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Pac-Man Vs. : Matchup Discussion Thread- R.O.B. (Pac-MAN V.S Machine)

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Nu~

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Why are we only discussing ZSS's advantage state? lol
How is ZSS going to get things started from neutral against us? We can safely zone her out right outside of her grab range, and make it hard to approach us with the trampoline.
How much does ZSS's bair do? Because that would be the only quick option she has to knock over the hydrant
 

Firedemon0

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I knew that someone was going to link that XD

That is a gimmick, even for us, and not going to help us land safely considering how close to the ground we have to be to make it work. It's best use is honestly to murder someone trying to go under the stage.

@ Megamang Megamang you are absolutely right; on Battlefield the platforms do hinder our options a lot. That said, in a tournament set, every and all Pacman players should be perma-banning that stage, especially against ZSS (And if they don't; well enjoy your free win).
Strongly disagree with the Battlefield banned always assessment. I love the crap out of battlefield. I really need more time to type stuff up here. -_-

The ZSS Pac-man matchup is an even one personally. The one underneath is normally in pretty good shape and advantaged. While ZSS has an amazing nair and upair, her dair is a bit lacking imo, a whiff is dangerous. While her ability to use down-b to escape pressure is great, if knocked out of it, that is her only use of it till she gets back down. Pac-man also uses his down-B to escape pressure as well, just he does not get moved out of the way much.

The bigger matchup is each character trying to get the other in the air, where they are more potent. ZSS is very effective at killing up top because of Up-B setups. Pac-man, does most of his combos via air attacks and juggles. They each have tools to launch the other up, but it becomes a question of who does it better. ZSS has longer range on her throw, and it is stronger because of follow ups, but still very punishable. Pac-man is not really threatened by ZSS's ground game, outside of well spaced Tilts, ZSS can't really pop Pac-man up without throwing him. Pac-man, can cover his approaches with Melon and Galaxian pretty safely against ZSS to allow him to make offensive attacks. UP-B OOS is not the greatest choice to use against Pac-man unless he is blindly coming in with fairs.

Pac-man can make use of apple and orange effectively in this matchup to punish approach attempts by ZSS with a short hop apple, or punishing ending lag with orange. Down-B is a poor choice for ZSS again Pac-man with orange ready to go because it should hit if thrown OOS. Stun shot does not go through hydrant, and is canceled by everything Pac-man throws. This would be totally in Pac-man's favor on the ground if ZSS was not as fast. She is very effective at closing the distance, so zoning is not really all that effective for Pac-man.

ZSS's offense relies pretty heavily on prediction against Pac-man and he can change that up. Pac-man's requires setups and traps that ZSS should be able to safely avoid. So between the two, this matchup is definitely even. 50/50
 

Nu~

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Yeah...Battlefield is a playground for us. Sure, ZSS gets U air shenanigans, but she has few ways to get us up to the top platform considering all of our anti grab tools (trampoline, hydrant, fruit).

With platforms, we gain more possibilities for traps, a safer recovery, and more space to avoid grabs.
 

David Viran

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She doesn't need grab to take advantage of platforms. Nair combos into uair at mid to low percents and into grabs at low percents. Bair combos into grab at low to mid percents. Dsmash is obvious. Ftilt creates tech chase situations at mid percents. Landing uair combos into most things. She really wants a hit confirm more than anything not just a grab. Also zss loves the bair pressure when people are on the lower platforms.
 
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Maple42

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One should avoid using projectiles predictably; Flip Kick can capitalize on their ending lag. Trampoline can be used to get out of aerial combos, as well as for controlling the ground; a trampoline directly next to a hydrant is super hard to get rid of without either jumping to the other side of the hydrant or being forced in the air, which is free Bonus Fruit charging time. She can't really approach effectively due to that; I'm not saying to camp the entire time, but....

No, camp the entire time. I'm not seeing how she's gonna get past that, unless she wants to waste time trying to launch the Hydrant your way via using aerials, but, again, that'll be free charge time.
 

bekindrewind

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I have a friend who plays a dirty ZSS, and only recently I've been able to take games off of him (and JV 2 stocked him).

Trampoline is absolutely essential for ZSS. Always always always have one near you. ZSS' approach options when it comes to being aerial aren't exactly the best. Her SH Nair can be easily beaten by OOS Nair, and Oranges and Apples can pelt her while she tries to maneuver. She can grab through the hydrant, yes, but the trampoline will stop her grab and make Pac-Man bounce in the air.

