Houston Smash Ultimate Thread

[Xyro77]

Hi guys. Hope you don't mind me jumping in the conversation. I was just wondering what ya'll think of using custom moves as just a way of balancing the roster (if the unlocking issue weren't a problem).

Like Ike, for example. I've seen a custom move variation of his aether that makes it easier for him to recover. If it were somehow decided that Ike just wasn't a very tournament viable character (say 6 months post release), couldn't we make a ruleset that allows Ike players to change specifically allowed moves to their custom variations? I feel like that would encourage players to try out lower tier characters later in the metagame when tournament variety would start to diminish.

The problem with this is that if we allow some custom moves but not others, we would have to write out a huge ass list of "legal custom moves" and "banned custom moves." The OP of a tournament thread would be HUGE with that.

Then we have other issues like setting up for the first match and counter picking. I'll give you an example:

You vs me, ok?


First game:
You create a name
Edit controls
Edit custom moves
I create a name
Edit controls
Edit custom moves
Then we do the stage strike process

*That was a 2-4min process*

Play our match and you win....

*that was between a 5-7min process*

Now I.......

Counter pick stage
You change character
pick custom moves
I change character
pick Custom moves

*that was a 1-3min process*

We play our 2nd match and let's say I win, so not only did that 2nd match take between 5-7min now we repeat the counter pick phase.

*that was a 1-3min process"

Done. And this is assuming no one syncs up controllers or picks a mii where even more moves are customizable. So real quick, do the math. It's ridiculous.

As a TO, our number one complaint is time. Events simply run to long due to a variety of factors: people being late, not starting on time, lack of set-ups, too many side events and NOW we get to add custom moves as an item that docks time.




I'm simply not doing that **** for main smash. I'll have custom moves legal but only in side events where I know it won't cause too much of a problem.


I don't want this to sound mean to anybody, however, if you have run any amount of events for an extended period of time, you realize when things like this.






As for Razer, you can't know if it won't create a "metaknight" just like I can't know that it will. Difference is, I don't want to take the chance because I know how this scene works. Once something is activated, you can't go back. I have a scene/tournament series to look out for. It's much more important than what I personally want (custom moves are a fine idea).

 

[RT]

I would say just wait until after the first custom move tournament to see what happens.

Although again, that rule not allowing any of the moves to be default is really dumb. Some of the default moves are better for some characters. The only requirement should be you must have AT LEAST one custom move.

 

[Xyro77]

Until I figure out something, That's what the side event is for.

 

[RT]

I guess I was a little unclear. I meant to say, the point of a custom moves is to mix and match them with regular default moves to create an ideal playstyle for your main.

If you ban the default moves from the custom move tourney, it defeats this intended purpose and a good testing opportunity.

 

[BlueJx23]

The problem with this is that if we allow some custom moves but not others, we would have to write out a huge *** list of "legal custom moves" and "banned custom moves." The OP of a tournament thread would be HUGE with that.

As a TO, our number one complaint is time. Events simply run to long due to a variety of factors: people being late, not starting on time, lack of set-ups, too many side events and NOW we get to add custom moves as an item that docks time.

As for Razer, you can't know if it won't create a "metaknight" just like I can't know that it will. Difference is, I don't want to take the chance because I know how this scene works. Once something is activated, you can't go back. I have a scene/tournament series to look out for. It's much more important than what I personally want (custom moves are a fine idea).

I was thinking more along the lines of a strict BR process that would barely allow any custom moves to get through (for the sake of balancing) and it would only be in bad cases where it could be effective. That way it would only be a (at worst) mediocre list of "legal custom moves" and a side note of "all custom moves not listed are banned". I see your point, though.

Overall, I agree with you on custom moves not being legal. If we open that particular Pandora's Box and it turns out it was a bad idea, then later on when we try to take it back we'll easily lose a very large portion of the scene that wanted to keep them legal.

