List of Advanced Techniques - Confirmed/Disconfirmed (With sources)

[Metà]

Directional air dodge:

Keep in mind all of these are 10 fps.

I think that's just momentum air-dodging. If you notice, he double jumps right before air-dodging, so he has all the momentum from that jump.

I'm scared ;_; I always loved directional air-dodging, even before I learned wavedashing/wavelanding.

 

[Kryptonite X]

I think that's just momentum air-dodging. If you notice, he double jumps right before air-dodging, so he has all the momentum from that jump.

I'm scared ;_; I always loved directional air-dodging, even before I learned wavedashing/wavelanding.

Yeah it's proven that it's momentum dodging, look on the previous page(or above, don't know what your settings are.) and watch the same clip in high def, full motion, with more FPS describing the whole motion frame by frame.


Actually, why don't I just post the pic :D

 

[Salaad]

**** Super Scrub Brothers Brawl.

ROFL! That's good..

 

[Kittah4]

It boggles my mind to learn that people are so frustrated that they probably won't be able to slam themselves into the floor and scoot around like that. Brawl is not Melee. There will always be a disparity between good and bad players, super-advanced techniques or not. If anything, the decreased lag of aerials and the mobility in the air increasing insures that timing and spacing are even more important than ever, and you can be on the offense longer, and more precise attacks and defenses will be rewarded.

Touting a technique that "seperates" you from the "casual" crowd is a rather poor mentality, as this isn't a standard fighting game where mashing a select string of buttons will ensure you the win in most situations. This isn't Guilty Gear XX or Street Fighter III with their bursts and parries and the like. We should all be dealt the same hand, and the better players should be able to do things faster and better. But the best techiniques should be easy to do and hard to master. Wavedashing requires you to consistently hit an analog button in a certian fraction of a second. In that respect it's almost like False Roman Canceling in Guilty Gear, though admittedly much less complex or precise. Sakurai has stated that he feels Smash's controls are simple, and this apparent removal of traditional Wavedashing looks to be a hint towards that philosophy.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

**** Super Scrub Brothers Brawl.

Hey Emblem Lord...


STUFF IT!!!

 

[NES n00b]

Hey Emblem Lord...


STUFF IT!!!

I bet you don't know who Emblem Lord is. lol

Anyways, you got to understand. This game is looking to have less and less depth and no strawmens about stop crying about wavedash people, there is other things. No directional airdodging, auto edge grabbing, auto tethering, things made to look pretty with no function or "too" much function if you know what I mean, etc. I know casuals wouldn't mind about these things, but what about the tourney players? Of course there is no sympathy for us horrible competitive players but common. You guys can't see why we don't like how it is looking so far.

 

[M.K]

Whatever, I've seen this dang video multiple times, yet I can't seem to find the Footstool Jump in the Samus vs. Mario Video, can someone explain when in the match it happens?

Also, I don't see how people think directional air dodging is out. I'm not sticking up for wavedashing, but in the original game, you could air dodge in the same place as well. Why does that prove anything? Just curious.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I'm sorry...and sorry to Emblem Lord as well

But I'm just so sick of the whining about everything!!! No one has even played the frigging game yet!!! Wait till you get the chance before you knock it. 'sides, if tourney players are as good as they say there are, these minor setbacks shouldn't be anything in their path to victory. And another thing, all you competitive players will probably find another thousand cheap/exploit/glitch/gimmicks/whatever that will propel you further on your way to the top.

So please, stop the whining.

 

[Xenesis]

It's just obvious that Sakurai doesn't want to push TECHNICAL skill.

 

[Kittah4]

I don't see where the professional players are getting off complaining yet. Game's STILL in demo form after all. There will always be frames to count, combos to learn, and your reflexes can always be honed. If you're really good, I don't see why you need some sort of "advanced technique" to distinguish yourself from a n00b asking to get owned. It's like asking for another type of piece in chess that your opponent doesn't have. You and your opponent must be given the same tools, and the tools must have simple instructions, and it is the skill and wisdom with which you use them that will show consistency in winning.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Man, I knew this was going to happen. WDing is removed and a few things have changed from Melee and next thing you know, everyone and their brother is throwing a fit. Dear God, the game isn't even out yet and people are already renouncing it.

