List of Advanced Techniques - Confirmed/Disconfirmed (With sources)

[Samochan]

About this "auto-lcancel", you know it exists in Melee too. If you land during certain frames of the attack then there is no need to L cancel.

What they meant with this auto-L-cancelign was that attacks regardles when and where they lanced cancelled themselves, which is not the case in ssbm and doesn't seem to be on case with ssbb either, but since some characters showed really lagless moves this theory was thought up. On ssbm attacks like marth's nair doesn't need to be L-cancelled since the animation ends before marth lands if you press a as soon as you leave ground, ths resulting in auto-cancel

 

[ShortFuse]

What program do you use to make GIFs from videos? I could search but I think the one you guys are using is working pretty well. I'ma go through the posts and try updating the first post.

As for the samus fastjump/superjump. it's when samus wants to get the smash ball. it's jump, fast-jump, uAir to break the Smash Ball. the time is noted in the first post. i have the high quality version and it's very obvious it's not a regular jump.

 

[SlayerOfMe]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/116759.html

In this vid I discovered a couple things:

O:18-0:20 = Sonic juggles yoshi. (Oh snaps)
0:23-0:26 = DK's down b is more combo-like then I remembered it. (Last time I played ssb/m if used on you at high percentages you were shot upward yet meta-knight has over 150% and he's getting hit 4-5 times)

Meta Knight is probably just being dumb and crouch cancelling all that.

 

[Atlus8]

I'm not convinced that Directional Air Dodge is confirmed, otherwise wavedashing would be confirmed as well.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/928518/6180852/super-smash-bros-brawl-gameplay-demo

In the vid ^^^ I did see Mario around 1:32 air dodging, but it didn't seem directional. It was more like he was air dodging through the jump in a smooth motion.

Same story here vvv

In this second vid I think we get to see Sonic's Air Dodge and it seems like the same thing as with Mario's Air Dodge. Look at Sonic at 1:23 . . . he looks like he is Air Dodging through the jump like Mario. In Melee, the Air Dodge can be done in any directional instantly. Meanwhile the Air Dodge seems to be based on the motion of your charcter in Brawl.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/92851...os-brawl-nintendo-media-summit-2007-interview

 

[MunkyMan33]

OT- Atlus I love your sig - OT

 

[Kashakunaki]

Interesting topic and very well supported with good discussion. Two thumbs up to posters and topic creator.

I'm going to be going to E for All (albeit with massive amounts of kinks) but I will be there Friday-Sunday. If anyone else is going please PM... no one is coming with me and I'd like to at least meet up with someone. I really hope I can finally meet you in person, Stryks, lol.

So, if you guys want you can compose a list of things you want to know about Brawl and PM it to me and I'll be sure to test everything. I'm going to make a documentary of my trip and post it on Google Video, too (hopefully by Monday afternoon) for everyone so they can see for themselves.

I'm also a competitive Smasher and not just some random nub, so I won't fail you. Hehe.

 

[ShortFuse]

I'm not convinced that Directional Air Dodge is confirmed, otherwise wavedashing would be confirmed as well.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/928518/6180852/super-smash-bros-brawl-gameplay-demo

In the vid ^^^ I did see Mario around 1:32 air dodging, but it didn't seem directional. It was more like he was air dodging through the jump in a smooth motion.

Same story here vvv

In this second vid I think we get to see Sonic's Air Dodge and it seems like the same thing as with Mario's Air Dodge. Look at Sonic at 1:23 . . . he looks like he is Air Dodging through the jump like Mario. In Melee, the Air Dodge can be done in any directional instantly. Meanwhile the Air Dodge seems to be based on the motion of your charcter in Brawl.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/92851...os-brawl-nintendo-media-summit-2007-interview

it was directional because if it was stationary, he would have fallen to this death, you don't have any momentum in an air dodge. try it in melee. and air dodge does not confirm wavedash. it's not hard for the programmers to disable sliding and just have you idle in mid air as you do when you hit a wall or ceiling while air-dodging. that point is already on the first post under WaveDashing

 

[Katy Parry]

Thanks guys. I'll add your input. The bozon is the IGN blogger i was talking about. note that he said that he couldn't wavedash in melee. again, if he couldn't in melee, his inability to do it in brawl means nothing. I'll note that the wavedashing note is my own opinion.