I only submitted my idea for discussion cuz I thought it was neat, not realistic. I doubt Nintendo would ever release a balance patch to fix anything that isn't utterly broken in Sm4sh, but it looks like they don't have to since they sorta gave us the tools to do it ourselves.

 

[Xyro77]

To be honest, custom moves in theory is not a bad idea. But this is smash. A party game we made into a fighter so the rules or legalization of custom moves of other traditional fighters don't have any ground in smash games. We also have a scene that is willing to sit on the ledge or jump+air dodge on platforms for 8mins because they are not good enough to win under normal conditions. Meaning, the smash community is the most "lame" community I have ever witnessed and this custom move issue is just ANOTHER way to lame it out for another 6 years.

I'd love to be wrong but knowing how this community is, I'll prob be right.

 

[iamjoel5]

I wish I knew the glory of what is being discussed!

Does anyone have an extra code they can PM me for smash3DS?

 

[UltimateRazer]

I would say just wait until after the first custom move tournament to see what happens.

Although again, that rule not allowing any of the moves to be default is really dumb. Some of the default moves are better for some characters. The only requirement should be you must have AT LEAST one custom move.

The problem is, Allan seems to be dead set on banning them from regular tournaments and not changing back. I need to see a definitive statement from him saying that he'll actually observe tournaments and use results/data to make an educated decision on this. Custom moves could in theory create GREAT variety. And you telling me that most these moves aren't even that good or OP is encouraging.

 

[Xyro77]

I need to see a definitive statement from him saying that he'll actually observe tournaments and use results/data to make an educated decision on this.

ive already said on here and in person that if they are proven to me the same as "normal" smash or something NOT MK-ish, ill allow them in normal 1vs1.

you guys jump the gun and hear what you want to hear out of what i say.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm not entirely sure what the people commentating meant since of course no 3DS or even the game. But from what I heard, even local matches can lag if you're not friends with your opponent or charging your 3DS so it won't lag.
http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/568701712
57 minutes in

 

[Xyro77]

I'm not entirely sure what the people commentating meant since of course no 3DS or even the game. But from what I heard, even local matches can lag if you're not friends with your opponent or charging your 3DS so it won't lag.
http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/568701712
57 minutes in

no worries, the 3ds has a "wiiu" button so that means the 3ds can be used as a controller for the wiiu version of smash. so once smash wiiu comes out we will never have to use a 3ds version again

 

[Tesh]

Don't be a scrub, Xyro. Its easy to sit back and call something "lame", but every form of competition comes down to being "lame". Its just a pejorative term for efficiency. People run out timers in major league sports ffs. When something becomes important to you and there is alot on the line, you will do ANYTHING in your power to win.

You play Samus, so from day 1 it obviously you weren't as competitive minded as those people. Whatever is the best will be considered "lame" by casuals and scrubs, but taking away the best options just elevates the next best thing to "lame".

Lame=/=broken.

Xyro is, quite frankly, just stubborn. He HAS said several times that he wants to wait for braver TOs to test everything out before he makes a call. I honestly dont believe him though. Which means Houston players that don't travel, may not get a chance to see what depth Smash 4 competition can have.

He isn't even really taking a stand. He is pretending to allow custom moves in a separate bracket while simultaneously butchering any hope for common sense in the ruleset. Forcing everyone to use custom moves in a way they won't enjoy is just a scheme to breed the same kind of pigheadedness you are displaying right now. You have made up your mind and are now just seeking evidence to support your claim instead of being fair or logical.

 

[Espy Rose]

Well, he's a TO, so he's entitled to whatever decisions he chooses, even if you don't agree. Going to his events and paying your way in just feeds into it, so honestly, you have no one to blame but yourselves for that.

 

[Tesh]

I'm comfortable travelling now, but when I enterred the scene, I wasn't.

Back in 2009/10, If I thought my local TO was being dumb, I would have just quit the game. Dozens of local players will have these upcoming events as their first tournament and could shape the way they see this community.

