List of Advanced Techniques - Confirmed/Disconfirmed (With sources)

[ShortFuse]

fox illusion cancel, confirmed
check first post.

as for respawn invisibility, now i'm confused. i used to think the invincibility was cancelled by an attack and found videos where they come out not invincible.

watch fox at 00:59 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuZsxnQiCyo

he's still blinking invincible when he comes down

oh yeah, respawn invincibility is definite
http://youtube.com/watch?v=47p2cRGqOrQ Bowser @ 00:23

 

[FightingGameGuy]

Just got back from E for All. You'll probably want to find a video anyway, but dash-dashing was still in the game. All your confirmations/disconfirmations are accurate. As the people in the thread already figured out, air dodging is now momentum based. This of course entails the demise of wavedashing. L-canceling seems to have no to minimal effect I believe.


Hearsay
Someone at the venue also said jump-cancel grabbing was still in, but I've never done the technique, simply wavedashing instead. I also heard that Yoshi can no longer jump cancel. These people could be wrong of course.

/edit added the sentence about wavedashing.
/edit removed correction based on unrefreshed post

 

[ShortFuse]

Just got back from E for All. You'll probably want to find a video anyway, but dash-dashing was still in the game. All your confirmations/disconfirmations are accurate except for directional air-dodging ... why hasn't that been updated? As the people in the thread already figured out, air dodging is now momentum based. This of course entails the demise of wavedashing. L-canceling seems to have no to minimal effect I believe.


Hearsay
Someone at the venue also said jump-cancel grabbing was still in, but I've never done the technique, simply wavedashing instead. I also heard that Yoshi can no longer jump cancel. These people could be wrong of course.

/edit added the sentence about wavedashing.

you said i have directional air-dodge wrong. i have it as disconfirmed. it's in?

 

[Igneous42]

Crouch cancel in the Castle Siege video around 1:09. Diddy crouch cancels Meta-Knight's Down Smash

crouch cancel just where you hold down and don't go as far/fly right?

cause if so it's back, I did it multiple times while I was there

 

[FightingGameGuy]

Sorry Shortfuse, I hadn't refreshed the first page of the thread. The one I was looking at still said Directional dodging was confirmed. It is of course, as you now state, not in the game, being replaced by momentum based air-dodging.

 

[Inkslinger]

Wavelanding is in, but i think i'm the only one who did it knowing the technique, but it works a lot different than before. I did it many times and even used it effectively in matches, but wavedashing in the traditional sense seems to be gone.

 

[shinkazenokizzu]

intresting looking forward to read more

 

[Mama]

Wavelanding is in, but i think i'm the only one who did it knowing the technique, but it works a lot different than before. I did it many times and even used it effectively in matches, but wavedashing in the traditional sense seems to be gone.

Seems that way. The sliding after certain moves only opens up a door for more things to be discovered....I can't wait to get my hands on this game lol.

 

[ShortFuse]

Wavelanding is in, but i think i'm the only one who did it knowing the technique, but it works a lot different than before. I did it many times and even used it effectively in matches, but wavedashing in the traditional sense seems to be gone.

That's exactly what I thought. That Wario clip, Mario's bAir and MetaKnight's glide around the surface. The whole game is more slippery (slipperer? :-P). I thought twice about disconfirming waveland. I'm very glad DashDance is in albeit different. It was a huge part of my style.

 

[Zarckoh]

I don't know if anyone noticed but at this video the techinque or a similar one that Yoshi used at this gif is used by Mario

Thanks to Zauron for the gif.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26689.html

At 1:22

 

[Kittah4]

You're absolutely right, he fell right on his face. But Gimpy said it was done by dash dancing incorrectly, and he does it from pretty much standing still. If you can cancel the trip into a standing smash or grab, then this move could very well be the new wavedash, as it has movement, apparent invinicbility, and cancelable properties. If you could do it consistently from standing still, then it would be even better.

 

[Phlemingo]

Jump after air dodge? Explain.

 

[Sandwich]

But Gimpy said it was done by dash dancing incorrectly, and he does it from pretty much standing still.

Maybe it's flicking the controller/stick left to right really quick. That's the only reason I can think of.

The GIF clip looks like Yoshi was tripping after he moved, though.

 

[Kittah4]

Hm, so perhaps clicking back to front or front to back really quickly makes you trip? That would be interesting. I wonder what happens if you let yourself fall and not roll out of it, perhaps theres a third wakeup move? Being able to fall over at will is kind of interesting, and amusing if it becomes an advanced tactic.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Mhmm. That would be called the Ink Drop.

So, TC, don't forget:

Ink Drop
Hugging

Both new techniques in Gimpy's thread.