You haven't cited what I said about the short hop.

 

[Doggalina]

You can now jump after air dodging.
http://www.destructoid.com/hands-on-with-super-smash-bros-brawl-48983.phtml#comments

 

[Mama]

DK then seemingly lacked any stun from after getting hit by shine and hit by wall since he immediately recovered with an uair or something.

But after getting hit by a shine early in the vid, bowser falls down. Falling down prolly means it's techable and bowser could be waveshined in melee. Does this mean shine now falls down all characters so that even if waveshine was back in, it would mean all characters can now tech the shine and thus be able to avoid any waveshine comboes should wavedash and jc shine be in, not forgetting wallteching shinespike which peach for example, was unable to do due to not falling down from shine.

But since fox gets hit by DK's aerial it means there is no invulnerability frame on frame 1 of the shine, so it should mean harder shinespiking and the stuff since chars can intercept shine now.

Dunno if its been said yet (really long thread and I'm not done reading every post) but Fox isn't even shining DK at 1:54 he's doing a canceled illusion (which is easy to do for some nub button mashers). He does shone someone early into the match while standing.

 

[abit_rusty]

Quite unfortunate that the reviewer was a noob....

 

[Xenesis]

I'm curious. Do we know if the Powershield is back?

 

[Katy Parry]

I still can't powershield.

 

[MunkyMan33]

do we have any proof other then this guy's review that jumping after air dodge is confirmed?

 

[-Knux-]

I dunno if it's been pointed out but has anyone noticed that Fox can still activate his Final Smash after using Fox Illusion on the Bridge of Eldin stage in the trailer that Sakurai gave us Wednesday? A smash ball is floating across the gap in the stage. Fox notices it and uses Fox Illusion to his left. He hits it and then the Landmaster is immediately pulled up. Should he be able to use the special attack button AFTER using his Illusion attack or is that one of the features of the smash ball? Just speculating.

 

[Ban Heim]

He actually died and came back and used it. Either that or it's a different time of the match where he used it. You can tell because DK's damage changes.

 

[-Knux-]

He actually died and came back and used it. Either that or it's a different time of the match where he used it. You can tell because DK's damage changes.

Ahh... You're right. DK's damage went from 56% to 37%. **** Sakurai trying to fool me. XDD DECEPTION!!!

 

[Atlus8]

it was directional because if it was stationary, he would have fallen to this death, you don't have any momentum in an air dodge. try it in melee. and air dodge does not confirm wavedash. it's not hard for the programmers to disable sliding and just have you idle in mid air as you do when you hit a wall or ceiling while air-dodging. that point is already on the first post under WaveDashing

Thanks for responding.

I'm not talking about Air Dodging, but Directional Aid Doding. Also, I know Air Dodging doesn't confirm wavedashing. Here try this in Melee with Mario: do a Directionl Aid Dodge recovery the same way the Mario in Brawl does it . . . does it look the same? Not really. The Mario in Brawl seem to have a much smoother motion than that in Melee.

Take a look at this and pay close attention to Bowser when the game clock hits 1:32-1:31 . . .

http://www.gamepro.com/nintendo/wii/games/previews/139928.shtml

looks like a waveland. How is this possible? Easy, if you paid very close attention after Bowser did the waveland you can just see several frames of him taking a step towards the left. If this was Directional Air Dodge, down/left, then odds are we would see Bowser crouching ,so it would be much easier to hold left and just waveland with the momentum.

 

[Padô]

I dont think mario's directioned air dodge is confirmed I think that air dodge direction on (1:32) was influed by the direction of the jump that was diagonaly up right

 

[Devotion]

Is it just me or in the pit vs yoshi battle on norfair around 0:15 when he kills pit and drops down it looks like he wavelands on the platform bellow him.

