Pac-Man Vs. : Matchup Discussion Thread- R.O.B. (Pac-MAN V.S Machine)

[NimbusSpark]

I personally give this MU 60:40 in Pac's favour.

The MU against Captain Falcon in Pac-Man's case is in a way similar to that of the Diddy Kong Matchup, with both Cap and Diddy being fairly simple to edgeguard, have slow air speed thus are decent trampoline fodder and having the ability to easily destroy you with hell raising combos once they manage get up close.

In this case though, Pac Vs Cap is in my opinion more easier to handle when he's in your face compared to Diddy Kong. Pac's F-Air and N-Air can single handedly outspeed all of Cap's air moves (His fastest attack is his beautiful Up-Air, which starts exactly 1 frame later than Pac's F-Air), whilst all of Pac's Tilts are approximately the same speed, or can beat out Captain Falcon's dash attack, tilts and smashes, thus Pac's neutral game is arguably better, and that's not even counting Pac's insane stage control.

But don't take this MU as easier than Diddy. Whilst I must agree that we still have the upper hand in this match-up because of our zoning capabilites, projectiling, better neutral game and insane gimping ability, Cap can and will take us down if he sees an opening in our defences and uses them. Whilst he may not be as fast as Diddy attack wise, he's got more reliable KO power and is generally harder to take down in theory, considering his fairly heavy weight and better recovery, whilst still having the excellent .gif and YouTube worthy combos that can destroy us in seconds, especially considering the fact that Pac's slight floatiness makes it easier for him.

 

[Jay-kun]

I personally give this MU 60:40 in Pac's favour.

The MU against Captain Falcon in Pac-Man's case is in a way similar to that of the Diddy Kong Matchup, with both Cap and Diddy being fairly simple to edgeguard, have slow air speed thus are decent trampoline fodder and having the ability to easily destroy you with hell raising combos once they manage get up close.

In this case though, Pac Vs Cap is in my opinion more easier to handle when he's in your face compared to Diddy Kong. Pac's F-Air and N-Air can single handedly outspeed all of Cap's air moves (His fastest attack is his beautiful Up-Air, which starts exactly 1 frame later than Pac's F-Air), whilst all of Pac's Tilts are approximately the same speed, or can beat out Captain Falcon's dash attack, tilts and smashes, thus Pac's neutral game is arguably better, and that's not even counting Pac's insane stage control.

But don't take this MU as easier than Diddy. Whilst I must agree that we still have the upper hand in this match-up because of our zoning capabilites, projectiling, better neutral game and insane gimping ability, Cap can and will take us down if he sees an opening in our defences and uses them. Whilst he may not be as fast as Diddy attack wise, he's got more reliable KO power and is generally harder to take down in theory, considering his fairly heavy weight and better recovery, whilst still having the excellent .gif and YouTube worthy combos that can destroy us in seconds, especially considering the fact that Pac's slight floatiness makes it easier for him.

hmm i agree but shielding out of dash... that is a problem. 55:45? In Capt's favor?

 

[Nu~]

Goodness, can we just account for customs already so that this 40:60 becomes a swift 30:70 lol.
Give Pac-Man even better traps AND kill setups with 2 rediculously safe meteors to boot?
Not to mention, Falcon receives barely anything useful outside of a better vertical recovery.
This matchup is destined to be horrible for Falcon in the long run lol

 

[Jay-kun]

Goodness, can we just account for customs already so that this 40:60 becomes a swift 30:70 lol.
Give Pac-Man even better traps AND kill setups with 2 rediculously safe meteors to boot?
Not to mention, Falcon receives barely anything useful outside of a better vertical recovery.
This matchup is destined to be horrible for Falcon in the long run lol

i hate saying this but i agree D:

 

[revengeska]

Excuse you. I think we might have a difference in skill level if you cannot pull off a safe/ successful grab against Diddy Kong. NO offense is meant. I feel that that last sentence is unnecessary. Instead, we should give examples to show why we are right, and restrain from using our personal feelings in a "factual" "recommendation".

