Houston Smash Ultimate Thread

[UltimateRazer]

Allan like please listen this time. The stage list you have is GREAT minus those 2 stages and will take away from the event man. It'd still be a good variety. Just restrict those stages to doubles at least PLEASE.

 

[z00ted]

custom palutena<3<3<3

 

[Sinister Slush]

So about that TGC stagelist...
Coliseum y? Big and perm walk offs.
Wuhu Island

Among there being parts where we can get hit by the mountains and such (similar to PTAD) + the boat/water instantly killing I believe.
Boxing Ring, Camping and the lights respawn in 15 seconds if I remember correctly.
Big Battlefield, but y

Spoiler

I propose Wooly World, It's not as big as Coliseum and has a walk off for 35 seconds but then it goes into the air and lasts 35 seconds as well :^)
But seriously, even tho that stage can be bad for slow characters like Ganon or something, I'd prefer even WW over Coliseum or Boxing Ring.

 

[RT]

Okay, that Ness Dthrow did 100% because it clipped Wario through the stage, so yeah...banned.

 

[Sinister Slush]

http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/
If want better opinions then my own though, here's something.

http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/page-44#post-18053236
WW.
Also forgot about the Wii fit studio. Perm walk off? Plz no...

 

[Xyro77]

I'll respond to all of this when I get off work.

RT link me to the vid?

Slush, what boat. I let that stage run for 7min and I saw no boat. Vids?

 

[Zano]

The boat doesn't even appear very often, and it's completely random what transformation you get. I haven't seen anyone recreate that either so idk if it would be a huuuge cause for concern, but that is pretty dumb. Rest of the stage is fine

 

[AvoiD]

Lol @ anyone trying to solo main Little Mac in tihs stagelist

It can be done.

Anyways I won't be using Mac as often though. Sticking to CF/Marth once I mess around with them a little more. Two of the funnest chars imo.

Fear the Falcon. He's coming soon to a Wii U near you...

 

[Zano]

 

[Teshie U]

Xyro, to be honest I think you don't understand this game enough yet and are making assumptions based on outdated or incorrect ideas.

You want people to destroy something that respawns in 15 seconds to stop circle camping? What a joke. By this logic, you should also add Skyworld to the legal list. Destroying that stage gives you a few moments of combat too. Hell Luigi's mansion is also a destructible circle camp.

You want fun stages on? Where is pokemon stadium? Did you even play the game long enough to unlock it? FFS, if you are gonna allow jank stages that people will complain about, at least make it fun stages that can speed up gameplay. Not campfests or huge stages that will cause aggressive matchups to go to time.

Where is Duck Hunt? Its just an ugly FD stage with a series of platforms on the stage (and a really fun minigame that doesnt affect combat).

If you are fine with walkoffs then GIVE ME YOSHIS ISLAND! That stage has the least lame walkoffs in Smash history. You literally can't camp them, because you can't shield grab people below you.

While we all agree with your logic on stage legality, I can't really respect it when its inconsistent. Being fair means all or nothing in this situation. You can't say walkoffs are fine and then ban YI: Pipes. You can't say destructible circle camps are fine and then leave Skyworld and Luigi's Mansion out (and the music here rocks).

Come over one of these days and play with me (online still sucks for this game but ill do that instead if i must) and I can show you what the problem is with these stages and also I can help show which ones are fine that you have left out. I strongly support a liberal stagelist and I want to help you create a sound one, but what you have now is pretty bad for the game.

 

[BlueBirdE]

Wish I got the smash bundle. regretting now since I can't find an adapter im stuck playing with the 3ds and pro controller. Hopefully I can get some practice in with one before the 6th.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Yeah Allan I'd replace both of those with at least the Duck Hunt stage. They are seriously bad man. You're 2 away from an amazing list.

And I've gotten the Wuhu boat before. Just didn't know there was that bug to kill you at 0.

 

[Teshie U]

Duck Hunt and YIipes would be good CPs for Mac without duplicating the same issues like miiverse/omegas do.

