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Why yes, yes I am.Are you implying input lag won't kill brawl?
Up until that point, yes.And wasn't last year's Apex the biggest turnout ever?
Then get out of the brawl boards and stop wasting your time for god's sake.Meh...... I dont care enough to do my own research.
I don't count 50 noobs entering instead of 10 noobs as a scene 'not dying'. I already pointed out some good examples. Put 2 and 2 together.>Brawl is dying
>Apex 2013 will probably have an even bigger Brawl entrant count than the last one.
No please continue.
Last I heard (earlier today, I think), it hadn't even broken 300 Brawl entrants. There were 408 entrants last year.>Brawl is dying
>Apex 2013 will probably have an even bigger Brawl entrant count than the last one.
No please continue.
just because somebody is utterly serious doesn't mean they're not trolling like tolkienBiz isn't trolling guys; we just all disagree with him. I especially know how it feels for everyone to label you as a troll, despite your utter seriousness.
....we can fix that. The bit about your preference for brawl. You know melee doesn't have 2 spontaneous frames of lag right? I don't think melee being better than brawl is an opinion. Melee is way more polished, and more fun. Its like compairing Mozart to Rebecca black.I honestly don't care about Melee vs. Brawl, I like Brawl more but it's all just opinions.
Vkrm: the Big Brother of Brawl haters....we can fix that. The bit about your preference for brawl. You know melee doesn't have 2 spontaneous frames of lag right? I don't think melee being better than brawl is an opinion. Melee is way more polished, and more fun. Its like compairing Mozart to Rebecca black.
So that planky campy nonsense is more fun than it looks? I think you can measure fun by asking yourself,You clearly have no grasp on the concept of subjectivity or opinions. Yo use words like "fun" in an objective manner as if there's a definite scale to measure it on, which there isn't, as the amount off fun that is had while doing something differentiates between people on a subject to subject basis. That's what subjective means. I really don't care if you're trolling at this point, as trolling you and serious you are identical aside from your intentions. You won't change anyone's opinion, including and especially mine, so can you please just go back to the Melee subforum where people might actually want to hear what you have to say?
I'm pretty sure there exists an exploit within the game of Brawl itself which doesn't require anything from you except an SD card with the proper codes and can load on an unhacked Wii.But if that becomes the standard, everyone would have to hack their Wiis in order to practice properly, which some people can't do (including me until about a year ago).
I know, but there are people who's computers are old and don't have SD slots.I'm pretty sure there exists an exploit within the game of Brawl itself which doesn't require anything from you except an SD card with the proper codes and can load on an unhacked Wii.
P:M is completely different from vanilla, you literally cannot play the game without the SD card trick. Vanilla just requires you to pop it in there.The fact that Project M has become big enough to be run as a main tournament rather than a side one should be enough indication that things like taking a bit of effort to make custom code a standard is well within the limits of competitive players.
I agree but for a different reason; if we start hacking gameplay in tournaments, we'll basically be admitting to the world that our game is bad competitively. Which I don't think is the opinion of the vast majority of Brawl players, seeing as how they're still playing the game competitively without hacks.
So no one cares if we admit to the world that our game is bad? The hack wouldn't even change anyone's opinions to play, as pretty much everyone who dislikes Brawl dislikes it for more than just that. The only outside impact would be negative, we would've only done it for us and it wouldn't even change that much to warrant the increased difficulty in setting up and the destruction of our game's integrity
Okay, what? You're seriously saying that I can't speak my opinion, even if it's completely relevant? No, I'm not doing that.Also: The fact that this mechanic currently exists is objectively and invariably bad for competitive play. Yes, most of us agree it's not absolutely game-breaking or anything, but there is no positive to leaving it in. Please feel free to argue otherwise, as long as it's not something like "objectively =/= your opinion" or "it's not that big a deal".
most of us agree it's not absolutely game-breaking or anything
You see this? Same thing, different wording. The former is exactly what I meant by the latter this entire time."it's not that big a deal".
Fair enough.At this point I don't feel that the FGC would change their opinion whether we altered the game or not; they point to Meta Knight controversy, our restrictive stage list and lack of item play, and all the drama surrounding notable players in our community.
