List of Advanced Techniques - Confirmed/Disconfirmed (With sources)

[ShortFuse]

Notice: If you are going to dispute anything, do not try to dispute without first watching the highest quality versions first. If you're watching off YouTube and "not seeing it" or "think you saw something" your argument won't be included in this post.

New Brawl Tactics

Trip
Descripton: Something about falling over while dash dancing wrong. I need to know what to put here
Confirmed but more information needed

• Zauron made a GIF of this weird rolling animation from Yoshi. Without being able to play the game we let it go for a while.
• At E for All Ink discovered how to make this work. It has to deal with dash dancing. The input is Dash to Pivot to Trip. This method is called Ink Dropping.
• The move can be cancelled (Trip Cancel)
• It can be done from Idle and while facing the opposite direction. So far, no one knows the input

Dash Brake / Braking
Unconfirmed

• Wyvern found something interesting. Look at http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26688.html at 01:35. Mario is running full-speed and "brakes" to fSmash Kirby.

Foot-stool Hop
Confirmed

• smashbros.com
• Samus vs Mario video confirms that a Footstool Hop doesn't inflict damage (percentage)

Fast-Jump
Unconfirmed

• Gamespot's Media Summit 2007 Interview at 02:35. Samus is trying to break the Smash Ball. She jumps, fast-jumps and then uAir to finally break it. Samus does a second jump at very high speed. It could be just like fastfall but the opposite where you jump at peak instead of pressing down. On the high quality version of the video, it's obvious the jump is much faster. It might be a demo glitch. Some people are claiming this is a FootStool Jump. Read: http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3068235&postcount=309

Edge-Snap
Confirmed
Description: This is when the character will snap to the edge where he would normally overshoot it or isn't facing the direction of the ledge.

• GameSpot's Media Summit 2007 Gamplay Demo at 06:06, Link uses his UP+B to recover and grabs the edge when he really should have overshot it.
• E for All attendees confirmed this.

Jump after Air Dodge
Confirmed

• According to a journalist on Destructoid, he claims that you are now able to jump even though you have already done an air dodge. He knows the Melee rules where Air Dodge incapacitates your player but says it's different in Brawl. http://www.destructoid.com/hands-on-with-super-smash-bros-brawl-48983.phtml
  "A few gameplay elements have changed as well. For instance, if you do a dodge in the air, you can still do a jump afterwards. In Melee, if you did midair dodge, you couldn't recover until you landed on the ground. Another change is the fact that you can catch items that are thrown at you."
• E for All attendees confirmed this.

Momentum Air-Dodge
Confirmed
Description: All the directional air-dodges are not really directional but are based on the previous momentum of the character on screen.

• In the MTV Demonstration Video Part 2 at 1:50. Look at Diddy Kong. He's DI'ing to the right. This means he's pressing right on the control stick. Then he dodges, but he goes in the same momentum as he always was, there is no air-dodge push to the right. Since there is no increase in speed from his dodge, this will make wavedashing impossible, since there would be no "push" which is necessary for the character to slide across the ground.
• E for All attendees confirmed this.
• In the MTV Demonstration Video Part 1 at 2:01 Link does a downward airdodge. Look at the player's hands. He presses down to make Link dodge down. It could be the case that it was just a force of habit of his and it press down did nothing.

General Tactics

Classic Tactics

Rolling
Confirmed

• http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/basic06.html

Ground Dodge
Confirmed

• http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/basic06.html

Teching
Confirmed

• It's seen a couple of times. Samus does it on BattleField once. I forgot where.
• E for All attendees confirmed this.

Powershielding
Confirmed

• I forgot, but some CPU vs Bowser, the CPU powershields Bowser's Flame breath

Mid-air Item Grab
Confirmed

• GameVideos' Sonic vs Link at 00:31. Sonic grabs a Fan.
• IGN's Delfino Plaza. Ike grabs Fire Flower
• E for All attendees confirmed this. They also state it's easier to pull off.

