Official SWF Tier List v8

[Espy Rose]

Because all you have to do to beat Sonic is dtilt.
It helps if you also have a shield and can grab.

 

[NickRiddle]

ZSS not having a grab is why she doesn't poop on Sonic, so I believe that statement.

 

[Demna]

No offence or anything, but am I the only one who sees that Diddy kong doesn't deserve to be in the A+ Top tier? The only top player that I've seen play with Diddy is ADHD, and even ADHD mostly gets recked by better snakes/falcos/olimars.Tbh, I see Diddy kong as top middle tier. Would someone offer a reasonable explanation on why he's ranked the 4th in the tier list?

 

[BlueXenon]

No offence or anything, but am I the only one who sees that Diddy kong doesn't deserve to be in the A+ Top tier? The only top player that I've seen play with Diddy is ADHD, and even ADHD mostly gets recked by better snakes/falcos/olimars.Tbh, I see Diddy kong as top middle tier. Would someone offer a reasonable explanation on why he's ranked the 4th in the tier list?

When did ADHD get recked by snakes/falcos/olimars?

 

[Demna]

When did ADHD get recked by snakes/falcos/olimars?

Streams, money matches, and tournament matches that can be found on youtube. Maybe I have exaggurated on the word "wrecked" but he I never saw a diddy kong win a big tournament or even qualify as top 5 in a big tournament. I brought ADHD as an example because he's the best Diddy kong player that I so far know.

 

[Ishiey]

ADHD doesn't even really play this game any more though... I guess Zinoto would be the best Diddy that's actually active atm?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

ADHD doesn't even really play this game any more though... I guess Zinoto would be the best Diddy that's actually active atm?

Player-1 though

 

[Dekillsage]

Diddy Kong is top tier.
If you don't know why you need to go on youtube and look at adhd/gnes play and be like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B_UNeMeFn8

 

[Shaya]

Diddy needs a renaissance in thinking and understanding of the game, similar to Marth/ZSS.
All his tools are ****ing beyond bonkers. Just everyone's honestly bad at him. The initial hurdles of "bad item players" giving Diddy's their free wins has past, but you've still got a character with some of the single best moves in the game and an implied safety/camp barrier that has room for improvement. Right now, Toon Link players are significantly better with item play than the Diddy Kong players are. I feel a Diddy meta which focuses on their safety to camp for power shields (I feel Diddy, along with Marth, ZSS, Falco are the only high/tops truly capable of nearly always successfully abusing a power shield + the tools to avoid commitment until they get one) will be a major menace to the universe. Diddy's figuring out smarter/safer ways for resetting to neutral would help them out too (none of them are abusing M2K's dash dance roll techs yet).

I know there's significantly more to a character, and significantly more to a character's options that I fear "always expect the forward air" (always expecting the fair also sets you up for at least being semi-able to handle side-b too) to stop giving me too much freedom against relatively good diddys at some point. Then I'll be ****ed.

 

[Xyro77]

The highest level of diddy play is easily Gnes/ADHD then there is a decently sized gap. Gnes probably has the best item play (diddy wise) ive ever seen. He trained with Jerm (TL) and UltimateRazer (snake) for 3-4 years. ALL 3 chars use items, it was sickening to see the stuff he did.

I guess it doesnt matter now. Razer/Jerm quit and gnes just goes whoever he wants the few times he plays (which is mega rare).

 

[Shouxiao]

This tier is very accurate.

 

[Tesh]

ADHD and Gnes are alot smarter than Zinoto and P1, but the latter are more up to speed with the new tricks and locks I think.

Its not a huge leap to consider what if a really smart Diddy was really technical and knowledgeable. Diddy clearly has more potential than what we have seen.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Player-1 is better then every . This should be obvious by now.

 

[FourStar]

going back to pikachu, yeah he has weird MU's against high tier characters but overall he has very good MU's and trust me the reason why pika is so overlooked is due to the fact like he's seen as a spam character. but good players don't do that. i mean that's from my point of view but obviously there's more. i just dont wanna get too in to it

 

[DeLux]

Why is Pikachu seen as a "spam character"?

What is a "spam character"?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

someone who presses down on the c-stick a lot and presses b for most of the match

aka bad pikachu players

 

[Shaya]

A spam character is one as such that can get away with just "moves" to win rather than coupling them with 'movements'.
Basically double down smash from MK, anyone?

Spammy characters don't work, and play styles that involve spam (the way I consider it) aren't viable against good players either.
The only exception is spot dodge.
THE ONLY ****ING EXCEPTION IN THIS GAME IS SPOT DODGE.