Not to mention, she is extremely light. Hit her with a bell/trampoline trap and a solid fsmash and she can be killed probably around 90%. Blinky!!!
 

fromundaman

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We'll have to discuss the merits of BF on the stage thread, but at the very least don't take ZSS to her favorite stage. We have enough good stages that we shouldn't be taking people to stages they excel on.
 

Megamang

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I really don't think you should be landing an OOS move if ZSS is properly spacing and fastfalling her nair.
 

David Viran

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So you're telling me that you can avoid a frame 1 trampoline and frame 3 nair in that time?
The actual oos option for nair is not frame 3. There's jump squating to take into account. She might not be able to avoid it with a poorly spaced nair but nair is disjointed as heck so it has dat range.
 
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Nu~

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Since there's no activity here...
I'll put the ratio at 50:50. There's nothing that either of us have that puts the other at a significant disadvantage in the matchup.

Now is the time for voting!!
What matchup do you want to cover next?
I vote Mega Man, Villager, or a Fox rediscussion (because I feel that we destroy all of them, and I've had a change of heart in Fox)
 

NimbusSpark

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Personally, I must vote for Rosalina and Luma for who to cover next in the Matchup thread.
Most players just think - "Oh, it's a Pac-Man, I must summon the Space Elsa to beat him!"

Sure, she's our worst matchup, but she's not an insta-lose for us as other players think it really is.
Not to mention with quite a bit experience in our worst matchup, the tables can actually turn against her.
 

Nu~

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Personally, I must vote for Rosalina and Luma for who to cover next in the Matchup thread.
Most players just think - "Oh, it's a Pac-Man, I must summon the Space Elsa to beat him!"

Sure, she's our worst matchup, but she's not an insta-lose for us as other players think it really is.
Not to mention with quite a bit experience in our worst matchup, the tables can actually turn against her.
I laugh as people choose Rosa against me for an insta win.
Me and @Sinji have discussed the matchup a bit, and have come to the conclusion that the matchup may be in fact, in our favor. We need some more discussion on this

Our worst matchup is sonic no doubt IMO.
 
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fromundaman

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If Sonic is our worst matchup, then we are an even better character than I give us credit for, because the Sonic matchup is only bad online and on certain stages. Offline I feel the MU is dead even or very close to it.


I would vote Sonic, Kirby (Just so I can copy and paste my summary from the Kirby boards) or Mario.
 

COLINBG

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I'm down to do the Rosa one.

Or maybe something like Tink or Duck Hunt for a change? That would be cool too since all we did so far was pretty much top tier rushdown/agressive characters.

The Villager one interests me too because I main him.
 

fromundaman

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Didn't we already do Villager a while back in another thread? I definitely remember us talking about strategies to counter him.
 

COLINBG

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Didn't we already do Villager a while back in another thread? I definitely remember us talking about strategies to counter him.
It was in the general MU thread, but yeah we did indeed talk about him. For maybe like half a page. I'd still like to do a more in depths analysis myself, but I have no problem if you guys want to skip it for that reason.
 

BSP

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I would vote for a Sonic re-discussion. Rosalina would be nice so we could have a compiled compendium of information to point Pac-Man players to if they think Rosalina is our worst MU.

Mario would be nice too, as I'm off and on about him.

I'm going to do some deep analysis on Sonic when I get a chance soon. I don't think it's disagreed that he's our worst, but there is disagreement on just how bad it is.

I laugh as people choose Rosa against me for an insta win..
This has gotten funny to me now too. They fall apart once I start healing off of GP, and I KO Luma about ~5 seconds after it comes back each time. Pocket Rosalina is suicide against us.
 
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revengeska

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If you guys really think Rosa is fine for Pac, please enlighten me on how to play it. After getting 3 stocked two games in a row in loser's semifinals of a tourney against Rosa as Ness and Fox, respectively, I'm pretty desperate in figuring out a way to beat her.

Also, I play a pretty decent Fox, so I'm totally willing to spar against Pac-mains once I get my Wii U fixed to help with that matchup.
 

Nu~

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Alright, so most people want a Rosa discussion.
So we'll rediscuss her next!
She will be followed by a sonic rediscussion, and then we can vote again.

