Pokémon Trainer

[Arthreeteseven]

I would love to see Ivysaur become Venasaur, Classic Pokemon Red vs. Green action! Plus Mega Venasaur is awesome!

 

[Zapster]

My guess is Mewtwo is back and so is Pokemon Trainer except now he/she will be on his/her own and fight using key items from throughout the series like Super Rod for a tether or something. Maybe HMs too with various pokemon utilized for the attacks, like Fly for the UpB. Less sure of the utilization of Pokemon but I bet Pokemon Trainer will come back but as a stand-in character. The idea is fresh, it incorporates the adventure part of the Pokemon games, and the original concept of Pokemon had the Pokemon Trainers fighting alongside their Pokemon.

As for Jiggs, either cut or Pokemon will have 7 reps.

And hooray for cutting transformations so the characters will be more balanced.

Now come at me people. I can't wait to hear the backlash that Jiggs is a member of the original 12 so therefore she must remain in every single iteration of smash forever. B)

 

[Morbi]

My guess is Mewtwo is back and so is Pokemon Trainer except now he/she will be on his/her own and fight using key items from throughout the series like Super Rod for a tether or something. Maybe HMs too with various pokemon utilized for the attacks, like Fly for the UpB. Less sure of the utilization of Pokemon but I bet Pokemon Trainer will come back but as a stand-in character. The idea is fresh, it incorporates the adventure part of the Pokemon games, and the original concept of Pokemon had the Pokemon Trainers fighting alongside their Pokemon.

As for Jiggs, either cut or Pokemon will have 7 reps.

And hooray for cutting transformations so the characters will be more balanced.

Now come at me people. I can't wait to hear the backlash that Jiggs is a member of the original 12 so therefore she must remain in every single iteration of smash forever. B)

I suppose Villager isn't using his fishing rod... so that must mean that they were saving it for someone. You might be on to something!

 

[shinhed-echi]

My guess is Mewtwo is back and so is Pokemon Trainer except now he/she will be on his/her own and fight using key items from throughout the series like Super Rod for a tether or something. Maybe HMs too with various pokemon utilized for the attacks, like Fly for the UpB. Less sure of the utilization of Pokemon but I bet Pokemon Trainer will come back but as a stand-in character. The idea is fresh, it incorporates the adventure part of the Pokemon games, and the original concept of Pokemon had the Pokemon Trainers fighting alongside their Pokemon.

As for Jiggs, either cut or Pokemon will have 7 reps.

And hooray for cutting transformations so the characters will be more balanced.

Now come at me people. I can't wait to hear the backlash that Jiggs is a member of the original 12 so therefore she must remain in every single iteration of smash forever. B)

Eh. I don't mind Jiggs much. At least not as much as PT. I would be perfectly OK with Jiggs being part of PT's moveset. I can see him using Pokemon for specials. (In fact, I can see him using Pokemon for everything). But trainer item usage isn't too out of the question.

I'm cautiously optimistic at his return. Puzzled at the mere THOUGHT of him being gone. There's got to be some sort of saving grace for perhaps the 2nd/3rd most popular videogame Pokemon character. I mean, original 12 or whatnot, I'm really sorry, but screw Jigglypuff. As much as I like her, she's not more important/deserving than PT. :/
Maybe there's room for her and Pichu in PT's new moveset?

 

[Phaazoid]

My guess is Mewtwo is back and so is Pokemon Trainer except now he/she will be on his/her own and fight using key items from throughout the series like Super Rod for a tether or something. Maybe HMs too with various pokemon utilized for the attacks, like Fly for the UpB. Less sure of the utilization of Pokemon but I bet Pokemon Trainer will come back but as a stand-in character. The idea is fresh, it incorporates the adventure part of the Pokemon games, and the original concept of Pokemon had the Pokemon Trainers fighting alongside their Pokemon.

As for Jiggs, either cut or Pokemon will have 7 reps.

And hooray for cutting transformations so the characters will be more balanced.

