Don't use Lucas (or Ness) in tournaments

[NESSBOUNDER]

It's probably also way too late to notify Nintendo about this problem and hope they fix it in the PAL version of the game. Ness and Lucas are pretty much doomed it seems...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Honestly, can at least a rule be placed that if you grab Ness or Lucas, you must always attempt to throw them?

I honestly don't see how that isn't possible, since considering the circumstances, no Ness or Lucas player would intentionally struggle out of a grab. This gives more than enough time for the other player to get a throw in. The game was meant to be played where you would throw someone before they could break free. Then I dunno, you set like a general rule that against Ness or Lucas, you are permitted 1 grab attack for every 20 or so% your opponent has?

Oh hai Inui. =P

 

[Galeon]

From what I've seen, Ness and Lucas get picked up off the ground by Marth so it takes longer to get out of the grab cause they have to hit the ground first.

I've seen a Metaknight get regrabbed by Marth but he got out after the next grab by di'ing away.

You can DI marth's grab by simply di'ing away consistently. You'll probably take like 2-3 grabs before you're far enough away though.

And everyone definitely can't do it to Ness and Lucas. You're just being silly if you think that. I go against a really good Marth and he does this strat to my Lucas. It really doesn't make THAT huge of a difference as long as you know how to escape.

Adjust and stop complaining. You make it sound like Lucas's "not get grabbed" game is awful. If you want to complain about why Lucas is going to get wrecked by something in tournaments, the grab shouldn't be on your list.

 

[Kowbrainz]

Honestly, can at least a rule be placed that if you grab Ness or Lucas, you must always attempt to throw them?

I honestly don't see how that isn't possible, since considering the circumstances, no Ness or Lucas player would intentionally struggle out of a grab. This gives more than enough time for the other player to get a throw in. The game was meant to be played where you would throw someone before they could break free. Then I dunno, you set like a general rule that against Ness or Lucas, you are permitted 1 grab attack for every 20 or so% your opponent has?

No, the rules would get far too complicated and stupid.
What if the opponent made a mistake and pressed the wrong button? Pressed it too many times by accident? Would you make a rule saying that you're not allowed to grab attack unless the you do it on accident and don't grab more than once in a row?
There's no way tourneys are going to write up rule lists like this for each character who can get chain grabbed or combo'd infinitely. It's just silly.

 

[Cort]

Uh, where did I say every character can do this?

If you like getting chain grabbed across the stage easily and then into a quick smash/tilt, go ahead and play Lucas. I couldn't care less really >_<

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Saying that you can't do this isn't exactly enforceable. If you want to continue to play Lucas or Ness you'll have to avoid getting grabbed by most of the cast. It's like playing against Dedede or Ice Climbers.

 

[menofuntall]

It still makes it a ****ton harder to play them, and easily can guarantee low or middle tier.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

When I saw the title I thought this would be somone saying "i want them to be low tier so no one uses them except for me tehehe."

I knew this happened to Ness but not Lucas. That stinks.

 

[Shibby]

Ugh ...

Time to go pick up a Xbox and GTA4

 

[steviep]

ugh....i guess ill need to start learning a new char.....why did it have to be ness AND lucas

 

[Emblem Lord]

No.

This thing allows good Lucas' and Ness' to lose to players far worse then them. You just grab them and they are done.

It's easiest to do wtih Marth, but also possible with other characters.

If this isn't banned and I don't think it will be then Lucas and Ness are auto bottom tier.

No, not even bottom.

They are unplayable.

 

[apguy13]

Don't be deterred by this thread if your main is Lucas. I believe that despite the mechanics of the game - any character can compete and win effectively. Maybe some better than others *cough MK's cheap moves cough*, but if you just learn to outsmart them you can win. Lucas has a lot of strong attacks and can wreck opponents.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I would say they need to be deterred since if Lucas gets grabbed even ONCE he will take upwards of around 50% or 60% in damage or he will just die.

