New Move: Z-Walk

[wtZzz]

yes taymond, i was wrong about that. i had not yet learned about the auto float by holding jump.

however, my technique does not use the auto float as you can clearly see in the video

 

[Taymond]

Alright, *laughs* lets try this.

What if, let's just.. talk hypothetically here.. what if auto floating looked very similar, to the point of appearing visually identical, to your technique. Then, I think you'll agree, the difference between the two might not be so clearly seen, right?

So.. how might we distinguish your move from auto floating, in this hypothetical case? Say I couldn't tell. Just seeing it, that wasn't enough for me. I needed to feel it. What instructions might you give me to replicate your technique, so I could compare that with auto floating? What buttons, particularly, would you recommend I press, and in what order?

If this really IS different from auto floating, I'd love to understand better what it IS. But you have to understand that you still haven't told us what you're doing. No one can try your tech on their own to compare it to anything. All we see is the video which, as far as we can tell, is not anything new.

So you need to help us understand, man. If it's different, we don't get it! And that's not our fault, it's yours. You haven't explained whatever this is well enough. So give us some buttons if you want us to get it and get off your back.

 

[jayrocs]

wtZZZ now you are making me angry, I went into training mode and completely replicated what I saw in your video, and YES I CAN AIR DODGE with what i described, right after you let go of jump, you can airdodge.

HOLD DOWN
JUMP wait for desired height let go
PRESS/HOLD JUMP AGAIN
(This is not auto-float, it is a manual float)
CHOOSE DIRECTION, LET GO OF JUMP
AIR DODGE
ALL HAPPENS PRETTY FAST

PS. Boo's video shows it done really fast, Boo if you could redo it but hold jump slightly longer so you float a little higher but let go before she actually starts to float and it will be "the z walk". Then airdodge just to make him happy. By the way, the original way I described it, the way Boo does it in his video is by far much faster, and much more useful.

Edit: I wrote down the directions on the previous post incorrectly because I was in a hurry, So here try that it completely replicates everything you did and you can air dodge out of it. If this is still not the way you do it, then please by all means educate us because I am for certain your method has un-needed buttons incorporated, and there are much simpler button inputs required. And for some reason I am no longer annoyed by you, probably because as I said in a couple of days I'll forget you existed, so no need for anymore insults.

And by the way, maybe the reason you think you've never seen this technique done is because in melee people liked to aerial out of it. And it could be done a lot faster, so it looks different.

 

[kciD]

My God, people.

Ok, first of all:
You all are right. This doesn't seem to have much use, except maybe dodging items and such.

Second of all:
The guy states that he's not a pro, he doesn't know the potential of his "discovery," and he's leaving it up to everyone else to discover what could be done with it. Well, he got his answer, and if I got this kind of reaction I would never post here again.

Third of all:
Don't get me wrong, he shouldn't have named the move, but in his defense, he had never seen it before. Everyone is trying to name everything "new" that they do.

Basically, someone tried to come up with a new discovery to help, and asked for critisism. Instead of constructive critisism, he got flames and trolls. That's the second thing that makes me want to leave this board, even with it being the biggest in the smash community. I created one topic (go look at the Doc melee boards) and got fussed at for it. This guy tries to help, hoping someone could build on this discovery, and gets hardcore flamed.

What are you all, 7 years old? This is just ridiculous.

Edit: Taymond's post above is a good example of constructive critisism. Not flaming.

 

[doink]

This technique is obviously far too advanced for any of us to comprehend.

 

[Mama]

yes taymond, i was wrong about that. i had not yet learned about the auto float by holding jump.

however, my technique does not use the auto float as you can clearly see in the video

Hold down and then jump. When you do that you auto float pretty close to the ground. Throw in an air dodge and it pretty much looks like what you were doing. If thats not how you do it then elaborate.

If this truly is joke then I'm wasting my time trying to help you >.>

 

[Taymond]

My God, people.

Ok, first of all:
You all are right. This doesn't seem to have much use, except maybe dodging items and such.