Now come at me people. I can't wait to hear the backlash that Jiggs is a member of the original 12 so therefore she must remain in every single iteration of smash forever. B)

Jiggs is a member of the original 12 therefore she must remain in every single iteration of smash forever

but I do think your PT idea is cool

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Assuming Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't coming back...

Would you be okay seeing the Blastoise and Venusaur poke balls make a return? Or would that just be a big middle finger to Pokemon Trainer fans?

 

[LightningVance]

What if hypothetically, Trainer returns, but with something else replacing Charizard? Like Pidgeot or something. I know in Red/Blue 99% of people had a Pidgeot on their teams so.. it'd kinda make sense. Plus it'd tie in with giving him a flyer again.

Or ya know..
Zubat

 

[AshFlash]

If Zero Suit Samus and Sheik are now separate characters, then it sounds like they want to get rid of the 2 in 1 characters. A 3 in 1 is even more likely to go. I suspect Pokemon Trainer will not return. If we are lucky, squirtle and ivysaur would be unlockable characters. I think it is a slim chance.

 

[Floor]

I suppose Villager isn't using his fishing rod... so that must mean that they were saving it for someone. You might be on to something!

I was think Villager's taunt would be the tumble he does when you try to fish on land.

@ Arthreeteseven and everyone for that matter
I have a soft spot in my heart for Ivysaur. When SSBB first got released, I was in the tournament that followed. I decided to pick Pkmn Trainer, since I thought I'd have the most options. Well, There was about 16 people. I ended up winning each fight. But the last opponent in the first round was quite something. I don't remember who I fought(Sheik, I think, but I'm not sure), but as it was a time match, we ended up with the same number of kills.

That's right, Sudden Death! And on the last fight too! What a finale it was.
My opponent and I(Ivysaur) both rushed into the fight, ready for blood. My attack came too late though. Wham! I was sent spiraling towards the top of the screen. OH NO! I thought. Remarkably, I started coming down. Another inch and I would've died. My opponent foolishly jumped up to meet me in my descent. In a last ditch effort, I used my Down A in the Air. IT WORKED! Ivysaur sent a plume of pink gas below, and My opponent was hit. They were sent in the air, faster than I had! I nearly dropped my wii remote when that happened. VICTORY!!!

I won the local round in this huge, world wide tournament. I lost immediately in the next round to Meta Knight, however.


Ever since then, Ivysaur has been one of my favorite pokemon. His aireial down A has been one of my favorite moves. My only regret is that I don't think I shook my opponents hand in the last match. I think I was too dumbfounded.

I hope Ivysaur at least gets a trophy (not even an assist) as an honorable mention.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

What if hypothetically, Trainer returns, but with something else replacing Charizard? Like Pidgeot or something. I know in Red/Blue 99% of people had a Pidgeot on their teams so.. it'd kinda make sense. Plus it'd tie in with giving him a flyer again.

Or ya know..
Zubat

Ain't gonna happen since transformations are no longer going to occur in this game.

 

[Zapster]

Ain't gonna happen since transformations are no longer going to occur in this game.

Yeah I think he/ she IS going to come back but fight on their own... and sorry Jiggs but sayonara. She's been crippled with the new game mechanics. She really needed the aerial dodge that they had in melee for her recovery

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Yeah I think he/ she IS going to come back but fight on their own... and sorry Jiggs but sayonara. She's been crippled with the new game mechanics. She really needed the aerial dodge that they had in melee for her recovery

Not really though. The highlight of the pokemon characters is fighting as the pokemon themselves so making a human a playable fighter ain't gonna happen either.
Besides, Jiggs will be back. Using the game's mechanics as an argument against that is just grasping for straws.

 

[Floor]

I agree with Ryu Myuutsu here. Besides, if anything, the new fairy type made Jiggs more "current". Not saying it affects her chances that much, but it made her "current" again.

 

[Zapster]

Not really though. The highlight of the pokemon characters is fighting as the pokemon themselves so making a human a playable fighter ain't gonna happen either.
Besides, Jiggs will be back. Using the game's mechanics as an argument against that is just grasping for straws.