We return to the Luma observatory everyone! But this time, we've leaned the secrets of the universe...

image.jpg

Vs.
image.jpg
 

Froggy

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I played Fos Rosalina the Saturday before last. I kept it close but I lost 2-0. I do't mind that she can gravitational pull the fruits but that she can do it to the hydrant as well really threw me off. It's like you have to abandon your regular game plan against her just hoping to punish her after she down bs.
 

Nu~

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I played Fos Rosalina the Saturday before last. I kept it close but I lost 2-0. I do't mind that she can gravitational pull the fruits but that she can do it to the hydrant as well really threw me off. It's like you have to abandon your regular game plan against her just hoping to punish her after she down bs.
You do have to switch up your game plan, but Pac-Manis great at adapting anyway because of his versatility. Her GP ends the cooldown timer of your hydrant, so you can continuously blast hydrants at her if she GPs. Doing this will allow us to heal off of our side B.
The GP pulls our pellet, but we can eat it before it moves to her.

This makes her more weary about spamming down B because he heal every time she does it.

I have too many write ups on this to just repeat myself lol
Here are my thoughts on the matchup:

Rosa Discussion between me and @Sinji
I want to have a in depth discussion about the Rosalina match up. I think it's slightly in Pac-Man's favor. Pac-Man has the tools to be aggressive and make the rosalina player feel uncomfortable.

Oranges is his best tool in this match up for several reasons.

- It's the best way to approach
- It's the easiest way to separate Rosalina and Luma
- It flys fast and charges fast
- Great for edge guarding

I recommend using this most of the time in the match up. If Rosalina Gravitational Pull it and you approach her, the player will feel tempted to throw it away because she can't grab or go for her defensive aerials. At this time you go for aerials. fair>nair if she's in the air and chain combo it depending on the percent. Essentially, don't make her breath. You sense that she uses a lot of Gravitational pull and she at high percent, this may sound weird but use side b when she uses it. This forces the player to grab it but if you have a apple in hand, you can hit her within the animation. I don't go for the key that much since it takes a while to charge, it's not as strong as it should be and it can be dangerous if she pulls it from you. The hydrant and nair off stage can clip her from her up b since it has no hitbox. Going back to the orange. The reason why the orange splits Rosalina and Luma is because when the orange hits a a hurtbox, it pops up and has a lingering hitbox giving it enough time to hit any other hitbox that's nearby. Since Luma is levitating at a certain height, the orange slips past Luma , hits Rosalina at her toes and pops up hitting Luma's behind causing them to split. Similar to Foxes Shine in Melee, Pac-Man's Orange is the best way to separate them. Here is a recent video of Me vs a Rosalina.

I need feedback from you guys as well because frankly, people have been saying Abadango vs Dabuz ruined Smash 4 and I think the match up was very young and needed time to understand.

I've felt the same way lately man.
However, I feel that the melon, apple, and galaxian are some extremely strong fruits in this matchup.

The melon travels slow enough for you to run behind it. If she GP's it, punish her with a dash attack. This will pick up the fallen fruit and punish Rosa. It sends Luma flying as well!

The apple kills rosa early since she's a light floaty.
Galaxian shreds luma and allows us to combo rosa.

Use Side B during her GP to heal yourself. Makes her a lot less liberal about spamming it.

I'm guessing you also know that the hydrant ignores Rosa's uair. You can essentially force her into GP every time you are above her because shielding won't protect her luma.

I suggest playing an aggressive mid range game.
My overall thoughts on Pac-Man v. Rosa:
Call me a masochist, but I'm enjoying the rosalina matchup now. GP is fun to play with.

GP is incredibly punishable in mid range. If she tries to use it on my fruit in mid range, I just pick it up with a dash attack for a free z drop and free damage. Rosa should never use GP on the hydrant because if he are within a 1/3 of the distance of FD close to her, we can punish it (who cares about its low cooldown if the move lasts a year long)
I'm starting to think that Rosa's GP might be worse than the average reflector because of how laggy and nonoffensive it is. As long as you stay within mid range, her GP only helps you by giving you your fruit back as a z droppable item.
Keys and melons are your best friends. The key eats luma and blows rosa away, and in combination with the hydrant, it's an instant luma destroyer. You have to use the key at mid range or closer however, so that you can catch it once it hits the ground and she ran aims in the GP animation.
Any further and you just gave rosa your key.

The melon is good because you can run with it. If rosa GPs, then you can pick it up quickly with a dash attack since you are so close to it. If she shields, Luma gets blown back, and you can recatch the melon.

