Pokémon Trainer

[pupNapoleon]

If they aren't revealed before the 3DS release, I'd consider both Squirtle and Ivysaur definite goners. Why would they be unlockable, after all? It's either starter or they are gone.

...why? If anything they make more sense to be unlockable, how many gen one starting lineup do you want?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

...why? If anything they make more sense to be unlockable, how many gen one starting lineup do you want?

I don't think it's as much a question of how many generation one Pokémon that are on the starting roster as it is in how many Pokémon are on the starting roster in total. We already have 4 Pokémon characters on the starting roster, that's already a ton by previous standards.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That is the same amount we had in Brawl anyways. Sakurai did count Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle as separate characters.

 

[Masonomace]

Sup Unconfirmed PT Thread, but I feel like Squirtle & Ivysaur should have their own threads as well. PT in brawl only links all three PKMN in these ways (add onto the list If I forget):

• DownB = PKMN switch which cannot be used in the air by any of his PKMN *Mechanic = Zero Switching aka Baton Pass*
• Final Smash = Triple Finish
• Using all three PKMN in conjunction of a match
• Mechanics = Fatigue / Stamina Value / Type Effectiveness aka Elemental Weakness
• Strong grab/throw game. All three implement them differently
• All three PKMN's ledge attacks deal the exact same % damage. All three PKMN do 8% <100% and do 10% >100%

But other than that they're all interesting and unique in their own game play-styles. I'd love to see Squirtle & Ivysaur return to Sm4sh in any way whether they be Pokeballs or as fighting characters for DLC etc.. The game play use of Water is highly rare and use of Grass is even more rare than that so I'm totally faithful to both these characters returning somehow.

Edit: Now if PKMN Trainer made his way into Sm4sh with the brought up ideas in earlier pages involving 'summoning' then I'm all for that. HMs and Key Items can make a potential move-set to add into the mix. That would be a loooot of special moves though =O.

Double Edit: At first I thought that the PKMN would need their own threads, now it's mixed feelings. There's no MU chart of the individual PKMN vs. any other characters besides just being PKMN Trainer, but because of different MU's PKMN should have their own separate places for prevention of hard counters like grab releases or chain grabs. Examples like PT vs. Yoshi being heavily in Yoshi's favor because of grab release except for Ivysaur, while PT vs. DDD is also heavily in DDD's favor due to chain grabs against PT as a whole except for Squirtle.

 

[Rosalina&Greninja]

Sup Unconfirmed PT Thread, but I feel like Squirtle & Ivysaur should have their own threads as well. PT in brawl only links all three PKMN in these ways (add onto the list If I forget):

• DownB = PKMN switch which cannot be used in the air by any of his PKMN *Mechanic = Zero Switching aka Baton Pass*
• Final Smash = Triple Finish
• Using all three PKMN in conjunction of a match
• Mechanics = Fatigue / Stamina Value / Type Effectiveness aka Elemental Weakness
• Strong grab/throw game. All three implement them differently
• All three PKMN's ledge attacks deal the exact same % damage. All three PKMN do 8% <100% and do 10% >100%

But other than that they're all interesting and unique in their own game play-styles. I'd love to see Squirtle & Ivysaur return to Sm4sh in any way whether they be Pokeballs or as fighting characters for DLC etc.. The game play use of Water is highly rare and use of Grass is even more rare than that so I'm totally faithful to both these characters returning somehow.

Edit: Now if PKMN Trainer made his way into Sm4sh with the brought up ideas in earlier pages involving 'summoning' then I'm all for that. HMs and Key Items can make a potential move-set to add into the mix. That would be a loooot of special moves though =O.

Double Edit: At first I thought that the PKMN would need their own threads, now it's mixed feelings. There's no MU chart of the individual PKMN vs. any other characters besides just being PKMN Trainer, but because of different MU's PKMN should have their own separate places for prevention of hard counters like grab releases or chain grabs. Examples like PT vs. Yoshi being heavily in Yoshi's favor because of grab release except for Ivysaur, while PT vs. DDD is also heavily in DDD's favor due to chain grabs against PT as a whole except for Squirtle.

I second this, I want to talk about Squirtle and surrounded by others who also have a love for Squirtle and not having talk of other characters shoved between.


Sheik had her own topic so why not these two?

@ Shaya Could this be done?

 

[Shaya]

Has there been any issues with having split topics before (has anyone made them and have had them locked)? At the very least, the "Charizard" part of this topic is superfluous. But does the activity levels beget the requirement? Is there still merit to a "PT" discussion if there were separate Ivy/Squirtle ones?