Based on the amount you're suggesting that we use the worst grab in the game, I'm pretty confident that I'm better than you. Go watch high level Pac matches vs Diddy and see how often grab is used. It's not often, and it's either for a punish/hard read, or they get punished themselves. I've done my homework on this, and I don't believe you have.

Now on to Captain Falcon, in the past I've had trouble dealing with him. But as I've gotten more experience I've come to realize that Pac does have an advantage on him, and it may be sizeable. You will likely be using grab a fair amount as a punish here because the reward is enormous due to comboing ability, but don't think you can just throw it out randomly. A good CF is able to simply run in and grab after a whiffed grab with correct timing.

Be careful where you place the hydrant; unlike Diddy, CF has options to launch it fairly quickly. If they do launch it quickly and you're landing in the wrong place, you're in a position you certainly don't want to be vs CF. Trampoline does real work in this matchup, don't hesitate to use it for separation. Since it's faster than most of CF's moves, it doubles as an excellent "get off me" move.

Pac has tremendous camping capabilities in this matchup. Don't be afraid to use a lot of oranges and strawberries, or even cherries. All of these are quick enough to cover his dashing towards you. If they get knocked down at mid-range, throwing orange at this right time covers rolling both forward and backward. Orange is also fantastic for an offstage gimp since it knocks CF straight back and CF has poor horizontal recovery.

CF will likely try to edgeguard you with either a knee/spike or trying to punish your getting up from the ledge. If you are recovering fairly high you should be able to cover yourself by charging and throwing an orange/strawberry on your way to the ledge. Try not to get grabbed, but if you do the resulting uair attempt should be avoidable at higher percents with air dodge, and it's harder for CF to punish an air dodge of a uair attempt than it is for Diddy. Going in close against a CF is high risk medium reward because his punishes can be devastating, so given the matchup advantage you're probably better off generally playing it safer.

The conservative part of me wants to put 60/40 in favor of Pac, but that makes this merely a slight advantage. So I'll say 65/35 Pac to reflect the more moderate advantage, I think we'll see CF mains counter picking to other characters sooner or later.

 

[Nu~]

Based on the amount you're suggesting that we use the worst grab in the game, I'm pretty confident that I'm better than you. Go watch high level Pac matches vs Diddy and see how often grab is used. It's not often, and it's either for a punish/hard read, or they get punished themselves. I've done my homework on this, and I don't believe you have.

Now on to Captain Falcon, in the past I've had trouble dealing with him. But as I've gotten more experience I've come to realize that Pac does have an advantage on him, and it may be sizeable. You will likely be using grab a fair amount as a punish here because the reward is enormous due to comboing ability, but don't think you can just throw it out randomly. A good CF is able to simply run in and grab after a whiffed grab with correct timing.

Be careful where you place the hydrant; unlike Diddy, CF has options to launch it fairly quickly. If they do launch it quickly and you're landing in the wrong place, you're in a position you certainly don't want to be vs CF. Trampoline does real work in this matchup, don't hesitate to use it for separation. Since it's faster than most of CF's moves, it doubles as an excellent "get off me" move.

Pac has tremendous camping capabilities in this matchup. Don't be afraid to use a lot of oranges and strawberries, or even cherries. All of these are quick enough to cover his dashing towards you. If they get knocked down at mid-range, throwing orange at this right time covers rolling both forward and backward. Orange is also fantastic for an offstage gimp since it knocks CF straight back and CF has poor horizontal recovery.

CF will likely try to edgeguard you with either a knee/spike or trying to punish your getting up from the ledge. If you are recovering fairly high you should be able to cover yourself by charging and throwing an orange/strawberry on your way to the ledge. Try not to get grabbed, but if you do the resulting uair attempt should be avoidable at higher percents with air dodge, and it's harder for CF to punish an air dodge of a uair attempt than it is for Diddy. Going in close against a CF is high risk medium reward because his punishes can be devastating, so given the matchup advantage you're probably better off generally playing it safer.

The conservative part of me wants to put 60/40 in favor of Pac, but that makes this merely a slight advantage. So I'll say 65/35 Pac to reflect the more moderate advantage, I think we'll see CF mains counter picking to other characters sooner or later.