I wish people would have a little faith.

 

[Xengri]

I can sympathize with the wavedashers now (seeing as how my directional air dodge is gone).

But I can't see the whole now it will be to shallow for it to be competitive thing.

Don't get me wrong, I would hate for all advance techs to be removed and none to be replaced with new ones. But in the most extreme of situations (highly doubting it will get this bad) if Brawls fighting was reduced to just jump/roll/shield and attack, the use to be advance players could still beat the masses of smash. If there were no advance techs for anyone to use ( again doubting it), the player that is more skilled will still end up winning.

 

[NES n00b]

I'm sorry...and sorry to Emblem Lord as well

But I'm just so sick of the whining about everything!!! No one has even played the frigging game yet!!! Wait till you get the chance before you knock it. 'sides, if tourney players are as good as they say there are, these minor setbacks shouldn't be anything in their path to victory. And another thing, all you competitive players will probably find another thousand cheap/exploit/glitch/gimmicks/whatever that will propel you further on your way to the top.

So please, stop the whining.

Yeah, I hate whining, too. But heck, both sides whine just as much.

It's just obvious that Sakurai doesn't want to push TECHNICAL skill.

He doesn't want to push that much mindgame skill either. If I was Samus, I couldn't grapple on to the lower part of the stage and then use the jump cancel and get over my opponent. I will always have to grab the ledge. If this is true, then someone will always edgehog the edge since if I am anywhere near it I will have to grab it. This limits options for both opponents therefore less "mindgame" skills, too.

The less USABLE options = the less depth. Less options are no fun.

Edit: I am pretty sure the game will be reduced to moveset knoweldge and tricks (less tricks at that due to "auto" everything) and character stats. No universal techs. The broken characters will be extremely broken while the trash will be Mewtwo without wavedash.

 

[SonicZeroX]

I don't see where the professional players are getting off complaining yet. Game's STILL in demo form after all. There will always be frames to count, combos to learn, and your reflexes can always be honed. If you're really good, I don't see why you need some sort of "advanced technique" to distinguish yourself from a n00b asking to get owned. It's like asking for another type of piece in chess that your opponent doesn't have. You and your opponent must be given the same tools, and the tools must have simple instructions, and it is the skill and wisdom with which you use them that will show consistency in winning.

QFT

Spoiler

asdf.fdsa.asdfdsa.

 

[Kryptonite X]

**** Super Scrub Brothers Brawl.

Stage 2 : Anger

 

[Lickuid]

GameSpot's Media Summit 2007 Gamplay Demo, the CPU Mario does an uTilt at 01:21 and recovers very quickly. This means that the computer can now L-Cancel or...

Correct me if I'm wrong but... You don't L-Cancel tilts. Only aerial attacks that involve the "A" Button. I see that some people think that L-Cancels weren't intentional but in SSB there was Z-Cancel. Why would they remove it?

 

[Hydde]

Geez... lets see what we can do with this new mechanic!!

 

[Xenesis]

Well, in SSB the Z-Cancel removed all of the lag...so in Melee, they obviously 'fixed' it.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

In Melee, L-canceling only refers to A-button aerial attacks as they hit the ground. Aerial B-button moves cannot be L-canceled. Anything on the ground cannot be L-canceled. If Brawl features the ability to L-cancel any move, that's gonna be weeeeeeeeeeeeeird...

 

[greenblob]

It boggles my mind to learn that people are so frustrated that they probably won't be able to slam themselves into the floor and scoot around like that. Brawl is not Melee. There will always be a disparity between good and bad players, super-advanced techniques or not. If anything, the decreased lag of aerials and the mobility in the air increasing insures that timing and spacing are even more important than ever, and you can be on the offense longer, and more precise attacks and defenses will be rewarded.

Touting a technique that "seperates" you from the "casual" crowd is a rather poor mentality, as this isn't a standard fighting game where mashing a select string of buttons will ensure you the win in most situations. This isn't Guilty Gear XX or Street Fighter III with their bursts and parries and the like. We should all be dealt the same hand, and the better players should be able to do things faster and better. But the best techiniques should be easy to do and hard to master. Wavedashing requires you to consistently hit an analog button in a certian fraction of a second. In that respect it's almost like False Roman Canceling in Guilty Gear, though admittedly much less complex or precise. Sakurai has stated that he feels Smash's controls are simple, and this apparent removal of traditional Wavedashing looks to be a hint towards that philosophy.