Second of all:
The guy states that he's not a pro, he doesn't know the potential of his "discovery," and he's leaving it up to everyone else to discover what could be done with it. Well, he got his answer, and if I got this kind of reaction I would never post here again.

Third of all:
Don't get me wrong, he shouldn't have named the move, but in his defense, he had never seen it before. Everyone is trying to name everything "new" that they do.

Basically, someone tried to come up with a new discovery to help, and asked for critisism. Instead of constructive critisism, he got flames and trolls. That's the second thing that makes me want to leave this board, even with it being the biggest in the smash community. I created one topic (go look at the Doc melee boards) and got fussed at for it. This guy tries to help, hoping someone could build on this discovery, and gets hardcore flamed.

What are you all, 7 years old? This is just ridiculous.

Edit: Taymond's post above is a good example of constructive critisism. Not flaming.

No he didn't, don't defend him purely out of habit. He proposed something. A lot of people responded positively at first. A lot responded in perfectly well mannered confusion. People asked questions, they said "are you sure it's not this?" A couple people called him an idiot, sure. It's gonna happen around here, unfortunately. Nobody wrote a 10 paragraph post ripping him apart until much later.

He didn't want criticism. After he got explanations that what he was doing was a variation of something else, a less useful variation in fact, he said "Screw all of you, you're wrong, and I'll prove it. I'm going to develop this technique into the very FOUNDATION of my playstyle and prove you all wrong come tournament time. Also, I don't accept criticism well." Or uh.. something to that effect.

I responded pleasantly and calmly because I always act that way. But even I know he was being an ***.

 

[kciD]

Hm...well again you're good at constructive critisism. I didn't read the last few pages, the first few pissed me off. I still think people need to back off...when someone pissed you off on the internet you can't just get pissed back. That's the stupidest thing to do....because nothing can be done. Just ignore it, and move on.

Thanks for a futher explanation, though. Without flaming or trolling.

 

[wtZzz]

If you float ON the ground you can't do an air dodge out of it. You will see in the video I clearly leave the ground and do an air dodge right after, without completing my short hop.

This is not done by pressing down and quickly doing anything. It is actually much more simple.

You will noticed that, while crouched and holding down, if you do a short hop, you will jump. If you do a high jump you will not leave the ground, but instead come insantly back to the ground.

If you hold the jump button, you will float on the ground.

In order to do the Z walk, the method (which no one has mentioned yet), is to duck, hold down, short hop, immediately jump again. This will cancel your short hop and drop you back to the group. Now, if you hold down-left, you will move to the left, down-right and you will move right. If you hit your shield button after you cancel the short hop, you will do an arial dodge.

Now, yes I have learned you can also break out of your short hop by hitting
jump - down/jump.

However, in testing, you simply can not do this as fast as my method, and there is much more room for error.

I will concede the Z-walk does work off of existing knowledge, however, no one was able to mention the correct button combination, making me wonder how knowledful some of the rabid posters here are.

I urge many of you to calm down, everything is OK. No need to panic when you see wtZzz trying to bring new material, because there will be much more of this. Gaming becomes more fun as you discover more techniques and strategies to use.

Thank you to KCID for defending posting rights. It was funny how quick people became HOSTILE over such a simple post. As in all forums, the newer guys are the fiesty ones, while the older guys sit back and hand out 5 word posts.

Man oh man guys, this isn't YOUR game. If it is now, there are thousands and thousands of players practicing to take it away. Targeting me isn't going to help you. You can let me help you as I master this game, or you can fall behind. I am world famous for my gaming with the Wii. I was very dissapointed to learn how much the Wiimote blew for this game, as it was the only pre-release advantage I might have had.

Oh well, a month of training and I'll have this game invented/wired.

Now go practice

 

[I.T.P]

WTzzz, if I were you, I'd just shove my head in a hole in the ground and just admit I was wrong, if you're not holding jump, pressing down, pressing forward, letting go of jump, and pressing shield, then I'm an idiot, but after playing Melee peach for 6.5 years and brawl peach for a month and a half, there's no way in hell you're doing anything but that. and frame by frame disection of your video will show it in a second.