 

[Espy Rose]

That's true, but that's what the role of older players is. To help them understand and feel welcomed. You are all the lifeblood of your local community. If you see someone turned off, talk to them. Try to understand them and see what you can do to improve their experience.

I mean, that's really it.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Believe it or not Tesh, people that started in brawl are old gens now.

 

[Tesh]

Well, thats why I need to get my message out there. So people can see all sides of the argument and decide for themselves. I don't mind if the majority wind up disagreeing with me. As long as everyone gets a fair shot.

 

[Espy Rose]

That's fair enough.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Anybody who runs a tourney within a month of the game's release, especially on the handheld and obviously less intense version, and runs it "seriously" and for anything less than fun is doing the community a disservice.

Let the game develop before you even consider banning/allowing anything. Jesus **** people, this game isn't even out stateside, and it hasn't even been out a week. But yeah, I'm sure you all have a grasp on it. I mean, it'd be stupid to think with 1 week of experience you're all certified masters of this game and know how everything will develop, and you guys aren't stupid, right? It would be foolhardy to discuss what should be banworthy or allowed because you saw a couple videos of it, but nobody's really doing that, right?

Take your time with this game or you will ruin it. Allow everything, then vote on what needs trimmed out. And I don't mean show of hands, I mean poll everybody who is relevant to your tournaments well in advance of a change. And take months to do it. There won't be another Smash for years, take your sweet time doing what's best long term.

Treat this game as a fun game, if you restrict it, people will stop enjoying it. I mean, ****, Megas in Pokemon were feared before the games came out, people were calling for all Megas to be banned. Now they're an exciting new aspect of the game.

TO's should lead the community in positive energy, bringing a level of excitement to events. I skimmed the last 5 pages and have seen nothing but negativity and the same defeatist attitudes that killed off Brawl. The most surefire way to make Smash 4 the same as Brawl, is to cling to the past. That's why the cesspool that is PM exists.

 

[Xyro77]

Don't be a scrub, Xyro. Its easy to sit back and call something "lame", but every form of competition comes down to being "lame". Its just a pejorative term for efficiency. People run out timers in major league sports ffs. When something becomes important to you and there is alot on the line, you will do ANYTHING in your power to win.


You play Samus, so from day 1 it obviously you weren't as competitive minded as those people. Whatever is the best will be considered "lame" by casuals and scrubs, but taking away the best options just elevates the next best thing to "lame".

Lame=/=broken.

Xyro is, quite frankly, just stubborn. He HAS said several times that he wants to wait for braver TOs to test everything out before he makes a call. I honestly dont believe him though. Which means Houston players that don't travel, may not get a chance to see what depth Smash 4 competition can have.

He isn't even really taking a stand. He is pretending to allow custom moves in a separate bracket while simultaneously butchering any hope for common sense in the ruleset. Forcing everyone to use custom moves in a way they won't enjoy is just a scheme to breed the same kind of pigheadedness you are displaying right now. You have made up your mind and are now just seeking evidence to support your claim instead of being fair or logical.

These will be in terrible order so dont try to link them with any paragraph above.

1. Im not a "scrub." I am better than you (tesh) at singles/doubles in literally every smash game we compete at, 1 of which i use low tier. I've ran more events in brawl than you will attend in a life time of brawl+smash 4. I've set/broke records here in this state (world wide too) and brought in people you would have never been able to meet otherwise. I like you as a person (one of my favorites as of late) but if i'm a "scrub", then you must be worse worst than liquid dog ****.

2. You, along with everyone else have ZERO idea what i am doing yet you are attacking/trash talking...etc as if you do know what is going on. Did you know i've tried low tier only event? Mid tier only? Mid+low? MK banned? ISP? Crews? Swiss? Pools? I have tried and will continue to try many many things over the next few years. I learn from experience or the well documented experience of others. What i am doing with this TEST tournament on Nov 1st is TESTING a separate event like the ones i mentioned above. I have banned nothing new. In fact, my events will have more legal stages than any other event in Tx (i guarantee). My goals and data collecting are far beyond your understanding, clearly, because almost ALL of you are jumping the gun and ASSUMING you know what i'm doing. Spoilers: you don't know....NONE of you do.