Most would consider Wavedashing to be a classic example of the "easy to learn, hard to master" technique.

Anyway, as long as I get to do my long, elaborate combos across the stage, I'll be happy.

 

[Hydde]

Actually.... lets hope the lag of tech skills dont ruin the game.

I have to admit the in most matches against unknown and good players, i won because of my knowledge oftech skills instead of mindgames.

This new method will encourage players to play more mindgames and less tech skills but anyways i hope this game doesnt get too easy and at least leave some space to discover new and hard to learn techniques for players that dedicate time to master them and then own.

If WD was an unbalace... well then. But please dont simplify this game to be extremely easy . It would ruin the great depth melee had (even with its umbalance and all the other things)

 

[ShortFuse]

Correct me if I'm wrong but... You don't L-Cancel tilts. Only aerial attacks that involve the "A" Button. I see that some people think that L-Cancels weren't intentional but in SSB there was Z-Cancel. Why would they remove it?

you're correct. you don't cancel tilts, you cancel airs. typo uTilt should be uAir. will fix. thank you. guy's it's okay to get off topic every once in a while we're straying too much right now

 

[Chromeless]

It boggles my mind to learn that people are so frustrated that they probably won't be able to slam themselves into the floor and scoot around like that. Brawl is not Melee. There will always be a disparity between good and bad players, super-advanced techniques or not. If anything, the decreased lag of aerials and the mobility in the air increasing insures that timing and spacing are even more important than ever, and you can be on the offense longer, and more precise attacks and defenses will be rewarded.

Touting a technique that "seperates" you from the "casual" crowd is a rather poor mentality, as this isn't a standard fighting game where mashing a select string of buttons will ensure you the win in most situations. This isn't Guilty Gear XX or Street Fighter III with their bursts and parries and the like. We should all be dealt the same hand, and the better players should be able to do things faster and better. But the best techiniques should be easy to do and hard to master. Wavedashing requires you to consistently hit an analog button in a certian fraction of a second. In that respect it's almost like False Roman Canceling in Guilty Gear, though admittedly much less complex or precise. Sakurai has stated that he feels Smash's controls are simple, and this apparent removal of traditional Wavedashing looks to be a hint towards that philosophy.

And you know what, I agree with that philosophy, Smash ought to be simple to control and I commend any efforts to enforce this concept. However, this has nothing to do with why I believe WDing is an essentual part of the game, the technicality of WDing is in every possible way irrelivent to the function of WDing, which is what is really important.

WDing matters because it provides a safe tactical way to avoid jump ins. Without WDing the game still takes skill, but that fact is completly irrelivent to the strategic effect it will likely have on gameplay. With WDing gone, the game is often reduced to "hopping up and down on the spot" because there is no longer an effective way to fine control your spacing. It is this tactical aspect of WDing that makes it so great, the technicality of it is both stupid and irrelivent.

 

[thesage]

. It is this tactical aspect of WDing that makes it so great, the technicality of it is both stupid and irrelivent.

That and the fact we would have to learn how to pivot and walk at the proper times. I don't even know how to pivot.

 

[Metà]

It boggles my mind to learn that people are so frustrated that they probably won't be able to slam themselves into the floor and scoot around like that. Brawl is not Melee. There will always be a disparity between good and bad players, super-advanced techniques or not. If anything, the decreased lag of aerials and the mobility in the air increasing insures that timing and spacing are even more important than ever, and you can be on the offense longer, and more precise attacks and defenses will be rewarded.

Touting a technique that "seperates" you from the "casual" crowd is a rather poor mentality, as this isn't a standard fighting game where mashing a select string of buttons will ensure you the win in most situations. This isn't Guilty Gear XX or Street Fighter III with their bursts and parries and the like. We should all be dealt the same hand, and the better players should be able to do things faster and better. But the best techiniques should be easy to do and hard to master. Wavedashing requires you to consistently hit an analog button in a certian fraction of a second. In that respect it's almost like False Roman Canceling in Guilty Gear, though admittedly much less complex or precise. Sakurai has stated that he feels Smash's controls are simple, and this apparent removal of traditional Wavedashing looks to be a hint towards that philosophy.