Rosa's uair loses to hydrant. This is pretty big, because rosa can't juggle us well like she can to any other character. If she baits the hydrant and uses an aerial GP, then ff nair her, or use the time to escape the area right above her.

GP only forces us to play a more mid range/CQC game, but it doesn't hinder us in any way. We shouldn't camp with pac-man anyway.

Now for Rosa's CQC.
She outranges us, it's pretty obvious. But her attacks last for centuries. If you powershield her nair, you can immediately follow up with a nair of your own or a double fair into nair. This is what makes the trampoline so amazing in this matchup. She can't approach us safely, and she is too slow to catch our landing. Fight rosa in the air, only if you are in her face. Stick to the ground if you are a distance away so that you can play the punish game. Her dair can be punished OoS by trampoline, her uair can be punished by the hydrant, her fair should never be used as an approach due to its landing lag and weird hitbox, and her nair can be punished out of a powershield or shield drop.

Fighting so many high ranking rosa players on smash ladder has changed me, I don't fear rosa any longer.
 
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Jenny Wakeman

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Bair, like with a lot of characters, I can feel being really potent against Rosa. She's tall, so it's easier to hit with, and the only thing Rosalina can do if she shields it is grab us and her grabs aren't very lethal, especially in the neutral.

Projectiles, I feel like, have to be used in a completely different way than most matchups. In the fact that, we don't expect them to rack damage up pretty much ever. Rosalina's down B doesn't get rid of the fruit, it only sets it to be grabbed. This can be bad for Rosalina, because we have z-dropping under our belt. What would happen if you z-drop any fruit and Rosa down-b's it? Bair her in the face.

Also remember the fact Rosalina has a recovery that leaves her completely vulnerable. This is something I feel like we need to work on and capitalize on the most, because this could give us an edge in the matchup. Of course, the general strategy against Rosa is killing Luma asap. Unfortunately, our bthrow looks like mario's, but doesn't have the same glorious property of hitting others while swinging. This would be a very easy way to kill Luma for us, but we don't have it. I've found some of the more effective moves to throw luma are moves like dash, ftilt, and possibly dtilt. None of these moves kill Luma in one hit. Imagine luma like a normal fighter; they don't move much when they are hit at low percents. Blinky also kills Luma if you're right near the ledge. Remember, Luma can't shield, so show Rosa your "Luma" and give em a rustle with ol' Blinky. You need 2 hits from Pinky/Clyde to knock Luma off near the edge if he's at full health. ftilt and an orange can kill luma near the edge at full health. an ftilt and even just the last hit of dash attack sends luma off the edge if theyre near the ledge. the last hit of dair also launches luma.


The game turns out to be really, pressuring Rosa near the ledge, and kill Luma. Then we space bairs, and possibly dtilts. z-dropping fruit as well. It all comes down to baiting that GP. We have kill power, but I feel like our ghosts can't help us as efficient as we'd like. I feel like our kills would come from bthrows, bairs or nairs, or even an uair if you can read a landing. Experimenting with the recovery, using side-b to challenge rosa off stage might be good and might be bad. She can GP the pellet, basically not allowing us to use that move until she gets back to the stage, but something to remember is that GP has cooldown. baiting the GP can lead to a more predictable angle of her Up B, and somehow, I'm not entirely sure yet, we can begin to edgeguard her.
 

Jenny Wakeman

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Also, If you can get both hits from side b to hit Luma it launches him. It's an effective way to kill luma easy if you can get away with not being punished by rosa.
 

BSP

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BSP said:
In other news, I ran into this guy on FG who had a good Captain Falcon. He beat me about 5 times in a row, was catching my fruits, so he was pretty good. Then he switched to Rosalina...these are wifi, but still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1V2u8o7PfI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRqqMO92pyU

Those two matches show why I don't think Rosalina is that bad for us. If she's aggro, it's a bit harder, but then she leaves more openings as well.