3. Yes im stubborn. Everybody is to an extent....even you. However, what you call stubborn i call "taking a stand for what i believe in" and that is what separates me from the rest of you. Most of you will accept whatever is shoved up your ass because its "new" and "well everybody else is doing it.'' That is where the term "mindless sheep" come from. Im willing to go against the grain of what is "mainstream" because unlike you all, i am not afraid of the backlash. I've dealt with backlash for all 6 years of brawls life and guess what i help you all do? I helped make Tx a "top 3 smash state." I helped create the best sonic (espy), best or 2nd best diddy(gnes), snake(razer), lucario....ect all because of HOBOs/WHOBOs Im the one who gets m2k, zero, lee martin, mikehaze, Ally, Vinnie, Azn....ect to go to my events over the years. And it was all done without doing apex rules or whatever.

4. Yes, i will wait for other TOs to test custom rules. There is nothing wrong with this. There is nothing wrong with seeing other experiences and using it to better morph my events. I'll eventually test it myself too (maybe by TGC 2 or 3 or maybe the 1st one if i can do another test tournament in Dec) but in the mean time i have other things i want to test. Again, there is nothing wrong with this.

5. What most of you fail to understand is that i am a TO first and a player 2nd. I view things from a "how can i make this game survive for as long as possible." I know you guys don't care what happens to a scene (hence, most of you trashed brawl and went to Project Garbage or Last of Us or Marvel....etc) but i do. None of you will even truly admit to yourselves the damage MK, apex stage set (aka the most common ruleset that favored MK) and other stupid **** brought on by Apex-ish rules. You will simply throw out the blanket statement "brawl cause brawl to fail" which is simply not true (NOTE: WHOBO 4 or any MK banned event shows you how fun/interesting/fair brawl can be). I cant/wont explain all of this to you (if 6 years of mk hasnt changed your mind, nothing will) so that is why i will carry on as i always have and do my own thing to preserve this game. Players come in go like a fart in the wind. This game is here for the next 6-7 years, id prefer to enjoy it for as long as possible.

6. This is mainly for Tesh but it can apply to anybody. If you don't like what i do at my events, don't go. It saves me being annoyed by your biching and it saves your breath. There are other cities and other venues here in this town that will not be doing what i do so please go experience them (i know i will). However, those of you that know me, you also know that i'm not crazy and i will not sink our ship....especially one i helped build. I never did it while i ran melee, i never did it while i ran brawl (in fact i did the opposite) and i won't do it here. If you think otherwise, im sure gameguys or insomnia will accept you. Regardless, my series will continue until the day i decide to abandon ship. Id prefer you all to be with me (we went through 6 years of brawl, lets keep it going) but i'm fully prepared to lose you.

7. Ive said this a billion times over the 10 years ive been TOing but i guess i need to say it again. I don't use logic, reason or any other form of justification you intellectuals use. I just do what i feel is "right." What i feel is "right" is not to open the flood gates of something that COULD be bad/not work (custom moves) and combine it with what we already know works (no custom moves). So instead of banning it, im treating it as a side event. This isnt perm, this is a test.

 

[Espy Rose]

Maan gotem.

 

[Tesh]

You aren't better than me at the Smash games we both play Xyro. You narrowly beat me at MY FIRST TOURNAMENT and never again after that, so I don't see how you can state that as fact. In any case, being a scrub is a mentality, not how skilled you are. Espy falls into this category and he is one of the god damned best by any measure.

Scrubs are just people that choose bad options, knowing they are bad and stick with it anyway.

 

[Xyro77]

You aren't better than me at the Smash games we both play Xyro. You narrowly beat me at MY FIRST TOURNAMENT and never again after that, so I don't see how you can state that as fact. In any case, being a scrub is a mentality, not how skilled you are. Espy falls into this category and he is one of the god damned best by any measure.