Have you been reading the thread? Haters are already latching onto this, imagine what would happen if we admit that it is as bad as they say and we literally need to hack the game to fix it?Really, applying a hack to eliminate random input delay? That doesn't seem like something the haters would latch onto.
Oversimplification combined with exclamation marks to add artificial emotion to the person's point to make it look irrational; nice.No, I don't think "we shouldn't hack the game, just think about what OTHER people might think!" is a good reason for looking at the possibility, nor is "no OTHER games do this, so we should just bite the bullet and not do anything either!"
You've just passed your own boundary. This is no longer about bugs and has opened the door to changing mechanics. I'm not saying it's a slippery slope, but not everyone is going to want to stop with just tripping and you're not the ultimate authority.As for random tripping, I don't have much argument either way on that, though if hacking Brawl to remove such issues like random input delay become standard, I do believe that random tripping should also be removed.
As opposed to "they need to turn off a bunch of janky stages", "they need to ban a character 'cause it's so broken", and "they don't play with items"? The public reception of our game to a relatively new competitive player may be important, but if they go to the FGC for recommendations this wouldn't even be close to the first strike we have on their impressions of our game and how we play it.And, yes, the public reception of our game is important because if we have a bad rep, we won't get new players. Imagine how "they need to hack the game to make it playable" would sound to someone just hearing about us.
Test 1: Falco spotdodges, MK Dtilts and misses by one frame, gets powershielded and Falco inputs Usmash in reaction to the PS (meaning 12 frames after it happens, including shieldlag) (MK will be at the best possible spacing to hit Falco with Dtilt)
Test 2: Falco spotdodges, MK Dtilts and misses by one frame, gets powershielded and Falco buffers the PS > Usmash OoS (MK will again be at optimal spacing)
Test 3: Falco spotdodges, MK Dtilts and misses by one frame, gets powershielded and Falco has buffered another spotdodge, MK inputs Dtilt one frame earlier (testing to see if the lag is consistent throughout this exchange such that timing Dtilt earlier by one frame makes it hit one frame earlier)
So is this just a specific example or can it be applied to a lot of other things?tldr if you're trying to punish Falco's spotdodge with MK's dtilt and getting punished from the lag you're bad at spacing and it's less the lag's fault than yours
I don't think officialness is really that big when it comes to mechanics irrelevant to any sort of consistent gameplay, but that's opinions so it won't go anywhere. It's a fair enough argument that not every tournament player has an SD card readily available and that alone would be an obstacle to standardizing any sort of game code alterations.Forcing people to practice for and play in tournaments with codes is not a good idea, IMO. It's a vanilla game and we're not the creators of it. Capcom releases patches for their games. We shouldn't be able to force people to require something so specific to play this game competitively. Until recently, I was not even able to acquire a single SD card for myself. What if I wanted to practice for the next upcoming tourney? What are you going to do, provide everyone who asks with a free SD card?
How far from optimal can Meta Knight afford to space against Falco and still not get punished with usmash? If this is polygon-perfect spacing required then I don't think we can fault human error margins on being bad at spacing.It's probably more MK specific punishing spot dodges with Dtilt, but someone said that if the MK missed the window by 1 frame and got his Dtilt PS'd, it would be an Usmash to the face. If that happened, you're bad at spacing. The lag would've prevented you from punishing the spotdodge, but if you spaced the Dtilt properly you would not get hit by the Usmash and would probably have a chance to punish that with a buffered move.
Project M is growing and Melee is also growing again. From what I've observed, Brawl is dying. It is true that "to make custom code a standard is well within the limits of competitive players," but Brawl's community already isn't that big, compared to other FGs, and performing this kind of action would cut it into a smaller one as there would definitely be people who objected, even if only for trivial, irrelevant personal reasons.The fact that Project M has become big enough to be run as a main tournament rather than a side one should be enough indication that things like taking a bit of effort to make custom code a standard is well within the limits of competitive players.
Spacing:How far from optimal can Meta Knight afford to space against Falco and still not get punished with usmash? If this is polygon-perfect spacing required then I don't think we can fault human error margins on being bad at spacing.
And if you're interested in testing something I see more often, I'd like to know about how this might affect late attempts to grab someone out of repeated spotdodges.