Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[Amazing Ampharos]

Do you have a Shulk thread for customs or are you just leaving that for the thread by Berserker01? I checked your threadlist and couldn't find a Shulk thread, but I could easily have missed it.

Numbers has mostly been managing the bottom half of the alphabet of characters while I've been focused on the top half. However, let me look into it...

Yeah, use that thread.

 

[Splash Damage]

Numbers has mostly been managing the bottom half of the alphabet of characters while I've been focused on the top half. However, let me look into it...

Yeah, use that thread.

I'm assuming by "that thread" you mean Numbers'? Do you have a link to it please?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm assuming by "that thread" you mean Numbers'? Do you have a link to it please?

I mean the thread you referred to and are already using.

 

[Splash Damage]

I mean the thread you referred to and are already using.

Ah, okay, thanks.

 

[DunnoBro]

In truth we're just ending public discussion on the 17th and may take a few days to work things over internally. That being said @ DunnoBro if you need a preliminary list for a tournament I can probably PM you an unofficial work in progress this weekend since it seems likely that most boards are about where they're going to be.

That'd be great, if possible I'd like to avoid non-finalized characters and just put in those obviously finished and very different than earlier sets with their 10-sets. (to cut down on upload time. We'll be cutting it close as is)

High Demand Chars that seem radically different from earlier sets:

Mega-man
Zelda
Duck Hunt
Luigi
Mario
Dr. Mario
Wii Fit Trainer
Sonic

If I could just get the set for these or similar situation characters, that'd be more than adequate.

 

[thehard]

The creator doesn't have a SB account so I'm posting this here http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2yz5vh/project_cm_custom_moves_info_at_your_fingertips/

 

[John12346]

The creator doesn't have a SB account so I'm posting this here http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2yz5vh/project_cm_custom_moves_info_at_your_fingertips/

It's probably worth it to make a new thread out of this... probably...

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ Amazing Ampharos This post has been sitting in the back of my mind for a little while now. As I am using custom moves for Sandstorm, a national tournament, I'm doing extensive research on them myself and specifically how the player base wants to use them.

There is one thing I think the new "season" of the custom moveset project ABSOLUTELY must have. Custom moves are new and many players don't want to deviate from the default moveset outside of a special or two. In light of that, I believe that every character should have 3-4 dedicated slots where only one special is changed. I've had people demand for Luigi that only has iceball, or Bowser that only has the fireball. Many players, especially conservative ones, can't handle (or don't want to handle) so much change at once. EVENTUALLY they may be able to tolerate full custom sets that are different... but for now they need these minimally changed sets to get their feet in the door.

Additionally, I'll be making a few sets that the best players (like ZeRo who just moved here recently) want to have but are not yet available in the custom move project. I'm looking for sources outside of Smashboards because I trust that you have SWF on lock, AA. Hopefully we can touch base with our research before the new season is published, because your sets are also going to be used at Evo as well so we have to make this work right.

 

[Firefoxx]

Tailoring sets to top players might not be the most fair way to do things. But my guess is if ZeRo, for example, has some special Fox loadout that no one else is using, a lot of people will want to use it.

 

[Splash Damage]

@ Amazing Ampharos This post has been sitting in the back of my mind for a little while now. As I am using custom moves for Sandstorm, a national tournament, I'm doing extensive research on them myself and specifically how the player base wants to use them.

There is one thing I think the new "season" of the custom moveset project ABSOLUTELY must have. Custom moves are new and many players don't want to deviate from the default moveset outside of a special or two. In light of that, I believe that every character should have 3-4 dedicated slots where only one special is changed. I've had people demand for Luigi that only has iceball, or Bowser that only has the fireball. Many players, especially conservative ones, can't handle (or don't want to handle) so much change at once. EVENTUALLY they may be able to tolerate full custom sets that are different... but for now they need these minimally changed sets to get their feet in the door.

Additionally, I'll be making a few sets that the best players (like ZeRo who just moved here recently) want to have but are not yet available in the custom move project. I'm looking for sources outside of Smashboards because I trust that you have SWF on lock, AA. Hopefully we can touch base with our research before the new season is published, because your sets are also going to be used at Evo as well so we have to make this work right.

A handful of boards actually have decided on some simpler sets that tailer to just 1 custom, for example the Shulk board I frequent has three loadouts exclusively for the monado arts. However, since sets like these are much less than optimal in the long run, unless the users decide that they are needed and useful enough to warrant their presence, at least I believe they should not be added. Of course, you are attending(Or TO'ing? I couldn't get some of your message) a national and you and your friends entering, so if the entered players in your tournament want just one custom on their set, you could either allow imports or make a custom list of you own according to the reqs of the players.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Tailoring sets to top players might not be the most fair way to do things.