 

[Atlus8]

I dont think mario's directioned air dodge is confirmed I think that air dodge direction on (1:32) was influed by the direction of the jump that was diagonaly up right

Thank you! That is what I'm trying to say.

 

[mkmelee]

Interesting speculation. If only these 'professional video game reviewers' weren't so noobish, then we'd know so much more.

 

[::FalcoFTW::]

Link powershielded sonic's fireflower. (But I don't think anyone could ever use it effectively besides the CPUs) so that's ok...

 

[Ban Heim]

Is it just me or in the pit vs yoshi battle on norfair around 0:15 when he kills pit and drops down it looks like he wavelands on the platform bellow him.

Looks like he just walked to me.

You have to remember that these people don't know how to waveland. If they did it (which is very unlikely), it would be by accident. We're not going to see something like wavelanding in any of these videos until E for All unless we're very lucky and someone happens to do it on accident.

 

[Mama]

Thanks for responding.

I'm not talking about Air Dodging, but Directional Aid Doding. Also, I know Air Dodging doesn't confirm wavedashing. Here try this in Melee with Mario: do a Directionl Aid Dodge recovery the same way the Mario in Brawl does it . . . does it look the same? Not really. The Mario in Brawl seem to have a much smoother motion than that in Melee.

Take a look at this and pay close attention to Bowser when the game clock hits 1:32-1:31 . . .

http://www.gamepro.com/nintendo/wii/games/previews/139928.shtml

looks like a waveland. How is this possible? Easy, if you paid very close attention after Bowser did the waveland you can just see several frames of him taking a step towards the left. If this was Directional Air Dodge, down/left, then odds are we would see Bowser crouching ,so it would be much easier to hold left and just waveland with the momentum.

Well of course it looks smoother. If it didn't look smother than I'd be pissed at how lazy the developers are. Brawl is supposed to look smoother. I think it should be obvious that in the game demo video with Samus playing a CPU Mario that its a directed air dodge. Do a dodge in Melee without directing it. Do it again while jump in a direction but without holding the control stick when you dodge. He doesn't keep going. The air dodge stops you wherever you are. The computer knows how to move while air dodging. It really isn't that hard to just accept it.

Also a better example of wavelanding in game is the Nov 06 gameplay video toward the end watch both Wario and Metaknight. If anything can be called wave landing its that. You might need to watch it twice. At 2:10 and 2:11 Meta at the top platform Wario coming from the right side. Also a good Wave land barely has a crouch frame.

 

[ShortFuse]

I have to unconfirm the confirmation of the Stationary AirDodge. The MTV Introduction to gameplay video i was talking about has link Directional Air Dodge downwards. he even says as he's air dodging. . It's a pretty silly thing but we all 99% know stationary air dodge is in. I think I'll put the Air Dodge jump in blue. sounds cheap. You can air dodge up, jump, up+b and if your move allows it, forward+B as a recover move. but it also sounds good, you can actually air dodge when somebody is trying to kill you off the edge (like link's boot) and still jump back up to the stage. i have to add Edge-Snap where you can snap and grab the edge instead of overshooting.

 

[Vortok]

So, if you guys want you can compose a list of things you want to know about Brawl and PM it to me and I'll be sure to test everything.

Try this thread.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120062


I doubt what we've seen so far is wavelanding. Wavelanding is hard to do, until you practice it a fair amount. The chances of it happening accidentally (nevermind caught on camera multiple times) is next to nil, especially considering the caliber of player we've seen in the conference videos.


The various jumps/up B/Air dodge combination possibility is very interesting, as it'd have a large impact on many aspects of Smash.

 

[Atlus8]

Well of course it looks smoother. If it didn't look smother than I'd be pissed at how lazy the developers are. Brawl is supposed to look smoother. I think it should be obvious that in the game demo video with Samus playing a CPU Mario that its a directed air dodge. Do a dodge in Melee without directing it. Do it again while jump in a direction but without holding the control stick when you dodge. He doesn't keep going. The air dodge stops you wherever you are. The computer knows how to move while air dodging. It really isn't that hard to just accept it.

