Fierce Diety Link For SSBB

[#HBC | marshy]

Yep, even I get tired of arguing at one point, and it seems like none of our opinions are changing, so I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Hyper-Link]

Well Hyper-Link is here so now that's changing

HE CAN EASILY BE BALANCED

Technically Mewtwo is the Pokemon equivalent of Frieza. He can move things with his freakin brain. yet, his *** is one of the weakest character

Ganondorf supposedly a billion time stronger than Mario, yet mario would whoop his ***. And the Fierce Deity is only temporary it lasts as long as your magic lasts, so that can be a weakness right there

I can shield but it takes some timing in the game or somethin. I beat majora's Mask for the first time yesterday, and that Link is so effin amazing.

A moveset can easily be designed, and since all he has is sword swipes and ONE projectile, how the hell is he too powerful? Marth and Sheik aren't god's in their game and look at what they can do

So how are you against a possible Sup[er teired person(He wouldn't be seeing as how top tiers are FAST, and he is not), there's no such thing a slow top Tier. His UpB could be a slower version of Link's Spin Attack mostly used for battle, not for recovery. His Forward B can be a backflip, like the guy above stated allowing you either to dodge attacks, get distance without being a wave dash *****, or similar to Soul Calibur II. attack in Mid air to do a forward slash stab move

Down and B could be a counter like the guy said, since Link has a stance in MM that is perfect for a counter. His B move could be a Sword Charge similar to roy's or better yet, Donkey Kongs

His air moves can be like normal Links, and since his Spin Move is slower, and has a worse recover, similar to Link's on N64, it'd be perfectly balanced for meteor smashes, spikes, etc. So stop being balancing whores, where people like Fox who all they did was fly a plain, get all these IMAGINARY movesets, that never happened in ANY VIDEO GAME. yet a great version of Link who should definatly replace Young Link, who has a muvh better fighting style, original, and much cooler, gets shot down like nothing

 

[Resting_Fox]

Yeah but it seems like people want to avoid having another Marth or Sheik. Although, I think they were made powerful for a reason.

Another argument is that Majora's Mask is too old and if the developers wanted to give FD Link a spot in any Smash it would have been in Melee. But considering Young Link and the other clones probably weren't all that balance-tested. I doubt they wanted to trouble themselves with finding the golden mean of power with Fierce Deity.

Oh, and you can shield with FD Link in MM? Does it have to be times perfectly of something? If so then, I guess a power-shield is still in order for him. But not a regular Shield.

And to whomever said it was stupid, [TDub?] you're just being narrowminded. Having characters that deviate from the original formula will give the game more flavor, while still keeping it simplistic enough to suit it roots.

When you saw Pit and Metaknight do more than two jumps did you think it was stupid? Probably not, because it's true to their characters. Just like not being able to block is true to FD's character. I mean, if they didn't mix things up like that, it would be difficult to make any characters that actually feel different.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

I know FD Link doesn't have a shield, but if he's going to be a more powerful, but more dangerous (worse recovery and no hookshot possible) character, is removing his bubble-shield necessary? Considering everyone in the game excluding Link and Y.Link had a bubble-shield even though they had no real shield, I think that's an unreasonable balance mechanic that would gimp the character too much. Without a shield, he either needs a very spammable Parry or be very fast.


By the way, what if they made FD into an alternate costume for a Sword-Wielding Ganon?

If you think about it, they would be similar characters: Both wield two-handed-swords, and both have a magical projectile. I think this could be very possible. (Keep in mind that "alternate costume" can mean a total change in everything except for physics and the function of the moves).


His B moveset could be something like this:

>B - Swing sword firing a magical projectile. It has a slight stun. If the sword hits, it inflicts more damage. Startup: (2/5), Lag: (3/5)
B - Charge-Sword. Charge up sword. Once charge, it stays like DK's B. Swinging does a wide verticle sweep with a lot of damage. Knockback scales exponentially (does more knockback when charged fully so it's not as effectively spammable) while damage scales linearly. Startup: (2/5), Lag: (3/5)
^B - Swordspin. Has long reach than Links, but less recovery. Startup: (1/5), Lag (3/5)
\/B - Sword-Plant. Plant sword in ground. All foes next to you are blown away. Startup: (2/5), Lag (4/5).
\/B if he doesn't have a shield - Parry. This brief move reflects back projectiles and blocks attacks. Startup: (0/5), Lag if successful: (0/5), Lag if failure: (4/5)

 

[Resting_Fox]

Well, you did forget one other thing about alternate costumes. They have to have the same size so their hitboxes and character models behave the same in battle.

