patch jiggs is getting meele up throw rest and mew2 fair. Mark my words.

This would be so amazing it isn't even in my best dreams

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I agree that we'll need to see more consistency from Mewtwo, especially since Aba is amazing + MU knowledge is probably playing a part, but you can't deny that he's high tier after this. And unlike characters like Ike, Mega Man or even Greninja, it doesn't look like an uphill battle for him against the top characters. He just 3-0'd one of the USA's best players using two top tiers.

Yes I can. I'll say it again: M2 isn't high tier. He doesn't have the consistency yet. I can say "That was just Aba being amazing" and nobody can prove me wrong because no other M2 is on that level. You have no proof its the character and not the player, Aba is a top level international player. He absolutely can take out top level people like Dabuz (remember what he did with Wario?). Pika at least has NAKAT secondarying him some times on the national stage. The other M2s do great at a local or regional level, but not national.

By the 4BR's standards: M2 isn't high tier until multiple people can do what Aba did. Without MK. And that's the truth, no amount of hype overrules that.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Yes I can. I'll say it again: M2 isn't high tier. He doesn't have the consistency yet. I can say "That was just Aba being amazing" and nobody can prove me wrong because no other M2 is on that level. You have no proof its the character and not the player, Aba is a top level international player. He absolutely can take out top level people like Dabuz (remember what he did with Wario?). Pika at least has NAKAT secondarying him some times on the national stage. The other M2s do great at a local or regional level, but not national.

By the 4BR's standards: M2 isn't high tier until multiple people can do what Aba did. Without MK. And that's the truth, no amount of hype overrules that.

You realize by high tier we mean 16-29 and whatever else along that lines right?

 

[Smog Frog]

i guess isnt high tier then

who other than larry lurr pulls in consistent results?

 

[TDK]

By the 4BR's standards: M2 isn't high tier until multiple people can do what Aba did. Without MK. And that's the truth, no amount of hype overrules that.

Using MK for 1 set in the entire tournament is pretty much solo M2.

 

[Y2Kay]

xzax, sodrek, shogune,.......

regardless mewtwo is "mid tier" by the 4BR standards. But no one likes there definiton of high tier anyway

 

[ARGHETH]

Using MK for 1 set in the entire tournament is pretty much solo M2.

I'm not going to take a side, but I'd like to point out that one set was against Dabuz.

 

[TDK]

Did Tweek just die to a Jab?

EDIT: And Mewtwo is the highest placing DLC. Cloud and Bayo out at 7th.

 

[bc1910]

Yes I can. I'll say it again: M2 isn't high tier. He doesn't have the consistency yet. I can say "That was just Aba being amazing" and nobody can prove me wrong because no other M2 is on that level. You have no proof its the character and not the player, Aba is a top level international player. He absolutely can take out top level people like Dabuz (remember what he did with Wario?). Pika at least has NAKAT secondarying him some times on the national stage. The other M2s do great at a local or regional level, but not national.

By the 4BR's standards: M2 isn't high tier until multiple people can do what Aba did. Without MK. And that's the truth, no amount of hype overrules that.

As others have already pointed out, plenty of top characters are "carried" by one player at national level.

I don't know why you would use 4BR's definition of high tier when it's incredibly flawed. This is the most balanced Smash game ever and Smash has never had less than ~1/3rd of the roster being high tier or above, yet they've got 3 top tiers and 10 high tiers? Less than 1/4 of the roster. Furthermore, almost every top player who posts a tier list (including ZeRo and Dabuz, who voted on the BR's list) has their high tier extending down to around 25th.

You're clinging to an archaic 1.1.3 definition of high tier that never really existed in the first place.

 

[NotLiquid]

What a heartbreaker for Tweek ;__;

Ally's Up Smash destroys dreams. Every single time.

 

[Y2Kay]

Well I mean, ESAM used corrin on Ally, so it isn't a solo Pikachu run.

omg guys smh pikachu's results are so invalidated by that one use of a secondary

 

[TDK]

Go Aba! Let's have Mewtwo win this whole tournament!

 

[NotLiquid]

Apropos nothing looks like bc1910 got their wish.

Mewtwo is the highest placing DLC character this tourney.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Yes I can. I'll say it again: M2 isn't high tier. He doesn't have the consistency yet. I can say "That was just Aba being amazing" and nobody can prove me wrong because no other M2 is on that level. You have no proof its the character and not the player, Aba is a top level international player. He absolutely can take out top level people like Dabuz (remember what he did with Wario?). Pika at least has NAKAT secondarying him some times on the national stage. The other M2s do great at a local or regional level, but not national.

By the 4BR's standards: M2 isn't high tier until multiple people can do what Aba did. Without MK. And that's the truth, no amount of hype overrules that.

Its not just results, its how they are gotten. M2 looks like a high tier when you see him played like that. Plus you arent considering enough of his results anyway. But irregardless, even when Ike got top 8 he didnt look like a high tier. You have to actually look at what is happening in the match. How the character is able to mix stuff up, cover options, ko, evade stuff etc etc, whether the char wins because the opponent screws up/doesnt know the matchup or because the char is stronk as hell. M2 looks pretty stronk 2 me. In contrast even when Larry has beaten top players with his DK that didnt rly make it look like DK was high tier. Same with Ike and several others.