Stationary Air-Dodge
Disconfirmed

• See Momentum Air-Dodge

Directional Air-Dodge
Disconfirmed

• See Momentum Air-Dodge

C-Stick:
Confirmed

• http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/12/joystiq-hands-on-super-smash-bros-brawl-wii/
  "With that pad, Brawl plays almost the same as on Smash Bros. the GameCube. (Note that GameCube controllers will also work with Brawl natively.) I tried the right analog-stick for smash attacks and began to appreciate the chaotic pace."
• E for All attendees confirmed this. There are a few more things stated such as being able to use tilts by pressing the direction with the control stick and press the C-Stick. Also, Smash attacks can be charged without having to press Z.

Short hop
Confirmed
[*]E for All attendees confirmed this. This is not possible on WiiMote setup.

Fast-fall
Confirmed

• GameVideo's Sonic vs Link fight at 00:35. If you watch all the other drops, you see that one is significantly faster than the rest.
• In IGN's Delfino Plaza video, it appears Ike fast falls after a back flip right after Pit starts his Final Smash. Ike's dAir never seemed to propel him down start quick before.

Crouch-Cancel
Confirmed

• I haven't any video for this one. There's said to be a point where MetaKnight does it. I've to find that video
• E for All attendees confirmed this.

Dash-Dancing
Confirmed

• E for All attendees confirmed this. It's supposedly easier to pull off and needed for Ink Drop

Jump-Cancel Grab
Confirmed but more proof needed

• Some E for All attendees have said this is in but we need more concrete information.

Double Jump Cancelling
Unconfirmed

• Not sure. I think E for All attendees said Yoshi's was out but I'm not sure if it's character specific.

L-Cancel
Unconfirmed

• Gamevideo's Link vs Sonic video. Link's first fAir of the match looks L-Cancelled. After watching more, his fAir recovery might have just been increased in speed.
• GameSpot's Media Summit 2007 Gamplay Demo, the CPU Mario does an uTilt at 01:21 and recovers very quickly. This means that the computer can now L-Cancel or...
• There's also the possibility all L-Cancel is "automatic". In other words all recovery time from air attacks has been decreased.
• Mixed things from E for All attendees. Most say it's out. Some say it's still in.

Wavedashing
Disconfirmed

• See Momentum Air-Dodge

Wavelanding
Confirmed but more information needed

• Though Waveashing is disconfirmed, wavelanding is not completely dependent on directional air-dodge. There are other things that can cause you to slide like a Glide hitting the ground diagonally. See MetaKnight's WaveDash
• E for All attendees say this is possible but very little detail as of yet.

Respawn Invincibility
Confirmed

• It's in but the difference from Melee is that the number of invulnerable frames starts being counted while you're on the floating platform. If you take too long to return to battle, there will be no invulnerable frames. Whether attacking cancels invincibility frames has yet to be confirmed/disconfirmed.

Character Specific
Fox Jump-Cancel from Shine
Confirmed but more proof needed

• People have said that you can jump cancel, only if you are holding down + B. once you let go, he'll have a lag and you'll have to wait until the animation is done.

Fox Illusion Cancel
Confirmed

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuZsxnQiCyo at 00:24. He cancels right in front of peach

MetaKnight's WaveLand + WaveDash
Unconfirmed

• There are a few videos where MetaKnight glides very closely to the ground. As he hits the ground, he is able to WaveLand. If the glide used quickly at low altitudes via DJC (Double Jump-Cancelled) like with Peach, it would work just like a WaveDash. Of course, Double Jump Cancelling would have to be confirmed first.

Yoshi's Double-Jump Cancel
Disconfirmed

• It's seen in of the pre E for All videos of Yoshi vs Pit
• E for All attendees disconfirmed this.