Now, I wouldn't complain about FD Link being the same size as Ganondorf, but, I donno, maybe alternate costumes should always be the same character. Maybe...

But then again. There's Dark Samus, Starwolf, Daisy, Ike/Roy etc. who could all be fine costumes for their counterparts. So you may be onto something.

But the reason I figured FD Link shoudl have no block is because he'd still be god tier in battle, but he'd only be activated by Young Link's super, and then deactivated after taking a certain amount of damage, so skilled players could remain in the form theoretically to the end of the battle. But of course the lack of shield and only 4-5 means of avoiding [Backflip, Sidestep, Roll, Counter [WD?] would probably bring him down in after a reasonable spell of godliness.

I still say it's the best way to implement him, But I like your idea too, Android. And I'd be perfectly happy playing FD Link as a clone of Zweihanding Ganondorf. But think. Does that movelist you made fit Ganondorf as well as FD Link? Or should Ganondorf have different B's and be able to transform into Ganon? But I could see where you're coming from with that Raw Power feel both characters have.

Maybe, we should synthesize here. We give FD Link Ganondorf's new A-Moves, based on the two-handed sword. Make his B-moves unique, and still keep him accessible only through Young Link.

Just sayin' man. Just sayin'

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Just sayin'? More like starting another argument, which we said we'd stop.

What makes FD Link deserve to be in the game? We need ORIGINAL characters to be in Brawl, which there are a lot of that deserve to be in this too. We know there probably aren't going to be a lot of more character additions, maybe 10 or 15 if we're lucky.

Think of ALL of Nintendo's franchises that aren't getting enough representation or their new ones.
We have Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, that's the whole triforce and maybe 1 more original addition from LoZ. Plenty of others deserve to be in this over him so he shouldn't be a playable character.

Now, for that idea about Young Link being able to transform for his super, I'm ok with it as long as he's a clone of Ganondorf so they wouldn't have to take too much time to make his moveset.

 

[Silpheed]

Just sayin'? More like starting another argument, which we said we'd stop.

What makes FD Link deserve to be in the game? We need ORIGINAL characters to be in Brawl, which there are a lot of that deserve to be in this too. We know there probably aren't going to be a lot of more character additions, maybe 10 or 15 if we're lucky.

Think of ALL of Nintendo's franchises that aren't getting enough representation or their new ones.
We have Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, that's the whole triforce and maybe 1 more original addition from LoZ. Plenty of others deserve to be in this over him so he shouldn't be a playable character.

Now, for that idea about Young Link being able to transform for his super, I'm ok with it as long as he's a clone of Ganondorf so they wouldn't have to take too much time to make his moveset.

^Tottaly agree. Giving him another spot entirely, would be foolish. Transformation = win.

 

[TDub301]

Well Hyper-Link is here so now that's changing

HE CAN EASILY BE BALANCED

Technically Mewtwo is the Pokemon equivalent of Frieza. He can move things with his freakin brain. yet, his *** is one of the weakest character

Ganondorf supposedly a billion time stronger than Mario, yet mario would whoop his ***. And the Fierce Deity is only temporary it lasts as long as your magic lasts, so that can be a weakness right there

I can shield but it takes some timing in the game or somethin. I beat majora's Mask for the first time yesterday, and that Link is so effin amazing.

A moveset can easily be designed, and since all he has is sword swipes and ONE projectile, how the hell is he too powerful? Marth and Sheik aren't god's in their game and look at what they can do

So how are you against a possible Sup[er teired person(He wouldn't be seeing as how top tiers are FAST, and he is not), there's no such thing a slow top Tier. His UpB could be a slower version of Link's Spin Attack mostly used for battle, not for recovery. His Forward B can be a backflip, like the guy above stated allowing you either to dodge attacks, get distance without being a wave dash *****, or similar to Soul Calibur II. attack in Mid air to do a forward slash stab move

Down and B could be a counter like the guy said, since Link has a stance in MM that is perfect for a counter. His B move could be a Sword Charge similar to roy's or better yet, Donkey Kongs

His air moves can be like normal Links, and since his Spin Move is slower, and has a worse recover, similar to Link's on N64, it'd be perfectly balanced for meteor smashes, spikes, etc. So stop being balancing whores, where people like Fox who all they did was fly a plain, get all these IMAGINARY movesets, that never happened in ANY VIDEO GAME. yet a great version of Link who should definatly replace Young Link, who has a muvh better fighting style, original, and much cooler, gets shot down like nothing