Also a better example of wavelanding in game is the Nov 06 gameplay video toward the end watch both Wario and Metaknight. If anything can be called wave landing its that. You might need to watch it twice. At 2:10 and 2:11 Meta at the top platform Wario coming from the right side. Also a good Wave land barely has a crouch frame.

We really can't judege by looking at Wario and Meta Knight since they are new characters and we have yet to try them out. (Sigh) . . . guess many things are gonna have to wait till E for All. I hope I can get in . . .

 

[ShortFuse]

check out the first post under wavedashing, it looks like mario wavelands. a very good example. stupid peanuts.

also watch peaches's speed. i think l-cancel is "automatic" like i said. it speeds up play though..

 

[ShortFuse]

Crouch cancel in the Castle Siege video around 1:09. Diddy crouch cancels Meta-Knight's Down Smash

Download the WMV. He goes for an attack (you see the white lens flare on diddy's left) when he gets hit, he tech-rolls left.

 

[Zauron]

I suggest adding something to the "New Tactics" section: Wall-jumping after an Up+B, as demonstrated by Diddy at 0:15 in the IGN video at castle siege. I think it was mentioned somewhere else in this thread too.

Also, it appears Double-Jump cancelling may be removed, since Yoshi does an air attack during his double jump in that same video and it doesn't cancel like it would have doing the same thing in melee.

Finally, just wanted to say this thread is great! I hope you can continue to update it as new tactics and changed tactics are discovered over the next few months. It should be stickied. I also appreciate the fact that its not a list of every change from Melee to Brawl, including items, stages, characters, and character-specific move changes, because that would be huge and the important details may be lost. Instead it is focused on the core mechanics of the fighting system, which affects all characters. I think you should be careful to avoid putting any character-specific things in here as it may get out of hand and muddy the core focus of the thread. Things that affect multiple characters like the double-jump cancel make sense, as you could see that as a change to the core fighting mechanics, but specific moves being changed for only a single character is too much detail for a thread like this. That's just my humble opinion though.

 

[Mama]

We really can't judege by looking at Wario and Meta Knight since they are new characters and we have yet to try them out. (Sigh) . . . guess many things are gonna have to wait till E for All. I hope I can get in . . .

I wish you luck. I'd go myself (6 hour drive from where I live >.>) but I don't drive yet (and I'm 18 with no license wth lol). And I only have one other person who can drive and she'd just complain about the money spent on gas....life's a ***** xD. I hope Ninty finds a way to make the demo available to a wider range of gamers.

 

[ShortFuse]

I suggest adding something to the "New Tactics" section: Wall-jumping after an Up+B, as demonstrated by Diddy at 0:15 in the IGN video at castle siege. I think it was mentioned somewhere else in this thread too.

yeah found that too. it might just be that he has a wall kick. but i started investigating was which characters aren't "disabled" after UP+B. Diddy Kong might be just like Sonic which is why the wall kick worked. Link and Samus flash white after their UP+B but Sonic and Diddy don't. (we already know why with sonic). it might just be character specific. you might be able to even dodge after an up+b. i want to note it but as you said, if it's character specific it might not belong here.

oh yeah and... what double jump cancel? i don't play yoshi so i don't know what that is.

 

[Atlus8]

I wish you luck. I'd go myself (6 hour drive from where I live >.>) but I don't drive yet (and I'm 18 with no license wth lol). And I only have one other person who can drive and she'd just complain about the money spent on gas....life's a ***** xD. I hope Ninty finds a way to make the demo available to a wider range of gamers.

I'am going to need luck since I'm counting on MLG's free pass to get me in. Yeah, I know, it's going to be tough . . . also, I don't have my license( I'm 19 with no license wth.) Hopefully, I get to house Isai and others for this event, if they consider it, so things will still be fun.

Also, this thread is awesome and deserves a sticky.