Makes more sense than tailoring sets to players who are too lazy to learn more than 1 custom, though.

 

[Raijinken]

Tailoring sets to top players might not be the most fair way to do things. But my guess is if ZeRo, for example, has some special Fox loadout that no one else is using, a lot of people will want to use it.

Then he, like all other players, should participate in the discussion.

@ Amazing Ampharos This post has been sitting in the back of my mind for a little while now. As I am using custom moves for Sandstorm, a national tournament, I'm doing extensive research on them myself and specifically how the player base wants to use them.

There is one thing I think the new "season" of the custom moveset project ABSOLUTELY must have. Custom moves are new and many players don't want to deviate from the default moveset outside of a special or two. In light of that, I believe that every character should have 3-4 dedicated slots where only one special is changed. I've had people demand for Luigi that only has iceball, or Bowser that only has the fireball. Many players, especially conservative ones, can't handle (or don't want to handle) so much change at once. EVENTUALLY they may be able to tolerate full custom sets that are different... but for now they need these minimally changed sets to get their feet in the door.

Additionally, I'll be making a few sets that the best players (like ZeRo who just moved here recently) want to have but are not yet available in the custom move project. I'm looking for sources outside of Smashboards because I trust that you have SWF on lock, AA. Hopefully we can touch base with our research before the new season is published, because your sets are also going to be used at Evo as well so we have to make this work right.

I agree with that idea, but I feel like it should be the same process as everything else. I'm similar for a lot of characters (including Iceball Luigi), but it really wouldn't be fair to just give the pros what they want without them debating for it, would it?

Makes more sense than tailoring sets to players who are too lazy to learn more than 1 custom, though.

It's not always a matter of only wanting to learn one. I've chugged through a ton of customs (read: all of them, over two systems), and there are several characters I'd only run one move on. Luigi, Bowser, Falco, Pikachu, Ness, Captain Falcon, Greninja, and in many scenarios, Megaman and Shulk, just to name some of them. But regardless of what the character is best with, it's simply proper that if these pros want a slot with a single move of their choice, they should throw their reputational weight around in the debates and get it there like the rest of us try to.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

It's not always a matter of only wanting to learn one.

But that was a reason put forth by Panda.

But to be honest, if it wasn't for EVO, I'd be more receptive to the idea of conservative sets. Serious competitors are going to want optimal sets for the biggest tournament of the year, though, and those sets have to be finished in less than 2 weeks. Our hands are forced imo.

 

[Raijinken]

But that was a reason put forth by Panda.

But to be honest, if it wasn't for EVO, I'd be more receptive to the idea of conservative sets. Serious competitors are going to want optimal sets for the biggest tournament of the year, though, and those sets have to be finished in less than 2 weeks. Our hands are forced imo.

I mean, in any sort of evolving meta, the idea of "optimal" is bound to change. So if we just run with what's optimal for now, that's as good as we can be expected to have. It's not like we delay tournaments because we don't know who's top tier, y'know?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

How useful would unlocking all custom moves using Spider 3DS Tools exploit be? For those who are unaware, Spider 3DS Tools is how people are injecting new Pokemon into X/Y/ORAS's RAM to use. I could spend some time dumping Smash Bros. for 3DS's RAM and finding the actual custom move data so all custom moves could be unlocked by scanning a QR Code instead of having to use Powersaves or something like that. This would only work on 3DS/3DS XL (no New 3DS/New 3DS XL) on any 9.x ~ 9.5.0.22 firmwares, and could only be used on devices that use SysNAND (the default 3DS NAND).

Basically, for those who don't understand, all custom moves could be unlocked by scanning a QR Code on any 3DS/3DS XL that's running 9.x to 9.5.0.22.

I'm just wanting to know how useful this'd be to decide whether or not I should invest time in it. The main thing that's stopping me from doing it is that it only works up to 9.5.0.22, while the 3DS firmware is currently on 9.5.0.23 to patch it out.

edit: lol, nevermind. i just remembered you can't open the browser while smash 3ds is running, so you can't inject anything. i'll try to find a workaround but idk

 

[Splash Damage]

I mean, in any sort of evolving meta, the idea of "optimal" is bound to change. So if we just run with what's optimal for now, that's as good as we can be expected to have. It's not like we delay tournaments because we don't know who's top tier, y'know?