 

[Teshie U]

Anyone else notice that the solution to 90% of the complaints about this game are all in custom equipment (which ruins it).

Smooth Lander reducing landing lag
Hard Braker making dashes more powerful.
Shields recharge slower.
Reduce the potency of dodging.
Shorter short hops.
Increase air and ground speed.
Random tripping
Decrease edge grab duration.

Whats a real shame is that these could have all been cool ideas to expand special Smash.

 

[alex mora]

step 1: learn to CP
step 2: learn to stage ban
step 3: regardless of circle camping, ganon is the worst character and will lose the MU


Also, unless i missed something, i sat on Skyloft for 7min straight and noticed nothing bad other than it transforms alot. but thats the normal now ever since brawl.

yo so i was playing skyloft and the part with the waterfall sucks lol they watter shoots you down if you get in it making it impossible to get out. ill ban that stage so fast for counterpicks haha

 

[Xyro77]

I already did and your reasoning is terrible. Big Battle Field for characters who kill easy because they have a harder time? Then how will characters with low/weak kill power kill? That's literally saying "pick this stage to timeout since killing is hard." That is toxic to this game. It's a FIGHTING game, not a time out game.

Characters with low or weak killing power wont be taking others there unless they feel like the stage is WORSE for the opponent than the person picking the stage. Literally, straight from the book called "counter picking 101."

Also, as told in a previous post by me or in real life, timeouts are a valid part of sports, video games and other things. Just because its not enjoyable or "fun" to watch doesnt negate its validity.

1. Can we get 2 bans since this list is so expansive? I always ban FD against Sonic and don't want to waste it on something stupid like BBF or Boxing Ring

Welcome to counter picking 101.

1. learn to CP characters
2. Learn to apply your ban on the stage you feel you have the WORST time on.
3. Get better at the rest of the stages.

edit: the point of an expansive list is so that many many characters have many many options. yet again, (but expected) you new gens who only have Brawl exp have not even the slightest understanding in how CP systems work or their meaning.

2. I'm not playing a character I dislike just to timeout each other (it will happen).

Then you will have a difficult time in Smash 4.

Most anybody you talk to will agree that this game is going to require 1-3 characters. 1 character cannot go even/counter all 49 (soon to be 50) characters. People in brawl specifically pick up MK for the ditto or pika for falco/snake/DDD....ect. In melee, more so that not, people have a fox or falco as a 2ndary. Hell, even some traditional fighters do this type of thing.

3. Same reasoning. And 15? seconds of speed with down time won't win that game lol. You're telling someone to use Shulk speed under a 7 minute timer giving him ~3.5 minutes to use it. Ridiculous as you won't be hitting the opponent all the time. Plus you have reduced jumping under speed. What if they jump on the top platform? CMON MAN.

If sonic gets on the lights, break it and watch him fall or spin away. Race to him and punish. If he air dodges into the ground, the new smash 4 mechanics will guarantee he cannot powershield the moment he lands. You have 15 seconds to do this. if you fail. you got more time to do it again. Shulk speed is as fast or faster than sonic. Proving he can catch sonic and punish him. If you cant catch sonic and get the lead in a 7min match, you have more issues than chasing sonic, you flat or need to get good with shulk.

4. Platforms make it EASY to avoid and they also stop some projectiles. Lol this is so big that it's not even a good cp.

try all my options (i know you havent) and then come say that.

5. So keep a percent lead...aka make sure you have the ability to time out. Toxic.

Welcome to the real world of competition.

Can't even begin to see how these are legal when this like Duck Hunt stage aren't.

I honestly thought you over sensitive new gen babies would burn down houses if i left that stage legal. I can most def allow it if yall like it. the more the better.

Xyro, to be honest I think you don't understand this game enough yet and are making assumptions based on outdated or incorrect ideas.

You dont understand TO-ing or how TOs think, Counter picking, how players think (or dont think lol) so i doubt you are even remotely close to being right on what you think is "out dated" or "incorrect.' LMAO your first competitive smash game was BRAWL.