 

[Wyvern]

I would like to propose a new unconfirmed technique! Well, it's not entirely new, since I speculate it's pretty much just a heightened understanding of all of this "ink drop" stuff, but it still might be worth mentioning. I'm tentatively calling it the "dash brake" (or maybe just "braking")

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26689.html

At 1:35, Mario dashes at Kirby at full speed, stops dead in his tracks, and then f-smashes. Combined with what I've heard about this "ink drop" thing from Gimpy's thread, I think I've got the basic idea of what this probably is. In Melee, if you tried to turn around while dashing, you would just start dashing in the other direction after a reasonably long turning sequence. In Brawl, I'm thinking that maybe instead of that, smashing the control stick in the opposite direction will cause the character to screech to a halt, ending the dash much earlier than normal traction and momentum would allow. If you accidently hold it too long, you trip (and that's the "ink drop").

I also proposed this in Gimpy's thread in hopes that someone over there gets this whole "ink drop" thing better than I do, so maybe they'll have something to add to this. But this theory seems to hold up pretty well from what I've heard. It still doesn't explain why people sometimes trip from a standing position, though...

 

[Mr.GAW]

Hmm, you definetly couldn't do that in melee- good find!

 

[thesage]

He could've cc'd and Mario's f-smash is just that slow... but still it's interesting. That's not an ink drop though.

 

[ShortFuse]

I'm actually going to wait for it all to die down and all techniques come in from tomorrow's E for All before I post stuff.

 

[Wyvern]

He could've cc'd and Mario's f-smash is just that slow... but still it's interesting. That's not an ink drop though.

If he had crouched we would have seen him crouch. He clearly just stopped while standing. And I'm not saying that this is an "ink drop"...I'm saying that that's probably what would have happened if he had held left on the control stick for another second or so. That's my understanding on how the "ink drop" starts, anyway...holding the opposite direction after dashing for a while.

 

[Zauron]

So...wouldn't this mean...Wavedashing is sort of in anyway? By virtue of the fact that everything it gave you can now be done in a different way?

I mean, think about it. What was Wavedashing used for besides giving extra speed to some slow characters?

1) Edge hogging by Wavedashing back off the edge of a ledge - Now you can just run off and tap back toward the stage to do the same thing.

2) Wavedash back then attack - First, some characters have a back roll so fast and lag-free that its pretty much the same as a Wavedash back. Secondly, you could do an actual, normal Dash backwards, then do a Dash Pivot Cancel to turn and attack in the direction you were originally facing. This accomplishes the same thing that a Wavedash back does, and is even more controllable because you can pivot at any time and move at a rate not dependant on your sliding friction. You can also Dash Dance into a Dash Brake to accomplish much the same thing.

3) Wavedash forward into an attack - Now you can Dash forward, then do a "Dash Brake" to stop on a dime and do your attack. The same thing that Wavedashing forward and attack would do.

4) Psych out opponent by quickly Wavedashing back and forth so they do not know when you will actually attack - This can be done just as easily with Dash Dancing, which is still in.

5) Slide toward or away when landing (Wavelanding) for spacing - Seems characters now naturally tend to slide in the direction they were moving when landing anyway, so you can almost Waveland by just pressing the direction you want to slide before you land and not have to press L/R at all. You can possibly even slide further by doing an air attack just before landing, as the Mario BAir clip we thought was a Waveland showed.

So, am I missing anything? Is there anything Wavedashing could do that you couldn't now accomplish with Dash Dancing, Dash Braking, and Dash Pivot Cancelling? Have we in fact not lost anything, but just gained alternate ways to do it that look more natural, is easier to do, and is possibly entirely intended to be used this way by the devs (judging from the fact that the Kirby/Mario footage showing off the Dash Brake was prerecorded footage from Nintendo)?

It seems everything lost is also something gained in its place, like losing directional dodging but gaining freedom to do things after the air-dodge is over. And losing L-cancelling but gaining reduced lag on most air attacks doesn't take away any strategy or tactics whatsoever (since there was no reason NOT to L-cancel every air attack if you could, there was no strategy about when and where you should use it, you should always do it if you can, thus it wasn't really part of the metagame at all, it was just a straight-up technical skill). Now it just saves you a button press when SHFFL'ing. And now, losing Wavedashing but gaining the Tumble techniques which can take its place. Plus a natural tendency to slide when landing taking the place of Wavelanding.

 

[marthmaster04]

That fast jump is interesting, maybe a glitch from a footstool hop?

