Official Rayman Facebook and Twitter page post different Rayman Trophy Model, so I have 2 questions

[Vintage Creep]

My guess, they just fixed is drunk look.
This whole ordeal is very interesting anyway, I seriously hope he's playable.

 

[Dillo64]

The one Sakurai posted is the Wii U version of the trophy.

The one Ubisoft posted is the 3DS version of the trophy and thus a lower res/different model.

Just my theory.

 

[8-peacock-8]

The one Sakurai posted is the Wii U version of the trophy.

The one Ubisoft posted is the 3DS version of the trophy and thus a lower res/different model.

Just my theory.

The image is blurry/lower resolution because facebook has a tendency to change images to jpgs.

 

[Xigger]

>Implying Sakurai has a normal, standard attitude with anything.

If it was just the one trophy, I wouldn't be too suspicious, but two? That's where things are fishy. Plus, if you need an answer - maybe he's just trying to play with us.

Sakurai made the first minute of Rosalina's trailer a red herring for two entirely different things, made us think ZSS was cut only to say otherwise three seconds later, randomly gave Sonic his own isolated trailer despite being a veteran, revealed Charizard as part of a newcomer's trailer, made people briefly think Greninja was Mewtwo, revealed the most recognisable video game character as a playable character in an unusually discrete way, randomly revealed three characters on Monday and blew the Gematsu leak to smithereens in the process.

Sakurai has been going against, and surpassing expectations left, right, and center. Rayman being a trophy at all did that. What is stopping him from breaking yet another "pattern" by revealing him as a trophy, fooling us into thinking he is not playable, only to later confirm him playable?

Again, if he will OUTRIGHT SAY a character is not playable, and then say otherwise three seconds later, he can certainly reveal Rayman as a trophy, and reveal him as a fighter later on.

Implying Sakurai has a normal, standard attitude with anything.
He does. He is very respectful of the fan's character wishes, and loves to tease. There's a very fine line where his teasing does and doesn't go. As I will explain.

If it was just the one trophy, I wouldn't be too suspicious, but two? That's where things are fishy. Plus, if you need an answer - maybe he's just trying to play with us.
They're not two trophies, they're two similar poses of the same trophy. Anything else is unknown.

Sakurai made the first minute of Rosalina's trailer a red herring for two entirely different things, made us think ZSS was cut only to say otherwise three seconds later, randomly gave Sonic his own isolated trailer despite being a veteran, revealed Charizard as part of a newcomer's trailer, made people briefly think Greninja was Mewtwo, revealed the most recognisable video game character as a playable character in an unusually discrete way, randomly revealed three characters on Monday and blew the Gematsu leak to smithereens in the process.
The difference between Sakurai teasing fans momentarily during an ongoing reveal video is much different than showing a single image. Rosalina's reveal was misleading, therefore a surprise. Zero Suit Samus was kiddingly dismissed, then immediately revealed. Greninja gave fans a silhouette and a fight, as did Fire Emblem. It's a clear pattern.
For most screenshots, characters are shown without second thought. For assist trophies, Sakurai repeatedly reminds fans that they are not playable. When Sakurai leaves a cliffhanger in a screenshot, such as "An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any moment", he doesn't show the character or even call Ridley by name. An element of mystery. This, is clearly Rayman. There is no sense of a cliffhanger whatsoever. It is out of the abnormal pattern for teasing characters, instead in the category of "shown without second thought."

Sakurai has been going against, and surpassing expectations left, right, and center. Rayman being a trophy at all did that. What is stopping him from breaking yet another "pattern" by revealing him as a trophy, fooling us into thinking he is not playable, only to later confirm him playable?
Sakurai has been taking the game in a new direction, but there is no indication that Sakurai's style of posts and revealing information has changed: When Sakurai teases, it is not subtle. He makes sure you don't miss it. If you don't understand this concept, then you can only deny the evidence.