If you the character is good its good, irregardless of how many players use it at top level. Basically.

 

[Das Koopa]

>people spamming "ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ RAISE YOUR ABADONGERS ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ" in chat

We did it redd-I mean Smashboards

 

[NairWizard]

If Abadango wins this tourney I will main Mewtwo

 

[Smog Frog]

is anyone else dropping hella frames? i didnt see 70% of that match

 

[TDK]

Actually, Marss has done just as well or better than Nairo in all the supernationals they've both been to that I know of (Genesis and Pound).

EDIT: I make a post and I miss Aba doing Nair footstool Disable kill on Marss.

 

[BlazGreen]

He did it again!

 

[apparently fuz]

Abadango showing that ZSS' ladder combo doesn't kill with proper DI, even on a stage like T&C.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

As others have already pointed out, plenty of top characters are "carried" by one player at national level.

I don't know why you would use 4BR's definition of high tier when it's incredibly flawed. This is the most balanced Smash game ever and Smash has never had less than ~1/3rd of the roster being high tier or above, yet they've got 3 top tiers and 10 high tiers? Less than 1/4 of the roster. Furthermore, almost every top player who posts a tier list (including ZeRo and Dabuz, who voted on the BR's list) has their high tier extending down to around 25th.

You're clinging to an archaic 1.1.3 definition of high tier that never really existed in the first place.

I'm not "clinging" to anything: its the only official list we have around here. It certainly exists: its in the first page of the other discussion topic. I'd much rather go by that than say, Zero who puts Shulk at the top of mid tier. Unless they change their grading system next time around: M2 ain't high tier.

If they change their system? Maybe. We don't know, it depends on how its changed if at all.

And yes, ESAM's run wasn't a solo one either. Though he still lost to Ally and generally secondary characters that don't let you advance in the tournament aren't counted. Or at least that's how it was in Brawl, it seems to be a bit flip floppy on that in SSB4.

On paper M2 also looks great there yes. So does Peach. You need both the theoretical data and the results to be high tier. M2 has the theoretical data, and he's starting to get the results. He's not there yet, there is nothing to prove it's not just Aba being amazing. Or lack of MU knowledge on the part of the others, M2 still ain't exactly a common pick but I don't exactly know each region by heart which is why I didn't bring up that point earlier.

Its pretty cool that a M2 is doing so amazing and all of that. He's very fun to watch. It wouldn't surprise me if M2 eventually gets to that point where he's considered a high tier. But he doesn't have the consistency yet. Like I hinted at before: Aba doing amazing with Wario didn't exactly shoot him to the ceiling.

 

[NotLiquid]

Abadango is our Grand Finalist on Winners Side.

Is this the first time he's ever gotten to this position in a national major?

 

[TDK]

Mewtwo in Grand Finals HYPE!

 

[sedrf]

well mewtwo is in grands
also does anybody feel that the players have no exp against m2

 

[Y2Kay]

I haven't been this excited since BEAST 6

Thank you, abadango, for making me look smart for saying Mewtwo is high tier (even though I'm not )

 

[Thinkaman]

By the 4BR's standards: M2 isn't high tier until multiple people can do what Aba did. Without MK. And that's the truth, no amount of hype overrules that.

I guess this game doesn't have any high tiers, then.

 

[juddy96]

Good stuff to Abadango but man Marss was playing really nervous. Never seen him miss so many grabs.

 

[TDK]

I guess this game doesn't have any high tiers, then.

Since I can't like this post more than once due to forum limitations, I will simply quote it again to share its magnificence.

 

[Yonder]

I'm not "clinging" to anything: its the only official list we have around here. It certainly exists: its in the first page of the other discussion topic. I'd much rather go by that than say, Zero who puts Shulk at the top of mid tier. Unless they change their grading system next time around: M2 ain't high tier.

If they change their system? Maybe. We don't know, it depends on how its changed if at all.

And yes, ESAM's run wasn't a solo one either. Though he still lost to Ally and generally secondary characters that don't let you advance in the tournament aren't counted. Or at least that's how it was in Brawl, it seems to be a bit flip floppy on that in SSB4.

On paper M2 also looks great there yes. So does Peach. You need both the theoretical data and the results to be high tier. M2 has the theoretical data, and he's starting to get the results. He's not there yet, there is nothing to prove it's not just Aba being amazing. Or lack of MU knowledge on the part of the others, M2 still ain't exactly a common pick but I don't exactly know each region by heart which is why I didn't bring up that point earlier.

Its pretty cool that a M2 is doing so amazing and all of that. He's very fun to watch. It wouldn't surprise me if M2 eventually gets to that point where he's considered a high tier. But he doesn't have the consistency yet. Like I hinted at before: Aba doing amazing with Wario didn't exactly shoot him to the ceiling.

Did Wario ever make Grand finals though? Also from this tourney we have discovered a very potential kill set up in nair to footstool to disable.

What M2 has displayed here is the ability to kill early, avoid kill set ups thanks to floatiness and airdodge, and able to play neutral because of his shadow ball and hard to rival range.

 

[NotLiquid]

Good stuff to Abadango but man Marss was playing really nervous. Never seen him miss so many grabs.

He's just making up for the fact that Nairo isn't there