Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Somebody brought this up in I think the Krystal thread but would the inklings work on 3DS? There's the whole transforming thing for one but then there's the ink part which kinda needs to be included as it's a key part of their game and character, swimming through ink. I guess it'd be something that stays on the ground for a limited time and you can swim through it as a movement option but I'm not sure it'd work and would they need to change stages in order for it to work with the ink?

Another thing I've been thinking though, how do we know it's just one character? I mean I don't think anybody said otherwise and it makes sense, Lucas, Ryu and Roy were all released together.

 

[A Distant Demon]

You know I think Sakurai might decide to look at the ballot and pick out characters to hold for Smash 5. King K, Inkling, Isaac, Dee could all be examples of this. I think characters that are easy like Wolf, Pichu, Snake or characters that would be "less-hype" like Dixie, SK, Wonder Red, Chibi Robo that are requested just not as much as our "big 3" would get the call.

I don't know how likely that is, just that it might be a possibility.

Also, on the 23rd it'll be a whole year since Mewtwo was announced. It really doesn't feel that long ago.

This would be. . .a strange choice. DLC is meant to sell as a standalone product. So characters like K rool/inklings would be great choices. "Less hype" characters would just lead to lower sales. In fact those less hype characters are actually pretty much made to be in a base roster because they all increase each others value.

EX Wii Fit Trainer would have likely sold horribly solo compared to say Lucas.

 

[RosaPeach]

I want Sora in smash so I could use my Keyblade on Ganondorf Little Mac and Ryu.

 

[ErenJager]

What if Sakurai is saving the most popular/ requested villains for smash 5?

Ridley
King K. Rool
Wolf

Plus geigue and black Shadow would be sweet.

It would be nice to see the big bads from the original 12.

 

[Burruni]

Somebody brought this up in I think the Krystal thread but would the inklings work on 3DS? There's the whole transforming thing for one but then there's the ink part which kinda needs to be included as it's a key part of their game and character, swimming through ink. I guess it'd be something that stays on the ground for a limited time and you can swim through it as a movement option but I'm not sure it'd work and would they need to change stages in order for it to work with the ink?

Another thing I've been thinking though, how do we know it's just one character? I mean I don't think anybody said otherwise and it makes sense, Lucas, Ryu and Roy were all released together.

1) "Transformation" characters refer not to characters who change shape but characters who have multiple movesets crammed into their "Active" data at one time. By having Zeik, Pokemon Trainer, or Zamus in the game, the 3DS would have to have the ram to availably access 8/12 movesets at once if all 4 players chose those characters. The extent by which most expect Inklings to transform is that their model "melds" into squid form in their crouch and crawl animation. Not much more of a stretch than going pizza cutter for certain moves or 's Stone move, theoretically. At least, it should be less of a strain to program than became due to how it has the "hammer" move which is a cover-all attack for a "moveset" after Abandon Ship.

2) The way that I say the ink/turf system would be best "compromised" is that one special move (in my idea, Side-B which is Charger type weapons) would have a projectile programmed to apply an "ink" terrain effect on the first surface found under the object.... akin to the collision detection for 's thunder, if that makes any sense. This terrain would, either for a certain amount of time or until someone crosses through it, would reduce movement speed and jump height for opponents and the inverse for an inkling using their crawl.

THEORETICALLY, if Ink was programmed as a terrain effect it'd be applicable to most/any platforms.

 

[NintenZ]

If Bandana Dee does become DeeLC, does anyone think he'd be bundled with Fountain of Dreams?

 

[Burruni]

If Bandana Dee does become DeeLC, does anyone think he'd be bundled with Fountain of Dreams?

No.
While the two may happen simultaneously there's no reason for a newcomer to be bundled with an old stage.

 

[Wiley]

The 3DS version really should have been the lesser version (already is) and shouldn't dampen the possibilities for console greatness. Equality has never been so obnoxious.

 

[Burruni]

The 3DS version really should have been the lesser version (already is) and shouldn't dampen the possibilities for console greatness. Equality has never been so obnoxious.

Except the 3DS version sold better.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

1) "Transformation" characters refer not to characters who change shape but characters who have multiple movesets crammed into their "Active" data at one time. By having Zeik, Pokemon Trainer, or Zamus in the game, the 3DS would have to have the ram to availably access 8/12 movesets at once if all 4 players chose those characters. The extent by which most expect Inklings to transform is that their model "melds" into squid form in their crouch and crawl animation. Not much more of a stretch than going pizza cutter for certain moves or 's Stone move, theoretically. At least, it should be less of a strain to program than became due to how it has the "hammer" move which is a cover-all attack for a "moveset" after Abandon Ship.

2) The way that I say the ink/turf system would be best "compromised" is that one special move (in my idea, Side-B which is Charger type weapons) would have a projectile programmed to apply an "ink" terrain effect on the first surface found under the object.... akin to the collision detection for 's thunder, if that makes any sense. This terrain would, either for a certain amount of time or until someone crosses through it, would reduce movement speed and jump height for opponents and the inverse for an inkling using their crawl.

THEORETICALLY, if Ink was programmed as a terrain effect it'd be applicable to most/any platforms.