Again, if he will OUTRIGHT SAY a character is not playable, and then say otherwise three seconds later, he can certainly reveal Rayman as a trophy, and reveal him as a fighter later on.

To be blunt, here's a comparison:

Pros for Rayman:

• Why would unplayable Rayman be a trophy in Smash? Because Smash is (increasingly) a celebration of video game history, and Rayman is a notable part of that.

One reason, explanatory, and it's justified that it fits with the new direction the game has already taken. It's unprecedented, but this new action doesn't contradict anything. There was never a rule against it: it simply hadn't happened yet.

Cons for Rayman:

• Why would Sakurai show a playable character as a trophy before a reveal?
• Why would Sakurai show playable Rayman at all and not label him as a newcomer?
• Why would Sakurai act differently for this one newcomer, when he has acted normally for others?

The justification for this is to "mislead us and trick us." This is just short of a common conspiracy theory logical fallacy called Appeal to Rebellion. Rayman's trophy isn't a lie, but it's deceiving.
If you compare the pros and cons, and give each a fair chance, the base odds are 3:1 that Rayman is simply a trophy. But if you think about the reasons, the one reason Rayman isn't playable is believable, while the other three reasons supporting Rayman is grasping at straws, bending the rules in an attempt to avoid accepting that he probably isn't playable.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Implying Sakurai has a normal, standard attitude with anything.
He does. He is very respectful of the fan's character wishes, and loves to tease. There's a very fine line where his teasing does and doesn't go. As I will explain.

They're not two trophies, they're two similar poses of the same trophy. Anything else is unknown.

The difference between Sakurai teasing fans momentarily during an ongoing reveal video is much different than showing a single image. Rosalina's reveal was misleading, therefore a surprise. Zero Suit Samus was kiddingly dismissed, then immediately revealed. Greninja gave fans a silhouette and a fight, as did Fire Emblem. It's a clear pattern.
For most screenshots, characters are shown without second thought. For assist trophies, Sakurai repeatedly reminds fans that they are not playable. When Sakurai leaves a cliffhanger in a screenshot, such as "An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any moment", he doesn't show the character or even call Ridley by name. An element of mystery. This, is clearly Rayman. There is no sense of a cliffhanger whatsoever. It is out of the abnormal pattern for teasing characters, instead in the category of "shown without second thought."

Sakurai has been taking the game in a new direction, but there is no indication that Sakurai's style of posts and revealing information has changed: When Sakurai teases, it is not subtle. He makes sure you don't miss it. If you don't understand this concept, then you can only deny the evidence.

Let me guess, Ridley is a stage boss?

 

[mikanbouya]

to me it just looks like its being viewed at a slightly different angle ?

 

[Xigger]

Let me guess, Ridley is a stage boss?

A tad unrelated, but we don't really know what Ridley is. I'd say Sakurai is teasing him more than any other character, but I don't have a conclusion from that.

 

[JamesDNaux]

A tad unrelated, but we don't really know what Ridley is. I'd say Sakurai is teasing him more than any other character, but I don't have a conclusion from that.

If he can tease one character, why can he not tease another? I doubt there would be a single special case.

 

[Sparklepower]

His eyes look more open in the second and the first looks mid-blink. Maybe some trophies are animated this time around? Wouldn't be the first animated trophy, and some like the assist trophies already have animations tagged on to them.

This honestly seems like the most likely situation, it would explain a lot. If they were doing classic and smash trophies again, Rayman would probably look a lot more akin to what he did in the original Rayman, and the idea that Sakurai edited the Rayman model to look like that seems really far-fetched. If it were animated, they both probably would have screen-capped the model at different points, so of course there would be subtle differences.

 

[JamesDNaux]

An animated Rayman trophy would either be a slap in the face, because they should have made him playable if they bothered to animate him, or it would be extra proof towards the fact that he's possibly planned DLC.

I'm leaning towards the latter. Though I don't believe the trophy is animated, that's ridiculous.