This means a Lucas player can never EVER make an error in a match.

And to err is human, so yeah.

You get the idea.

 

[Levitas]

Emblem lord, for Ness it's an auto 60%. For lucas, it's an auto 20-25 depending on how decayed your smashes are at the moment.

 

[Shibby]

Emblem lord, for Ness it's an auto 60%. For lucas, it's an auto 20-25 depending on how decayed your smashes are at the moment.

Levitas, I've looked up to you since I joined these forums. What do you suggest I (we) do? Find new main characters? Or just ride this out and hope for a fix or new rule ...?

*sad face*

 

[Emblem Lord]

Wow, Sucks for Ness mains.

Lucas is slightly better off, but if his percent is high enough he will die anyway, since his opponent gets a free smash.

Either way this isn't good at all for either of the Mother boys.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Lucas: This is your fault! You had to get Sakurai angry by saying Kirby sucks.

Ness: My fault? Who was the one who pestered Sakurai to be in this game.

Lucas: Idiot! Now we're both screwed over... Im going home.

Ness: ... Me too.

 

[Levitas]

Honestly, I haven't had any intention of using lucas as a main in any tournaments for a while. However, he should be useful as a counterpick against certain characters still. And if the amount of lucas players dwindles, it just means that there will be fewer people who remember/know what to exploit in the matchup.

It's not hopeless, but if you want to make money off of smash, do everything you can in the best interests of winning. Picking up snake, metaknight, or both would be a good start.

PS, I'll always still play as him often, though. Friendlies and MMs are probably the closest he'll get to competitive play for a while, though.

 

[Smashbros_7]

But your levitas! The Lucas pro! Don't give up now!

it wasn't my post right?

 

[HOHO420]

This doesnt really matter, if your a good ness/lucas player, you'll find a solution.

 

[hoopspr226]

Hoho:

Actually it completely does matter.

Even if you find a solution, the most that will do is decrease the amount the chaingrab hinders you. However, it will still hinder you, and Lucas players will never be as good as they could have been without this ******** programming.

 

[Wilhelmina Carmel]

Oh, darn, my friend just picked up Ness. I don't think he or I would ever play competitively(at least not this year) but still it's a bit discouraging with the chance you'll meet CGers on wi-fi. I won't change my main, though, no one else feels the same. :C

 

[memphischains]

Why would Nintendo ever be innovative enough to patch the game?

Look at why-try err lagfi err wifi

i laughed.

 

[MusicalMike]

That sucks.

 

[Steb]

It saddens me to read this. At least he can still be playable in doubles. Guess I'm gonna join NESSBOUNDER and switch my main to my secondary, Lucario. I wonder if this chain grab works on other characters.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Are you guys even paying attention? It's escapable? No Johnsons if you get caught in an escapable technique?

And Lucas can do this to several characters as well, the key point being that once again it is escapable.

 

[hoopspr226]

Can Lucas really do this to many characters?
Is it the same as Marth's chaingrab across the stage on Lucas? What characters does it work against?

As a side note, it really frustrates/annoys me that they took this long to come out with Brawl, and put in such efforts to remove competitive elements, yet they still forgot really crucial, gamebreaking stuff like this. If anything, Brawl is MORE glitchy than melee, and its glitches are far worse.

 

[salaboB]

As a side note, it really frustrates/annoys me that they took this long to come out with Brawl, and put in such efforts to remove competitive elements, yet they still forgot really crucial, gamebreaking stuff like this. If anything, Brawl is MORE glitchy than melee, and its glitches are far worse.

This is especially bad because it's hard to do -- the really good players will crush the casual ones, no matter how much "effort" the casual players put in. Inescapably.

Preventing infinites should have been Sakurai's first priority.

 

[screeddie]

F*ck it, I'll use Lucas anyway. I usually counterpick Snake if I lose anyway so... I win always. >D

 

[Powda]

Chain grab has always existed. We've all seen marth eat foxes over and over with chain grabs. I just nuetral a to jab out of every chain grab...including wario, ddd and marth....