Scrubs are just people that choose bad options, knowing they are bad and stick with it anyway.

I beat you at PM/Brawl/Melee and i don't own any of the games or consoles. In fact, i haven't owned melee in 6 years, never owned PM and havent owned brawl in 3 years....yet you live in a house where all 3 are played DAILY. Yes, you are that bad.

And what you are describing as "scrub" is def not me/espy.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

My goals and data collecting are far beyond your understanding

Oh, k

 

[Xyro77]

Oh, k

you will understand one day.





or you could just ask.

 

[Gea]

I would say just wait until after the first custom move tournament to see what happens.

Although again, that rule not allowing any of the moves to be default is really dumb. Some of the default moves are better for some characters. The only requirement should be you must have AT LEAST one custom move.

Not to jump in late to this crap-flinging, but wouldn't data best be derived by actually having no limit to what your loadout is? The whole idea would be seeing if custom moves "break" the game. Honestly it doesn't matter unless they are wholly overcentralizing to the entire metagame like planking or MK were. They could be, but right now it doesn't look like it. Who knows?

The real issue with including them in tournaments is the logistic side of things. I 100% agree this could be a problem. Granted, there are much larger problems with how Houston tournaments are run in regards to time than in-game factors. 6AM GFs weren't because custom controls took too long. As long as that is smooth, there is pretty much no reason to not include them until they become problematic. I can understand wanting to start things off as stable as possible, but really now is the time to try out different rulesets before the massive wave of whiners sets in. Don't let Brawl's kneejerk banathon happen again because so many people assumed the Melee ruleset would perfectly transpose. Remember when people tried to play 4 stock Brawl matches? I think there are some still going on to this day, waiting to be finished.

Honestly though, like others have said, it doesn't matter. He's the TO and he can do what he wishes. Prove the validity that the scene wants it by hosting your own series if it's that important to you. Else put up with arbitrary rulemaking and needless drama.

My two cents and advice to Allan is thus: The 3DS tournament is going to be silly anyways because of interference, controlscheme, etc. Don't squander an opportunity to explore a more varied ruleset in the hopes of finding something good before the WiiU version comes out. I really do implore you to have the most liberal ruleset within reason-- people at this point will have more to worry about than pictochat or custom moves skewing some ranking system that shouldn't yet exist.

 

[Espy Rose]

How long have you had that avatar, Gea?
You gonna be playing Doc in Smash 4?

 

[Xyro77]

My two cents and advice to Allan is thus: The 3DS tournament is going to be silly anyways because of interference, controlscheme, etc. Don't squander an opportunity to explore a more varied ruleset in the hopes of finding something good before the WiiU version comes out. I really do implore you to have the most liberal ruleset within reason-- people at this point will have more to worry about than pictochat or custom moves skewing some ranking system that shouldn't yet exist.

that is exactly what i am doing.
ill have lots of stages legal and custom moves legal.
im not banning anything new other than the obvious (something like new pork city or big blue...etc)
the people truly crying are the ones who simply assume what i am doing.

and yeah, 3ds only events will not happen once the wiiu comes out since you can use the 3ds as a controller for wiiu. it would be silly to take 3ds stuff too serious.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Interference won't be an issue, 3DS's are really up to date with Local play capabilities.

And people forget that casual fans still play Brawl daily. Brawl never died, Brawl tournaments did. People need to stop acting like Smash is a major league sport, it's just not, and honestly never will be. Keep the game fun, that's what Nintendo has always been about. If people are travelling so far to play a game with other people, make it an experience. Brawl tournies were always pay 10 bucks to be herded like cattle for hours. Between that and negative attitudes it's no wonder the game dropped off.