 

[Oldstalk]

Since Sakurai said that Ubisoft made this model, everything here is reaaaaaaally weird.
I deeply hope he's a playable character, come on Sakurai, he's made for this game <3

Edit : come on, animated trophy oO ?
Do you know how much work it would means ? And I highly doubt they would animate only one trophy.

 

[ChikoLad]

Oh dear god that is the most unbearably pointless argument I've read in a while.

I'll just address this one line:

• Why would Sakurai act differently for this one newcomer, when he has acted normally for others?

Again, what is normal? He has revealed many of the newcomers in unique way. Four in particular had unique reveal methods:

-Rosalina was revealed without the fiery Smash logo (it's in the trailer on the website, but it wasn't in the actual Nintendo Direct video), meaning we didn't even know it was Smash related for the first minute of it (it was designed to make you believe it was a Kirby game related, and then when Rainbow Road and the Mario Kart characters show up, it leads you to believe Kirby would be playable in Mario Kart 8), contrary to every other reveal. In fact, it is also the only trailer to have music from a different series to the one of the newcomer being revealed (Kirby Air Ride music in a trailer revealing a Mario franchise newcomer). That's not normal.

-Pac-Man was revealed via liveblogging, and is the only newcomer to be revealed in such a way.

-Lucina and Robin are the only newcomers to be revealed in a trailer independent of a bigger event (Nintendo Direct and E3). It was just randomly announced and streamed on the site.

Rayman being teased as a trophy, and later revealed to be a newcomer, would be just another method to add to the list.

This honestly seems like the most likely situation, it would explain a lot. If they were doing classic and smash trophies again, Rayman would probably look a lot more akin to what he did in the original Rayman, and the idea that Sakurai edited the Rayman model to look like that seems really far-fetched. If it were animated, they both probably would have screen-capped the model at different points, so of course there would be subtle differences.

The model looks completely different. The pose is the same, but the overall model is stylised differently. The second one looks more akin to the Rayman Legends art style, while the one Sakurai posted looks more like Rayman looks in most 3D/CGI appearances, despite having the Rayman Legends style hoodie.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Dillo64 The second picture isn't a 3DS picture. It's more of a modified version of the Miiverse pic. Maybe we haven't seen a 3DS version of the trophy yet.

 

[DonkaFjord]

An animated Rayman trophy would either be a slap in the face, because they should have made him playable if they bothered to animate him, or it would be extra proof towards the fact that he's possibly planned DLC.

I'm leaning towards the latter. Though I don't believe the trophy is animated, that's ridiculous.

Animating a trophy and putting in a playable character are totally not comparable in the amount of work it takes. Also, if several different trophies are animated then it will seem fine. It could mean DLC or assist, etc. as well like you said.

 

[ChikoLad]

Where has this notion of animated trophies come from? We've heard nothing from Sakurai saying that it would happen or that he was even considering it, none of the trophies in the 3DS trailer were animated, and it contradicts what trophies are supposed to be in Smash.

 

[HugoBoss]

My Theory:Ubisoft loathed the Drunken Rayman. They demanded Sakurai to change it.

 

[ChikoLad]

My Theory:Ubisoft loathed the Drunken Rayman. They demanded Sakurai to change it.

But Ubisoft made the trophy Sakurai posted. I'm pretty sure they'd finalise it before sending it off.

 

[Dillo64]

@ Dillo64 The second picture isn't a 3DS picture. It's more of a modified version of the Miiverse pic. Maybe we haven't seen a 3DS version of the trophy yet.

What I meant was that the 3DS version could be a modified/separate model from the Wii U version that has less polygons or works better with the 3DS system, which is why it looks slightly different.

 

[Deleted member]

What I meant was that the 3DS version could be a modified model from the Wii U version to have less polygons or work better with the 3DS system, which is why it looks slightly different.

Oh, I see. You could be right, I mean, the trophies (one for Wii U and one for 3DS) would contain the same character (Rayman) but in different poses. Looks more like Wii U to me though.