You want people to destroy something that respawns in 15 seconds to stop circle camping? What a joke. By this logic, you should also add Skyworld to the legal list. Destroying that stage gives you a few moments of combat too. Hell Luigi's mansion is also a destructible circle camp.

Again, you are using YOUR logic and applying it to MY methods. it doesnt work like that.

15 is plenty of time.

Btw, id love for Luigi's to be legal. We took luigis away in brawl because of MK but since thats over id be all for bringing the stage back.

You want fun stages on? Where is pokemon stadium? Did you even play the game long enough to unlock it? FFS, if you are gonna allow jank stages that people will complain about, at least make it fun stages that can speed up gameplay. Not campfests or huge stages that will cause aggressive matchups to go to time.

Its not about what i think is "fun." More proof you have no idea what im thinking/doing.

I have every stage but the last one (flat zone X). Id love Pkmn 2 to be legal but again i thought yall would call Obama if i let it be legal. Im honestly holding back on the stage list.

And people will complain about anything. You are living proof.

Where is Duck Hunt? Its just an ugly FD stage with a series of platforms on the stage (and a really fun minigame that doesnt affect combat).

im all for that stage.

If you are fine with walkoffs then GIVE ME YOSHIS ISLAND! That stage has the least lame walkoffs in Smash history. You literally can't camp them, because you can't shield grab people below you.

im good with that stage too. i thought yall would commit suicide if i allowed it.

While we all agree with your logic on stage legality, I can't really respect it when its inconsistent. Being fair means all or nothing in this situation. You can't say walkoffs are fine and then ban YI: Pipes. You can't say destructible circle camps are fine and then leave Skyworld and Luigi's Mansion out (and the music here rocks).

Being consistent is not a requirement of making a good legal stage list.

Come over one of these days and play with me (online still sucks for this game but ill do that instead if i must) and I can show you what the problem is with these stages and also I can help show which ones are fine that you have left out. I strongly support a liberal stagelist and I want to help you create a sound one, but what you have now is pretty bad for the game.

No offense, man but 2 things....

1. I have no idea who i like so i have no idea of the inner workings of any character. so timing me out or circle camping me will only proved you camped/timeout out a dude who doesnt have a main/doesnt know his character.

2. piggy backing on #1, i HATE mega man. i have no idea what to do vs a fast close range projectile that stop all my attacks. its never been in any smash game before and i need tons of lab time to figure something out.

 

[Xyro77]

TLDR^

Ill add and/or replace stages. I will not have a shorter list than what i have now. Accept these terms or just dont go to TGC if it bothers you. It saves you frustration and saves me your uneducated self entitled cry-baby new gen attitudes. I believe that is called a "win-win" situation.

edit: i cant WAIT to see you guys thank me for doing this 5 years from now. When this game boils down to 5 characters and 5 stages you will LONG for the days where nearly every character was viable and we have 30 legal stages. it happens every time.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Me and RT just did some friendlies on Boxing Ring WITHOUT CAMPING. It is simply way too big. With 7 minute timer it is going to a minute and under. PLEASE DO NOT LET THIS BE LEGAL FOR SINGLES.

The lights are only gone for 5 seconds LOL cmon man. Make duck hunt stage legal and get rid of those 2 PLEASE. Or just put them for doubles.

 

[Xyro77]

Me and RT just did some friendlies on Boxing Ring WITHOUT CAMPING. It is simply way too big. With 7 minute timer it is going to a minute and under. PLEASE DO NOT LET THIS BE LEGAL FOR SINGLES.

The lights are only gone for 5 seconds LOL cmon man. Make duck hunt stage legal and get rid of those 2 PLEASE. Or just put them for doubles.

Please refer to post #4016 and more importantly #4017

Also my left eye brow was literally ripped open tonight and i have terrible head pains right now. im done arguing for the night.

 

[UltimateRazer]

I already did. They are **** for singles. They are literally designed for 8 player smash. Put duck hunt stage and ps2 legal for those 2 or just make them legal for doubles.

Disinfect it and feel better.

 

[Xyro77]

I already did. They are **** for singles. They are literally designed for 8 player smash. Put duck hunt stage and ps2 legal for those 2 or just make them legal for doubles.