Whoa whoa whoa buddy, relax a little, you're too hyper. You taken your ridelin today? Just kidding, you set yourself up for it, don't take it personal. First off, we can never ignore the balance of the game. Balance is one of the things that makes the game so good. If it weren't balanced as much as it is, it would lose a lot of it's appeal. That being said, I have faith that the developers know how to do that regardless of what character they put in. Yes, some characters are better than others in certain ways, but it's not impossible to win with any character, it's still mostly based on the skill of the player. So yes, I'm gonna be a "balance *****".

 

[TDub301]

Second, Fierce Diety Link, if he's true to his character, will have godly powers. You said yourself that he's ****ing awesome. He should easily be the strongest character in the game and probably one of the fastest as well. Unless they made him an unlockable boss, but then people who use his character wouldn't be taken as a good player because they always use a character that is "effing amazing". Sort of like using Minion in Twisted Metal.

Third, Mewtwo's performance in Melee is an embarressment to him and his fans. He should be the most powerful character in that game, hands down. He's so strong in the pokemon games it's ridiculous. What did they do? In the name of balancing him out, they toned him down, a lot. I never thought that was a good idea when I found out and still don't like it. I don't want to see another Mewtwo with FD Link, don't want Nintendo to make that mistake again.

Fourth, if FD Link only lasts as long as your magic does, wouldn't that even be a further argument for him not to be a separate character? Wouldn't that be support for him being a transformation of Link or Young Link? He was never meant to be a permanent character and he's not supposed to last that long.

Fifth, no one ever said it would be hard to make a moveset for FD Link. He's already a fighter in his game and they could take a lot of those moves straight from the game and make a quick workable moveset. You have to understand that Fox never got out of his Arwing before Melee came out, except in multiplayer SF 64 and he only ran around a shot a BFG. So since they wanted to put him in the game, they had no choice but to make up a completely new moveset for him. What else could they do? Just have him walk around and shoot that gun in Smash and nothing else? Doesn't make much sense.

Sixth, that being said, I don't think his air moves should be the same as Link. They have 2 different weapons and a different feel so I don't think they should have the same air moves.

Seventh, Yes Ganondorf is much stronger than Mario, but he's also a lot slower and laggy. It's called balance, which is why if a good player is Mario he'd be able to beat Ganondorf and a good player is Ganondorf he'd be able to beat Mario. Few characters really have a huge advantage over everyone else and even though they do, it's not like it's impossible to beat them if you're good enough. But Mario isn't a particularly high-tiered character by any means so him fighting Ganondorf should be a pretty good fight.

Eigth, despite what Resting Fox says, I'm not against him being in the game. I'm just against him being a separate character because it's not gonna be good either way and that's taking up room for other characters who could be good. Furthermore, I don't want to have different versions of the same character repeated in the game either. Now if they did put him in as a separate character, I'd hope that they at least take out Young Link, why do we need 3 versions of Link? I just don't like it in my opinion because of what I just said, room for other characters being taken up.

Ninth, Mewtwo and Frieza are in no way alter egos in their respective stories. Aside from having a similar color scheme, they don't have any distinctive features in common. I only say this because a lot of characters in DBZ can levitate objects, teleport, destroy worlds, etc. It is common and Frieza is only considered powerful during that part of the story. After they leave Namek, he gets his *** handed to him.

and finally,

Tenth, where have you been? Your name would indicate that you are a big Link fan, did you not see this post earlier? We've already talked about all this stuff in one way or another on this post and agreed that there's not much more to say and we're not getting anywhere anymore. I think it's time to retire this thread, it's now just recycled points being repeated over and over. What do you think McFox?

 

[Resting_Fox]

Actually, The Fierce Deity mask could still be worn without magic. Hyper Link was wrong and I just forgot to correct him because I got lost in his massive text.

But I wouldn't go saying this topic's dead. Hyper Link DID bring a new idea to the table. And you never know when someone might bring more. Honestly, I'm waiting for Hyper-Link to reply to my post, so if you don't like this topic anymore just don't post in it. That's the way forums work.

P.S. I wasn't starting an argument, it seemed more like a communal brainstorm to me. Notice my tone was not the least argumentative?