I'll even do it for you:

"Z-Walk" -

Ground Float -

If you still don't realise this is not new or diffrent in any way except height of jump, and if you actually think this is more usefull than doing advancing consecutive ground float Nairs, then you, my dear sir, are hopeless.

just my 2 cents

 

[jayrocs]

Actually, a couple of posts ago, I step by step said what you have just posted here. I've just been adding edits to be nice and take out my insults. But regardless one minute prior to your post is still enough that I had the instructions out before you revealed them.

 

[wtZzz]

WTzzz, if I were you, I'd just shove my head in a hole in the ground and just admit I was wrong, if you're not holding jump, pressing down, pressing forward, letting go of jump, and pressing shield, then I'm an idiot, but after playing Melee peach for 6.5 years and brawl peach for a month and a half, there's no way in hell you're doing anything but that. and frame by frame disection of your video will show it in a second.

well as I said in my last post, I was not holding jump, so what does that make you again?

 

[wtZzz]

Actually, a couple of posts ago, I step by step said what you have just posted here. I've just been adding edits to be nice and take out my insults. But regardless one minute prior to your post is still enough that I had the instructions out before you revealed them.

i read your post earlier and it was much different

nice editing lol

 

[jayrocs]

Like I said, the edit time is still 1 minute prior to your post so it doesn't matter. Just because I left out what I thought was common knowledge doesn't make me any more wrong. And btw you must hold jump slightly on the second jump, or you will not float, you will double jump.

Edit: Next time you think you found a new technique, post it in the character discussion as well, you will get a lot more information from experienced players in that field. I didn't even play peach a lot in melee but I understood how to do her float cancelling, and in melee people tried to do it as fast as possible, so excuse them for not "waiting" to do it as everyone is used to more advanced ways of movement and attacks.

 

[I.T.P]

Wtzzz, look at the pictures in my last post, comparing the 2 videos, it's clear that your peach is going into float animation, the only way to do that, is to press\hold\tap jump together with down, the diffrence is, if you did that with your second jump(I.E pressed or held jump) then you wasted both your second jump and float for a very useless and predictable form of DJC which can be easily intercepted.

if you did that while holding jump(like I said, and like boo showed) then you would only waste your first jump, thus still be able to recover if intercepted.

and try what we're saying for crying out load, people have been playing this game longer and better than you have. try jumping, don't let go of jump, press down at desired height, hold forward, let go of jump quickly after pressing down, and do an aerial dodge\move\nothing. how is this any diffrent from what you're doing?

and also, float canceling in melee is not referring to canceling a jump into a float, or anything into a float, it's referring to doing an aerial attack out of a float and then landing during the animation, as a result from an overlooked game function, this causes all lag from your aerial to dissapear, so it CANCELS an aerial using a FLOAT, which is why it was named FLOAT CANCEL

 

[wtZzz]

Ok thank you for the definition of float canceling. I only included that term because several people said it was just float canceling, and I was sure it wasn't.

 

[Huber]

Your persistence to defend something so insignificant as the small details in your button combination shows that you are going to nit-pick to the death when it's clear you are wrong. They told you it wasn't useful or new in a decent manner and you very rudely told them they were wrong like they needed to prove it. Now that they have you are doing whatever it takes to prove them wrong, no matter how wrong you are. That is pathetic.

 

[jayrocs]

I think this topic should just be closed now as everything is finally worked out. If I actually checked a previous post it would have been worked out hours earlier, but oh well. wtZzz do you know understand why everyone automatically says its a groundfloat? It's because no good player wants to waste their second jump, and risk dying from something stupid ie Marth's fsmash and not be able to recover. With the ease, or lack of DI that is needed to play brawl this may not be that important especially for a good recovery player like peach. But, before you go practicing this technique of yours for a month, why not try out the good and proper way to do it, its faster and more useful especially if you aerial out of ground floats. Try it do not let go of jump, you can include multiple attacks in one float you can even attack and retreat and attack while retreating during the float. This is the reason your double jumped float into airdodge is useless, as better things already exist.