 

[Rosalina&Greninja]

But does it really matter how much discussion they get? They are still their own characters. Its like not having a Pichu discussion since it would be mostly inactive and you can just talk about him in the Pikachu discussion. Our no Young Link since he and Toon Link are essentially the same and no one would talk about Young Link.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I will single-handedly reply to every squirtle comment if I must.

 

[Masonomace]

But does it really matter how much discussion they get? They are still their own characters. Its like not having a Pichu discussion since it would be mostly inactive and you can just talk about him in the Pikachu discussion. Our no Young Link since he and Toon Link are essentially the same and no one would talk about Young Link.

Young Link is understandable cus Toon Link is Young Link's predecessor so I dig that. I mostly agree for Pichu being a fun handicap character & Pikachu as a standard serious game-play, practically being semi / fully clones with their own statistics on their move-sets making them different yet similar.

It slightly matters for PT. It's not the same as a clone feature from Melee while also being 3 characters in 1, they have different mechanics & Advanced Techniques etc.. Discussing them together in one post is a bit of a cram for 3 separate playable characters in one post let alone in one thread, we'd need a thread and sub-threads withing that thread. Their MU's in a tier list or MU grid being only one spot irks me because it's a different battle for each of the PKMN to play those certain MU's. Some players do choose one to 'main' but in the end having separate threads would slightly organize the threads. Let the squirtles discuss only squirtle & so on & so on.

@ R Rosalina&Greninja yo re-edited this post fixing some of it because I was very derp earlier today & didn't fully get the meaning of your quoted post.

 

[Kevandre]

It just makes me so irritated, guys... Ivysaur and Squirtle are just such unique and fun characters to play. It's absolute BS that they get cut but the likes of Toon Link in his still-clone form exist. Makes my eye twitch.

I'm trying to still stay positive that they'll remain. But it's really slipping. I hope Sakurai's just trolling and is like "JK those guys are back too lol"

 

[Shaya]

I'll ask again.

Would this thread need to exist if Squirtle and Ivysaur had separate threads?
Is the inability to talk about Squirtle and Ivysaur separately such a big hindrance to discussion?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'll ask again.

Would this thread need to exist if Squirtle and Ivysaur had separate threads?
Is the inability to talk about Squirtle and Ivysaur separately such a big hindrance to discussion?

Well...considering that Sakurai announced no transformation characters and that Charizard was revealed to be by himself...I think Pokemon Trainer will not be coming back, but his Pokemon can.

So it makes sense to have Squirtle and Ivysaur as separate threads.

 

[Masonomace]

I'll ask again.

Would this thread need to exist if Squirtle and Ivysaur had separate threads?
Is the inability to talk about Squirtle and Ivysaur separately such a big hindrance to discussion?

Yooo Shaya~ I say for safe measures to include a Squirtle & Ivysaur thread along with keeping the PT thread in the process. Reason why to keep PT despite the starters separated is for the Unconfirmed PTrainer as DLC potential with others who theorycraft about the character being his own so yeah.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Jeez, this thread is all a PT fan has left. DON'T TAKE IT AWAY!

-

Anyway, I was just thinking, if 1-stock tournaments had become a thing earlier, would we be seeing the Pokes in the tier list separately? Or the matchup grid? The latter would have been really helpful.

 

[Masonomace]

Anyway, I was just thinking, if 1-stock tournaments had become a thing earlier, would we be seeing the Pokes in the tier list separately? Or the matchup grid? The latter would have been really helpful.

I definitely agree with that thought, PKMN in 1-stock matches emphasize more of the starting PKMN you choose switching to the next for the finish of the match / stock. Certain PKMN actually do better in MU's as their own separate MU so the tier list & MU grid would most likely change. PT as an entire character MU slot vs most of the cast actually makes it complex & not exactly correct. Two common bad MU's for PT being -3 DDD & -2 Yoshi are tough unless accordingly choosing Squirtle to balance to a -2 DDD & Ivysaur to balance -1 Yoshi in 1-stock matches.
http://www.cubeforum.fr/archives/do..._Chart/brawl_matchup_chart_public_v2_1024.png
@ shinhed-echi yo re-edited the post~

 

[KimmotMan]

I don't know if anyone already mentioned this, but wouldn't it be neat if Pokemon Trainer appeared in Charizard's Victory Screen?
I mean we got Doc in Little Mac's Victory Screen too.

 

[Masonomace]

I don't know if anyone already mentioned this, but wouldn't it be neat if Pokemon Trainer appeared in Charizard's Victory Screen?
I mean we got Doc in Little Mac's Victory Screen too.