... I didn't say the change in game mechanics was why Jigglypuff would be cut. I'm saying I don't care for Jigglypuff in Brawl because without Melee's aerial dodge her recovery was pretty gimpable. And you really don't know if Jiggs will be back. That's presumptuous. See, what you need to understand is that the whole "original 12" thing from 64 was really a fan-made thing. Sakurai undoubtedly has a soft spot for nostalgia, and would probably prefer to utilize a moveset that has already been done, but when it comes down to it, I think Sakurai would change the cast depending on current trends of popularity.

Pikachu is Pokemon's mascot, Charizard and Lucario are extremely popular, Greninja is a popular 6th gen, Mewtwo is extremely requested and is relevant with his 2 new megas, and Pokemon trainer has been an essential component to the entire series. Plus, I think Poke Trainer will really surprise people and bring the series together as now you have Pokemon and the human avatar that many people will identify with. Unless Pokemon goes up to 7 reps, I really don't see Jigglypuff making the cut.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Just two examples of characters that I know of who are all (or almost all, in the case of Fat Princess) about summoning other characters (out of nowhere) to fight for them.

-
It's not that I'm grasping at straws, it's just that.. say... Captain Falcon didn't get a moveset based on driving something, even though that's the only thing he did in his games. They used the backstory of being a bounty hunter to maybe further inspire him as a character, but.... Falcon just drove before.

Trainer may not fight in the games, as everything revolves around legal Pokemon battles. (Even when you're fighting criminal gangs like Team Rocket, etc).
But the manga does emphasize when the enemy fights without rules, and so must the Pokemon Trainer, for survival, become much deeply involved in the battle, even if it means HE has to knock a Pokemon or its trainer out with his bare hands if he has to.

... so come on, people, we've seen the least of fighter types fight. I mean... Villager for goodness sake.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Since Pokemon Trainer revolved around switching around his pokemon (and the mechanic has been confirmed to not happen anymore) I doubt he will return at all. While the summoning archetype could work, the vast number of pokemon available merits them as playable characters even more than a human trainer temporarily using his mons to attack. After all, the appeal of pokemon characters in a fighting game is in directly controlling the monsters themselves to battle.
In Brawl, even though Pokemon Trainer was a character you only get to play as Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard while never even controlling him. He was just an avatar for those three guys.

 

[shinhed-echi]

On the contrary. There's SO MANY Pokemon to choose from, only a select few can become playable.
Through a Pokemon Trainer "summoner" character, at least 6 more could be represented on the competitive battlefield.
The idea would be to represent the trainer itself. The avatar, the player, the one who the person playing the game uses throughout the majority of the adventure.

Even if it's something as lazy as exclusive Pokeball Item specials, that would be enough. You'd still be able to switch pokemon, but these wouldn't be actual characters, just Pokeball-esque pokemon with very limited moves (a max of 4 per Poke would be ideal, but 1 suffices).

 

[Floor]

On the contrary. There's SO MANY Pokemon to choose from, only a select few can become playable.
Through a Pokemon Trainer "summoner" character, at least 6 more could be represented on the competitive battlefield.
The idea would be to represent the trainer itself. The avatar, the player, the one who the person playing the game uses throughout the majority of the adventure.

Even if it's something as lazy as exclusive Pokeball Item specials, that would be enough. You'd still be able to switch pokemon, but these wouldn't be actual characters, just Pokeball-esque pokemon with very limited moves (a max of 4 per Poke would be ideal, but 1 suffices).

Here's the way I look at it.

The Pokemon games never really show off any physical attributes that Smash could turn into moves. You mentioned summoning... Yes, this is pretty much anyone's conclusion when deciding a move set for the trainer him/herself. A move set of PURE summoning would be dumb. If you can convince me of any moves that Pkmn trainer could have to make him similar to other characters, I'll start liking some posts here, but as it stands, having only summoning moves would get slow.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Here's the way I look at it.