 

[TDub301]

He didn't bring any new ideas to the table, which one are you talking about? If I need to I'll go back and look for when it was mentioned and quote it for you. This post is 12 pages long buddy, everything he said has already been mentioned (in different words, but the same points). We've already started repeating ourselves many pages back. In it's essence, the argument started on the first page, really. It's ok, there's not much difference between arguing and brainstorming, just that in arguing people want their ideas to be implemented or at least given credit and in brainstorming they're just throwing them out there. I like to think of it as educated debates of a common topic that we all love. I think everything you guys are saying is very valid, though, and in the end I really don't care that much, I just want to pass the time until I'm off work and meet fellow smashers. (I'd play the hell out of FD Link if he was in the game, I just don't want him toned down most of all and fear they will do that to him).

 

[Deleted member]

Link is cool, but like everything else in the universe, too much can be bad thing.

 

[kaid]

I like the thought of FD Link as a costume for Gannondorf. We know Gannon's going to be in the game, being the main villian of Nintendo's 2nd most popular series. By making FD link a costume, like peole have suggested for Doctor Mario, we don't waste character slots on unimaginative movesets.

 

[Cuj0]

I like the thought of FD Link as a costume for Gannondorf. We know Gannon's going to be in the game, being the main villian of Nintendo's 2nd most popular series. By making FD link a costume, like peole have suggested for Doctor Mario, we don't waste character slots on unimaginative movesets.

link is link!!!!! not gannon!!! what r u people gonna thonk of next!

 

[kaid]

If the shoe (or in this case, moveset) fits, wear it.

 

[Black/Light]

. . . The only new Link I want is Wolf Link. Anything other new Link is just on needed imo. (IMO)


BUUUTTT they could make him a really cheap boss. That would work seeing as how he has demon god power.

 

[wakerofthewinds]

have you people ever seen da video for SSBB? Where Mario grabs this item on the ground and erupts in fire? Where Link is pounding Mario between 2 Triforces? Well, Y. Link could pick up an item and temporarily turn into Oni-Link!

 

[Hyper-Link]

Well we don't know if specials transform you to transformations yet, so that's debatable. I'd actually prefer that specils have you trasnform and u just get stronger other than DBZ ike animated super moves(Nothing wrong, but transformations would be better)

Now since everyone's been dying for me to reply(I feel so special)

ahem....

Now on Soul calibur II, Link could use his Biggoron sword. So I think that in fighting games, removing someone's blocking ability is a little too far. However, I think he couldn't block as long or something

So if FD Link was in, I think removing his shield is a little too drastic, BUT you could give him a shield they dissolves much fast when hit.

And I really think we need more ORIGINAL style characters. Some people on this forum are too open minded

We need more flying characters like Pit Metaknight

We need more people that have a super second jump, but no third jump like Yoshi.
We need to have characters that have semi special abilities, like Link's Hylian shield.

And I FD Link and Ganondorf are too completely different people. And since I don't remember Ganondorf using his sword in Oot(I could be wrong, it's been a while), a sword for Ganon isn't gauranteed.

And Plus Ganon did all kids of magical moves. FD Link is basically a cosmetically changed adult Linkm with a Cosemtically changed Biggoron sword, which could shoot these blue energy buble things ONLY when locked on

And him being god like is NOT an issue. And even though DBZ people are very powerful, super saiyans can not move things with their mind

And Mewtwo and Frieza are both purple and white, are psychic, were both the strongest ****** around when they appeared on their animes, and both have tails, and are both evil

But I can see your point on how Mewtwo was toned down so much he just kinda sucked and didn't respresent his character right.

but at the same time, just because he's a god in his game doesn't mean he'll be some top top tier character. Ganondorf is a god in Oot, and his very strong in OoT, but that doesn't mean a Marth, Link, Mario, Fox, or Shiek cannot stop him. And Nintendo for the most part is good on balancing, so that really shouldn't be the issue

And we are just brainstorming, alotta people say hes just a clone of link, or theres already too many Links. So we are coming up with ways he can be original, without being some super god that beats everyone, but doesnt get ***** by everyone like Mewtwo.

