Official BBR Tier List v7

[Espy Rose]

The one thing that's amazingly satisfying to see, no matter what type of competition it is (be it sports, video games, etc.), is watching a top player crumble into pieces. Seeing Justin Wong getting bodied is a spectacle, and I'm sure anyone could agree with that. That's just the way competitions work. People like to see other players rise to the occasion, and no one is going to cry when all it takes is the curb stomping of a top leveled player.

Mix ups should have no say in MUs because that is one player outsmarting another.

Which is probably why Sonic will never have accurate match ups. He is god awful on paper, and too many people want to centralize match ups around this idea.

Thanks for your response. I feel like we are derailing the thread with this a little bit, but it makes me sad to see read that sort of post... I think P:M might breathe some new life into the community, I know it has where I'm at. Keep on truckin M2k.

Sweet god no. I hope not.

I mean as long as he's not allegedly skeetin in dudes beds and getting our game booted from mlg, m2k is a pretty cool guy, I think. (Not sarcasm)


He's not nearly as socially difficult. To be around as he was before, but he still is dumb and naive and has his little personality quirks,, but like he said, none of that even remotely makes him a bad person.

But anybody can admit, if someone wants a reason to root against m2k, they really wouldn't have to look very hard.

Thissss.

And also, what Reflex said. Nothing better than cheering on the dark horse.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I have definitely felt you have a lot more fun playing smash than various other top levels Reflex, one simple example: taunting after a kill. Usually frowned upon because you seem either "douchey" or "cocky" especially if you lose after taunting all match, but you don't seem to care at all.

I've never understood why people get upset at the taunt button, as it's just another button on the controller. It's no different from F-Smashing repeatedly or something, but people don't see it often in matches, so I like the variety. Also, the fact that some people get so miffed over it can help; they want to punish you for it, so they get aggressive and take more damage. They're also easy animations to act out in real life, because I'm silly. Win-win. I don't care if a person thinks it's a mean thing to do, or frustrating to see someone do something that has no value in "playing to win," or annoying for being different. I do it for myself and anyone else who might appreciate that competition doesn't have to be incredibly serious or silent. Competition is fun, and I'm gonna try to have as much fun as possible. Things get stale when you don't have something new to experiment with or something funny to laugh at.

It's also worth noting that Hydroplane Up-Taunt is one of the coolest-looking things in the game, and a lot of people mistake Hydroplane Down-Taunt for an attack and feel really silly about rolling away from it.

If you're not having fun playing a video game, and you're not guaranteed to make significant amounts of money (which no one is, because I'm talking about Top 3 at APEX-significant), you should probably be doing something else with your life. If it's gonna be an important part of your life, it should be something you get better at, learn new things in, and feel proud to be a part of. I'm a shameless individual who would rather enjoy himself above all else. I enjoy winning, I enjoy getting better, I enjoy doing quirky things in-game, and I enjoy learning more about the stuff I enjoy doing. As long as I can have that, I'll be happy, and I fully intend to share the experience by helping others do the same, whether it's through a match critique, playing friendlies, or just getting to know people who enjoy doing the same things.

 

[Eddie G]

Every region seriously needs a guy like Reflex. Good post man.

 

[Mekos]

Awesome post Reflex haha.

+1 for Reflex. He really is a nice guy and funny too hahaha
Kismet is also really nice and player-1 too...in person!

 

[Luxord]

Every region seriously needs a guy like Reflex. Good post man.

Very true Eddie

And @Reflex yeah I've been at mvc3/other fighter tournaments and when people stand up and enact the name/actions of their hyper/super meter during the win people make fun of em, but honestly who cares. They're just having fun, I know for a fact back when Brawl was new and I landed a great aether I would get pretty hype for it haha.

Also, taunting does seem to get people angry, NO clue why. I mean after a gimp at 20%- or something I'd get mad too, but other than that it's a pretty friendly gesture, shows respect for the fun of the game

 

[Espy Rose]

I'd agree with him if the way I played didn't upset my friends.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've always appreciated the personality of characters, too. If I played UMvC3 and won with Viewtiful Joe, I'd love to just spam V-Dodge after the match ("ACTION! ACTION! ACTION!"), or if I won with Wesker, just lumber forward like he does in RE5. It's an easy trademark you can attach to yourself and make other people look forward to while simply having fun.

 

[Mekos]

haha I'm so with u guys. After a ness or lucas fsmashes someone and they go flying. I yell "homerun!" hahaaha. one of my wifi taunts is that too. So funny!