The Pokemon games never really show off any physical attributes that Smash could turn into moves. You mentioned summoning... Yes, this is pretty much anyone's conclusion when deciding a move set for the trainer him/herself. A move set of PURE summoning would be dumb. If you can convince me of any moves that Pkmn trainer could have to make him similar to other characters, I'll start liking some posts here, but as it stands, having only summoning moves would get slow.

I'll get back to you on that one.
I don't promise to blow you away, but I have at least two variations of a moveset I had in mind.
I'll put it up sometime this week, in a way other than a wall of text to make it clearer.

 

[Floor]

I'll get back to you on that one.
I don't promise to blow you away, but I have at least two variations of a moveset I had in mind.
I'll put it up sometime this week, in a way other than a wall of text to make it clearer.

Message it to me if I don't respond soon.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I'll get back to you on that one.
I don't promise to blow you away, but I have at least two variations of a moveset I had in mind.
I'll put it up sometime this week, in a way other than a wall of text to make it clearer.

You probably mean something like Yuna from Dissidia

 

[shinhed-echi]

Alright. Here's what my ideal Pokemon Trainer (Red) would play like.

So far, the only difference Pokemon Trainer would have over other characters is... He has no smash attacks.
"WHAT!???"
Yes. The Trainer after all isn't suited for fighting himself. And without his pokemon, he's just an ordinary boy with no superpowers...
Here's where his specials come in:

The Gimmick:
Pokemon Trainer has no Smash Attacks, but his starter pokemon do. And together, they give P.T. about 9 Smash Attacks (3 per starter).
So, in order for Pokemon Trainer to have Smash Attacks, he MUST summon a Pokemon.

DOWN+B: Bulbasaur
NEUTRAL+B: Squirtle
TILT+B: Charmander

Each of these have:
1 Strong smash attack. (Vine Whip / Water Pulse / Fire Fang)
1 Average smash attack. (Razor Leaf / Rapid Spin / Ember)
1 Damage racking smash attack. (Poison Powder / Water Gun / Fire Spin)

Pokemon Trainer's UP+B consists of TWO more Pokemon.
While on AIR, he'll call Aerodactyl to recover using FLY, which works exactly like Metaknight's Shuttle Loop.
While on GROUND, he'll call Pichu, for 3 aditional Smash attacks.


How the gimmick works:
Pokemon can be KO'd, so you have to be careful when and where to summon them.
If you TAP the special, the Pokemon will appear right next to you.
If you HOLD the special for 0.5 seconds, PT will summon the pokemon at a little distance ahead of him.
If you HOLD the special for 1 seoncs or more, PT will summon the pokemon from pretty far.

Beware, these Pokemon can only aim Left or Right, they won't wander around the stage. They won't even try to get back to the stage. You can change their direction by smash-attacking in the direction you want them to look at.

WARNING:
If you let one of your pokemon get KO'd, you lose it and the access to all of its smash attacks.
You must prevent this from happening if you don't want to lose it.
You can only get your KO'd Pokemon back if the trainer himself gets KO'd.

Aerodactyl cannot be KO'd.


FAQ:
Why PICHU?
-Pichu will be a good damage racker. This time he doesn't hurt himself, though. This time, he can hurt the trainer, if the player isn't careful. Pichu is a good option when your damage is high. If his abilities are used right, the Trainer can get pulled back into the battlefield.
Also, to represent the bond between a main trainer and its Pikachu (because every version of Red has had a Pikachu), I add Pichu not onlly because Pikachu is already a playable character, but also as a nod to Melee.

Pokeballs can't catch people!
-Fair enough... but then again... Screw Attacks shouldn't be useable by just anyone, nor do Fire Flowers work like flamethrowers. We could break some rules for the sake of fun... But Trainer can have Escape Rope, or use Fishing Rod instead.