Actually, villager has the worst grab statistically. Comes out later with worse end lag

 

[revengeska]

Actually, villager has the worst grab statistically. Comes out later with worse end lag

Do you have any sources for this info?

 

[Reaper Talk]

I would also like to add that Battlefield may be Captain Falcon's counter pick against Pac Man
Freaky Fruit Cherry does wonders and so does Fire Hydrant against rush down characters but with the platforms on Battlefield it gives Pac Man a slight disadvantage

 

[Spirst]

Do you have any sources for this info?

It's half true. Startup grab for Pacman is indeed faster but the end lag is worse than Villager's. Easy way to test this? Go to training mode with control over both characters in 1/4x speed. Input grab at the same time then shield and see who can shield faster. By the time Pacman's beam is about 1/3 in size and ending, Villager can already shield. As for proof of startup? Use Mastercore.

Pacman:
072 - Grab
def game_72():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=12.000000, )

Villager:
072 - Grab
def game_72():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=15.000000, )

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/

 

[Firedemon0]

I may be in the minority, but I find Battlefield to be an awesome stage as Pac-man. You can drop hydrants through platforms. Its easy to stage spike with hydrant. You can platform tech chases with Side B safely. Pac-man can safely apply platform pressure with up-smash. He can avoid Trampoline use punishes with platform tricks. Edge cancelling is very easy to accomplish. You can also avoid attacks with a SH Hydrant, which puts you on a platform above your opponent.

I've been rather quiet on the boards because life, and I am working hard in the lab with customs, but I have noticed an increased negativity about Pac-man Matchups. I hope to be a bit more active soon, I am working on finishing up last minute steps for my local Monthly with my fellow TO's. So we will see what happens.

I tend to be hyper aggressive with Pac-man, and it throws off opponents. My neutral game has improved immessely I think, and I should hopefully be able to put out some quality videos for Pac-man soon.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Battlefield isn't bad for every match up
I just get tossed around by Captain Falcon here (I will take note on your advice for platform pressure)
I tend to be more defensive so I would choose mostly Smashville and FD for this match up
Also, the board is growing so don't worry about the negativity

 

[Firedemon0]

Battlefield isn't bad for every match up
I just get tossed around by Captain Falcon here (I will take note on your advice for platform pressure)
I tend to be more defensive so I would choose mostly Smashville and FD for this match up
Also, the board is growing so don't worry about the negativity

Also noticed I missed a few matchups, but eh.

Captain Falcon is disadvantaged against Pac-man. His approach options are limited to Pac-man, and he has to play patiently trying to slowly work his way in for a grab, where he can rack damage quickly. This would work, if Pac-man did not have hydrant. Offstage, It is Pac-man's to lose. You can bait out up-b and punish with hydrant, you can gimp with orange. You can also trap him on ledge with trampoline or bell.

If he is a grab happy Cap, you can trampoline, or spot dodge and then punish with OSS Nair. If he dash attacks, grab him and rack up easy percent. You have to be mindful of the patterns the player uses and you will be able to exploit the attack about 80-90% of the time. Captain Falcon is a high risk high reward play-style. Pac-man has tools to reset back to neutral easily, where he has the advantage.

I would put this matchup strongly in Pac-man's favor, 65:35.

As a side note.

BF is not a bad stage for Captain falcon because of it's size and platforms, it allows him to follow up quickly with upair strings, and use Knee to apply platform pressure. However this works against him too, as Pac-man can follow up with his own up-air strings, and Falcon cannot really do much to stop him. He has less room to bait attacks from Pac-man, giving us a strong advantage in the neutral game. He can do empty hops and foxtrots to attempt to bait a response, but if he makes a pattern, Strawberry and cherry are very effective punishes, as he will land on/run into them.

 

[Jay-kun]

Based on the amount you're suggesting that we use the worst grab in the game, I'm pretty confident that I'm better than you. Go watch high level Pac matches vs Diddy and see how often grab is used. It's not often, and it's either for a punish/hard read, or they get punished themselves. I've done my homework on this, and I don't believe you have.