How does momentum dodging simplify anything? It just gives you less options in the air, and IMO that's not a good thing. It's not just the removal of wavedashing that bugs me, because I loved the directional air-dodging long before I even knew about wavedashing.

 

[ShortFuse]

How does momentum dodging simplify anything? It just gives you less options in the air, and IMO that's not a good thing. It's not just the removal of wavedashing that bugs me, because I loved the directional air-dodging long before I even knew about wavedashing.

Sakurai was concerned about gameplay in the air. the new air-dodge is just invincibilty frames + an animation. look at marth vs fox/falco. marth can consistenly air juggle you to death. think any spammed juggling. try getting back down against an utilt'ing marth with sheik.

the new air dodge might allow you to fastfall and dodge past your opponent into roll. it's very likely that you will be able to dodge more than once per airtime. this is my speculation, i have no proof.

 

[BentoBox]

You can now jump after air dodging => more options! Why do people insist on bringing out the negative?

 

[Andrew Ott]

Ok, so it looks like airdodge no longer affects trajectory at all, just gives you invincibility frames during your jump. If you can jump after it, that means it can probably be jump cancelled. I expect it to only by able to be done once.

Also, anyone that wavedashes habitually will have habits to break. I mean, if I dash in close to a Fox, and he charges an up-smash, I have the wavedash backwards instinct. What else are you going to do, jump? Roll back? Shield then be stuck in his range? Meh. I'll accept the "it's a different game" thing for now.

Also, about the footstool hop/quick jump thingy:

From what we've seen, I think the "Samus on Sonic" FSJ is the first we've seen done on a grounded opponent yes? So probably, it sends you much higher. Also, it doesn't change their movement at all (almost like Mario's Cape). So this fact combined with the fact that Spindash charging PROBABLY has invinicibility, or at least "no flinch" frames, it's pretty much self explanatory, I guess.

 

[red stone]

Ok, so it looks like airdodge no longer affects trajectory at all, just gives you invincibility frames during your jump. If you can jump after it, that means it can probably be jump cancelled. I expect it to only by able to be done once.

Also, anyone that wavedashes habitually will have habits to break. I mean, if I dash in close to a Fox, and he charges an up-smash, I have the wavedash backwards instinct. What else are you going to do, jump? Roll back? Shield then be stuck in his range? Meh. I'll accept the "it's a different game" thing for now.

Also, about the footstool hop/quick jump thingy:

From what we've seen, I think the "Samus on Sonic" FSJ is the first we've seen done on a grounded opponent yes? So probably, it sends you much higher. Also, it doesn't change their movement at all (almost like Mario's Cape). So this fact combined with the fact that Spindash charging PROBABLY has invinicibility frames, it's pretty much self explanatory, I guess.

i don't know any good players who wavedash habitually. usually the top players keep their options open and know exactly what movement they need at a certain time. i don't think breaking a habit like that would take more than 10 minutes

 

[Crispy4001]

I don't understand why anyone would be happy with the gimped air-dodge we have now.

Sometimes I get the impression that people are here just to **** on the competitive player. You know, The kind of Smash player who cares more about Brawl catering to his stance in the debate than how the actual game turns out.

 

[Ryota]

edit: forget my post >.>

 

[ShortFuse]

From what we've seen, I think the "Samus on Sonic" FSJ is the first we've seen done on a grounded opponent yes? So probably, it sends you much higher. Also, it doesn't change their movement at all (almost like Mario's Cape). So this fact combined with the fact that Spindash charging PROBABLY has invinicibility, or at least "no flinch" frames, it's pretty much self explanatory, I guess.

read the post i said about why it's not a normal FSJ. and we have seen it before on grounded characters. there's a picture of yoshi doing it to wario. wario gets stretchy but it affects him. the most i examine, the more i think it's a glitch (not FSJ)

i'm a good wavedasher with marth. there's no more i can improve with it. i realized when watching some recorded videos i just use it for retreating, WD back into tipper, surprising into c-stick tipper, and to adjust my dashdancing/spacing. other than that, i don't use it (not even to edge grab, i use back+B in midair) and i've been wavedashing for years now. it's really not that important and i near never wavedash with link and very rarely with sheik. l-cancel is much more important and dashdancing, personally. if down cancel and dashdancing are in, i have littlle complaints. i'd have to see about the new air-dodge. i'm sure i'll incorporate it somewhere. i never triangle hopped much anyway

 

[ShortFuse]

I don't understand why anyone would be happy with the gimped air-dodge we have now.