I did see a post very similar to this & I was excited from the thought =). PTrainer or Red making a return to cheer on Charizard would be worth some kind of return.

Edit: Just a character appearance scene of PT / Red appearing with a Mega Bangle to MEvo Charizard or even a voice clip during Charizard's MEvo cinematic alone would add in the extra goodness of fan-base.

 

[Rosalina&Greninja]

solutions.

Have all 3, a Squirtle, an Ivysaur and a Pkmn Trainer.

Squirtle and Ivysaur are obvious while Pkmn Trainer could stay with the veterans for technicality or move into the main area as if he were to return, he would be for the most part a newcomer since he could use his wn moves and fight himself instead of sticking to the background. I could even be the one to start the thread.

Would that suffice @ Shaya

 

[Shaya]

I'll make a squirtle and ivysaur thread, and if this thread kinda dies a bit I'll close it, OR VICE VERSA.

As there are now 3 topics for 2 characters (Charizard being a confirmed singular veteran), I definitely feel there's a degree of redundancy around, things may get switched up. Have fun.

 

[Masonomace]

@ Shaya Thanks for Threading~ & have a good mornight.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I do not want to see Pokemon Trainer in with Charizard, it would screw up Sceptile and Greninja

 

[Masonomace]

I do not want to see Pokemon Trainer in with Charizard, it would screw up Sceptile and Greninja

Yeah...who was that PKMN Trainer anyway... does Red know his charizard's missing?

 

[Rosalina&Greninja]

Yeah...who was that PKMN Trainer anyway... does Red know his charizard's missing?

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[Masonomace]

Trying to find a appropriate thread for what I have to post about but w.e:

Pkmn heavily portrayed through types of attacks regardless of status / physical / special / healing, we've seen so much fire & Electric in most character's move-sets, not enough water or Ice & rarely any grass / Psychic at all. Obviously fighting as a type is something everyone has in a sense but SSE gave certain type of stickers based off of move-types themselves such as Arm Leg Head Spin Slash Throwing Electric & Freezing. What do you guys think about PT having an Ice type Pkmn in his summoning move-set & what mechanics would they involve? Only Ice Climbers & Lucas' PK Freeze did any so there was some representation of the attack type so there could be plenty more what this type could do.

 

[BlueBubbee]

\What do you guys think about PT having an Ice type Pkmn in his summoning move-set & what mechanics would they involve? Only Ice Climbers & Lucas' PK Freeze did any so there was some representation of the attack type so there could be plenty more what this type could do.

I'd personally like for him to have a Weavile if given an Ice Type. I imagine it'd work similar to the little iceberg item in Smash (I'm forgetting the name right now; it's the one that you throw and it freezes the opponent over and sends them flying).

 

[Masonomace]

@ BlueBubbee I dig that & also in case you didn't see my edited post in Jiggz welcome to SmashBoards. So what exactly would Weavile be doing that'd work similar to the Freezie?

 

[BlueBubbee]

@ BlueBubbee I dig that & also in case you didn't see my edited post in Jiggz welcome to SmashBoards. So what exactly would Weavile be doing that'd work similar to the Freezie?

Thanks! That's the first welcome I've gotten!

I believe it'd be Ice Shard would be the most reasonable depiction in my mind (quick slash forward that sends ice flying at the target), but that doesn't hold up to the games. Then again, Smash Pikachu still has Skull Bash so the games have no relevance here.

 

[Masonomace]

Thanks! That's the first welcome I've gotten!

I believe it'd be Ice Shard would be the most reasonable depiction in my mind (quick slash forward that sends ice flying at the target), but that doesn't hold up to the games. Then again, Smash Pikachu still has Skull Bash so the games have no relevance here.

Eggsactly. Game relevance means nothing to Sakurai, it means a little bit but not enough to restrict characters from using said attack moves. I like Ice Shard it would be fine for a poking projectile, uncharged & charging it changes it's side-effect of freezing someone in a block & laying on the ground / flying airborne?

 

[BlueBubbee]

I like Ice Shard it would be fine for a poking projectile, uncharged & charging it changes it's side-effect of freezing someone in a block & laying on the ground / flying airborne?

I never even thought of charging it! That's a great idea. I imagine charging it to look like the effect PK Freeze gives off just pulsing in one place. I would think that you shouldn't be able to charge it in the air, in which case it's just a quick jab that does ice damage but doesn't freeze the whole way.

 

[Masonomace]

I never even thought of charging it! That's a great idea. I imagine charging it to look like the effect PK Freeze gives off just pulsing in one place. I would think that you shouldn't be able to charge it in the air, in which case it's just a quick jab that does ice damage but doesn't freeze the whole way.