Now on to Captain Falcon, in the past I've had trouble dealing with him. But as I've gotten more experience I've come to realize that Pac does have an advantage on him, and it may be sizeable. You will likely be using grab a fair amount as a punish here because the reward is enormous due to comboing ability, but don't think you can just throw it out randomly. A good CF is able to simply run in and grab after a whiffed grab with correct timing.

Be careful where you place the hydrant; unlike Diddy, CF has options to launch it fairly quickly. If they do launch it quickly and you're landing in the wrong place, you're in a position you certainly don't want to be vs CF. Trampoline does real work in this matchup, don't hesitate to use it for separation. Since it's faster than most of CF's moves, it doubles as an excellent "get off me" move.

Pac has tremendous camping capabilities in this matchup. Don't be afraid to use a lot of oranges and strawberries, or even cherries. All of these are quick enough to cover his dashing towards you. If they get knocked down at mid-range, throwing orange at this right time covers rolling both forward and backward. Orange is also fantastic for an offstage gimp since it knocks CF straight back and CF has poor horizontal recovery.

CF will likely try to edgeguard you with either a knee/spike or trying to punish your getting up from the ledge. If you are recovering fairly high you should be able to cover yourself by charging and throwing an orange/strawberry on your way to the ledge. Try not to get grabbed, but if you do the resulting uair attempt should be avoidable at higher percents with air dodge, and it's harder for CF to punish an air dodge of a uair attempt than it is for Diddy. Going in close against a CF is high risk medium reward because his punishes can be devastating, so given the matchup advantage you're probably better off generally playing it safer.

The conservative part of me wants to put 60/40 in favor of Pac, but that makes this merely a slight advantage. So I'll say 65/35 Pac to reflect the more moderate advantage, I think we'll see CF mains counter picking to other characters sooner or later.

exactly, I think that God made every one pretty unique and so I'm not a Abadango tryhard.. Dragontamer Edits.

What is weird is that our MU's on most "top characters" come out as us in the advantage, but in reality it is the opposite.

It's half true. Startup grab for Pacman is indeed faster but the end lag is worse than Villager's. Easy way to test this? Go to training mode with control over both characters in 1/4x speed. Input grab at the same time then shield and see who can shield faster. By the time Pacman's beam is about 1/3 in size and ending, Villager can already shield. As for proof of startup? Use Mastercore.

Pacman:
072 - Grab
def game_72():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=12.000000, )

Villager:
072 - Grab
def game_72():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=15.000000, )

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/

me like ur profile <3

 

[Nu~]

exactly, I think that God made every one pretty unique and so I'm not a Abadango tryhard.. (also, why the aggressivenessissis? i even said NO FENSSE')
What is weird is that our MU's on most "top characters" come out as us in the advantage, but in reality it is the opposite.

Dragontamer Ninja Edits.

Also, you must think that we are just pulling this info out of our ****. In reality, these matchups are still in our favor last time I checked. Your experiences are not the end all be all. If you want to sail that sea, then let me direct you to the 2 stock matches I had on a high ranking smash ladder player who knows the pac-man matchup, or Abadango destroying nietono's fox.
In fact, even the sonic matchup is starting to feel a lot easier, contrary to popular belief.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Back on topic...
I vote for a 60:40 match up in Pac Man's favor against CF
I can roll with a 65:35 though if everyone else feels like we have a bigger advantage

 

[revengeska]

exactly, I think that God made every one pretty unique and so I'm not a Abadango tryhard.. Dragontamer Ninja Edits

What is weird is that our MU's on most "top characters" come out as us in the advantage, but in reality it is the opposite.

Dragontamer Ninja Edits.

In reality, our matchups vs top tier characters are probably a mixed bag. We do well against some and have our trouble matchups. Not unlike most high tier characters.

 

[dragontamer]

I'm nipping this problem in the bud. I'd rather not give my first warnings out, so I'm gonna just edit your arguments and delete some posts.

Do not respond to accusations of hostility with hostility. We're all here to learn PacMan. If you aren't talking about PacMan, then please refocus your discussion on PacMan.

I'm pretty confident that I'm better than you.

