Infinite Second Jump Recovery List and Discussion [SEPT 7] - 19 videos!

[RDK]

Just to be 100% clear on this, no part of this involves canceling move animation, correct?

I was pumped at first to hear about this thinking it's the new l-cancel, but I'm sad again because it isn't.

Also, do you have to actually do the buffered double jump, or can you opt to not jump, so if you get hit before touching the ground, even though you used your double jump, this technique gave it back so you can recover (you must recover, after all).

It's not about cancelling move animations, which sucks, because this technique would be a lot more useful if it was universal. Some of the character moves that need it the most can't even ISJR (Ganon's f-air, etc.).

 

[Steck]

Some n00b questions: What does it mean to "buffer" the jump?
Also all of G&W's air attacks seem to take a long time to finish- so would that mean I have to start them at a higher point? Also does tap jump affect this?

Also this thread is amazing by the way

 

[skrach8]

In the yoshi vid, it seems like he was doing the isjr pretty high off the ground, towards the end of the video. Is the description on how to do this 100% accurate?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Just to be 100% clear on this, no part of this involves canceling move animation, correct?

I was pumped at first to hear about this thinking it's the new l-cancel, but I'm sad again because it isn't.

Also, do you have to actually do the buffered double jump, or can you opt to not jump, so if you get hit before touching the ground, even though you used your double jump, this technique gave it back so you can recover (you must recover, after all).

Wow Sliq, you still haven't gotten it yet? Basically the entire idea is that you aren't landing anymore. Every aerial has landing lag, be it a few frames or whatever. But the SJR/ISJR have 0 landing lag because technically you never even land as you jump instead. It isn't canceling a move animation per se, but it is basically the Brawl equivalent L-cancel. Its just much less versatile and much more difficult. The entire idea is that the buffered jump (which comes out as the second jump) is what technically cancels the landing lag. Think of it almost like L-canceling, but instead of the shield button you use the jump button, and it actually makes you jump. So you can't opt to not jump since its necessary to do so to perform the technique. Unfortunatly, the SJR/ISJR could be risky at higher percentages because it wouldn't give your jump back if you get hit.

 

[FrostByte]

It's not remotely as useful as the L-cancel because the only options you have from it are to jump at the height of a double jump, which is good for those with low 2nd jumps. Doesn't do much for multijump characters as the already have multiple jumps.

It only works with autocancelled aerials and only when near the ground right? I think I'd rather have the 4 frames of landing lag with the option to shield or use ground attacks.

Is there some awesome aspect about this technique I'm missing? Fill me in please.

 

[Mr_X]

It doesn't appear to be as useful as L-cancelling yes, but it could lead to future discoveries. As for the "awesomeness", the only thing I can see competitively are mindgames - something Brawl is clearly based on.

 

[3xSwords]

@Frostbyte Are you kidding? Multiple jumpers probably benefit the most. For one, multi jumpers have a smaller jump height everytime they jump. With this they will be able to stay at the desired jump height. They will be able to control how high they jump to some extent. Add platforms and you can get some pretty decent juggling in with some characters *cough*metaknight*cough*

 

[Mr_X]

You could get some potential juggles going. Keep in mind that unless you're opponent is in a daze because they've never seen this before, they'll airdodge. This again leads moreso to mindgames as I stated previously. You really aren't eliminating all they're options/immobilizing them in the true sense of word "juggle".

But I guess I'm just being pessimistic.

 

[3xSwords]

I think this will help a lot w/ juggling b/c most of the time I can no longer juggle b/c I've run out of jumps or I can't jump high enough. With ISJR I can solve both problems.

Also a question for guys that can do this semi-consitently. Should I concentrate on timing when the attack ends so that it ends near the ground or should I be timing when to jump? Or both?

 

[Deleted member]

Subscribed. This thread is amazing, showing a lot of potential.

Screw the haters, keep testing and discovering.

 

[Tyr_03]

lol imagine the future of Brawl if this becomes really useful. Entire matches where neither player ever touches the ground. Crazy. I doubt it will become that huge but still funny to think about.

 

[Makkun]

Thank you very much for everyone's support and compliments. XDD <3

@3xSwords: The most important part I believe is timing the aerial so it ends at a certain point above the ground. Sometimes I think the jump is pretty important, but it seems like if you get the aerial timing right, you can be a little sloppy on the jump as long as it's while you're above the ground.

@Mr X: This helps juggling immensely. You never touch the ground, so you have no lag, giving your opponent less time to react. And if they airdodge, you have more options to hit them before or after the airdodge itself. Take Pikachu for example, you can do a rising Uair and then an Uair at the peak of your SJR'd jump, then repeat.

And this obviously isn't as useful as L-cancelling, but so far it's the closest we've come.