 

[wtZzz]

Thank you Huber, but everything is meant to be questioned. It would be highly unintelligent of me to take their word for it, espcially if I was receiving inadequate responses.

Unfortunately, I have used this in several matches tonight.

This quick move allows you to quickly dodge an attack and change your positioning without going the distance of a roll. I used it against several arial attacks and projectiles.

Yes you are right, it brings a risk. However, it can also win you a game

 

[Taymond]

Okay.. I don't particularly care for Peach, so I had as-of-yet not bothered to try this garbage, BUT since this has gone on SO long I just gave it a try. You.. cannot be serious. This is identical to auto floating. This IS auto floating, one might say. All you're doing is floating slightly off the ground instead of on the ground. You're just short hopping and then floating, since you can get short hop out of a crouch without floating on the ground.

The only reason you can't airdodge from a groundfloat (which may be the wrong name? I'm blanking) is because you hit the ground again too fast. If you float NOT on the ground, but near it, sure you can airdodge. 'Cause you've got some air between you and the ground in which to dodge.

I guess it seems you may be claiming that you're not floating at all now? How 'bout this. Hold jump the second time. There ya go, you're floating, and you can do all the airdodges you want out of this. All you're doing is just cancelling the float as soon as you start it. It's still there, it's what cancels the short hop. Just 'cause you're doing it only briefly doesn't mean you're not doing it. It's hard to see it, I know, but you're floating for at least a frame. If you go to 1/4 speed and watch extra careful, you can see the floating frame in there briefly.

Um, secondly, I can hardly even believe the rest of your last post on the previous page. It's almost too much. So full of conceit and arrogance, oh how beautiful it is. I'm sure you're going to be on top of the world soon. You're the bee's knees alright, what with your inability to recognize a known ability or the relative lack of worth of the singular application of it you have "discovered."

On top of the world...

 

[wtZzz]

On top of the world...

to the moon baby, to the moon

 

[jayrocs]

Taymond Lol, I don't think ground floating is the name either, I don't think it had a name it was just called float cancelling and people knew what it was. I never had to explain so much before, and I don't even play peach ever.

wtZzz, sorry but I can't let it go that you still think this is useful. you can easily just jump to avoid an attack or projectile and change positions, you can float and run away then air dodge, shield. You can just simply shield or ground dodge. Without wavedashing this game does leave us more limited, and cool you are trying to replace the wavedash. Sadly though this isnt it. I change my mind now too, hopefull you are still around in a month or two, hopefull you will appear in lan tournaments. If not good luck with online brawl, I just want you to actually play REAL good players. That is the only way to get better, cuz if you are just training with your clan mates and they are all at the same level as you which is low, you will not get good fast. Its a lot more fun to get good together at the same pace but, get in a real tournament with named players, play friendlies etc tourneys have a lot of experienced players even the by standers know more than you. You will quickly see the difference in skill, and the uselessnes of this sequence of basic gameplay movements.

Im actually done for the night though so good night good luck, hopefull we never run into eachother again as I tend to also defend myself a lot so I cannot be too angry with you. Maybe in a month Ill find you again maybe I won't and actually you're from CA? Send me a PM we can play online, try and use that technique on me I'll show you its flaws.

 

[XxRaccoonxX]

stubborn...

Even though Im most likely the newest member here, I can see that most people on this thread agree this move is not as good as wtZzz thinks it is. If all of these pro's say it's useless then just accept the fact and end this before your move becomes a joke. Listen to the smash veterans.