 

[Floor]

I think I understand what's going on here. Nice pictures by the way. It's honestly not that bad. This would break Sakurai's rule about transformations in a way. He said he wants to focus on a single moveset, and the starters and Pichu kind of break that, but I could definitely see this going into a smash game. Another thing, Squirtle, Bulbasuar and Charmander look to be essentially the same with moves. Sure almost all characters are, but with these additional movesets, there should be more variety. They all have...
A projectile, or a mid ranged attack.(Side)
An attack to hit all enemies near you(Down)
An attack that hits opponents above you(Up)

Now, for examples of diversity amongst other fighters, consider...

Spoiler

Character and Move---How it's different
Ike's side B ---Ike moves, Chargeable
Links's Boomerage---You can move while move boomerage is in use, Moves enemies with the weapon
Link's Bomb---So much here
Jiggs Sing---Again, so much.
Marth Side---Can turn into a unique combo

You can see how diverse they could be.

And it sounds like, while they are summoned, the trainer cannot move. This is VERY bad for the trainer. Sure, you can protect the trainer, cancel the summon and regain control, etc... But it's a bit of a hassle to have to manage all of this, and, provided canceling is not instantanious, dangerous.

What I was thinking, is make, for example
his SideB summon Pidgeot that darts forward and attacks like Porygon 2 did in Melee.
Or a DownB summons HitmonTop/Chan/Lee to perform a Counter (Maybe put too tyrouge. If so, the attack fails, and no counter)
Or a Side B that summons Pidgeot to send a non lethal gust. Pidgeot would spawn a little bit away from you, and send opponents towards you. There is no time delay to preform the attack. You can immediately follow up with another attack.

Now, of course, these are all summons, which makes the move set boring, but I was just listing diversity examples. I do, however, applaude that first photo with A attacks, as they are not full with summons.

Overall, I'd give the moveset a B- or a B. Just concerned with the Smash attacks. If those were fixed, would give it a solid A. So... Decent grade. You spent dedication... You've earned my respect.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Thanks!

I forgot to clear this up.
The Trainer is the one who's free to move wherever he wants, after summoning a Pokemon.
The Pokemon stands in place, and the player can only make it face left/right by attacking in said direction.
So, in a way, it's just like throwing a Pokeball item, except you have access to TWO more moves for each Poke.

Also, I didn't want to make the "smash specials" for each poke radically different between each other, because that would be kinda OP, to have 12 varieties of smash attacks.
By keeping them somewhat the same, switching around their rangeVSpowerVSdamage-racker, it'd still feel like 3 smash attacks. Otherwise, it would indeed feel like it's many characters instead of 1.

The idea to KO Pokemon came from SSB's Saffron City, where they pop out of the building, and you are able to KO them.
(If it's all too complicated, the Specials can simply be Pokeball items exclusive to Trainer).

 

[monkokaio]

Actually, I love the idea of the Pokemon Trainer's specials being his own special poke ball Pokemon. Kind of like his side special could be a poke ball containing Bulbasaur and it could use razor leaf in a similar manner to Chikorita, then once the move is done it disappears like regular poke ball items do. It's a nice idea. I doubt anything like that could ever happen though. It's a shame, Red fits in so well with the rest of the Smash Bros cast.

 

[Twin Shot]

I would like to see Red come back as a summoner type of character.

One of my favorite things was trophy collecting in Sub Space Emissary. Could be very cool if his Adventure/Classic/smashrun Mode revolved around using what moves you have (pokemon) to weaken other enemy like pokemon and add them to your moveset.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm surprised Squirtle and Ivysaur don't have their own threads.

Regardless, I hope both of them evolve and ditch the Trainer, and become Blastoise and Venusaur.

For those of you wondering "how would that work", wait for a big forthcoming project, and you'll see why it makes more sense.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Hmm... Yes.

Pokemon Trainer should definitely still 'summon' Pokemon, which are one attack each.
He gets six. But they do not fight. They can be used somehow strategically, such as in the pokemon games, but not as you CONTROLLING them, since you do not control the pokemons movements in the pokemon main games.
You can command the move they use only.

The standard attacks will be about throwing a pokeball, essentially, redirecting other players, perhaps? Catching, returning.... all about trying to move them into and out of the pokemon, while moving and evading the attacks themselves that opponents use?