 

[Espy Rose]

I used to spam side taunt after a kill all the time.
I should start doing that again.

 

[Mekos]

Is that "Yer too slooow!!"? lolololol

Sonic has some pretty awesome taunts lol. U can have fun with all of them

 

[Kink-Link5]

The best thing to do after a kill is to DD until you trip. Legitimate.

 

[Mekos]

A few people create their own unique taunts after they kill someone.

Mine is that I zap jump and then nair.
It looks pretty cool

 

[Mew2King]

The one thing that's amazingly satisfying to see, no matter what type of competition it is (be it sports, video games, etc.), is watching a top player crumble into pieces. Seeing Justin Wong getting bodied is a spectacle, and I'm sure anyone could agree with that.

No, I'm absolutely 100% the opposite. I feel bad when top players lose a lot of the time, like when Daigo got perfected by Poongko (or w/e his name is) I felt bad cuz then people were suddenly saying he was the new beast, despite all daigo has done, so many people think he could be shattered/replaced so easily because of 1 instance, even worse cuz it's only a head to head. Daigo is a bad example because (to be honest) he is Japanese so people automatically like him more than americans like justin wong (although I will admit to not knowing how good/nice/etc. justin wong compared to diago are as people, so I will not further discuss this due to my lack of advanced knowledge on it), I understand your mindset but I don't agree with it and I an sure of my own.

example: i'd always want ally to win over a japanese player of similar skill cuz he's my friend; so let's say ally went to japan and lost to japans best snake in dittos or something, suddenly their japanese snakes are better? that's dumb, and more often than not a really bad way to base things because you're only going off of 1 instance. Who is to say this snake is better overall, maybe he just played better this time or is better in that MU. That sucks though that people will be dumb/annoying and say that then though and that really sucks for top players to have to deal with, or any top player that wants to prove themself. Hopefully you guys understand what I am saying and a big reason why I disagree, maybe because I have experienced this myself many times so I can relate better. I will obviously have an unpopular opinion as most players are not pro players but rather people that want to beat pro players so I can understand (and most likely this will be the case) where most people will probably have an opposite viewpoint as me.

 

[Eddie G]

I float wasp rapidly back and forth across the stage or rapidly float cancel fairs back and forth.

 

[Espy Rose]

Stuff

I said everyone COULD agree, not that they WOULD.


@Mekos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUSL7AvaWrI (get to the part with Sonic)
And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhz0yxyBLYo

 

[Sheck]

No, I'm absolutely 100% the opposite. I feel bad when top players lose a lot of the time, like when Daigo got perfected by Poongko (or w/e his name is) I felt bad cuz then people were suddenly saying he was the new beast, despite all daigo has done, so many people think he could be shattered/replaced so easily. That sucks. Daigo is a bad example because (to be honest) he is Japanese so people automatically like him more than americans like justin wong (although I will admit to not knowing how good justin wond compared to diago are as people, so I will not further discuss this due to my lack of advanced knowledge on it), I understand your mindset but I don't agree with it and I an sure of my own.

But everyone still (or at least should still) respect you as a top player after Apex 2012. I still respect Tom Brady as one of the best QBs in the NFL even after the Giants won the Superbowl again. I don't think losing in one tourney is grounds to discredit a player, and I'm sure Otori/Kakera/OCEAN would still be afraid of you in a tourney. You have a good 7 years of stomping around the tourney scene, and you've already been immortalized in the Smash community. Some will demonize you, but you have to look at it like someone who's new to the scene (like me). You're well past the point where anyone will forget or lose respect for your skill.

 

[Sheck]

And then I realized what my signature is...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

No, I'm absolutely 100% the opposite. I feel bad when top players lose a lot of the time, like when Daigo got perfected by Poongko (or w/e his name is) I felt bad cuz then people were suddenly saying he was the new beast, despite all daigo has done, so many people think he could be shattered/replaced so easily. That sucks. Daigo is a bad example because (to be honest) he is Japanese so people automatically like him more than americans like justin wong (although I will admit to not knowing how good justin wond compared to diago are as people, so I will not further discuss this due to my lack of advanced knowledge on it), I understand your mindset but I don't agree with it and I an sure of my own.

The whims of the crowd are not as fickle as you make them out to be. Most people primarily respect top players for their skill at the game, and that doesn't go away just because they have a bad run. No top player is entitled to any sort of reverence, and as everything Daigo had before getting demolished by Poongko (who was also taking the tournament scene by storm, and was easy to get behind as a top player, himself), he has to work for his respect.