Sources
GameVideos - Sonic vs Link
Streaming: http://www.gamevideos.com/video/watch?video=15372&largeFormat=wmv
Direct: http://www.gamevideos.com/download?...SmashBrosBrawlSonicVsLinkGameplay_640x360.wmv

GameVideos - Diddy Kong's Final Smash
Streaming: http://www.gamevideos.com/video/watch?video=15401&largeFormat=wmv
Direcy: http://www.gamevideos.com/download?.../15401/gv.com.SSBBDiddyRocketPack_640x360.wmv

GameSpot - Media Summit 2007 Interview
Streaming: http://www.gamespot.com/video/92851...os-brawl-nintendo-media-summit-2007-interview
Direct: http://download2.gamespot.com/d4/gsc/2007/10/169_ssbb_wii_di_101107_hr.mp4

GameSpot - Media Summit 2007 Gamplay Demo
Streaming: http://www.gamespot.com/video/92851...rawl-nintendo-media-summit-2007-gameplay-demo
Direct:http://download2.gamespot.com/d4/gsc/2007/10/169_smashbrosbrawl_vf_01_wii_101107_hr.mp4

GamePro Gameplay Trailer
Streaming: http://www.gamepro.com/video/player.cfm?vid=116140

MTV Mutiplayer's Demonstration Video Part 1
Streaming: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2007...ay-super-smash-bros-brawl-using-the-wii-mote/

MTV Mutiplayer's Demonstration Video Part 2
Streaming: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2007...ash-bros-brawl”-using-the-classic-controller/

 

[h1roshi]

just for wait for e for all when some real smashers try to wavedash and l cancel. then we will get the goods...peace

-hiroshi

 

[raphtmarqui]

Bozon on IGN said he tried and couldnt wavedash tho. I know hes not expert but still...its not looking too good.

 

[Katy Parry]

The short hop is in the video "Sonic vs. Link". Between the first 7-10 seconds, watch Link.

 

[Jx31]

I saw a Link fast fall a fair in one of these videos, I'll look for it.

 

[Ban Heim]

Isn't c-sticking confirmed? Here's the quote from yesterday's update:

Oh, yes. And for those of you who come to play, please remember—you tap the Control Stick to do Smash attacks.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm sure he's talking about the c-stick.

 

[Jx31]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tDmxlJ70Tn8 In this vid you can see Link fast falling a fair at 00:35.

 

[SlayerOfMe]

Crouch cancel in the Castle Siege video around 1:09. Diddy crouch cancels Meta-Knight's Down Smash

 

[CartooN]

Not saying your wrong or anything but;

Those stating that it must be in because of the physics engine, this isn't true. If that were the case, you would be able to wavedash up a wall.

I dont see how that shows that wavedashing isnt physics. The ground and a wall have two completely diffrent types of game physics anyway. If anything, wouldnt this prove wavedashing is to do with the game engine even more?

EDIT: Please dont turn this into a wavedash vs non-wavedash topic mind xD

 

[blayde_axel]

Directional air dodge is confirmed, also. CPU Mario does it in a fight between him and Samus. Check the Gamespot Demo.

 

[ShortFuse]

Thanks guys. I'll add your input. The bozon is the IGN blogger i was talking about. note that he said that he couldn't wavedash in melee. again, if he couldn't in melee, his inability to do it in brawl means nothing. I'll note that the wavedashing note is my own opinion.

 

[Crispy4001]

GIF's to back these up. Might want to download these yourselves in case we get an imageshack frog. Took these at 10 frames per second (best I could do):

Fast Fall

Footstool Hop

Hold Back After Roll Ledge Guard? (performed by CPU, sorry that the roll doesn't show up so well)

Interesting Sonic Ledge grab:

Diddy's Forward-B?

Diddy up-B to Forward-B?

Link Grabbing Ledge on the way up from Up-B:

Link Tether Recovery:

Attack-Cancel:

Interesting Ledge Recovery by Yoshi:

Interesting Roll by Yoshi ... transitioning into crawling and back?