And the only time I argue is when guys like Marshigio just shoot ideas down without backin it up with any legitimate reasons except for "One Link is enough, case closed"

And also, he should not be some Ganondorf clone or costume. There arent even in the same game! And they are completely different people

If hes in he should be a completely original character

 

[TDub301]

Hyper-Link, good response. But I must reiterate that it's all been said already numerous times. That was a good sum-up though. I don't like him being a Ganondorf clone either, nor would I say that Ganon was a god in Ocarina of Time. Very powerful, yes, but I think if the 2 stories were put together, FD Link would own Ganon.
That being said, Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, Piccolo, and several others can levitate objects, I've watched the show and watched it happen. It's not just Frieza by any rate and once they leave Namek, Frieza sucks anyway. But you are right, they both have a tail and are the main bad guy (as long as you only watch the Namek part of DBZ). Except I don't think Mewtwo was evil on Frieza's level, if he even was at all, I don't know if you know what you're talking about after saying the other characters couldn't move objects.
Anyway, I'd be in favor of FD Link either being Y.Link's super or a transformation of him. That shorter shield thing you said seems good to me, too.

 

[Hyper-Link]

I don't know about Piccolo, but the Saiyans(Gku, Gohan, Vegeta) could NOT move objects or levitate things

Maybe it looks like it, when they are screaming for half an hour turning super saiyan and whatnot, and all of a sudden there are dirt and grass and debri and rocks flying around them
But that is not any telekinetic ability. That's just their aura and wind causing that.

I mean if Goku Gohan , Mewtwo and Frieza were standing in a room. And there was a Gamecube controller, and the goal was to make it float over to them, Goku and Gohan would be outta luck. Now they can teleport and run super fast or other methods. But as far as it moving with them just thinking about it frieza and Mewtwo would be the only ones to do it

And I know this cuz I was the biggest DBZ Fan ever and still would be if the show didn't end.
And not just when Frieza and Cell levitated mountains(Well cell is made of Frieza's cells so), but when Goku did the Spirit Bomb on frieza and he came back and lifted krillin up into the sky at will( no one else in DBZ can do that), and then crushed him and blew him up at will(No one else can do that either)

And even though cell and Buu, etc, were much stronger than Frieza, the Namek saga was the highest in quality and story. Frieza at his time was THAT MAN, and NOBODY ****ed with him. He was ruthless killing Nameks for no appearant reason, killed Goku's father, killed the whole race of saiyans, IMPALED Krillin with his horn, etc. No one was scarier than him, not to mention how alienistic is forms looked

Cell was basically Friza with a green grasshopper outfit over it(You can see in his face,) and Buu was okay, but his fat form was gay, and his fighting revolved too much around him being a living peice of bubble gum. but ya frieza was much more evil than mewtwo and anyone else from DBZ for that matter

But before I delve into Dragonball anymore

I can't see how FD Link would trump Ganondorf. Maybe if he could use his light arrows and other skills. But all he can do is use an essentially cooler looking Double Helix sword, and whenever he uses his projectile your magic goes down

As for Ganondorf who can use all kinds of magical blasts at will, from the white kamehameha lookin one, to the dark purple one he used on Link the first time he met him while chasing Zelda and the Sheikah

 

[Deleted member]

Options:

1. Seperate character.
2.. Mask is an item to be used.
3. Special attack for Young Link.
4. Boss (for Ganondorf )

In order of preferance.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Options:

1. Seperate character.
2.. Mask is an item to be used.
3. Special attack for Young Link.
4. Boss (for Ganondorf )
5. Not make an appearance in Brawl for other LoZ characters.

In order of preferance.

There we go, now I understand you WindGuru

 

[Hyper-Link]

What is up with these "bosses" Since when has there been a boss for a specific character?
Let alone that's playabile as a character? Master Hand is the only boss, and Giga Bowser is just Bowser bigger.

2nd they are too lazy to make a Fierce Deity version of every character, and since most of the characters aren't capable of using a Double Helix sword, that's not really gonna happen

if it were at all possible it'd be a seperate character or Young Link's Special

 

[Paranoid_Android]

It could also be an alternate costume (complete with different *looking* moves) for Ganon, seeing as both of them have a 2-handed sword and magical projectiles.

 

[TDub301]

Touche Hyper-Link (for some reason every time I try to quote you it freezes my computer, so I'll stop trying). I guess watching the show I saw the rocks and stuff starting to float and thought they could levitate objects. I still don't think of Frieza and Mewtwo that way, though, Frieza made an army for himself and Mewtwo works alone, right? Is Mewtwo even considered evil? I thought he was just a really powerful pokemon. Anyway, I don't like the idea of FD Link being a costume for Ganondorf, although it does make sense. I just don't think they'd play the same and FD Link should actually be smaller if he's the same size as normal Link. And if Ganondorf was playable in Ocarina of Time, he'd lose magic every time he used those spells, too, it's the boss advantage that he can use it continually. That being said, I still think FD Link would win the fight between them, Ganondorf is powerful, but not godly. And Cell was supposed to be made from cells of all the Z fighters, he was green cuz Piccolo's cells were in too, which was why he could grow limbs back and use the Kamehameha like Goku (and others) aside from the 5 or 6 main fighters being way more powerful than Frieza by the time they were fighting perfect form Cell.