Hmm... somehow like this in some way

All I know is I know sakurai could make it work, and Pokemon Trainer has been a needed character, representing something no other for Pokemon could.
Perhaps pokedex could be a move.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'd be happy if Pokemon Trainer's abilities are basically just pokeball items with Pokemon that are exclusively his.

His smash attacks should be Cut (up), Strength (down), Surf (side). :D

 

[Twin Shot]

I like the summoning idea.

His standards would be using game items.

Smashes would quickly summon different pokemon.

Specials would do the same as smash, but would be able to choose which pokemon you want in custom move sets.

 

[synesthe-sia]

THAT ************ CUT SQUIRTLE. UNFORGIVABLE. RIP IN PEACE TO THE REALEST POKEMON IN THE GAME.

Nah, really. Cutting the best newcomer? Oh boy, Sakurai. You've really done it this time. Cut Mewtwo? Sure. Cut Roy? See if I care. Cut Dr. Mario? Alright. Cut Squirtle? You're an asshole and I am glad about your arm pain. If he doesn't come back as DLC, I'm gonna have to be reasonably upset and take no real action about it because there's nothing I can do but complain on the internet. I'm achingly aware of my own limitations as a human being.

 

[pupNapoleon]

THAT MOTHER****ER CUT SQUIRTLE. UNFORGIVABLE. RIP IN PEACE TO THE REALEST POKEMON IN THE GAME.

Nah, really. Cutting the best newcomer? Oh boy, Sakurai. You've really done it this time. Cut Mewtwo? Sure. Cut Roy? See if I care. Cut Dr. Mario? Alright. Cut Squirtle? You're an ******* and I am glad about your arm pain. If he doesn't come back as DLC, I'm gonna have to be reasonably upset and take no real action about it because there's nothing I can do but complain on the internet. I'm achingly aware of my own limitations as a human being.

You are my sibling.

 

[synesthe-sia]

You are my sibling.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The fact that you just showed Naya Rivera as a response just makes you a twin.
Bravo. Or brava.
I wrote an ode to my fallen companion when the direct happened. it was a shame.

 

[synesthe-sia]

The fact that you just showed Naya Rivera as a response just makes you a twin.
Bravo. Or brava.
I wrote an ode to my fallen companion when the direct happened. it was a shame.

Yeah, man. Those latina women. It is my humble opinion that Squirtle is the cutest Pokemon. He was my first choice when I played Red/Blue (can't remember which) as a child and he was my first choice when I picked up FireRed as a very young teenager. It's a bit of a nostalgia thing, but he's remained one of my favorites as new generations have came along. Hoping he comes back as DLC with Ivysaur (and maybe Mewtwo, Snake and whoever) because there's no real reason to remove them, considering they're all not clones.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I share both of your sentiments. Squirtle was my starter back in Blue.

I am willing to forgive Sakurai for removing transformations if Squirtle and Ivysaur at least return as DLC.

That said, I don't think I'd main either of them since what I liked about them, was switching. But for casual play, I'm down for it.

 

[Ryan.]

I never liked having to switch between the three pokemon but Squirtle and Ivysaur were both really good. If we have to have DLC, I think they would both be good candidates.

 

[cmbsfm]

A small part of me thinks that these two pokemon or the trainer might be in. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still in.

 

[pupNapoleon]

A small part of me thinks that these two pokemon or the trainer might be in. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still in.

Me too. And if I werent an avid fan, it would bother me.
But I am, and it thusly excuses all.

Id actually like it if his moveset did have summons, and these summons included all previously cut pokemon (including Jiggs and Pichu); ultimately making him the 'cute pokemon' guy
Eevee unfortunately makes this not a thing, but... ya know, somehow

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A small part of me thinks that these two pokemon or the trainer might be in. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still in.

If they aren't revealed before the 3DS release, I'd consider both Squirtle and Ivysaur definite goners. Why would they be unlockable, after all? It's either starter or they are gone.