 

[wtZzz]

Taymond Lol,

wtZzz, sorry but I can't let it go that you still think this is useful. you can easily just jump to avoid an attack or projectile and change positions, you can float and run away then air dodge, shield. You can just simply shield or ground dodge. Without wavedashing this game does leave us more limited, and cool you are trying to replace the wavedash. Sadly though this isnt it. I change my mind now too, hopefull you are still around in a month or two, hopefull you will appear in lan tournaments. If not good luck with online brawl, I just want you to actually play REAL good players. That is the only way to get better, cuz if you are just training with your clan mates and they are all at the same level as you which is low, you will not get good fast. Its a lot more fun to get good together at the same pace but, get in a real tournament with named players, play friendlies etc tourneys have a lot of experienced players even the by standers know more than you. You will quickly see the difference in skill, and the uselessnes of this sequence of basic gameplay movements.

haha no, I am by far one of the worst players in my group, since I never played melee. In fact, I am not even a part of the Brawl division yet. I wouldn't allow myself to be, since WT focuses on elite-level gaming. I am a great rep for MSC and MOHH2, but I wouldn't judge WT by my skills in Brawl yet. I will get to the top level, no doubt in my mind. Finding a main was project 1.

 

[I.T.P]

I guess it seems you may be claiming that you're not floating at all now? How 'bout this. Hold jump the second time. There ya go, you're floating, and you can do all the airdodges you want out of this. All you're doing is just cancelling the float as soon as you start it. It's still there, it's what cancels the short hop. Just 'cause you're doing it only briefly doesn't mean you're not doing it. It's hard to see it, I know, but you're floating for at least a frame. If you go to 1/4 speed and watch extra careful, you can see the floating frame in there briefly.

he can't even claim that, I snipped his video and showed a floating animation

 

[Taymond]

Alright, this is the best I can do for ya.

This is me, pausing the game often while repeatedly "z-walking." Eventually, I hit the frame I wanted to. Looks an awful lot like a float, huh? My guess would be that, since a float cancels your short hop, and we have here a move that involves jumping that cancels a short hop, there's a good chance there's probably a brief float in there, huh? Make any sense at all?

I realize you're going to have to take my word that this was indeed taken from a z-walk, not a simple float. But that's all I got. I don't have any video editing tools to step through yours frame by frame and pull out the float frame, but I assure you it's there. It's right here, in fact, in this very post.

You're cancelling the short hop with a float, then immediately stopping that float and airdodging. Plain and simple. I don't care if you use it, knock yourself out. But t'ain't nothin' special.

Edit: I guess that image didn't show up? First image I've tried to post, don't really know if I did it right. In any case, http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo0052jz2.jpg

 

[I.T.P]

Taymond don't bother, if he still argues after I snipped a snapshot of a float animation FROM HIS OWN VIDEO, then the man is too self-centered to listen to anyone

 

[AllLifeIsButADream]

Resistance is futile. Just get over the fact that you're wrong.

 

[rtmcs1017]

i do apologize for showing this too early, since this game is too new. not enough people know how to play it, and I am still trying to master the gamecube remote after using the wiimote for 7 months.

lol watch out he's a wiimote-using P R O.

 

[Yuna]

If you float ON the ground you can't do an air dodge out of it. You will see in the video I clearly leave the ground and do an air dodge right after, without completing my short hop.

This is not done by pressing down and quickly doing anything. It is actually much more simple.

You will noticed that, while crouched and holding down, if you do a short hop, you will jump. If you do a high jump you will not leave the ground, but instead come insantly back to the ground.

If you hold the jump button, you will float on the ground.

In order to do the Z walk, the method (which no one has mentioned yet), is to duck, hold down, short hop, immediately jump again. This will cancel your short hop and drop you back to the group. Now, if you hold down-left, you will move to the left, down-right and you will move right. If you hit your shield button after you cancel the short hop, you will do an arial dodge.

Now, yes I have learned you can also break out of your short hop by hitting
jump - down/jump.

So basically, you're doing exactly what we thought you did (crouching is holding down) plus the added action of also wasting your 2nd jump?

Auto-Floating slightly off the ground into a 2nd jump? I would've speculated that that was what you were doing because it lookedl ike you were using her 2nd jump but I didn't think you'd be that... intellectually challenged.

You just sacrificed your 1st jump, 2nd jump and your float for a useless technique that's less effective than any of her other options (even a normal Ground-Float is better) with the only advantage that you can't trip during it.

Say hello to me Fsmashing you in the face. No jumps, no Float. Congratulations.