Keep challenges on the field. Theorycraft challenges are worthless. Real-challenges and organized tournament fights are where its at. There is also another place for trash-talk I'm sure, but it certainly isn't around here.

I don't want to see "theorycraft challenges" around here. Do not issue "I'm better than you" talk unless you have a plan to back it up and prove it... preferably in some offline environment where a fair fight can go down.

 

[Nu~]

Dragontamer Ninja Edits with absolute powers, ftw. Lets keep the conversation on the topic of Pacman, shall we?

So 35:65 in our favor? I believe that the Captain has a very hard time in this matchup.

 

[Jay-kun]

Dragontamer Ninja Edits with absolute powers, ftw. Lets keep the conversation on the topic of Pacman, shall we?

So 35:65 in our favor? I believe that the Captain has a very hard time in this matchup.

No! I realized that discussing something and doing that in reality are two very different things.

 

[Nu~]

No! I realized that discussing something and doing that in reality are two very different things.

Then I would love to see your matches against Falcons. I test my theorycraft, and it works. Falcon gets shrekt.
And lol @ D dragontamer .
Sigh. Fine, I'll behave

 

[Jay-kun]

Then I would love to see your matches against Falcons. I test my theorycraft, and it works. Falcon gets shrekt.
And lol @ D dragontamer .
Sigh. Fine, I'll behave

oh! Pacman9 senpai thinks im good!!! aregato!! idea: we post vids of the MU's and discuss them. Also if anyone knows an organized thread please try recommending some ideas we can incorporate into ours! Also ://) im taking a shower ;} i feel exposed ;p

 

[Nu~]

I wouldn't use experience as the end all be all either...everyone has different experiences and theories.
There is a video thread for analyzing vids anyway

 

[dragontamer]

I've gone through the past page or so about three times, I think I got everything out. If yall think I should edit anything else out, please send me a Private Message or bring it up in the Pac-Mod discussion thread. I think my edits are self-explanatory, and I can private-message you the original messages (before I edited them) if anyone requests.

Beyond that, I'll confirm my opinion of 60:40 vs Captain Falcon, with Pac-Man's favor. Its just a slight advantage IMO, because his rushdown is above average. His high-cooldown attacks do open himself up to a lot of our (slow as heck) 12f throw, which is 11% dmg on the down-throw, +3% damage per pummel, and a severe advantage if they fail to tech.

USmash on a predicted double-jump is also a great followup.

Yeah yeah, our throw sucks. But I do think we get to use it more often vs Capt. Falcon because his attacks just have so much cooldown. Its not an attack to use in the neutral, but its PacMan's best guaranteed damage option outside of key and FSmash. Pummel + DThrow is an easy 14%, possibly more if you predict the opponent on the followups.

Capt. Falcon is heavy though, and KOs us much earlier than we KO him. So we must play it safe. But I think a careful barrage of fruit and ftilt keeps the matchup in our favor.

 

[Jay-kun]

I've gone through the past page or so about three times, I think I got everything out. If yall think I should edit anything else out, please send me a Private Message or bring it up in the Pac-Mod discussion thread. I think my edits are self-explanatory, and I can private-message you the original messages (before I edited them) if anyone requests.

Beyond that, I'll confirm my opinion of 60:40 vs Captain Falcon, with Pac-Man's favor. Its just a slight advantage IMO, because his rushdown is above average. His high-cooldown attacks do open himself up to a lot of our (slow as heck) 12f throw, which is 11% dmg on the down-throw, +3% damage per pummel, and a severe advantage if they fail to tech.

USmash on a predicted double-jump is also a great followup.

Yeah yeah, our throw sucks. But I do think we get to use it more often vs Capt. Falcon because his attacks just have so much cooldown. Its not an attack to use in the neutral, but its PacMan's best guaranteed damage option outside of key and FSmash. Pummel + DThrow is an easy 14%, possibly more if you predict the opponent on the followups.