  • It only took 1 PP heal for him/her to stop using GP, and offline GP spam should be free heals or punishes. Passive Rosalina does not work in the MU. Dabuz vs Abadango should never happen again. If she shields/rolls/sidesteps hydrants, Luma will die, and then Pac-Man can go in. If she jumps, she puts herself into the air for you. Have fun, and take that opportunity to stomp the yard until Luma is dead. I haven't tested her moves for clashing vs a launched hydrant, but I would imagine any move sufficiently strong enough to clash = Key to the face after the clash is done.
  • You can easily KO Luma with Dair. I stair-master it off the stage lol. Since it can't block or airdodge, you can get rid of it whenever you see an opening really. The multiple hits of Dair also make it more likely to catch Luma on the move, as opposed to a Smash that leaves you stationary. As I've said, Dair's final hit will put Luma into tumble regardless of its %. You can combo it to death.
  • As Pacman9 pointed out, hydrant > her Uair. We can't be juggled as easily as others by her.
  • Rosalina isn't the fastest character around, so you can be trampoline heavy and get away with it.
  • Don't depend on PP for recovery. We shouldn't need it too badly though.
  • I would stick with Key primarily, with some Melon (Follow it) if you want to mix things up.
I take a more campy approach to the MU, focusing on Hydrant, trampoline, and trying to be unpredictable with Key. I think playing super opportunistic / going for the timeout is a viable strategy if Rosalina doesn't go aggro. It's not the only strategy that works, but I was clearly in control of the match. The only way it could've been better is if I didn't always run away from Rosalina after planting a hydrant. Pacman9 says midrange pressure is pretty effective against her too. Something like what I did is what I imagine Abadango will do next time he runs into Rosa.
Another approach to the MU, depending on how you like to play. Pac-Man wins neutral IMO. At the least, he doesn't have to approach them.

The key to the camping + opportunist strategy is centered around hydrant, backed by trampoline and Key. Continuously Fair launching hydrants at the duo forces them to do something, and that something should always be in Pac-Man's favor be it healing, a punish, positional advantage, etc. When Rosalina goes aggro to counter this, do what others have suggested about mid range strats, or keep running away and force her to chase you down. Don't be too focused on running that you miss free % though. Don't get too predictable with the hydrant either. Don't always plant and run away, mix it up.

Also, trampoline: Rosalina's aerials have great range, but that comes with great commitment. Forcing aerial approaches with trampoline is not a bad idea.

I recommend charging Keys as they are the hardest fruit to catch, travel fastest, and they shred + pierce through Luma. Make Rosalina wary of liberal GP use and throw keys in randomly. Still, don't throw keys from really long range unless Rosalina is in the air. Try to always be able to get over there in time so you can pressure her in the case she GP's your Key.

I can't stress enough how good Dair is for killing Luma. It will always put it into tumble, and it is very easy to combo it off of the stage at any %. If there is ever less than 1/4 of the stage between Luma and you, it's as good as dead. Even if Rosalina punishes you, I think it's worth KO'ing Luma (unless the punish will KO you of course).

Remember that if she grabs the ledge, throw a hydrant down to KO Luma immediately.

I'm calling this even until I see reason otherwise.
 
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Nu~

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Another approach to the MU, depending on how you like to play. Pac-Man wins neutral IMO. At the least, he doesn't have to approach them.

The key to the camping + opportunist strategy is centered around hydrant, backed by trampoline and Key. Continuously Fair launching hydrants at the duo forces them to do something, and that something should always be in Pac-Man's favor be it healing, a punish, positional advantage, etc. When Rosalina goes aggro to counter this, do what others have suggested about mid range strats, or keep running away and force her to chase you down. Don't be too focused on running that you miss free % though. Don't get too predictable with the hydrant either. Don't always plant and run away, mix it up.

Also, trampoline: Rosalina's aerials have great range, but that comes with great commitment. Forcing aerial approaches with trampoline is not a bad idea.

I recommend charging Keys as they are the hardest fruit to catch, travel fastest, and they shred + pierce through Luma. Make Rosalina wary of liberal GP use and throw keys in randomly. Still, don't throw keys from really long range unless Rosalina is in the air. Try to always be able to get over there in time so you can pressure her in the case she GP's your Key.

I can't stress enough how good Dair is for killing Luma. It will always put it into tumble, and it is very easy to combo it off of the stage at any %. If there is ever less than 1/4 of the stage between Luma and you, it's as good as dead. Even if Rosalina punishes you, I think it's worth KO'ing Luma (unless the punish will KO you of course).

Remember that if she grabs the ledge, throw a hydrant down to KO Luma immediately.

I won't give a ratio until I can experience this MU more offline, but it's slight Rosalina advantage at worst.
Good stuff man!
And don't worry about providing a ratio, the discussion and the reason behind the ratio matters more anyway.
 