 

[Airbrush_King]

The Road to TGC event going down Nov 1 will be off the chain! Space for this event will be limited and tickets are flying fast so reserve your ticket at https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-ro...t-8pokemon-xy-tournaments-tickets-13016154669. Reserving your ticket will guarantee your attendance and you will be able to enter the venue and any of the tournaments. If you do not reserve a ticket, you can still show up to the venue but if we are over venue capacity you will not be able to enter the venue. Print/show your ticket to me at the venue or on your phone. I will be announcing some information about the TGC Mobile App soon so stay tuned and lets get hype!

 

[Xyro77]

Interference won't be an issue, 3DS's are really up to date with Local play capabilities.

And people forget that casual fans still play Brawl daily. Brawl never died, Brawl tournaments did. People need to stop acting like Smash is a major league sport, it's just not, and honestly never will be. Keep the game fun, that's what Nintendo has always been about. If people are travelling so far to play a game with other people, make it an experience. Brawl tournies were always pay 10 bucks to be herded like cattle for hours. Between that and negative attitudes it's no wonder the game dropped off.

you and i both know that^ wasn't why brawl dropped off.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Remember when people tried to play 4 stock Brawl matches? I think there are some still going on to this day, waiting to be finished.

Lol this was good. I don't think 3DS will have interference as well. At least not at these TGC tournaments.

 

[Gea]

How long have you had that avatar, Gea?
You gonna be playing Doc in Smash 4?

I guess I've had this one for a couple years now. I'll definitely look at Doc but my gut is steering me far away. At the very least I'll always mess around with him.

Interference won't be an issue, 3DS's are really up to date with Local play capabilities.

And people forget that casual fans still play Brawl daily. Brawl never died, Brawl tournaments did. People need to stop acting like Smash is a major league sport, it's just not, and honestly never will be. Keep the game fun, that's what Nintendo has always been about. If people are travelling so far to play a game with other people, make it an experience. Brawl tournies were always pay 10 bucks to be herded like cattle for hours. Between that and negative attitudes it's no wonder the game dropped off.

I've never seen wireless anything not have issues with local peer to peer connections in large crowds. Nintendo is not immune to this. Anyone who went to the Best Buy events can tell you that even trying to play Pokemon was an act of futility unless you were right against the person. I agree with Razer though that at this event it's unlikely to be a major issue.

If you want to just go and screw around, there are plenty of smash fests for that. Tournaments are to compete primarily, which is why stuff like rulesets are serious business to people. They want to feel validated for their success and be able to accept their losses while taking the game in the direction that fits their personal ideology. Your romanticization of the scene doesn't really belong in a discussion about rulesets or how to ensure the logistics of a tournament run smoothly. Ultimately having a good ruleset + running things efficiently will eliminate the feeling of being "herded around" because things will run smoother and give you more opportunities to socialize.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Agreed on the competitive part ^

You should enter tournaments with the goal of winning. The smash community has just taken a form of it's own with the root in competition.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Did you just pretend I didn't talk about rulesets prior? Follow the Blizzard patch philosophy of take your time.

And if you honestly think tournaments aren't really for the people who won't be top 8, then don't concern yourself with entrant totals. That elitist attitude is why Smash got so boring. PM was a fresh start for people who didn't do so well in Brawl, that's why it got so popular so fast. It's a new high school opening between 2 existing football schools. The people who didn't make Varsity at their old school were given a chance to start.

Of course the point of competition is to win, but you have to keep it fun for people who aren't top 8. Otherwise, why would they keep coming out? Experience is more important than placements.

As for the competitive side, yeah MK should've been banned. No ****. But even with MK, Brawl could've stayed relevant. The top level of competition never changed, but the bottom level stopped caring. It was easier to say "MK" because they followed the lead of the community. Everyone just collectively said "Brawl's broken, lol" and that was it. If people stopped the knee-jerk reactions and public bashing of the game, the minds of most people would've been positive.

Take your time with rulesets, don't aggressively restrict the game without clear and meaningful data. Aim for something like 75% approval of new rule changes. If something is less than 40% approved, drop the idea. If something is over that, but less than 75%, give it another 3 weeks, then vote again. Don't run Smash 4 like you're the end-all authority, let the community shape itself is all I ask.