Capt. Falcon is heavy though, and KOs us much earlier than we KO him. So we must play it safe. But I think a careful barrage of fruit and ftilt keeps the matchup in our favor.

he can jump over when we throw and use falcon kick(!), catch with dash attack, airdodge, or just shield in dash. sometimes it seems that projectiley chars. are underpowered.. on aerial game no. he can just fair and clash with everything, or use a correctly timed uair. once we are offstage, we lose, our recovery is too vulnerable, he can suddenly fast fall dair spike, or hit with sourspot to knock us far into the break line, or he can camp near the ledge and spike us with side-b. if we recover after throwing a fruit he can do a wall jump, airdodge catch-immediate rethrow shenanigans. his side-b and down-b pressure is more then ours, really all Pacman has is a key waiting to be thrown. if we roll, we die, jump, he fairs, spotdodge, he waits it out and punishes with falcon punch (!). he can just wait us out like a mexican standoff, but Pacman can't.

 

[dragontamer]

How is PacMan losing against Capt. Falcon's 14-frame Fair?

Capt. Falcon has an excellent Nair, maybe that's what you're talking about? Its a decent spacing tool, but just change your aim toward's Capt. Falcon's legs instead of his body if he's spamming that move. PacMan's Fair is quite disjointed, and proper spacing should have PacMan winning aerial battles most of the time.

his side-b and down-b pressure is more then ours

Shield and punish? Side-B and Down-B are almost certainly open to grab punishes (although someone please lab it out for me). They might have so much lag that FSmash actually hits Capt. Falcon. Its just not an attack that Capt. Falcon can use very often... against anyone.

Its at very least a guaranteed Jab/Jab/Jab, or FTilt. I don't have the training partners to discover the optimal punish, but there's a lot of cooldown on those attacks.

if we roll, we die

True for about everyone though. Don't roll very often.

jump, he fairs,

Jump after he does. Then Fair him.

spotdodge, he waits it out and punishes with falcon punch (!)

Don't spotdodge randomly. Its definitely a weaker move in this game.

he can just wait us out like a mexican standoff, but Pacman can't.

FTilt him. It forces Capt. Falcon to (power)shield, Side-B, or Down-B against us. All of which is an advantage towards PacMan IMO. Opponents can't react to our 5-frame FTilt. They have to preemptively predict it. I prefer the footsies where the opponent is going to do a predictable thing.

 

[Jay-kun]

oh true forgot about f tilt wooowww.. f-tilt OP, i think Lucario's is better though

 

[Nu~]

Captain falcon matchup over. 40:60 in our favor appears to be the general concensus.

Now we head towards hyrule, where we take on Shiek!

 

[COLINBG]

/watch?v=fpxTba7w678
Abadango (Pac) vs Nietono (Sheik)
It's the highest level match I've seen of this MU so I think it's worth watching. Will edit with my opinion later or repost if too much has been said already.

 

[Nu~]

/watch?v=fpxTba7w678
Abadango (Pac) vs Nietono (Sheik)
It's the highest level match I've seen of this MU so I think it's worth watching. Will edit with my opinion later or repost if too much has been said already.

I feel that he lost because he didn't know how to get the kill . He even had an opportunity at 2:12 to footstool into fsmash for the kill.
I also think he may have been a little too passive. He gave Shiek the advantage whenever he exited a combo to run away for space. What was the biggest factor imo was that he let his tools get used against him. He threw out too much fruit just as general pressure, but forgot that Shiek can just grab it OoS if you don't immediately follow it up. This is why I believe he should have been more aggresive.

I think he has a little bit of a rolling habit too, which cost him the first game (and the second game against ninjalink at apex)

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

I feel like the main reason we can't keep up with Sheik is because of how exploitable and avoidable our defense is. Hydrant can only help you so much at creating some breathing room against Sheik's unrelenting offense and mixups, and playing aggresive isn't the most effective way of dealing with her since her needles and rolls are too good against Pac-Man.
I feel like this is one matchup where On-Fire Hydrant would be really really useful. It's multiple fire spurts help way more since they do damage and have surprisingly strong knockback despite it's low damage, and combined with the trampoline, it allows us to keep offensive pressure while actually keeping an on stage threat at the ready, since On-Fire Hydrant kills earlier than normal Hydrant when launched.