The fact that Poongko became the new hotness doesn't invalidate Daigo as a top player. People have just shifted their hopes and excitement onto someone new. People like seeing new things in the game, so when someone steamrolls Daigo, instead of countless incidents of seeing it backward, it's easy to get excited about. Daigo didn't cry in a corner and stop playing the game because he was outclassed that one time--He continues to kick *** and take names (as far as I'm aware), and people still respect him for doing that, as they always have. He's just being challenged for a top spot, and must work to keep what he has, as he always has managed to do.

Some spectators overexaggerate, and some spectators are malicious about it, but the people really just want to see competition, and there's nothing wrong with that. Also, this notion that people automatically like Japanese people is outright stupid, and I don't understand where anyone could get that idea from.

 

[Luxord]

Oh Espy yes start taunting, IMO only the spacies and wario have taunts comparable to sonic's awesome ones haha

@kink
I usually do a really fast DD at the edge, and because of the control stick inputs to DD you'll automatically do the quick grab onto ledge when you start DDing slightly to the left/right depending on what side of the stage you're on.

 

[Kink-Link5]

No, I'm absolutely 100% the opposite. I feel bad when top players lose a lot of the time, like when Daigo got perfected by Poongko (or w/e his name is) I felt bad cuz then people were suddenly saying he was the new beast, despite all daigo has done, so many people think he could be shattered/replaced so easily because of 1 instance, even worse cuz it's only a head to head. Daigo is a bad example because (to be honest) he is Japanese so people automatically like him more than americans like justin wong (although I will admit to not knowing how good/nice/etc. justin wong compared to diago are as people, so I will not further discuss this due to my lack of advanced knowledge on it), I understand your mindset but I don't agree with it and I an sure of my own.

example: i'd always want ally to win over a japanese player of similar skill cuz he's my friend; so let's say ally went to japan and lost to japans best snake in dittos or something, suddenly their japanese snakes are better? that's dumb, and more often than not a really bad way to base things because you're only going off of 1 instance. Who is to say this snake is better overall, maybe he just played better this time or is better in that MU. That sucks though that people will be dumb/annoying and say that then though and that really sucks for top players to have to deal with, or any top player that wants to prove themself. Hopefully you guys understand what I am saying and a big reason why I disagree, maybe because I have experienced this myself many times so I can relate better. I will obviously have an unpopular opinion as most players are not pro players but rather people that want to beat pro players so I can understand (and most likely this will be the case) where most people will probably have an opposite viewpoint as me.

Personally, I love seeing a big-name player meet a tough opponent that beats them or puts their back to the wall. I love it because I like to watch the game develop, and this is a player-by-player development of the game. When Armada found Hungrybox's Jigglypuff a tough matchup for his Peach, he broke out his surprise Young Link and completely turned the tables. Ever since, Hbox has been drastically improving and taking his game to an even higher level because he has the drive to overcome a weakness.

I agree it is disrespectful and rude to so quickly claim a player has been "Dethroned" though.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't have a taunt input on my D-Pad cause I use K-Prime mashing so whenever I take a stock off (I play ZSS) I just grab/dash dance/platform cancel

 

[Linkshot]

Between stocks: Dash Dance until I trip. Extremely legitimate, gives me peace of mind that my "trip" chance is gone for a while.
At end of match: uTaunt. Dat aura, easy to imitate while sitting, and loosens the muscles after a tense match.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Espy, what was that song on Delfino, I recognize it from something but I have no idea what.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's Nike's Wii, ask him about it.

 

[bubbaking]

Any disadvantageous matchup holds you back by definition of "Disadvantageous." No matter how much of a disadvantage you have, you are fighting an uphill battle the entire way.

If you read the definition of -1 on the MU thread, it does say "small disadvantage" but that is interpreted as almost/virtually even. In other words, on some stages, the character in question is slightly disadvantaged, on some stages the MU is even, and maybe on a few, the character even has the advantage. You have to look at the whole picture when you think about these MU values.

Except when we have to decide a cut off for Mid and Low tier tournaments.

As I've said countless times, it gives flexibilty for TOs so they don't have to follow that "cut off" for Mid and Low tier tourneys. It's not really important anyway.

I annoyed with all of the people complaining about the quote on quote name of the tiers. It's you're opinion on something small and essentially irrelevant to the whole point anyway.

This.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

IMO only the spacies and wario have taunts comparable to sonic's awesome ones haha

You must have forgot about Captain Falcon

 

[infiniteV115]

Between stocks: Dash Dance until I trip. Extremely legitimate, gives me peace of mind that my "trip" chance is gone for a while.
At end of match: uTaunt. Dat aura, easy to imitate while sitting, and loosens the muscles after a tense match.