Yeah unless the Ice shards used in the air makes it's direction diagonally aimed downward similar to Sheik needles. Just as a new thought that occurred to me is the uncharged Ice Shard 'slowing' their movement. New Ice Mechanic anyone?

Weavile used Icy Wind! The opposing Pkmn's speed was reduced!

 

[BlueBubbee]

Yeah unless the Ice shards used in the air makes it's direction diagonally aimed downward similar to Sheik needles. Just as a new thought that occurred to me is the uncharged Ice Shard 'slowing' their movement. New Ice Mechanic anyone?

Sounds great, slowing someone down. Now I'm all excited for something that may not happen!

 

[Masonomace]

Sounds great, slowing someone down. Now I'm all excited for something that may not happen!

....T'is a sad joy of theory-crafting .
Ice as an over all element of nature slows things down, difficult journey's through blizzards etc. Slowing down would be great...*sigh*
Any other type attacks not represented enough that PTrainer for DLC could represent? Rock (gtfo Charizard's rock smash you're a fighting move! that uses a rock....) Bug Ghost Steel Dragon (again, gtfo MegaCharziardX ) Poison & Ground?

 

[BlueBubbee]

This may sound a bit dumb (or not, I don't know) but if we speculate Red (pkmn trnr) as a summoner character (sort of like Pac-Man; summons stuff for a single attack instead of having switch outs) we could represent Rock as a down smash or special nearly identical to Pac-Man's, but with two Geodude instead of the ghosts. Maybe rep Ground too with Diglett.

Maybe the more you charge it could end you up with

and

 

[Masonomace]

@ BlueBubbee
. OMG YES PLEASE <3 I have grown bumpy feelings for you. I'd be content with uncharged geodudes & FullyCharged Gravelers! Golem is just too strong for a Smash attack idea He'd be OHKO smash move.

Edit: Diglett is also good! Dugtrio for the extra numbers would = multi-hit attack most definitely!

 

[BlueBubbee]

@ BlueBubbee
. OMG YES PLEASE <3 I have grown bumpy feelings for you. I'd be content with uncharged geodudes & FullyCharged Gravelers! Golem is just too strong for a Smash attack idea He'd be OHKO smash move.

Edit: Diglett is also good! Dugtrio for the extra numbers would = multi-hit attack most definitely!

I was hesitant on putting that golem sprite there, too. I felt empty not doing it but awkward completing it.

I have grown bumpy feelings for you.

And thanks? I guess?

 

[Masonomace]

@ BlueBubbee I feel you on the golem, understandable. There's other Pkmn play-on words involving rock...but no comment won't go there.

Bug though...needs some love they're always around in the beginning of Pkmn journey's, it's just awkward discussing them for a Smash game because it's similar to grass' story but even worse. Bug literally has barely any rep about it with the exception of any Pokeball summons in Sm4sh or if you even pretend to consider Pikmin them...which is not even close.

 

[BlueBubbee]

@ BlueBubbee I feel you on the golem, understandable. There's other Pkmn play-on words involving rock...but no comment won't go there.

Bug though...needs some love they're always around in the beginning of Pkmn journey's, it's just awkward discussing them for a Smash game because it's similar to grass' story but even worse. Bug literally has barely any rep about it with the exception of any Pokeball summons in Sm4sh or if you even pretend to consider Pikmin them...which is not even close.

I get you on the rock puns, man. And yeah bug does need more reps. If only we could get those Beedrill back in the Pokeballs.

For Bug, they could do something with Bug Buzz. Possibly he holds out a Krikitune

and it does Bug Buzz as a shock wave type attack (I chose Krikitune because it's small and could be held. Burmy and other more obscure bugs could work well too.)

 

[monkokaio]

You fellas want an Ice type rep? Red doesn't have a Weavile, but he does have a Lapras.

Lapras for SM4SH

 

[BlueBubbee]

You fellas want an Ice type rep? Red doesn't have a Weavile, but he does have a Lapras.

Lapras for SM4SH

He might

 

[Masonomace]

@ BlueBubbee yes I dig the Beedril returning pokeball factor. I forgot about that & now I misss it... Beedril for a Bug Pkmn rep would be plain perfect imo. it's moderate size still being smaller than a human trainer so it can do for a summoning move, or return them as Pokeball summons would suffice too!

@ monkokaio yooo Lapras hype, I like all these ideas considering Red is Gen.1..err 2? 3? What other games in any generation has he been in!?

There'd be a lot of Gen.1 rep / love but I don't wanna miss out on any Gen 2 - 5. Owell