Edit: yeah what is Double Jump Cancel?

 

[Hazhulkhen]

If you can jump after air dodging, that suggests that dodging may not be directional at all but simply a factor of the direction you're moving in. I haven't seen an air dodge that shows someone moving in a different direction than they started in yet.

 

[thesage]

add djc'ing to char specific list.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You know there was alot of hoopla over what Sakurai meant when it was said that he wanted more emphasis on aerial combat and what tweaks he would make to it.

People were looking for huge changes.

Well, we got changes now and they aren't really huge, but they will leave a huge impact.

The physics engine has more emphasis on character floatiness it seems. Also chracters can now move after using an air dodge or an up B. Small changes but things like that will greatly alter how the game is played in a competitive setting. Air dodging in Melee is risky and alot of the time you are vulnerable to attack right afterwards. But with this new system you can still act afterwards. And there is also the footstool jump which adds to aerial combat as well.

Small changes like this that add up is what we need to be on the look out for because they will impact the game in alot of ways.

 

[Zauron]

yeah found that too. it might just be that he has a wall kick. but i started investigating was which characters aren't "disabled" after UP+B. Diddy Kong might be just like Sonic which is why the wall kick worked. Link and Samus flash white after their UP+B but Sonic and Diddy don't. (we already know why with sonic). it might just be character specific. you might be able to even dodge after an up+b. i want to note it but as you said, if it's character specific it might not belong here.

oh yeah and... what double jump cancel? i don't play yoshi so i don't know what that is.

Ahh, but later in that same video, Diddy does an Up+B in mid-air and is CLEARLY disabled and blinking. So he DID do a wall jump after being in what normally is a disabled state. He is not the same as Sonic. I think its worth noting it, even as a "not entirely confirmed" so people can look for other cases of it. Many characters can wall jump so I wouldn't call it character specific (in fact its possible that everyone can wall jump in Brawl, we don't know yet).

Double-jump cancelling is usable by characters with extra-high double-jumps like Yoshi, Ness, and MewTwo. Its been in both the N64 and Melee Smashes. You don't have to do anything special, its automatic and used by noobs all the time without realizing it, but you can do special advanced techniques if you know how to make use of it.

Basically, if they use any attack during their double-jump, all upwards movement is immediately removed, and they fall while doing the attack. This is useful for doing VERY quick airials - you can do an air attack at an even shorter height than a SHFFL by quickly tapping jump twice to immediately jump, then double-jump, then press attack to attack, making the character do an air attack while barely leaving the ground at all. It also leads to other tactics like "swing jumping" (I think that's what its called) where you jump away from your opponent, then press back+jump plus an immediate attack, making you suddenly dive down and backwards toward the opponent with a surprise attack. Without double-jump cancelling, you can't change direction that fast in a single jump, and jumping backwards would cause you to move UP which would put you out of range to do the attack quickly enough to surprise your opponent.

However, in the Castle Siege video, Yoshi does both a DAir and a FAir during a double-jump. In melee, doing those moves would make Yoshi fall while doing the attack, but in the video, Yoshi continues going upward for the full height of his double-jump while doing the attack animation. This could seriously change the game for Yoshi and all other characters that have extra-high double-jumps, even for noob players, since it was originally done presumably to make it so these characters weren't constantly jumping too high to land any air attacks at all.

 

[thesage]

DjC'ing works because the chars actually go down a little bit when thte start their second jump. The characters that can currently djc are: Ness, Metwo, Yoshi, and Peach.

 

[Zauron]

DjC'ing works because the chars actually go down a little bit when thte start their second jump. The characters that can currently djc are: Ness, Metwo, Yoshi, and Peach.

Wow, I feel dumb for never thinking it was the downwards movement that caused the DjC to be possible. I thought it was just done because the jumps are so high they figured it would be hard to land an airial without it. But perhaps this whole time it was just a bug caused by the oddity of having downward movement at the beginning of a double-jump, and now that bug has been fixed in Brawl, removing it as an advanced tactic.