Disinfect it and feel better.

if people are ok for those two to be switched out for DuckHunt/Pkmn 2, ill do it.

i put peroxide on it and neo-sporin (sp?). Hurts so bad.

 

[Shaya]

Xyro sees competitive smash as a counterpicking game.
It's pretty old-styled, but is completely fair to have. Most 'players' are of this fighting game ideal at this stage.

Neither are bad, actually a counterpicking game is quite fun (although often imbalanced), but to most people a 'fighting game' which requires you knowing how to use multiple characters to cover different issues is asinine/crazy/time wasting/stupid/etc.

Anyway, sounds like Xyro willing to compromise!
Take out those two stages you don't like for Yoshi's Island and Duck Hunt.

Also Xyro, you should probably get horizontal. Ice Pack for numbing it a bit if you can.

 

[Teshie U]

take out big battlefield, wii fit studio and boxing ring,

put in duck hunt, YIipes, ps2

I don't have to play mega-man (a character im good with) to beat you in these absurd situations. thats exactly the point. these stages ruin EVERY matchups.

Counterpicking gives you an advantage in a matchup, its not meant to ruin every single matchup. Thats the problem with walkoffs and circles. It devolves the game into "im faster i win" or "i hit you first, i win".

Timing out is legitimate when you have to work for it. If you make something too easy, its starts to become pretty damn fraudulent and not skillful at all.

We can make a stagelist BIGGER and BETTER than the one you have now.

Starters:
Omegas/FD
Battlefield/Miiverse
Duck Hunt (stage is super ugly, but its frankly very fair in design)
Kongo Jungle
Lylat
Town and City
Smashville

Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Yoshi's Island Pipes (cant camp sloped walkoffs for much of a benefit unless you use olimar)
Wuhu Island


Boxing Ring isn't even remotely usable, the lights come back waaaaaaaaaaay too fast and the stage sucks for so many other reason anyway.

@ Razer, are you at all worried about doubles potentially boiling down to singles on a degenerate singles stage? BBF and Boxing Ring are still VERY big for 2v2. I hear that "make it doubles only" alot and I don't get why that would be an option.

 

[UltimateRazer]

I love counter picking but those 2 stages make it nearly impossible to play in singles. CPing them just to time out is TOXIC to this competition. Duck Hunt stage is seriously fine. Switch that in no matter what. PS2 is iffy but better than those garbage maps for singles. I say make them legal for dubs.

Tesh because one team is going to come out losing those 1v1s and should immediately go back to helping each other. 4 people on those stages > only 2.

Yeah Allan just watch for it and don't let anything get in it. Is it DEEP? If so it could require stitches. Depends on how many layers of skin was cut open.

 

[Xyro77]

Xyro sees competitive smash as a counterpicking game.
It's pretty old-styled, but is completely fair to have. Most 'players' are of this fighting game ideal at this stage.

Neither are bad, actually a counterpicking game is quite fun (although often imbalanced), but to most people a 'fighting game' which requires you knowing how to use multiple characters to cover different issues is asinine/crazy/time wasting/stupid/etc.

Anyway, sounds like Xyro willing to compromise!
Take out those two stages you don't like for Yoshi's Island and Duck Hunt.

Yes, where i come from (early melee), we treated smash as a party game that we turned into a make shift fighting game. I use the term "fighting game" loosely because we tried to not be like the FGC (traditional/mainstream fighters) but we still wanted that competitiveness feeling while still being unique. Over the years and as more new gens come in, they see what the FGC has and wants to mimic them. Be it money, fame, respect....etc.....but it comes at the expense of the game and they do not care and/or see it. I refuse to take part in that. What was done in melee is not perfect by any means (nothing is, really) but it worked. In fact, Melee and what happened back then is why ssb64 has a competitive scene and it is also why brawl took off as i did. Meaning the smash gods of old set a CP system in place that work for all future games after a few small tweaks. i am simply carrying on the proven system while adding in the "tweaks"

 

[Xyro77]

take out big battlefield, wii fit studio and boxing ring,

put in duck hunt, YIipes, ps2

WiiFit Studio stays. CGs (brawl) and fox waveshine (melee) are why walk off were banned. Both dont exist in this game so walk offs are fine. I can take out BBF, Boxing Ring and add the other 3. That works.