 

[Espy Rose]

**** winning. Gotta go fast.

 

[Tesh]

No.. I play P:M because its easy to have fun with it when its around and the handful of times I played YOU, I beat you almost every game.

I don't play Melee at all, that game is not worth me picking up an ancient controller. Even if you want to count this one in your favor based on that, I have you in 2 out of 3 so whatever.

Blatantly lying about being able to beat me doesn't change the definition of scrub. Maybe if you picked a better character you could beat me (I still beat you when you picked up a mid tier like mine), but the fact that you refuse you pick a better option puts you deep into scrub territory. This is why you shouldn't be trusted to talk about whats "lame". You aren't a true competitor. I'm not trying to insult you, but a competition isn't about conventional expectations for fun. Its not about taking every risk and being as flashy as you can. Its truly about wanting to win. And if you feel like " I don't wanna win, I wanna play Samus", that is not being competitive. It doesn't give you the right to trash people that are willing to do what it takes to win.

Don't take it too personally either. Its good to have this discussion in the open so lurkers can wrap their heads around these concepts too.

 

[Xyro77]

Take your time with rulesets, don't aggressively restrict the game without clear and meaningful data. Aim for something like 75% approval of new rule changes. If something is less than 40% approved, drop the idea. If something is over that, but less than 75%, give it another 3 weeks, then vote again. Don't run Smash 4 like you're the end-all authority, let the community shape itself is all I ask.

they shaped themselves into allowing apex rules to govern 90% of all events ran. rules that favor a character that cannot be countered....Metaknight.

leaving the game up to smashers who only care about winning/doing well does not allow the game to grow/last. Hence the decline in brawl. thats why people like me and others take the backlash but provide a fun/"fair" environment.

 

[Xyro77]

No.. I play P:M because its easy to have fun with it when its around and the handful of times I played YOU, I beat you almost every game.

I don't play Melee at all, that game is not worth me picking up an ancient controller. Even if you want to count this one in your favor based on that, I have you in 2 out of 3 so whatever.

Blatantly lying about being able to beat me doesn't change the definition of scrub. Maybe if you picked a better character you could beat me (I still beat you when you picked up a mid tier like mine), but the fact that you refuse you pick a better option puts you deep into scrub territory. This is why you shouldn't be trusted to talk about whats "lame". You aren't a true competitor. I'm not trying to insult you, but a competition isn't about conventional expectations for fun. Its not about taking every risk and being as flashy as you can. Its truly about wanting to win. And if you feel like " I don't wanna win, I wanna play Samus", that is not being competitive. It doesn't give you the right to trash people that are willing to do what it takes to win.

Don't take it too personally either. Its good to have this discussion in the open so lurkers can wrap their heads around these concepts too.

Tesh, the 5 games we played of PM, you lost 3. ill **** on you again if you like.

In brawl, yeah im sure ive lost some games (we all lose some) to you but that is SOME. I've been beating you for years. sonic, mario, rob...etc i beat it. again, if you want, ill do it again the next time i come over. its nothing for me.

and i do wanna win. i wanna win at being the best samus or winning low tier events.....and i do exactly that. my goals are different than yours and what you judge as "competitive" or "competition" or "truly not wanting to win"....etc.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

But I'm correct in assuming yours are run differently because you're going to make sure they're fresh?

You're not wrong, the old rulesets were stupid. But take into account what I'm saying for your tournaments, make them a community driven experience. If you have an idea that you honestly believe in, take your time explaining it to your consumer base, don't downplay other ideas but promote yours. Then, ask what people believe is best, and compare/improve your ideas. You're launching a series, more importantly a business venture. You can't neglect what other people think, and you have to be more positive with this stuff. You have executive authority, it's your tournament. But if you think the mass of Smash players are too dumb to have honest and good ideas too, then don't expect the business to succeed. Open channels and customer service are how you make it in business when the product isn't yours. This is Nintendo's product, you're the middle-man.