I thought this was about grabbing and jabbing until they came out of the grab...not chain grabbing acrossed the stage. I've been doing a few small tests and every time I am able to jab before they can grab me again. Either way we all knew lucas wasn't high tier so won't matter anyways.


No one will ever be happy with brawl. First people complain because they don't have as many ATs yet and they can't combo like crazy as they did in melee.....then we all complain because they discovery combos we have to deal with. I wish ppl would just say what they are really thinking, they miss melee because it took them soo long to learn the AT and now we are all on close to equal ground again until smashboards can find some crazy AT our friends and tournies don't know how to do again.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Haha, one of my friends mains Lucas. Sucks for him.

 

[Raisinbran10488]

All ive got to say is that if your opponent has dedicated enough time to observe your individual DI tendencies, and know the precise timing to continue this "chain-grab" then they deserve the win.

As far as the grab into smash attack, thats a different story, and although a powerful combo, isnt unique to just VS lucas.

 

[Morrigan]

Wow, and I thought my main was one of the worst characters.

 

[Shibby]

Whatever I guess...


Just another challenge to over come

Lucas till the end baby ... even if it is 0 - death!

 

[Levitas]

Powda, Techno, this is sort of an escapable technique. It may be a while from now, but to my knowledge, the best way to minimize damage/risk of damage is to DI away from the grab break and jab combo to prevent a regrab, but the problem is that this sets up nicely for their smash. So grab = 20-30 damage instantly.

Techno, you mentioned that lucas can do this to other characters, which is wrong. Ness and lucas have more lag that other characters upon breaking a grab. This allows the marth to regrab just like DK could on other characters in 64. Lucas can try it, but the opponent will have time to take an action before he can, and therefore it doesn't work for him.

Powda, this is the grab, attack, regrab thing. No throws involved.

Everyone that said that it doesn't matter/whatever, you're wrong.

Edit: Shibby, you're being a bit melodramatic. This isn't even close to a zero-death.

 

[zamz]

Basically, I think people want to eliminate as many characters from the tier discussion as possible...which is fair. But I'm still not convinced this is a big enough discovery to rule Lucas as a completely useless character. Perhaps hindered, but there are worse things to fear.

As said above, a good lucas can still compete. He just has one new obstacle is his way. Who would have thought, a character can get hurt? 20-30% damage is hardly different than a lot of attacks. Slightly more damage than normal, sure, but it's not the end of the world.

I'd love to see someone beat a Pro Lucas using grabs alone. It won't work. This little trick still requires that the person using the grab can outplay the Lucas...and if he can, grab or no grab, the Lucas would lose anyway.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Basically, I think people want to eliminate as many characters from the tier discussion as possible...which is fair. But I'm still not convinced this is a big enough discovery to rule Lucas as a completely useless character. Perhaps hindered, but there are worse things to fear.

As said above, a good lucas can still compete. He just has one new obstacle is his way. Who would have thought, a character can get hurt? 20-30% damage is hardly different than a lot of attacks. Slightly more damage than normal, sure, but it's not the end of the world.

I'd love to see someone beat a Pro Lucas using grabs alone. It won't work. This little trick still requires that the person using the grab can outplay the Lucas...and if he can, grab or no grab, the Lucas would lose anyway.

It's an infinite for all characters except tether grab characters. For the tether grab characters, it's the 20-30% (from grabbing and throwing)

It would require the Lucas player to either be extremely good, or be playing against a tether grab character (many of which beat Lucas without this anyway).

 

[Evan BlazE]

Hi,

I'm not an expert but can't you counter the grabber instead of trying to escape ?

 

[Levitas]

No, you're in stun until they regrab, assuming that it works with dash-grabs.

It's not nearly as horrible to lucas as it is to Ness, though.

 

[prOAPC]

with lucas, i DI the opposive direction and then do a jab combo, it works to stop the regrab, but, they can hit you with a smash