 

[Hyper-Link]

Ya that's true, by the time Cell came they could easily beat frieza. But that's not as important as how scary they were at THIER time. because when they fought Kid Buu they could easily beat cell, and by the time they became Super saiyan 4 Gogeta and beat janemba(The strongest villian in history) and the end of GT, they could've easily beaten Buu.

And ya I guess, ganondorf wasn't a "God" But actually neither was FD Link. When I played as him for the first time last week as I beat Zelda Collector's Edition, he is NOt fast as everyone keeps saying. He runs literally the same speed as Link in Melee. And he's actually closer to Ganondorf's size than Links.

He has ALOT of muscles in his arm and legs similar to Ganondorf's art, and he's a little taller too

Mewtwo was evil, but it WAS Pokemon, and evil on Dragonball Z would make evil on Pokemon look like a tea party. I still haven't seen the movie yet, but he turned Ash into Salt or stone or something, and Mewtwo used his powers to control like everything near him(which was like an army of Blastoises, Venusaurs, Charizards, etc) He even controlled Pikachu, but after Ash became stone Pikachu cried tears and it healed him somehow(WTF!? lol) And somehow mew came and made him not wanna be evil and he flew to an island or teleported away or somethin. And Frieza did have the Ginyu force but that was mostly for entertainment. Him being the most powerful person in the universe, and killing people with one blast gets "boring" so I he had them for things like fighting Nameks and saiyans for him, or testing their strength so he could have a heads up, but mostly for getting the dragonballs so he could truly be immortal.

but back to Link. The Oni Mask, like Ganondorf was powerful but not godly. I was actually semi dissapointed because even though you can easily beat Majora's Mask in that form, it made it too easy, but at the same time he couldn't do much. His spin attack is like 90% useless, because (I think since MM revolves around Link being young the whole game), even against Majora, the spin attack spun too high and misses like 90% of the time. And just essential the Link from OoT with a Biggoron sword, which can shoot essentially a slower light arrow while locked on which uses Magic. And since you can only use the Fierce Deity Mask in a Boss fight( And since the other 2 bosses in the game are faught with the Zora mask and the Goron mask, it's pretty much only used for Majora) And Ganondorf to me, in a Zelda game, be more powerful than fierce Deity Link, who can't really block, and Ganondorf has all these projectiles and magic attacks and plus he can fly and has dark fireballs, etc. Except for his speed, he seems like a DBZ character to me. Plus he froze all the zora's and all the water they live in, killed the Deku tree, turned Zelda's castle to a giant black hovering temply in the sky over Lava. To me he's like Zelda he has so much mysterious magic that no one has seen until the 3-D Zelda days

And it's actually confusing cuz how can some simple Gerudo use Magic powers like that. How can Zelda? Just cuz she's a princess doesn't mean she should be able to transifigure herself to a hermephrodite, lol. Or Ganon doing Big Bang like attacks to Link just while he was young. But one thing he had in common with Frieza was stupidity. If Ganondorf had done a real magic attack on the horse when Link was little and killed him, he'd been ruling Hyrule right now

And back to Pokemon, Mewtwo was considered evil because when he was created he killed several scientists in the lab he was formed in. And no other pokemon in history or ever will be close to evil. So Mewtwo is special

 

[Resting_Fox]

And since you can only use the Fierce Deity Mask in a Boss fight( And since the other 2 bosses in the game are faught with the Zora mask and the Goron mask, it's pretty much only used for Majora)

Wow, you haven't figured out how to beat Gyorg in FD form? It's entirely possible and 100% easy. It's just a matter of spacing and shooting the discs. God, I was glad to get my revenge on that basstard.

And it's actually confusing cuz how can some simple Gerudo use Magic powers like that. How can Zelda? Just cuz she's a princess doesn't mean she should be able to transifigure herself to a hermephrodite, lol.