Mario Ground recovery from air, suspected to be a landing from using back-air A, but also looks characteristic of a wavelanding:

(frame by frame comparison with the back-air)

Fast-Jump?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

OMG, great pictures. This is definitely an interesting thread... WD for brawl

 

[ShortFuse]

Hold Back After Roll Ledge Guard? (performed by CPU, sorry that the roll doesn't show up so well)

The stage tilts clockwise and it throws sonic off balance. he falls to catches the ledge. it probably wouldn't happen in a stationary level. good catch though.

fastfall example is perfect. if imgbay supports gif, i'll upload it there.

 

[5@/\/\U5]

as blayde said, directional air dodge confirmed. CPU mario does it. It's not drastic, but Mario's directional air-dodges never were.

 

[Crispy4001]

The stage tilts clockwise and it throws sonic off balance. he falls to catches the ledge. it probably wouldn't happen in a stationary level. good catch though.

fastfall example is perfect. if imgbay supports gif, i'll upload it there.

Could be. I just found it interesting how he moved backwards off the ledge while still facing forwards.


Is that possible in Melee on Coneria? Think I'll go try it.

 

[ShortFuse]

let me know when in the mario vs samus match he air dodges. i can't find it.

 

[Dacvak]

As far as rolling off an edge to edge-guard, I think that small Sonic clip is a rare case. His shield gets hit, so maybe he still has momentum after he rolls. I remember (in the GameSpot video, I think) Samus rolling backwards and was stopped by the edge, like in Melee.

I doubt they'd make edge-guarding that easy, but if they did, Wavedashes would have one less use.

~Dac

 

[Crispy4001]

Alright just tired it on the slanted parts of Coneria and Venom.


It's simply impossible to do in Melee. In order to fall off a ledge after a roll, you HAVE to turn around. Holding backwards does not cleanly transition you to the ledge like Sonic does in the GIF: (here it is again)

The only way to do the same sort of thing in Melee is to wavedash off the ledge.



So, unless this is some sort of AI-perfect exploit (which it possibly could be), I think we're looking at a new technique.

 

[simplicityho]

Looks like he's fast falling a short hop backwards to me.

 

[Crispy4001]

As far as rolling off an edge to edge-guard, I think that small Sonic clip is a rare case. His shield gets hit, so maybe he still has momentum after he rolls. I remember (in the GameSpot video, I think) Samus rolling backwards and was stopped by the edge, like in Melee.

I doubt they'd make edge-guarding that easy, but if they did, Wavedashes would have one less use.

~Dac

He isn't sheild-hit when he pulls this off, so there's no backwards momentum to drive him.


You can check for yourself on the Gamespot video at approximately 4:55.

 

[Crispy4001]

Looks like he's fast falling a short hop backwards to me.

Watch the video itself. It looks more akin to pressing back when you're grabbing the ledge In Melee than a short hop.

 

[Nintendude]

Jump-canceling dashes into attacks was confirmed in the 2nd trailer. You can see Link dash right into an up-B on the ground on the Yoshi stage.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

Confirmed: Able to grab items in the air
Source: Link Vs Sonic on Smashvile

 

[ShortFuse]

i've added a new one... Fast-Jump... check it out.

found mario's air dodge. gamespot has the whole video. gamevideos cuts 40 seconds out

 

[Crispy4001]

One more for you guys to chew over. Up-B to wall jump:

Makes me wonder, what are the chances that someone could have pulled this off in the conference, with no experience with Brawl (and likely little experience with Melee ) ?

My guess is that they're making Walljumping easier this time around.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Seems like they are making it so you can act after using an up B. Remember guys in the trailer Sonic did a dair after his spring jump.

 

[Zauron]

Also, it appears sweetspotting a ledge is way easier now, as you can grab it on the way UP! Check 6:06 in the 7 minute video from Gamespot and you'll see Link do an Up+B and sweetspot the ledge on the way up - in Melee he would have flown up past the top of the ledge and had to land on it or aim to fall back past the ledge and catch it.