Sometimes I get the impression that people are here just to **** on the competitive player. You know, The kind of Smash player who cares more about Brawl catering to his stance in the debate than how the actual game turns out.

I have a couple of friends who I play who aren't technical. They have great midgames and know how to do the advanced moves (wavedash, l-cancel, jump grab) but don't have the dexterity to do it. brawl will probably make the games much more intense

i've gotten much better myself this past year. i met a smash player a year ago and he plays falco. he was well ranked, #9, at a pretty big tournament. he always beats me but he tells me, i have amazing spacing and great strategy. i just lack the technical aspect. there's many times when i play him when he's like "you could have killed me there!" and i'd say "I know but i l-cancelled at the wrong time." when i do it right, he's amazed. though he always beats me, he loves to play because he has to really be on edge. i've gotten better and i think i can do much better against him now (he moved so i can't tell). but i know what my friends feel like. i hope the faster recovery of attacks and nerfed wavedashing will bridge the gap and makes the game more about playstyle (metagame) and less about quick fingers.

and yes this new air dodge will take getting used to. don't you remember how useless it new it seemed when it came out in melee? i will put my faith into sakurai but man... i hope it's better when taking into consideration the final, overall package.

 

[BentoBox]

I don't understand why anyone would be happy with the gimped air-dodge we have now.

Sometimes I get the impression that people are here just to **** on the competitive player. You know, The kind of Smash player who cares more about Brawl catering to his stance in the debate than how the actual game turns out.

I like the idea behind momentum air dodging because it does add a more realistic approach to the game. And because it actually does feel right.

And it is very fun to **** on the competitive players when they can't seem to take a game for what it is. I welcome change. I welcome a new game. To see all these people crying over a technique that won't carry over between too different games really makes me laugh. I only care about Brawl being a game that I can enjoy with friends and on the competitive level. WDing or not, I'll have my share of fun. WDing or not, there will still be competition around the world. SSBB comes with its fair share of new techniques, but of course, you can keep dismissing them and mourn over WDing some more. Should we care?
Who's going to force you to play Brawl anyways? You guys whine and whine, you guys **** on players who actually like how Brawl turned out, who stand by Sakurai's opinions... news flash: SSBM's not going anywhere.

Fact is, you're still going to buy the game no matter what happens.

Shortfuse brings up an exciting point too. In the end, more accessibility = more fun for all of us. You can stay in your corner if you wish to.

Just deal with it. Leaving for a couple days is always an option. You don't have to put up with it.

Guess who it is I'm quoting.

 

[Ixninjax]

unfortunately the removal of wavedashing will most likely not bridge the gap between casual and advanced players. Although going to tourneys will

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

unfortunately the removal of wavedashing will most likely not bridge the gap between casual and advanced players. Although going to tourneys will

... Going to tournaments turns casual players into advanced players... >_>

 

[Ixninjax]

lolz, well if they want to bridge the gap then what choice do they have?

 

[ShortFuse]

lolz, well if they want to bridge the gap then what choice do they have?

it's not really briding the gap. the gap is there... they're just trying to jump to the other side. players don't bridge games, the game designers do.

 

[Itakio]

I think the fast-jump is actually Samus doing a footstool hop off of Sonic, who doesn't seem to be affected because he's doing something and he's on ground.

 

[ShortFuse]

I think the fast-jump is actually Samus doing a footstool hop off of Sonic, who doesn't seem to be affected because he's doing something and he's on ground.

click the link on the first post under Fast-Jump. somebody just said the same thing 8 posts ago.

also, look what's supposed to happen when you do it with somebody who's on the ground.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/technique03.html