I suppose that 1-custom sets may work now, but what about in the future? We have four months until Evo, and there's almost no way that people are gonna stick with a one-custom set that whole time, unless that set is optimal, like one of Megaman's sets. People are gonna branch out and test, notice they like things, but they'll end up stuck with the one-custom sets.
What I'm saying is, we need to focus on what will be the best in the long run for these custom sets present at Evo, not what works now. I suppose I could be wrong, but I'm sure the frequenters of the customs boards will agree to some extent.

 

[Raijinken]

I suppose that 1-custom sets may work now, but what about in the future? We have four months until Evo, and there's almost no way that people are gonna stick with a one-custom set that whole time, unless that set is optimal, like one of Megaman's sets. People are gonna branch out and test, notice they like things, but they'll end up stuck with the one-custom sets.
What I'm saying is, we need to focus on what will be the best in the long run for these custom sets present at Evo, not what works now. I suppose I could be wrong, but I'm sure the frequenters of the customs boards will agree to some extent.

I mean, we've got ten slots, and the number of characters who want just one is very minimal. In the long run, if something's actually optimal, it'll catch on. In the meantime, people should debate for what they want to get representation. Personally, I don't mind much if most of the loadout is terrible if the one I really want is on it. I'll adapt and learn, or just run Default.

 

[Splash Damage]

I mean, we've got ten slots, and the number of characters who want just one is very minimal. In the long run, if something's actually optimal, it'll catch on. In the meantime, people should debate for what they want to get representation. Personally, I don't mind much if most of the loadout is terrible if the one I really want is on it. I'll adapt and learn, or just run Default.

True, adapt or get left behind, but if there's any chance to make a character the most optimal we can then we should jump at it as soon as possible, and now is that time we have. Making the most optimal sets has been the top priority for the past month, and I'd say we've done what we need.

 

[hey_there]

Luigi iceball

The new updated custom sets for Luigi actually has that set. This is what I've proposed in the Luigi boards and no one's posted any disagreement yet, so I assume it accommodates most Luigi players, including the ones that just want Iceball. Have a look:

Luigi

1211
1311
3111 <-
3211
3311
1312
3312
3231
3212
2311

 

[SAINAR]

one thing that shouldn't be enforced by this is that players that want to use sets not supported by the project shouldn't bring their own 3DSs as... they might not even have one. there should be one 3Ds at the venue with everything unlocked just in case these situations pop up.

It shouldn't even be that, the Wii Us should have all the moves unlocked have already created the sets in the correct order

 

[Raijinken]

It shouldn't even be that, the Wii Us should have all the moves unlocked have already created the sets in the correct order

It's for smaller events that allow individuals to bring their own movesets. Unfortunately, most people who compete (or provide setups) in these events aren't unlock completionists, and thus have few, if any, unlocked customs on the consoles. And in many cases, they don't have the 3DS version, either, even if they have a 3DS.

 

[Ansou]

I don't get how people don't seem to realize that they can just join the discussion here on SWF if they want the list of sets to change... O.o

 

[SAINAR]

It's for smaller events that allow individuals to bring their own movesets. Unfortunately, most people who compete (or provide setups) in these events aren't unlock completionists, and thus have few, if any, unlocked customs on the consoles. And in many cases, they don't have the 3DS version, either, even if they have a 3DS.

true

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

I don't get how people don't seem to realize that they can just join the discussion here on SWF if they want the list of sets to change... O.o

I see this SWF posted fairly often, how do I join/find it? I don't even know what it stands for.

 

[Firefoxx]

I see this SWF posted fairly often, how do I join/find it? I don't even know what it stands for.

You're looking at it. SWF is Smash World Forum, which is just Smashboards now but people still use the SWF shorthand

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

Oh alright. I was thinking it meant Smash Wiki Forums or something similar. Thank you!

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

@ Amazing Ampharos This post has been sitting in the back of my mind for a little while now. As I am using custom moves for Sandstorm, a national tournament, I'm doing extensive research on them myself and specifically how the player base wants to use them.

There is one thing I think the new "season" of the custom moveset project ABSOLUTELY must have. Custom moves are new and many players don't want to deviate from the default moveset outside of a special or two. In light of that, I believe that every character should have 3-4 dedicated slots where only one special is changed. I've had people demand for Luigi that only has iceball, or Bowser that only has the fireball. Many players, especially conservative ones, can't handle (or don't want to handle) so much change at once. EVENTUALLY they may be able to tolerate full custom sets that are different... but for now they need these minimally changed sets to get their feet in the door.