 

[TimeSmash]

Why don't you guys email Sakurai it's not like he's busy or anything.

Spoiler

I actually just think it was an oversight on someone's part

 

[Khao]

Animated trophy was my first thought, I doubt it's actually the case, but it's totally a good explanation.

The Sakurai shot could have been taken mid-blink, and they decided to post it like that 'cause it's amusing, and the Ubisoft page shot's torso might be shorter because of a breathing animation deforming it a little bit.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

LOL, a game where I can fight Ridley as Rayman...

 

[Xigger]

Where has this notion of animated trophies come from? We've heard nothing from Sakurai saying that it would happen or that he was even considering it, none of the trophies in the 3DS trailer were animated, and it contradicts what trophies are supposed to be in Smash.

We did have ONE animated 2D trophy in Brawl, so it's not completely new.

Oh dear god that is the most unbearably pointless argument I've read in a while.

You're being a bit of a douche now. I'll lay down the facts: You're picking apart the trailers different methods for keeping you guessing until it blatantly says "This person joins the battle", and using that as evidence for "cannot predict these trailers, therefore he might show Rayman in a daily picture for a few hours and then not reveal him until later." You are denying points that doesn't support your view; You are grasping at straws.

You made a thread and asked for opinions, so don't be a **** about it.

 

[Sparklepower]

Since Sakurai said that Ubisoft made this model, everything here is reaaaaaaally weird.
I deeply hope he's a playable character, come on Sakurai, he's made for this game <3

Edit : come on, animated trophy oO ?
Do you know how much work it would means ? And I highly doubt they would animate only one trophy.

You are really over-exaggerating the work required for a simple animation of Rayman blinking his eyes and slightly shifting his pose. You could do this in 5-10 minutes in any modern modeling program, I did animations like that in a high school animation class. Also, who says that would be the only animated trophy? There could be plenty of trophies like this.

 

[ChikoLad]

We did have ONE animated 2D trophy in Brawl, so it's not completely new.




You're being a bit of a douche now. I'll lay down the facts: You're picking apart the trailers different methods for keeping you guessing until it blatantly says "This person joins the battle", and using that as evidence for "cannot predict these trailers, therefore he might show Rayman in a daily picture for a few hours and then not reveal him until later." You are denying points that doesn't support your view; You are grasping at straws.

You made a thread and asked for opinions, so don't be a **** about it.

The trophy is outright modelled differently. His head looks stylistically different, and his torso is proportionally different. So animated trophy is not a possibility.

I'm not picking apart the methods for the trailers keeping us guessing. As I pointed out, four of the characters were revealed in very different ways, especially Pac-Man, who wasn't even revealed through a trailer. Your posts are just stubbornly ignoring everything I say and touting logical fallacies and saying I'm forming a conspiracy theory, when there aren't any.

Your point of view entirely revolves around something you have decided to register as an unbreakable pattern, or, to be blunt, an assumption.

"If Sakurai reveals a character as a trophy before revealing them as playable, they can't be playable".

This is not fact, it is you making an assumption. The fact remains that neither Sakurai or Ubisoft have denied him being playable. So him being playable is still entirely possible. If anything, he's one of the more likely characters, since we at least know he is in the game in SOME form. Ridley fans use that same logic to tout him being playable as a possibility despite him being a confirmed boss, which is much more contradictory to a playable role than a trophy appearance (something every fighter has).

 

[Wario Bros.]

The Twitter post sounds like Rayman isn't playable. If the trophy the only contribution from Ubisoft, I find it odd. What's the point of a 3rd party company contributing to Smash (especially a big name company like Ubisost) if you're only doing something small & minor like trophies.

I almost want to say Rayman could end up being playable as post-release DLC, but I'm having severe doubt that'll happen (wouldn't mind him playable though).

If I was a third party company and got the chance to get involved in a Smash game, I'd say put in one of my characters or no deal at all.