Snatcher_Boss02

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PAC Man's down smash hit box is something to be worshipped. Actually all of his smash moves. Just when you think you can approach him after a smash attack, you get blasted into tomorrow. The ending lag on it is crazy.
 

revengeska

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After losing in Losers Semis of a recent tournament to a Rosalina, getting 3 stocked using both Ness and Fox, I'll revisit the matchup. I've invited perhaps the best Rosalina player in Minnesota over tomorrow for practice, I'll try applying the suggestions here in the thread and record our matches to see how it works out. I'm tired of losing to her so I'm going to really have to focus on how to beat her.
 

fromundaman

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I don't have a huge amount of time right now, but another good way to pressure her is to do Fair>hydrant since none of her moves are fast enough to hit in between them and hydrant will launch luma every time.

I pretty much use hydrant in this MU exclusively as a close range pressure tool or for ledge traps.
 

Jenny Wakeman

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On-Fire Hydrant is a pretty efficient tool in the matchup imo. Luma gets trapped behind a hydrant, and if you place the hydrant even about 1/3 in of a stage, the fire launches him off. It also gives an offensive advantage to not kick the hydrant. Having the hydrant just spurt flames is probably a safer bet of Rosalina getting hit, if she doesn't space GP properly.

The On-Fire Hydrant also helps with z-dropping. Because the flame hitting us lets go of any fruit, any fruit we choose can be z-dropped. Having a z-dropping key out a majority of the match can really really help us. Keys also launch Luma far too.
 

Nu~

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On-Fire Hydrant is a pretty efficient tool in the matchup imo. Luma gets trapped behind a hydrant, and if you place the hydrant even about 1/3 in of a stage, the fire launches him off. It also gives an offensive advantage to not kick the hydrant. Having the hydrant just spurt flames is probably a safer bet of Rosalina getting hit, if she doesn't space GP properly.

The On-Fire Hydrant also helps with z-dropping. Because the flame hitting us lets go of any fruit, any fruit we choose can be z-dropped. Having a z-dropping key out a majority of the match can really really help us. Keys also launch Luma far too.
The one disadvantage is that our hydrant will do less damage when dropped, but I still take it to the matchup anyway. The positives far outweigh the one negative
 
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Jenny Wakeman

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The one disadvantage is that our hydrant will do less damage when dropped, but I still take it to the matchup anyway. The positives far outweigh the one negative
Fire Hydrant drops get stale and go down to percents like 7%. Having On-Fire only do 6% fresh is no big deal, especially since a dropped hydrant shouldn't even be expected to hit Rosa unless you get out of an uair chain or punish an attack.
 

Nu~

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Fire Hydrant drops get stale and go down to percents like 7%. Having On-Fire only do 6% fresh is no big deal, especially since a dropped hydrant shouldn't even be expected to hit Rosa unless you get out of an uair chain or punish an attack.
That's actually what I meant. More damage dealt while escaping the disadvantage state. We are one of the only characters that has a safe way to escape Rosa's uair juggles.
You also have to remember that a stale 6% becomes 4%. Not necessarily a strong way to get rosa from under us.

But yes, I agree. On fire hydrant is superior for this matchup
 

revengeska

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Posted these in the video thread as well, but noticed that these were the most recently discussed here. The games vs ZSS were to show off examples of what lazy fruit can do, the games vs Rosalina were matchup practice. The former I used 3121(3111 is my normal, but wasn't available) and the latter I used 1122. This Rosalina is one of the best in Minnesota. Feel free to critique or enjoy!

vs ZSS #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIjJCoiguEQ
vs ZSS #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O04fSQEBa3s
vs Rosaluma #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saE2Fm_o3vk
vs Rosaluma #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWmdJf9ogWM
vs Rosaluma #3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=644P86N0w34
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka. :p

I know... That ain't Falco, but whatever. Evening, ladies and gentlepacs, the Falco boards started their ongoing Pac-Man discussion and would be thrilled to have input from the maze master himself. Link to the thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-34-pac-man-pizza-cake.402811/.

And if you want to play or learn more about the matchup, check this thread out: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.
 
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mario123007

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That's actually what I meant. More damage dealt while escaping the disadvantage state. We are one of the only characters that has a safe way to escape Rosa's uair juggles.
You also have to remember that a stale 6% becomes 4%. Not necessarily a strong way to get rosa from under us.

But yes, I agree. On fire hydrant is superior for this matchup
A good utilizing the fire hydrant can not only prevent Luma approaching, but can also give her damage.
I don't know how can Pacman escape her Uair juggles since he falls pretty slow. Is being slow at air can prevent being juggled?
 
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