Additionally, I'll be making a few sets that the best players (like ZeRo who just moved here recently) want to have but are not yet available in the custom move project. I'm looking for sources outside of Smashboards because I trust that you have SWF on lock, AA. Hopefully we can touch base with our research before the new season is published, because your sets are also going to be used at Evo as well so we have to make this work right.

It's pretty common in general for sets with three 1s to be worth including regardless (the Bowsers do generally agree that Fire Shot is actually a really bad move though; the one Bowser move really worth replacing is side special). My experience is that many less explorative players in their first custom tournament will just pick default regardless of optimum options (like picking default Pikachu even though 1311 is nearly a strict upgrade), but once they decide to explore they tend to explore everything at once. We didn't pursue it, but for a lot of characters, 3-4 options being all defaults with one strong custom happened on its own. A lot of it is tailored to the needs of individual characters though; in cases where characters have either a custom move that is a very straightforward improvement over default (like Little Mac neutral-2 or Link side-2) or a very bad special move that can be at least trivially upgraded (like Jigglypuff Sing or King Dedede Jet Hammer), you'll see all of the slots using that improvement since realistically any main of that character who doesn't want that is probably going to pick "default" anyway. A few characters have additional complicating circumstances as well that make this not happen for them, but that gets really case by case. When I publish, I intend to publish a "why" of why all of the sets are the way they are; hopefully that will make things clear for the cases where a character isn't that way, but most characters should track pretty close.

As per the second issue, yeah, it would definitely be a big help if you did that. I know west coast in particular tends to be poorly represented here on Smashboards, and often top players shy away for one reason or another. We do have time constraints though; EVO sets are "due" in 12 days and it's not really a deadline it would be wise for us to cut close (it comes from Mr. Wizard; it's when he sends the EVO set-ups with instructions to the people who will prepare them). We're actually going to be compiling and finalizing this week; public discussion is scheduled to wrap up Tuesday (as in "posts in the individual character topics made after Tuesday have no guarantee of being read") while on the internal side I was hoping to be able to publish next weekend. I can stretch a few days for you if you need it to talk to people, but given the proximity of our hard deadline, we don't have a ton of wiggle room. In other words, yeah, that would be great and I very strongly want to include the sets that all of the best players would want to pick, but I hope we can get those sets fairly quickly since we're time limited at this point.

If you need to know anything in particular from my end, let me know. I'm going to be putting together a rough draft today for @ DunnoBro and the Xanadu weekly; it will be imperfect, but I can forward you a copy if you want to see a vague sense of how things are looking on this end right now.

 

[DunnoBro]

Finalized sets for Duck Hunt:

3121
3122
3123
1121
1122
1123
1221
1223
1133
1131

Trimmed zigzag sets down to appeal more to traditional DHD players. I seem to be the only DHD main that really likes zigzag (though many players at Xanadu, including Boss fear zigzag is broken, especially in doubles)

Also found default clay shot is best... While the area break and rising cover is vast, they're not very good areas and have low priority/reliability.

The original reasoning for break was that it's a better anti-air... But zigzag is a far superior anti-air and the only times break becomes usable is when zigzag isn't available.

 

[Splash Damage]

If you need to know anything in particular from my end, let me know. I'm going to be putting together a rough draft today for @ DunnoBro and the Xanadu weekly; it will be imperfect, but I can forward you a copy if you want to see a vague sense of how things are looking on this end right now.

Here's the current Shulk list:
Critical sets
1113
3113
2113

Preferential sets
1123
3213
3123

Niche
1122
3122

Optional
1213
2123

 

[Pyr]

How useful would unlocking all custom moves using Spider 3DS Tools exploit be? For those who are unaware, Spider 3DS Tools is how people are injecting new Pokemon into X/Y/ORAS's RAM to use. I could spend some time dumping Smash Bros. for 3DS's RAM and finding the actual custom move data so all custom moves could be unlocked by scanning a QR Code instead of having to use Powersaves or something like that. This would only work on 3DS/3DS XL (no New 3DS/New 3DS XL) on any 9.x ~ 9.5.0.22 firmwares, and could only be used on devices that use SysNAND (the default 3DS NAND).

Basically, for those who don't understand, all custom moves could be unlocked by scanning a QR Code on any 3DS/3DS XL that's running 9.x to 9.5.0.22.