In the Sonic VS Link video in Smashville from IGN, we also see that Link's grapple recovery is WAY easy to do now. Link uses it at 0:35 while falling away from the ledge and it just instantly sweet-spots for him - in Melee the chain would have gone below the stage. I know that was mentioned on the Dojo but its pretty surprising just how easy it looks to do in an actual video.

 

[Zauron]

Seems like they are making it so you can act after using an up B. Remember guys in the trailer Sonic did a dair after his spring jump.

Yeah, except that we've only seen Sonic do that. I can confirm that Mario, Samus, and Link at least go into the same disabled state after an Up+B that they did before (blink and fall helplessly). Sonic does not. Not sure if Diddy does or not, but its possible that an Up+B disables most characters still yet in that disabled state they can still do some things like wall jumps and perhaps footstool jumps.

 

[Samochan]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zfxo4ThurUw

Does anyone else see a jc shine here possibly at 1:54 mark against DK? Better quality of this vid would be nice. :/ Also, some weird run into edgehog thingy from peach at 3:19-3:21.

Edit: Lol shinespike deconfirmed. Dk flies up and away when hit by Fox's shine at 1:54 mark and actually does a fair out of it and moves back toward fox.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zfxo4ThurUw

Does anyone else see a jc shine here possibly at 1:54 mark against DK? Better quality of this vid would be nice. :/ Also, some weird run into edgehog thingy from peach at 3:19-3:21.

I think Fox was simply hit while doing shine and was knocked out of it. I saw the peach thing and have no idea what it is.

 

[Samochan]

I think Fox was simply hit while doing shine and was knocked out of it. I saw the peach thing and have no idea what it is.

But hit by what? <_> Edit: never mind, seems like shine got a heavy nerf as Dk naired him just as fox shined him and it knocked him out of it. On ssbm fox's first frame where you hit people with is invulnerable, so it would have outprioritised. Also, no shinespike. Seems like it hits diagonally up or you can actually DI the shine this time around.

 

[Crispy4001]

Shorfuse, you need to add Jump Canceled (JC) Grabbing to your advanced technique list.

 

[ShortFuse]

You won't find Jump Cancelling in the videos that exist now. Crouch Cancelling and Dash Dancing i'll put it in a bit. Guys check out that SuperJump/FastJump thing. Looks sweet!

 

[Samochan]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/116759.html

Lol Meta Ledge cancels his dash attack on the beginning. O_o

 

[Takeshi245]

Shield grabbing confirmed. Check this out and look around 5:34-5:37: www.gamespot.com/video/928518/6180868/super

 

[ShortFuse]

I'll put shield grabbing though it's obvious because it's the only way to grab with the wiimote. if i can put roll....

 

[Andrew Ott]

On the subject of the Sonic thing, that WAS possible in Melee. On Pokemon Stadium when it went into rock mode, if you went to the top left of the screen and hung on the pillar, then did a getup attack, you would go up then slide off backwards.

Looking at the picture, it looks like Sonic's getup attack is similar to Fox's low % one, in that he charges forwards then scoots backwards. This combined with the small slope of the stage/and movement in the stage's rotation probably caused this.

 

[maxpower1227]

Is it really necessary to confirm things like shielding, rolling, short hopping, fast falling, etc? Those are basic movements; I don't see how they could conceivably be removed.

I can't wait until this game is out so people will finally shut up about wavedashing. I rolled my eyes every time a commenter on IGN asked about wavedashing. As if the press members who got to play the game for all of a few minutes were going to say "ok hang on guys, don't attack me for a few minutes. I just GOTTA see if wavedashing is in the game!" There are more important things to get impressions of, like the overall feel of the game.

 

[paOol]

One more for you guys to chew over. Up-B to wall jump:

Makes me wonder, what are the chances that someone could have pulled this off in the conference, with no experience with Brawl (and likely little experience with Melee ) ?

My guess is that they're making Walljumping easier this time around.

actually, it looks like diddy is using Up+B , and THEN wall jumping.
his up+b is when he uses the barrels as jets (the lil explosion)