Wait, you play this game?
Cause I know you're from my region...but I never see you at tournaments XD

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Between stocks: Dash Dance until I trip. Extremely legitimate, gives me peace of mind that my "trip" chance is gone for a while.
At end of match: uTaunt. Dat aura, easy to imitate while sitting, and loosens the muscles after a tense match.

lol, I also do this.

Well, the dash dance until trip anyway.

 

[MiniTroika]

Every region seriously needs a guy like Reflex. Good post man.

Hi.
Reppin` SoCal here.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I've always appreciated the personality of characters, too. If I played UMvC3 and won with Viewtiful Joe, I'd love to just spam V-Dodge after the match ("ACTION! ACTION! ACTION!"), or if I won with Wesker, just lumber forward like he does in RE5. It's an easy trademark you can attach to yourself and make other people look forward to while simply having fun.

this

I play V joe in tourney (just got 9th in a major in ohio over the weekend) and I tend to do that from time to time too.

his actual taunts are also awesome. I think hes the only character that has more than 1 animation that can happen when you do taunt.

I used to spam side taunt after a kill all the time.
I should start doing that again.

this, but in order to do that, I would have to start playing brawl again. lol

 

[Linkshot]

Wait, you play this game?
Cause I know you're from my region...but I never see you at tournaments XD

I'm from Ottawa, man.
I've just been lurking your scene 'cause mine vanished and you guys are cool.

Spoiler

Also 'cause I hear you guys play Minus

 

[infiniteV115]

So if your scene vanished...you don't play this game...correct?
Not at offline tournies, anyway.

 

[GunBlaze]

Dat Olimar...

How did the BBR get to that conclusion? I know it was by voting and all that, but how? XD

 

[Linkshot]

So if your scene vanished...you don't play this game...correct?
Not at offline tournies, anyway.

I would never play online seriously, yuck.
But those are things I used to do when we had actual turnouts and I'll probably do at IMPULSE.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Dat Olimar...

How did the BBR get to that conclusion? I know it was by voting and all that, but how? XD

Because no one used Olimar, so his relative winnings compared to his use was high.

If everyone but Ally and M2K played Olimar he'd have a bad winning ratio and would be low tier.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I also think Mew2King specifically gain A LOT from reading the book that Daigo just wrote, I believe its called, "The Will To Keep Winning" and I plan to scoop it up pretty much AS SOON as it gets translated into English.

 

[AllyKnight]

I"m not even cocky, I don't talk much trash except vs OoC. Japan got my mouth shut. Not Europe though.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ally is also one of the coolest top players ever.

But yeah, I agree 100% with Reflex. Keep in mind we are playing a video game. I picked it up because it is FUN. Winning money is obviously nice, but it isn't my main goal. I enjoy the community, I enjoy the game, I enjoy the hype. I almost enjoy everything that the game brings BESIDES THE GAME ITSELF! Don't get me wrong, I love the game itself, but the things attached to it are so much better. Some of my best friends that I will probably have for the rest of my life came from Smash. If you see me at a national or something, I'm a really sociable (Although sometimes *******-ish) guy and I'm just there to have fun. I get hype when I win big matches (Like me vs Kakera) but I don't get sad when I lose. I take the loss to heart, but I'm at a point where if you beat me you outplayed me so you deserve to win. I don't care WHAT you did to outplay me and beat me as long as you DID outplay me and beat me.

People called me "disrespectful" for taunting a lot against Nietono at Apex. I wasn't doing it at all out of disrespect, I was having some actual fun. I was taunting, knowing that he wouldn't approach because PS1 blah blah stuff and actually taunted in real life. If it was disrespectful to him, that is unfortunate and he should change the way he views things. I had a lot of fun that tournament playing against him and he definitely deserved to beat me (Otori as well).

People don't really get mad at NFL people for screaming and dancing and **** when they score a touchdown, so why get mad at people when they taunt in this game?

 

[Mekos]

People do get mad at them. They get fined for it. lol at smashers failing with their sports references llolol

But Esam I getcha. Esam is a very unique and incredible player. He does things I could never imagine doing. He constantly smiles, talks, and even congratulates his opponents during the match. U should see us play doubles we are opposites lol.

I look like a player with full determination while he is so carefree. I envy his ability to play competitive games that way.

 

[DeLux]

Can you link me to a football player getting sued for excessive celebration please?