 

[I.T.P]

So basically, you're doing exactly what we thought you did (crouching is holding down) plus the added action of also wasting your 2nd jump?

Auto-Floating slightly off the ground into a 2nd jump? I would've speculated that that was what you were doing because it lookedl ike you were using her 2nd jump but I didn't think you'd be that... intellectually challenged.

You just sacrificed your 1st jump, 2nd jump and your float for a useless technique that's less effective than any of her other options (even a normal Ground-Float is better) with the only advantage that you can't trip during it.

Say hello to me Fsmashing you in the face. No jumps, no Float. Congratulations.

so all that just for a double jump from a ground float? pffft.

to this I say

"Find a technique!"
"What's this? no jump, no 2nd jump, no float, Final destination"

 

[Damax]

I didn't think you'd be that... intellectually challenged.

wasn't that my post near the very begining of the thread? LOL

hmm you know, don't complain, it's this kind of people who gives extra money for a tournament pot LOL

 

[IShotLazer]

pretty useless and egocentric.

 

[stelzig]

Until you do this with another character i can't understand how you can even believe yourself that you aren't just floating to cancel your jump.

 

[Doomblaze]

This is where the big kids play smash bros.
Dont come here with techniques that hurt you EVER. Dont come here with techniques where you dont know what you're doing unless you wna get flamed.
Example: see every post before mine

 

[Scala]

Why doesn't this thread just get locked? This is simply recycled and renamed information...

 

[takieddine]

I second the motion to lock this.

 

[DGMavn]

The problem with your post, Z, was that instead of offering new information to the community, you presented a video with a technique that you clearly had not practiced or investigated (otherwise that video would have been 30 seconds instead of 4 minutes), didn't tell us how to do it, and demanded respect for it.

The way your post should have gone:

"Hey guys,

Can anyone tell me if this is a new technique?

Using peach:
- duck, hold down, short hop, immediately jump again.

This will cancel your short hop and drop you back to the group. Now, if you hold down-left, you will move to the left, down-right and you will move right. If you hit your shield button after you cancel the short hop, you will do an aerial dodge.

I have a video here.

If you guys like it, call it the Z-walk."

At which point people would have said:

"This is triangle jumping combined with floating. Also, using your second jump for no reason as Peach will get you gimped."

Also, every time I saw you Z-walk, your shield came up at the end of the move. That's a fair amount of lag waiting for that shield to pop up and go away in which you can be grabbed/approached.

If you're anywhere near your opponent, a good opponent will grab you.

If you're far away from your opponent, you'll either get hit with projectiles or get approached - the first you should be avoiding, the second you should be preventing with turnips.

Also your second technique (shorthop over and roll behind) only works on people who are too slow to usmash the crap out of you during the shorthop and happen to place themselves right in front of where your roll ends up (ie, they don't move at ALL during that timeframe). If you're playing people who aren't spacing properly to prevent that, then you're not playing the right people. These moves might work on a sandbag, but good players will punish a full shorthop on top of them with no moves.

Your first technique (the pseduo-dashdance cancel into running) is probably your most useful.

 

[CasshernDGZ]

Yo...this thread is soooo stupid. What I can't seem to comprehend, after reading all 8 pages of this...whatever you want to call it is why are you still posting? If he says its good, let him use it. Let him master it, and let him go to tourneys with that shiz. Let him do whatever he pleases. If he uses it affectively he uses it affectively, and if he doesn't he'll realize how foolish he was being for letting this go on. If you guys honestly and truly believe that that this is such a bad, "tech" Don't even bother, why are you giving this thread so much play. Just don't comment, and it'll slowly recede into the depths of the forum.

My personal opinion on that this "tech" however, is that if you don't float cancel with it Zzz, then use a different character. I would love to see this with other folks. But wait, I only see you doing it with peach, so why would a technique, using the same game mechanics available to every character in the game, only be shown with Peach? Just post another video doing it with someone else...

 

[BC-Chris]

lol triple post
mods dont like that just so you know not to do it anymore