 

[Magus420]

You forgot WD out of shield which was a very useful OoS option ^^

 

[Wyvern]

Not that I've ever been of the pro-wavedash-in-Brawl opinion, but for the sake of fairness: the fact that dashdancing is still in puts a minimum range on dash braking and dash pivot ink tumble drop cancel whatevering (and the latter might have a startup time to it), so they might not be as universally applicable as wavedashing was, especially for characters whose wavedashes were a lot faster than their running dashes. Then again, some of them might be more useful than wavedashing for high-traction characters (I'm sure I could work dash braking into my Link game a lot easier than trying to figure out a use for his two-inch wavedash). Plus, seeing as how this is all stuff that we've found just in day one, there's no telling what kinds of other things will have been discovered a year from now.

 

[ShortFuse]

Not that I've ever been of the pro-wavedash-in-Brawl opinion, but for the sake of fairness: the fact that dashdancing is still in puts a minimum range on dash braking and dash pivot ink tumble drop cancel whatevering (and the latter might have a startup time to it), so they might not be as universally applicable as wavedashing was, especially for characters whose wavedashes were a lot faster than their running dashes. Then again, some of them might be more useful than wavedashing for high-traction characters (I'm sure I could work dash braking into my Link game a lot easier than trying to figure out a use for his two-inch wavedash). Plus, seeing as how this is all stuff that we've found just in day one, there's no telling what kinds of other things will have been discovered a year from now.

I was thinking calling it a tumble despite gimpyfish and others are trying to coin it as "ink drop". i know i might have some influence since i expect this thread to live on upto and past official final release. but seriously, anyone who finds an advanced technique within a few hours of playing a new game deserves his name on it. "ink drop" gets my approval

 

[Ban Heim]

I've posted this in another thread but I figured I'd post it here as well:

I just noticed something in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8PqbN2WM7M

At around 1:18-1:19, Sonic appears to do his aerial down kick (not sure if it's down A or down B), but then before he starts to move down after sticking his foot out, he seems to cancel it and do it again. Anyone know what that is? It kind of looks like he jumped after doing it (it shows the little jumping effect under his feet) but he does it from right where he first executed the move. It would be pretty useful for some mindgames and whatnot. It's like a fake fall or a d-air cancel or something.

Anyone know what it is?

If it's something useful, then I christen it fake fall or fall cancel or d-air cancel...or something that sounds cool and useful.

 

[ShortFuse]

Ban Heim, I'll check it out in a second. There's some backlash as to name of "Ink Drop". I find it weird too but I think Ink does deserve credit. Maybe Ink's Drop. and ID for short?

 

[ShortFuse]

In Melee, if you tried to turn around while dashing, you would just start dashing in the other direction after a reasonably long turning sequence. In Brawl, I'm thinking that maybe instead of that, smashing the control stick in the opposite direction will cause the character to screech to a halt, ending the dash much earlier than normal traction and momentum would allow. If you accidently hold it too long, you trip (and that's the "ink drop").

I don't know if it can be that. I see it's a new technique, yes. But I don't think that's the input. In the Samus vs Mario video, you see Samus dash to one side and then try to dash back and you get the Melee-Style retreating, slide foot across floor and come back. Maybe for some characters only? trying to dash dance and press down somewhere? maybe Ink slipped and press down

 

[Mr.GAW]

Something for your thread from nealdt:

"You can catch items in the air with A, and if you do so then you also do your attack in the same animation. So Peach can catch a turnip and fair at the same time."

 

[thesage]

If he had crouched we would have seen him crouch. He clearly just stopped while standing. And I'm not saying that this is an "ink drop"...I'm saying that that's probably what would have happened if he had held left on the control stick for another second or so. That's my understanding on how the "ink drop" starts, anyway...holding the opposite direction after dashing for a while.

If you cc fast enough you don't go into the crouch animation (you go into the first few frames, but it's not visible to the naked/non-AR-using eye).

 

[Wyvern]

If you cc fast enough you don't go into the crouch animation (you go into the first few frames, but it's not visible to the naked/non-AR-using eye).

Really. I must suck at doing it then, 'cause I'm sure I've never seen it done that fast.

I still doubt that's what it was, though. Or if it was a crouch-based technique, I'd say it's a safe bet that they completely redid its mechanics for Brawl.

 

[thesage]

I still doubt that's what it was, though. Or if it was a crouch-based technique, I'd say it's a safe bet that they completely redid its mechanics for Brawl.

I think so too, but it's always possible you never know.... that's why I mentioned it.

 

[Zauron]

Something for your thread from nealdt:

"You can catch items in the air with A, and if you do so then you also do your attack in the same animation. So Peach can catch a turnip and fair at the same time."

That's actually really cool, I totally think that should be added to the first post.