@skrach8: The video description is SLIGHTLY outdated. If you look at the steps in the OP, you'll see that I made the definition for "like autocancelling" more precise and what I originally meant to say.

@Steck: For some aerials, you have to time them early, like as soon as you second-jump. This makes some moves less useful, but if it is what you have to do, it's what you have to do. :/ Tap jump doesn't affect this I don't think... I do it fine with my Y button.

Again, I thank everyone for believing in this technique. XD Especially the mods and BRoomers who haven't overlooked this as useless, as they pretty much have the biggest voices in the community.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Know whats weird? While I was trying to do this (and failing constantly) I discovered something. Incredibly minor, but if you double jump, notice that there are rings made when you do the second jump. Well, if you jump (while doing an aerial) then perfectly buffer a jump followed quickly by another aerial, you'll have a ringless second jump. I found this out because I was experimenting with Diddy. Using the A-stick, I was able to do Rising Nair -> Fast fall -> ISJR -> Rising Nair, etc., and the rising Nair had no rings when I did the ISJR. A little weird, likely quite minor, but just interesting nonetheless.

Oh yeah, I also discovered that you can do this ringless second jump from your standing animation. You need to have tap jump on, as well as another button for jump. My setup was tap jump on, R for jump, and the A-stick. I found that immediately after tap jump I could "buffer" (I guess its technically a buffer) a rising aerial attack resulting in a ringless second jump. The only use I found for that was it made timing the ISJR for Diddy's Nair and Dair much easier for me.

I am the king of useless discoveries

 

[Makkun]

Yeah I noticed that too. O: When I was testing out Snake, you can see it in my Dair video I believe. I think it has to do with the game thinking you're on the ground, so I think that combined with the fact that you're getting your double jump back confirms that we were right about the game thinking you're in air and on ground at the same time. (Like we didn't know that already. XP)

Still, it's strange that you don't do a lagless first jump or anything. That would make this technique a lot better. :/

 

[3xSwords]

idk samurai panda I think my useless discovery may beat yours. On Onett the two platforms in the middle eventually collapse if you land on them too many times. Well if you do Bowser's koopa klaw jump multiple times on the platforms they will eventually collapse. This leads me to the question, since ISJR'ing and klaw jump work on the same principle, if you did an ISJR on the platforms would it also cause them to collapse?

 

[FrostByte]

@Frostbyte Are you kidding? Multiple jumpers probably benefit the most. For one, multi jumpers have a smaller jump height everytime they jump. With this they will be able to stay at the desired jump height. They will be able to control how high they jump to some extent. Add platforms and you can get some pretty decent juggling in with some characters *cough*metaknight*cough*

They have to attack more or less at the same time every jump depending on whether they fastfall or not. So Marth for example, would have to start his fair late in his jump every time and his fair has a good amount of knockback, enough to get them out of your range. Better to chase after them on the ground or use a jump you won't really benefit from?

The reason I'm sceptical about this is because Bowzer, who is the easiest character to use this with and who gets a grab as he lands, isn't a gamebreaking character.

This follows the same concept as Bowser's infinite jump without the ease of use or the grab. I just don't see how this can be effective.

 

[TK Wolf]

I tried doing this with lucario, the timing requirements are SO STRICT. Looks like you need to time your attack to the exact frame to land at the right time, or possibly 2-3 frames...

 

[Makkun]

They have to attack more or less at the same time every jump depending on whether they fastfall or not. So Marth for example, would have to start his fair late in his jump every time and his fair has a good amount of knockback, enough to get them out of your range. Better to chase after them on the ground or use a jump you won't really benefit from?

The reason I'm sceptical about this is because Bowzer, who is the easiest character to use this with and who gets a grab as he lands, isn't a gamebreaking character.

This follows the same concept as Bowser's infinite jump without the ease of use or the grab. I just don't see how this can be effective.

You're wrong. Bowser's Side-B is different. It might look the same, but you actually cancel his attack while you're doing this. Also I'm not even sure if this works on the exact same principle. Unlike Bowser's Side-B, this is useful because you have the freedom to do any attack you want and alternate (with some characters), or you could simple airdodge into the ground and run and pursue your opponent if you need to. We aren't saying this is a gamebreaking technique at this point, it just gives you more options. If you want to stop ISJRing, you can, it's that simple.

 

[storm92]

I just did some testing on Pikachu's Thunder Jolt/Neutral B.
Although I couldn't repeat it consistently and still am not sure if it can be ISJR'd, I know for sure that you can SJR it.
I have a replay too, so if anyone wants to convert it let me know. I don't have a capture card though.

 

[Makkun]

Thank you. :D I don't think a video would be required, but if anybody feels like putting one up, I'll put it in the OP.