 

[King Orfut]

Rayman being revealed as a trophy before an official reveal means nothing. Game and watch is in somewhat of a similar situation. We all know Game and Watch will return to the fray, and he was seen before an official reveal also. Rayman is entirely possible at this point.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rayman being revealed as a trophy before an official reveal means nothing. Game and watch is in somewhat of a similar situation. We all know Game and Watch will return to the fray, and he was seen before an official reveal also. Rayman is entirely possible at this point.

I completely forgot about that, good point.

 

[Xigger]

Good points, good points. I was expecting the Game&Watch argument earlier. Although veteran reveals don't seem to hold any pattern like newcomers: Charizard got a full newcomer treatment with Greninja, Captain Falcon just appeared and went with the flow, while Game&Watch was shown and that's it.

In support of Rayman, you could argue that Palutena was shown (as a statue and a fake, not herself) before the official reveal, and even by name . Or that Ridley has been anonymously referenced twice, although we only got a glimpse at his shadow and tail.

There are no unbreakable patterns to go by, but right now, Rayman and Gematsu are regarded somewhat similarly with the community. Hard to decide what can be expected or not.

 

[DeathFox137]

Well, I think the reason why they added a Rayman trophy was because Rayman Legends was still a Wii U exclusive in Japan even though worldwide, it was on multiple platforms.

 

[ChikoLad]

Clearer image of that second trophy. Still need to find out where this image came from.

It's definitely Wii U though.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Clearer image of that second trophy. Still need to find out where this image came from.

It's definitely Wii U though.

Official Rayman Facebook/Twitter account.

 

[ChikoLad]

Nah, it came from the official Super Smash Bros Facebook this time.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Super-Smash-Bros/224173137756374?fref=nf

 

[Xigger]

I don't think that's an official Nintendo Facebook page. It's just a fan page.

 

[ChikoLad]

No, that's the official one. It was created hours before the Smash Direct, and had all of the new info ready to post in a jiffy.

 

[D-idara]

The trophy is outright modelled differently. His head looks stylistically different, and his torso is proportionally different. So animated trophy is not a possibility.

I'm not picking apart the methods for the trailers keeping us guessing. As I pointed out, four of the characters were revealed in very different ways, especially Pac-Man, who wasn't even revealed through a trailer. Your posts are just stubbornly ignoring everything I say and touting logical fallacies and saying I'm forming a conspiracy theory, when there aren't any.

Your point of view entirely revolves around something you have decided to register as an unbreakable pattern, or, to be blunt, an assumption.

"If Sakurai reveals a character as a trophy before revealing them as playable, they can't be playable".

This is not fact, it is you making an assumption. The fact remains that neither Sakurai or Ubisoft have denied him being playable. So him being playable is still entirely possible. If anything, he's one of the more likely characters, since we at least know he is in the game in SOME form. Ridley fans use that same logic to tout him being playable as a possibility despite him being a confirmed boss, which is much more contradictory to a playable role than a trophy appearance (something every fighter has).

Ridley's not confirmed as anything.

 

[ChikoLad]

Ridley's not confirmed as anything.

He is confirmed to be a boss. I'm not saying he isn't playable (personally doubt it, but that's an opinion). However, he is confirmed to at least be a boss. He could still be both, though.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

The image on their Facebook is 1280x720 in size and the PNG format, which is odd for them.

(Re-hosting in case it fails)

Spoiler

I want to know what's going on...

 

[ZombieBran]

I don't understand how anyone can completely rule out Rayman based on an imaginary pattern, as if Sakurai cares for any perceived patterns.

Either way, I am far relieved that stoned Rayman isn't (probably) the final trophy.

 

[Xigger]

I don't understand how anyone can completely rule out Rayman based on an imaginary pattern, as if Sakurai cares for any perceived patterns.

Either way, I am far relieved that stoned Rayman isn't (probably) the final trophy.

I like the way you say that. It can't be completely ruled out; The best insight we have is whether or not the pattern has a reason to (still) stand or not.