 

[Zauron]

I made a .gif of Mario's trip move. I noticed that unlike the Yoshi clip, Mario trips in the opposite direction from what he was facing (Yoshi was facing right the whole time just before he did it and never faced left). So it seems you can do it in either direction, and can do it out of an idle since both characters where in idle when they did it.

Also, Yoshi rolled forward out of it, and Mario rolled back out of it, so once the trip is over and they are sitting on their butts, you can roll either way.

Anyway here's the clip taken from the GameTrailers video demoing the adventure mode:

 

[Zauron]

I would like to propose a new unconfirmed technique! Well, it's not entirely new, since I speculate it's pretty much just a heightened understanding of all of this "ink drop" stuff, but it still might be worth mentioning. I'm tentatively calling it the "dash brake" (or maybe just "braking")

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26689.html

At 1:35, Mario dashes at Kirby at full speed, stops dead in his tracks, and then f-smashes. Combined with what I've heard about this "ink drop" thing from Gimpy's thread, I think I've got the basic idea of what this probably is. In Melee, if you tried to turn around while dashing, you would just start dashing in the other direction after a reasonably long turning sequence. In Brawl, I'm thinking that maybe instead of that, smashing the control stick in the opposite direction will cause the character to screech to a halt, ending the dash much earlier than normal traction and momentum would allow. If you accidently hold it too long, you trip (and that's the "ink drop").

I also proposed this in Gimpy's thread in hopes that someone over there gets this whole "ink drop" thing better than I do, so maybe they'll have something to add to this. But this theory seems to hold up pretty well from what I've heard. It still doesn't explain why people sometimes trip from a standing position, though...

Just for you Wyvern, here's a handy .gif you can use to demonstrate your Dash Braking discovery. It does not appear to be dash-cancelling by crouching, nor does it share any of the opening animation frames as the Trip.

 

[Magus420]

In melee you only need to crouch for 2 frames out of a run before it cancels and you can go into a move. Unless it works differently I don't see cancelling a run like that being useful at all really.

 

[Wyvern]

Neat. You can't really tell how drastic a deceleration it is from that speed, unfortunately.

The only reason I relate it to the trip is because of Gimpyfish's description of what Inkslinger did. He mentioned that you did it by "screwing up a dash dance"; that is to say, trying to turn around after already running too far. The possibility of it being linked to this other move which also involves stopping your forward dashing momentum just seemed pretty likely to me. I don't know for sure if Inkslinger's tumbling thing is even the same kind of stumbling animation we've been seeing in your GIFs, though, since we know so little about it.

In melee you only need to crouch for 1 frame out of a run before it cancels and you can go into a move. Unless it works differently I don't see cancelling a run like that being useful at all really.

Traction seems to be REALLY loose in Brawl compared to what it was in Melee. I don't have any proof, but I'm guessing that crouching out of a dash will still cause you to slide a decent distance for a lot of characters. Mario, in spite of having the lowest traction of all the characters in the demo (or close to it, at least), came almost to a dead stop with this technique. I think it might be intended more to set up exact spacing, like deliberately causing Link to stop within sword range of someone, but outside of their attack range.

 

[Zauron]

Neat. You can't really tell how drastic a deceleration it is from that speed, unfortunately.

The only reason I relate it to the trip is because of Gimpyfish's description of what Inkslinger did. He mentioned that you did it by "screwing up a dash dance"; that is to say, trying to turn around after already running too far. The possibility of it being linked to this other move which also involves stopping your forward dashing momentum just seemed pretty likely to me. I don't know for sure if Inkslinger's tumbling thing is even the same kind of stumbling animation we've been seeing in your GIFs, though, since we know so little about it.



Traction seems to be REALLY loose in Brawl compared to what it was in Melee. I don't have any proof, but I'm guessing that crouching out of a dash will still cause you to slide a decent distance for a lot of characters. Mario, in spite of having the lowest traction of all the characters in the demo (or close to it, at least), came almost to a dead stop with this technique. I think it might be intended more to set up exact spacing, like deliberately causing Link to stop within sword range of someone, but outside of their attack range.

I made it slow-motion so people could see it frame-by-frame and note that it had no crouching frames. I'll change it to normal speed so people can see how drastic of a stop it was and re-upload it to my web server.

 

[Magus420]

You could just begin it sooner so the attack comes out faster but at the same spot since you continue moving during its startup.

If it's possible to go directly into the turn animation it would be useful for that since you can't do that from a crouch (in melee) until you stand up. You would be able to grab/tilt/whatever behind you straight out of a run. Ink cancelling sounds like it can do just that from what I gather.

 

[0rion]

Ahhhhhh spit!! Now I have to come up and discover some new AT move whenever I get the demo of Brawl before there all snatched up and claimed by other folk around this forum! ASAP!