It's called the Triforce. And it gives everyone except Link magical powers. And I think Sheik is more of an androgyne than a true hermaphrodite. lol

 

[Black/Light]

Hyper-Link, M2 wasn't evil (Look at the whole movie first). He was made in a lab and when he woke his power was soo great he could bearly hold it. He talked to the scientists and fond out that he was a clone of Mew but missed with to be stronger then Mew (Why hes named MewTwo).

He also fond out that they were trying to control him, to make him their slave and I remember him saying "This can not be my distiny". He got pissed when this happened and lost control of his powers (You can't blame him for that, he was a baby with world changing mental power). In the rackage the team rocket leader (who plained this whole thing) fond him and told him they should be friends, that he wouldn't control him. He said he would help him control his power and he did. . . but M2 found out he was trying to control him to so he ran.

With all this bad stuff happening he saw human kind as lieing B@$$$ and tried to over throw them. He had a fight with mew which caused ash to turn to stone. Once he saw that humans wern't all bad and that pokemon wern't all their slaves he changed his ways.

 

[Aiser]

mewtwo was a tragic villian.

 

[TDub301]

Wow, ok, so Mewtwo wasn't evil, just confused and FD Link isn't that fast. I'm learning a lot here, having only seen parts of that pokemon movie and never getting to turn to FD Link in MM cuz I got bored and stopped playing it near the end of the game. I still don't know if they should be alternate costumes, though. It makes sense, but just doesn't seem right to me. Also, I don't think Mewtwo ever started sucking as the story progressed, I don't know anything about pokemon after the original movie and story (not much about that anyway) so I'm not sure cuz there are a lot of new powerful pokemon. But I don't see Mewtwo losing easily to any of the newer ones like Frieza did when the Namek saga was over. But I do see all your points. My stand on FD Link being a transformation of Y. or regular Link still stands, though. Either that or an item any character can pick up and turn to a FD mode of themselves. I don't like him as a separate character.

Also, in the original story, isn't Link trying to get a piece of the triforce away from Ganon? Or trying to recover one that he stole at least? I thought that all three had a piece, wisdom, coourage, and magic, right? My memory is so hazy about that. Didn't Link have the courage one, which was why he always had to be the workhorse dog who went and did the fighting? Then Ganon had stolen the magic one so he could do all the magic stuff and Zelda retained wisdom. I think that's how the original story was, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Hyper-Link]

Hmmm, but since Zelda only has a Piece of the Triforce how can you get magic from that? And after Link became Adult, Didn't Ganondorf have his and Zeldas Triforce?

So howdid Zelda still turn into Sheik and help Link throughout the story?
And ya I guess Mewtwo wasn't really evil, just a Psychic Frankenstein type character

And Mewtwo was the most powerful, but that doesn't mean he could never lose to another Pokemon

Just like Celebi was the 2nd generation version of Mew. Deoxsys is the 3rd generation form of Mewtwo

So that's his counterpart in terms of Psychic. And there also those Legendry birds like Ho-Oh, who can burn Mewtwo to death(detable) or Lugia who has just as much Psychic as Mew2 plus he can fly.

Then there's Groudon and Kyogre who are literally Ice/Water and Fire/Rock Incarnate. Their presents makes it hot/sunny or rainy/flood on the battle field which also makes their attacks stronger.

Plus by the time Pokemon Diamond and Pearl come on the DS, they'll be like 100+ brand new Pokemon.

**** this thread has turned me back into a Pokemon Trainer, lol.
Only thing that stopped me was the show got extremely gay, and my gameboy SP broke, and I don't gotta DS yet, lol

And I never even tried to fight Gyorg yet, now that i think about it, there ARE infinite green magic pots everywhere. Does it also work with that Fish monster that Zora Link had to fight, (Probably not since Link can't really swim)

And wasn't Ganondorf magical before he got the Triforce of Power? Did he even have it when he met Link? Because he did a DBZ type attack on him, and that was when Link and Zelda were still little

And that sucks that Link can't do magic and whatnot

 

[Aiser]

You don't have to be 'evil' to be a villain, but mewtwo was a trajagic villain in the pokemon movie.

 

[Hyper-Link]

Ya cuz he sure as hell wasn't good. just cuz you are confused doesn't mean you trying to destroy humanity is justified, lol

 

[TDub301]

He was good, in the sense that he was looking out for his fellow pokemon. He had a bad disposition, but stopped when he found out not all humans were bad and not all pokemon were slaves, this would mean that he has a good conscience and thus can't be a "bad guy". Oh, and Mewtwo can fly too. You might make me break down and get that GC Pokemon stadium game. Was there a mode where you could basically play the pokemon game and catch them all, or was it just like stadium where you could only fight with ones you had already caught or generic ones? And to me the show was pretty gay when it started, but that's because it's geared for kids and I wasn't a kid anymore when the show started.