 

[Nu~]

Eh, constant rolls are easily punished by our long lasting down smash, and needles are blocked by every fruit + hydrant meat shield.
I do understand where you are coming from. We can't keep her out for long.
Customs certainly help this however.
The 2132 set is my favorite set to use against Shiek.

 

[COLINBG]

Excluding 3 things: Sheik being Sheik (combos mainly), not making optimal decisions (like not choosing the right option to get up from the ledge and stuff like that), not reacting fast enough (not punishing/shielding in time), this is why he got hit:

1st match:
Unsafe Nair (2x)
Fruit charging when Sheik is too close/can retaliate (2x)
Going in when it's not the moment (1x)
Trying to throw a fruit at the wrong moment, when Sheik is too close (1x)
Not respecting the Bair (1x)
Unsafe smash attack (1x)
Prioritizing hydrant launch over safety (2x)

2nd match:
Unsafe Nair (2x)
Rolling (1x)
Not respecting the Bair (1x)
UpB at the wrong moment that puts him in free fall (1x)
Placing a hydrant when Sheik is close, but not under him, and getting punished for that (either once or twice, not sure but too lazy to rewatch)
Prioritizing hydrant launch over safety (2x)
Unsafe Smash attack (1x)

I might have missed some things, but overall that's it.

He did roll a decent amount of time, but I only noted one time he got really punished for it. Maybe that's just me who can't watch properly, but I don't think it was his main problem here.

I feel like Sheik is a tricky MU, but it was also somewhat Abadango not playing well enough. He was unsafe when he should have been, and did not go in when he should have. That cost him the match.

Sheik does have trouble killing, her main killing options being Bair, Uair and Bouncing Fish. Respecting her Bair is definitely something you should be doing, and be aware of when a well-placed Bouncing Fish can get you. Other than that, she has great aerials in general, so definitely respect them too. I'm not too sure if it's a good idea to try to challenge them. Trampoline OoS seems to work well to do some damage and get away.

I can't do testing against a Sheik main offline until Thursday, so this is all based on the video and on previous experiences. It's not the most solid basis, but it's still something to work on. I'd give the MU a 55:45 (or possibly a 60:40) in Sheik's favor, for now, but it's definitely possible to win.

 

[Reaper Talk]

We got ground game covered but we have to respect Sheik's air game.
Fire hydrant and apples are your best friend.
Apple is probably one of the most reliable kill tools
My preferred approach is On-Fire Hydrant -> Galaxian

 

[HarajukuNinja]

I feel that this is one of Sheik's more annoying mu's. One thing Pac has going for him is that most of his fruit cancels out Sheik's needles, forcing her to be more wary when using them. The second thing is how creative and unpredictable Pac can be with his moves. However, due to Sheik's great mobility, she can keep up him as long as she's careful.

As someone else had mentioned, Sheik has problem killing, or rather she has to wait for the opponent to make a mistake or forces them to mess up and pounce on it when she gets the chance. In short, she's an opportunist.... like a ninja

I'm not too familiar with the way of Pac-mains, but based on the good ones that I have faced, he can be a problem for her if he doesn't become too predictable.

45:55

 

[COLINBG]

I feel that this is one of Sheik's more annoying mu's.

Pac is annoying for eveyone, not just Sheik :3

One thing Pac has going for him is that most of his fruit cancels out Sheik's needles, forcing her to be more wary when using them.

True, but the needles aren't game breaking. They are good because they're fast, but do little damage and no knockback. So while it is always nice to have an advantage on that, it's not as useful as other things.

The second thing is how creative and unpredictable Pac can be with his moves. However, due to Sheik's great mobility, she can keep up him as long as she's careful.

Yeah, that's why we love playing Pac I do feel like it has a lot to do in most of his MUs. This is definitely something we should always be taking advantage of. She can keep up because that's what Sheik does, but we can mix up. So it evens up I think.

As someone else had mentioned, Sheik has problem killing, or rather she has to wait for the opponent to make a mistake or forces them to mess up and pounce on it when she gets the chance. In short, she's an opportunist.... like a ninja

I think this is really what we should be using the most against her. As long as we make her sweat and work for her kills, and as long as we're aware of her kill options and know how to dodge/respect them, it should be a lot easier. This is one of our tickets to win.