I don't have to play mega-man (a character im good with) to beat you in these absurd situations. thats exactly the point. these stages ruin EVERY matchups.

I dont know the inner workings of my characters (palutena/samus/marth). 1 is new and the other 2 lost so much i dont know what to do. so of course you could time me out of circle camp. wait till i decide on a character and learn him/her before i go through this.

Counterpicking gives you an advantage in a matchup, its not meant to ruin every single matchup.

Counter picking is more than just giving advantages/disadvantages. its sometimes about evening the field (no advantages) or allowing certain non broken strats to exist or allowing more characters to be viable.

Thats the problem with walkoffs and circles. It devolves the game into "im faster i win" or "i hit you first, i win".

Not fun to watch or be hit with but all are valid.

Timing out is legitimate when you have to work for it. If you make something too easy, its starts to become pretty damn fraudulent and not skillful at all.

"fraudulent" and "not skillful" is relative.

also, "working for it" isn't a requirement of timing someone out. it would be nice if it was but its not. its part of life/games.

Boxing Ring isn't even remotely usable, the lights come back waaaaaaaaaaay too fast and the stage sucks for so many other reason anyway.

i disagree but if i get 3 stages for dropping 2, im cool with it.

 

[UltimateRazer]

F NO TO YOSHI ISLAND. 2 FOR 2 LIKE YOU SAID. Duck Hunt and PS2 instead of those 2 giant ones.

 

[Shaya]

In a game with patches for balance, it may ultimately be ideal for players to just be comfortable with the game rather than characters. A counterpicking [stages] game will be the semblance of 'status quo' that competitive players can hold onto.

What I think sullies/imbalances the counterpicking focus game is at foremost balance (which in S4's case by some standards is perhaps the best in the series) then the tournament system itself. This "Starter"/"Neutral" idea is the real kicker/****ter/thing that stinks about the original system that irks me to no end and stops it from ever reflourishing as the ideal competitive format. When counterpicks are so broad in possibilities [and are seen as 'free wins' by initial scrub response] the emphasis on the starter is so extreme that its ********, when players's psyches tell them (and it's true) that losing the first match is guaranteeing them elimination/knock out they all focus on just being able to win the first match, and if winning the set is impossible if you lose the first game, then players will coerce TOs into making the counter picks more inline with their "most played on environment". Follow that with double elimination formats that are best of 3s and a lot of things are just scary and IMO needlessly stressful to players.

A player wants to adapt to a character/strategy they aren't used to, but they have to win the first match lest the third is worthless (most likely) anyway.
If the 'starter' was actually the finisher, in other words we have a system of 1 counter pick each and if the set is 1-1 it goes to a 'starter stage' will be more feasible for a player's mindset, they get an opportunity to adapt while still having the possibility of bringing it back. The way we have it now this isn't the case.

 

[Xyro77]

Yeah Allan just watch for it and don't let anything get in it. Is it DEEP? If so it could require stitches. Depends on how many layers of skin was cut open.

I have no idea how deep it truly is but it looks deep imo. Maybe im just scaring myself cause i already passed out after looking at it. im a wimp when it comes to blood and bodily functions/fluids.

What if i dont get stiches? i dont have the money or insurance for that kind of thing.

 

[z00ted]

LMAOOOOOOOO

 

[Xyro77]

In a game with patches for balance, it may ultimately be ideal for players to just be comfortable with the game rather than characters. A counterpicking [stages] game will be the semblance of 'status quo' that competitive players can hold onto.

i really hope the patches stop. i want SMASH (no patches) and not another Project TRASH (nothing but patches).