Ya, I really don't remember who had what triforce piece, but explaining it that way made sense to me. Link can do magic, he just has to find special items in order to do it, every Legend of Zelda game has magical items for him to use.

 

[Aiser]

He was good, in the sense that he was looking out for his fellow pokemon. He had a bad disposition, but stopped when he found out not all humans were bad and not all pokemon were slaves, this would mean that he has a good conscience and thus can't be a "bad guy". Oh, and Mewtwo can fly too. You might make me break down and get that GC Pokemon stadium game. Was there a mode where you could basically play the pokemon game and catch them all, or was it just like stadium where you could only fight with ones you had already caught or generic ones? And to me the show was pretty gay when it started, but that's because it's geared for kids and I wasn't a kid anymore when the show started.

He was a villain though, he fit the villain persona, he was just tragic, in his mind it was justfiable, however he was wrong. was he evil? no. but most tragic villains arn't evil.

 

[Black/Light]

He was a villain though, he fit the villain persona, he was just tragic, in his mind it was justfiable, however he was wrong. was he evil? no. but most tragic villains arn't evil.

Yes, I would have to agree with this statement. He was a villain in the movie even thouth he was just a confused child.

He has also been the ONLY pokemon to be given the title "The most powerful Pokemon" so yeah. . . Ill go with what Nintendo says and say hes the most powerful pokemon. (And H-Link, M2 CAN fly.)

 

[Hyper-Link]

Actually he only called Most Powerful pokemon WHEn it was that time. Just like frieza was the most powerful being in DBZ during THAT time period.

And Deoxysys can do everything Mewtwo can do, is a psychic type, and was also "MADE" in a lab

And the game you are talkin about is Pokemon Colloseum. yes it actually had an RPG like mode, but it isn't the tradional sense. You have to catch evil pokemon and turn them "good", then in turn they level up etc, now it isn't as good as a full adventure, but it's still better thanjust having the Pokemon stadium battles like on 64

And when that show first came out, it was the **** to me. I compared what it was like when I was in 5th grade(When it started), to when i stopped watching it last year(11th grade) And it went from more anime lookin style, the buzz was all around it back then, and they actually had worthwile watching battles. Like when Pikachu had to fight Riachu and got his *** *****, and then Ash trained with him unnaturally increasing his natural electricity, and he went back and BEAT THE **** outta Lt. Surge's Raichu

Then towards 2004-2005(when I stopped watching, they revolve the whole episode around their being a sick Sunflora, and he spends the whole **** episode cheering it up, and then at the end there's some gay festival where all the sunflora's dance. And it hit me right there, that Pokemon(The show, not the Gameboy games) has gotten officially gay

And ya I meant that Mewtwo could fly, musta been a typo

*Back to Zelda*

I actually think that as far as movesets go, Zora Link would be better choice than any of the other Links. He can do alot like use his elbow fin as shield, shoot his fins off for dual boomerangs, swim extremely fast and jumped like a dolphin, he could do good on land battles just like normal Link, and plus he had the blue electric barrier thing which is the best Link move ever

 

[Black/Light]

I dont think that Deoxy can do everything Mewtwo can. He is strong but he didn't do everything Mewtwo did in his movie. Thats what Nintendo said and, unlike DBZ, they didnt update the "most powerful pokemon" title so it stays unchanged. They are very close in power yet Nintendo has yet to say Deoxy is the most powerful. (Could be a pretty good movie fight. . . but then Ash would get in the middle like in the first 1.)

And Deoxy came from outer-space as a virus. When exposed to a laser it transformed into a pokemon. They didnt really plain for that to happen as aposed to Mew2 having an intire team for people working around the clock to make him.

 

[kaid]

Deoxis vs Mewtwo is Evolution vs Inteligent Design. Deoxis specilizes, has weaknesses, but also strengths, whereas Mewtwo is as powerful as possible in ALL areas at once.

 

[Duopierce]

I trust that if HAL decided to include him, they would balance him out effectively and give him a unique and fun move set that would make him fit in very well with the rest of the cast.

However, I'm positive Brawl is only going to include newer Zelda character incarnations, being that of Minish Cap and Twilight Princess.