I'm not too familiar with the way of Pac-mains, but based on the good ones that I have faced, he can be a problem for her if he doesn't become too predictable.

Thanks for the feedback, we really apreciate it! It's always good to have an other character main come and tell us how he feels about it. I know you said he's one of the annoying MUs, but do you consider it a hard one? Are you usually confident when facing a Pacman or is it something that scares you a little? You said he can be a problem, but you gave the MU a 45:55 Sheik. Could you elaborate as to why exactly you think Sheik has a small advantage?

 

[Nu~]

People are finally fighting GOOD Pac-Mains?!?!
The dream is here everyone!
*sheds single tear*

 

[HarajukuNinja]

Pac is annoying for eveyone, not just Sheik :3



True, but the needles aren't game breaking. They are good because they're fast, but do little damage and no knockback. So while it is always nice to have an advantage on that, it's not as useful as other things.



Yeah, that's why we love playing Pac I do feel like it has a lot to do in most of his MUs. This is definitely something we should always be taking advantage of. She can keep up because that's what Sheik does, but we can mix up. So it evens up I think.



I think this is really what we should be using the most against her. As long as we make her sweat and work for her kills, and as long as we're aware of her kill options and know how to dodge/respect them, it should be a lot easier. This is one of our tickets to win.



Thanks for the feedback, we really apreciate it! It's always good to have an other character main come and tell us how he feels about it. I know you said he's one of the annoying MUs, but do you consider it a hard one? Are you usually confident when facing a Pacman or is it something that scares you a little? You said he can be a problem, but you gave the MU a 45:55 Sheik. Could you elaborate as to why exactly you think Sheik has a small advantage?

When I say more problematic, I mean in comparision to the rest of the cast. Like I said, she's one of the characters who can keep up with his antics. She herself can be can be unpredictable as due to how fast most of her moves are. Once she gets a hold of you, she can keep the momentum going, especially at lower percents. What make him a bit of annoying mu is that I feel that Pac can keep her out much easier than most characters. Sorry for not being very clear before.

 

[NimbusSpark]

My personal feeling on Shiek VS Pac Man in this matchup is pretty even overall.
To note a few things...

• Pac has a harder time fighting Shiek up close, mainly because of most Shiek's moves out speed Pac's. All of Shiek's tilts are literally as fast as Pac's forward tilt. (Getting hitboxes at 5 frames.)
• Both Pac and Shiek lack massively reliable K.O. moves, although Pac has the upper hand in this part of the MU due to having ways to work around it, such as gimping or using the bell as a setup.
• In addition to Shiek's lack of K.O. moves, Pac also has that great recovery. We can and we probably will stay in the match for a little while before the Shiekah actually slays us.
• Our Bonus Fruit beats out Shiek's needles, thus our projectile game is arguably better. Also, if she recklessly pulls out a grenade she's gonna leave herself open, making her likely to get punished by our keys.
• Trampolines won't do that much to Shiek - in fact, I'd say it's not benefical using the standard Trampoline as a trap at all, especially considering that her air game is actually better than her ground game.
• The only real 'slow' move that Shiek has is her Down Air, coming out at Frame 15. Everything else is above the average speed, besides her Down Smash. (I added all the frame data of all non-Mii characters specific moves and averaged it out. The average for Down Smash according to my research is 11 frames, whilst for a Down Air it's 13.)

This is a bit biased, but I'd say that MU is at 50:50. Shiek generally has an easier time approaching Pac, thus taking out Pac's excellent zoning ability, but Pac can actually try and take down Shiek without fumbling for smashes and all that stuff.

 

[Nu~]

I would take either the meteor trampoline or power pac jump to this matchup. Meteor trampoline is a crazy good trap once it hits red (and it hits red immediatley after you hit the opponent with the attack) and freaky fruit can either push Shiek into it, or pull her (freaky strawberry, freaky cherry)

On fire hydrant makes it even more dangerous for her to approach.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Freaky Cherry is glorious.

One hit and the advantage is yours.

Not to mention Pac Lazer Orange, Airplane Melon and coming to steal your ninja-girl Strawberry.