I'm just wanting to know how useful this'd be to decide whether or not I should invest time in it. The main thing that's stopping me from doing it is that it only works up to 9.5.0.22, while the 3DS firmware is currently on 9.5.0.23 to patch it out.

edit: lol, nevermind. i just remembered you can't open the browser while smash 3ds is running, so you can't inject anything. i'll try to find a workaround but idk

As no one responded to this... Isn't there an Action Replay for 3DS that has a power save with all customs unlocked? Or are you trying to find a non-ARP way of doing it?

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Mario

1212
1213
1312
1313
1332
2212
2213
2232
2312
2332

Final sets for Mario, with credit going to @SolidSense for the list.

 

[Goesasu]

Here's the current Shulk list:
Critical sets
1113
3113
2113

Preferential sets
1123
3213
3123

Niche
1122
3122

Optional
2133
1213

Its not my right to do so but just to point out that the first optional set should be 2123 instead of 2133.
Source:

http://smashboards.com/threads/shul...-discussing-10-custom-sets-1-day-left.391483/

So the final list is this:

Critical sets
1113
2113
3113

Preferential sets
1123
3123
3213

Niche
1122
3122

Optional
1213
2123

@ Berserker. just in case.

 

[Berserker.]

So the final list is this:

Critical sets
1113
2113
3113

Preferential sets
1123
3123
3213

Niche
1122
3122

Optional
1213
2123

@ Berserker. just in case.

Yes. This is the final list (Just for the sake of double confirming)

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario

1212
1213
1312
1313
1332
2212
2213
2232
2312
2332

Final sets for Mario, with credit going to @SolidSense for the list.

Confirming that this is indeed our final list.

 

[betaclay]

Is there a complete list of the sets yet? I was just gonna input the ones in the OP into my game, but I assume they have changed since?

 

[Raijinken]

Is there a complete list of the sets yet? I was just gonna input the ones in the OP into my game, but I assume they have changed since?

Those are fine unless you specifically want the EVO list, which is still under construction.

 

[Deleted member]

Hello everyone.

For the past month or so, @SmashCapps, @newbzoors and myself have been working on an encyclopedia for the Custom Move Project that would be printable for TO's to bring to venues. The encyclopedia would have every move's effect and how they are different to their original move, as well as more info about customs to add later. We have been working on a comprehensive version as well as a "printer-friendly" version, if anybody wanted a hard copy to keep for themselves or to place next to their set-ups at tourneys.

However, I face a couple dilemmas and was wondering if anybody would be interested in helping out.

• Typing up descriptions of every move: To avoid plagiarism, newbzoors and I watch footage and test customs ourselves, so we can properly describe each move without copying straight from wikis or others. Although it is a ton of typing (between the two of us, we have only done 21 out of the 52 playable character), so if anyone could help us typing, we could be finished much more quickly.
• Extra Info: We had originally planned to talk about the top 3 loadouts of each character with members of the community, so they could provide a small background on "what makes this build tick/what kind of MU's do they cover". However, with the loadouts changing so fast, keeping them up to date could be a struggle. I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on what else you'd like to see in this compendium of information. Perhaps feedback on what makes each move valuable (if they need an explanation, like for DK's "Hot Slap")? Rankings of each move? I'm curious as to what kind of info people would like to see. Any feedback would be awesome!

We are currently working of having the explanations done by the beginning of April, to give people the chance to print it out before EVO, though with a couple more helpers, I feel we could be finished much sooner. Any help would be very much appreciated! If you'd like to help, feel free to respond to this or send me a PM, and I'll get you all hooked up with Skype info and where we are working on it!

Some other people and I have actually been qorking on typing up descriptions for TL's customs anyway, so we could try to hurry up and get those done for that if you want.

 

[WispBae]

Some other people and I have actually been qorking on typing up descriptions for TL's customs anyway, so we could try to hurry up and get those done for that if you want.

I think TL is done already, but of ya'd still like to help on the other miscellaneous characters too, any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure we'll be told how wrong we are at describing them and their details and how we fail at life, but that will help improve updated versions.

 

[Splash Damage]

So the final list is this:

Critical sets
1113
2113
3113

Preferential sets
1123
3123
3213

Niche
1122
3122

Optional
1213
2123

@ Berserker. just in case.

Unanimously agreed, this is the final Shulk list. I'm glad we were able to manage this before the deadline, I honestly didn't think we were gonna make it.

Also:What we mean by "Optional" is that the ones listed in this category have the lowest priority in import-allowing events.

 

[Splash Damage]

Is there a complete list of the sets yet? I was just gonna input the ones in the OP into my game, but I assume they have changed since?

The new big group of lists will be compiled likely within the day, so I'd wait it out.