What I think sullies/imbalances the counterpicking focus game is at foremost balance (which in S4's case by some standards is perhaps the best in the series) then the tournament system itself. This "Starter"/"Neutral" idea is the real kicker/****ter/thing that stinks about the original system that irks me to no end and stops it from ever reflourishing as the ideal competitive format. When counterpicks are so broad in possibilities [and are seen as 'free wins' by initial scrub response] the emphasis on the starter is so extreme that its ********, when players's psyches tell them (and it's true) that losing the first match is guaranteeing them elimination/knock out they all focus on just being able to win the first match, and if winning the set is impossible if you lose the first game, then players will coerce TOs into making the counter picks more inline with their "most played on environment". Follow that with double elimination formats that are best of 3s and a lot of things are superfluous if not confined to a really small subset by most player's logic.

Just because you lose the first match does not mean you will lose the set. Sure it puts a strain on you mentally but that is more of a mindset hurdle than a physical/character skill based one. I dont think it has anything to do with our system

 

[UltimateRazer]

I have no idea how deep it truly is but it looks deep imo. Maybe im just scaring myself cause i already passed out after looking at it. im a wimp when it comes to blood and bodily functions/fluids.

What if i dont get stiches? i dont have the money or insurance for that kind of thing.

Hmm just keep it on watch and not infected with the peroxide and neosporum for tonight. See how it looks and feels tomorrow. I think it should heal, just might take a little bit and since it's so big make sure to prevent infection. Idk how much stitches would cost. I imagine not much but this is the US of A so idk. Also make Duck Hunt legal for those other 2 stages and healing will be faster.

 

[Xyro77]

 

[Xyro77]

 

[Xyro77]

it hurts man and i dont know how to patch myself up. i kinda wish i learned from my Sl*t ex-wife when i had the chance

 

[Shaya]

i really hope the patches stop. i want SMASH (no patches) and not another Project TRASH (nothing but patches).



Just because you lose the first match does not mean you will lose the set. Sure it puts a strain on you mentally but that is more of a mindset hurdle than a physical/character skill based one. I dont think it has anything to do with our system

I just think it's needlessly stressful that a player has to adapt to a character within the first 3 stocks of a set, lest there is a huge mental and statistical burden on them. Have the system with counterpicks first and a 'starter' last in the case of going 1-1 and it'll be healthier for both the players and the game itself in my opinion.

Anyway, don't bother replying to this (now), it's mostly food for thought and you may need stitches.

 

[Teshie U]

Respecting the CP system doesn't mean we have to allow every mindless tactic that pops up.

When you do that, you wind up breaking the CP system you are trying to protect.

"Working for it" is kind of an important part of any competition worth putting work into. Otherwise you might as well let us CP sudden death mode.

I'm actually suggesting to add far more stages than what you had.

Coliseum is also pretty big and the transformations only make it worse. If you want a big stage, give us Norfair. The transformations actually increase the likelyhood of combat.

 

[UltimateRazer]

I think it should heal on its own. Just keep disinfecting it and be careful. See tomorrow.

 

[Xyro77]

you may need stitches.

where is my free healthcare Obama promised me?

 

[Xyro77]

Respecting the CP system doesn't mean we have to allow every mindless tactic that pops up.

what you call mindless may not be for others. There is no standard definition of what "mindless" is.

When you do that, you wind up breaking the CP system you are trying to protect.

im not. the CP system along with people training to use it weeds out/defeats "mindless" (whatever its perceived to be) stuff.

"Working for it" is kind of an important part of any competition worth putting work into. Otherwise you might as well let us CP sudden death mode.

again, "working for it" needs a definition or standard.

I'm actually suggesting to add far more stages than what you had.

i might add more. for now, ill switch out BBF and BR for PKMN 2 and DuckH. check the rules now.

Coliseum is also pretty big and the transformations only make it worse. If you want a big stage, give us Norfair. The transformations actually increase the likelyhood of combat.

Big stage=counter pick for the reasons i listed ages ago.

I havnt messed with norfair because i assume its just as bad or worse than in brawl. if im wrong, id LOVE to make it legal.

I think it should heal on its own. Just keep disinfecting it and be careful. See tomorrow.

i hope so. i have a meeting at the college tomorrow and it looks like ive been in a fight