However, if you can get a replay of you ISJRing it, I'll take the replay and record with my crappy camera off my TV. XP

 

[FrostByte]

Bowser can attack infinitely during jumps with anything but dair.

 

[Makkun]

Oh I see. O: Then disregard what I had said before. XD My apologies! >_<

However, Bowser is still slow and from what I remember, his horizontal aerial speed is very slow, and not a very good character anyway. I predict this being very helpful for Snake, Peach, Yoshi, Pikachu, maybe Marth, Diddy, Pit, Mario, Wario, Luigi, Cpt Falcon, and others.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Yeah I noticed that too. O: When I was testing out Snake, you can see it in my Dair video I believe. I think it has to do with the game thinking you're on the ground

Actually, I can do this "ringless second jump" thing in the air as well, without having to SJR at all. But its useless AFAIK.

 

[storm92]

I'll get to working on seeing if Chu can ISJR with it, and if I do, I'll post a video ASAP.

 

[Makkun]

Oh really? I wasn't aware of that. XD Yeah I dunno what any uses it would bring about, unless your opponent is looking for the rings to see if you DJ'd immediately off the ground or not. I guess you'd kind of trick them if you could DJ without the rings from the ground. Still I don't even know how much that use that would have. XP

Do you have any idea what causes it?

Edit: @Storm92: Thanks. I'll be waiting!

 

[storm92]

Oh really? I wasn't aware of that. XD Yeah I dunno what any uses it would bring about, unless your opponent is looking for the rings to see if you DJ'd immediately off the ground or not. I guess you'd kind of trick them if you could DJ without the rings from the ground. Still I don't even know how much that use that would have. XP

Do you have any idea what causes it?

Edit: @Storm92: Thanks. I'll be waiting!

Ugh, after going for around 15 minutes straight of trying to ISJR with Pika's Thunder Jolt, I came up blank. I'm not sure if it's just me (I don't think so, at least, I could ISJR with other chars), but I could only do SJR's. The ending lag from Thunder Jolt is too long to pull it off a second time.
As far as I can tell.
Pika's Dair can, no FF.

EDIT: Yeah, I just posted that Ness's Nair and Fair can ISJR without looking you already tested that. Moving on to another character now.

 

[Makkun]

Thanks a lot. :3 I'm updating the list.

 

[3xSwords]

Storm92 can you also try the timing for kirby seeing that its your main. Because I'm having a very hard time getting his timing down. Hopefully post a vid of it too?

 

[metaXzero]

I second that. I need a Kirby SJR video for my thread...

 

[Makkun]

I can vouch for Kirby's timing being impossibly hard. T___T

Updated the list with a new "multi-air" thing to go with fast falling.
Just letting you guys know in case I made any mistakes. I think the ones I tagged I'm 100% sure of.

 

[3xSwords]

Oh yeah btw Makkun spamming jump works for me. I think as long as you get the attack to end near the ground you can spam jump and get the ISJR to work. So that makes FF'ing very critical for mastering this tech, b/c you will be able to in theory do an ISJR jump anywhere above the limit of a regular non-FF ISJR'd move.

 

[Makkun]

okay awesome. O: One more thing confirmed. (:

Also I was just messing with Falco, trying to get his (I)SJR laser to work (still can't), and I made a strange discovery. If you time your laser as if you would for an SJR (he puts his gun away as he lands), if you time it right, he will land with zero lag. Zero. You see him pull his hand away from where he put his gun, but that's it. There is no landing cloud/dust, and he doesn't kneel like he would with landing lag or if you landed in the middle of his laser.

This needs to be looked into. :/

 

[3xSwords]

I believe it called the "silent laser." Its been discovered already and you can see it being used by good Falco's in some vids. I think its like tink's and link's quick draw with the bow except timing is much harder.

 

[Unseen_Killa]

Makkun, it's already known. Hard to pull off though.

 

[metaXzero]

Found a video of Kirby ISJR with hammer!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5qZ6dEe9kX8

This is very hard to type with a Wiimote.

 

[storm92]

Yeah, Makkun, I tried earlier also with Falco's laser and couldn't get one SJR out with around 200 tries.
Its still a possibility though.

EDIT: IC's Dair is impossible to ISJR.

 

[Makkun]

Oh I see. XDD Well I feel dumb now. :'D

Thanks for the vid + IC Dair info.

 

[3xSwords]

Might as well put shiek there too b/c you need to fall a very long distance before you can even cancel it with an upB. So the SJR for her dair is out of her jump range, meaning her dair is only SJR'able if she is hit up by someone else.

 

[Makkun]

Yeah I confirmed her dair as unISJRable earlier today.

 

[worldjem7]

I found something about bowser. Will post video later.