 

[| Big D |]

gosh darn it

 

[DeLux]

someone who presses down on the c-stick a lot and presses b for most of the match

aka bad pikachu players

So the reason people think Pikachu is good because of bad Pikachus?

A spam character is one as such that can get away with just "moves" to win rather than coupling them with 'movements'.
Basically double down smash from MK, anyone?

Spammy characters don't work, and play styles that involve spam (the way I consider it) aren't viable against good players either.
The only exception is spot dodge.
THE ONLY ****ING EXCEPTION IN THIS GAME IS SPOT DODGE.

I use moves to win...
Apparently, I'm a spammer
Therefore I'm a bad Pikachu

 

[FourStar]

you know this is how i see brawl's pika. if more people used pikachu overlooking all the hype on meta knight I GUARANTEE that most people would like the way he plays and he would have better tourney results. how ever you got like 50% of brawl player playing MK so its kind of hard for characters with so much potential like ZSS, Pika, and Falco to show their full power. also i think with the right players and representation they would be S or A+ tier

 

[Shaya]

Oh so you just grab people with ice climbers?
You sure you don't dash THEN grab instead?

 

[Sunnysunny]

Any character would rise if they got the kinda representation MK has.

Unless the character that's above them is MK of course.

 

[DeLux]

you know this is how i see brawl's pika. if more people used pikachu overlooking all the hype on meta knight I GUARANTEE that most people would like the way he plays and he would have better tourney results. how ever you got like 50% of brawl player playing MK so its kind of hard for characters with so much potential like ZSS, Pika, and Falco to show their full power. also i think with the right players and representation they would be S or A+ tier

Any character would rise if they got the kinda representation MK has.

Unless the character that's above them is MK of course.

Rational decisions making theory seems to say no
But that's just my guess

Oh so you just grab people with ice climbers?
You sure you don't dash THEN grab instead?

I try to do everything tripless, so that's correct

 

[| Big D |]

I already told you why Pikachu is broken

dthrow

to

fsmash

 

[DeLux]

Can you spam that though?

 

[| Big D |]

Ya dude I swear it's like guaranteed.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Since Delux has been a relatively active participant lately let us see if he can continue to be one.

You agree ICs are a bad character?

 

[DeLux]

What's the rulesset?

I talked extensively about this in my BBR Interview

 

[Minwu]

Luigi blows chunks. With the new and improved Poltergust 5000 *flashes grin*

 

[Demna]

Why is Pikachu seen as a "spam character"?

What is a "spam character"?

A "spam character" is a term used as an excuse by a player who just lost to relieve his frustration.

 

[Luco]

Can you spam that though?

WILL IT SPAM?

Anyway, I personally think Pikachu is okay where he is for now but seriously could use some results to back him up. I like him all the way up there and don't want to see him go but I see our tier list becoming more like the japanese tier list and ESAM not doing quite as well and I start to welp and hope Pikachu can pull out something to show us he's worthy of what he has.

But I don't know that much about Pikachu really so take my view with a grain of salt.

 

[xDD-Master]

Diddy's figuring out smarter/safer ways for resetting to neutral would help them out too (none of them are abusing M2K's dash dance roll techs yet).

M2K's dash dance roll techs???

I agree with the rest of your post, Diddy is great, and Diddy players (Top players) have to step it up!

 

[FourStar]

hopefully i can start doing good with pikachu in tourneys...

 

[pidgezero_one]

Did someone say spam?

 

[BSP]

Diddy stuff.

We also have to remember the fact that he has infinites/zero-deaths/whatever the banana locks are.

 

[Shaya]

I'd rather players work on their fundamentals than their gimmicks.

M2K dash dance roll techs ->
Dash in one direction, during the initial frames of your dash roll in the other direction.
Very hard to react to as the animations suddenly go hay wire.

For MK, who will generally always be using his froll, he'll double DD if he needs to. One of the things that help you out against MKs is paying attention to the DD, because there's a good chance you'll catch the roll.

 

[Espy Rose]

I don't. Flashy is fun.

 

[Shaya]

That's what dash dance roll techs are for.
It's like Zero and M2K are really wave dashing!

 

[Z'zgashi]

Or you play a character with a crawl and Dash > backwards crawl > dash again. Or play Yoshi and DR cuz it effectively IS wavedashing

 

[Shaya]

Shhh. don't give people reason to play characters with crawls.
They're all over powered.