I don't think it'd make sense for only one move to spread ink, unless that was the only move where they shoot ink which would be very weird. I'm not convinced it'd work on 3DS though, having a stage covered in ink could cause slowdown, especially online.

 

[Burruni]

I don't think it'd make sense for only one move to spread ink, unless that was the only move where they shoot ink which would be very weird. I'm not convinced it'd work on 3DS though, having a stage covered in ink could cause slowdown, especially online.

It doesn't make sense that can be defeated by anything other than the Master Sword and Light Arrows, that Aether doesn't heal, and that can't freely fly, but game balance trumps the "integrity" of characters at times. I feel like commiting it to one special would be the way it'd end up being balanced.

And slowdown is a concern but one that we really have no way of knowing one way or another because we aren't programming it... and to be fair just about anything causes slowdown online. It's the base offline gameplay that was Sakurai's focus.

 

[Lady Kuki]

This would be. . .a strange choice. DLC is meant to sell as a standalone product. So characters like K rool/inklings would be great choices. "Less hype" characters would just lead to lower sales. In fact those less hype characters are actually pretty much made to be in a base roster because they all increase each others value.

EX Wii Fit Trainer would have likely sold horribly solo compared to say Lucas.

Well this could just be my bias for underdog characters showing, but wouldn't people buy DLC characters regardless of who it is? I don't know about you, or any other SSB fan, but I'd buy any character regardless of how hype they are. I like to try out different characters for their move sets and stuff. I think that at least the competitive community would buy those characters, since they're usually the types of who try out all sorts of characters, correct me if I'm wrong.
Then again, the competitive community only takes up a small percentage of Smash players so..

I think that if they want to advertise a curveball character, they should put him/her in a bundle with more popular characters. That could work, I think.

 

[Talpr1]

Remember that DLC costs money, and most people aren't willing to spend money for a character that doesn't interest them. Obviously this would apply with any character they're going to add, but more popular characters help maximizing the income.

 

[Roberto zampari]

I just wonder when will be the next nintendo direct.
It's because of the Smash Bros' new DLC character.

 

[Sid-cada]

It doesn't make sense that can be defeated by anything other than the Master Sword and Light Arrows, that Aether doesn't heal, and that can't freely fly, but game balance trumps the "integrity" of characters at times. I feel like commiting it to one special would be the way it'd end up being balanced.

I think at that point, you're not just ignoring cannon, you're also kinda ignoring pure logic at that point. I mean, "Ink causes the ground to get inky," is probably something so plain obvious, a 1-year old can make the connection.

Typically, the majority of moves still make a degree of sense even if you aren't familiar with the source material.

"Stones are hard to damage."
"An electrified sword hurts more than a regular sword."
"Flowing water pushes you away."

These statements might as well have a "duh," attached to the end of them. The only counter-example I can really give would be how everybody survives being eaten by Kirby.


Because almost every attack the Inklings have revolves around ink, them spreading ink might as well be one of those "Of course they would do that!" moments. Unless you really stretch what they could do, it would be hard to not do so while making most people not scratch their heads over "Why isn't this move spreading ink?"

 

[Burruni]

I think at that point, you're not just ignoring cannon, you're also kinda ignoring pure logic at that point. I mean, "Ink causes the ground to get inky," is probably something so plain obvious, a 1-year old can make the connection.

Typically, the majority of moves still make a degree of sense even if you aren't familiar with the source material.

"Stones are hard to damage."
"An electrified sword hurts more than a regular sword."
"Flowing water pushes you away."

These statements might as well have a "duh," attached to the end of them. The only counter-example I can really give would be how everybody survives being eaten by Kirby.


Because almost every attack the Inklings have revolves around ink, them spreading ink might as well be one of those "Of course they would do that!" moments. Unless you really stretch what they could do, it would be hard to not do so while making most people not scratch their heads over "Why isn't this move spreading ink?"

My point was that it'd be an end to justify means.

Not every move spreading ink is on par of flame breaths not scorching the ground. We'll see what happens if they get in this time around and if not almost for certain by Smash 5, but I believe that'd be a way they'd balance things out. The alternative is having their offensive specials spread ink, but the effects being incredibly minimal to reduce the toxicity of the system/gimmick.

Edit: A Distant Demon , I finally gave in. Are you happy?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Well this could just be my bias for underdog characters showing, but wouldn't people buy DLC characters regardless of who it is? I don't know about you, or any other SSB fan, but I'd buy any character regardless of how hype they are. I like to try out different characters for their move sets and stuff. I think that at least the competitive community would buy those characters, since they're usually the types of who try out all sorts of characters, correct me if I'm wrong.
Then again, the competitive community only takes up a small percentage of Smash players so..

I think that if they want to advertise a curveball character, they should put him/her in a bundle with more popular characters. That could work, I think.

Look it at this way. A new 2d/prime syle metroid game would probably sell decently well.

But imagine if the choice is between that metroid game and a mario game. Assuming the work load and cost is identical which is the more profitable choice?

In this case wonder red is metroid and k rool is mario. Both would sell well. But one would sell so much better than the other.

Random obscure characters half the world has never heard of is W102 (rip)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Again, as I've said before, I really don't feel like the resulting DLC characters are going to be choices nobody saw coming. I mean they COULD be, but it makes a whole lot more sense to add characters that are popular/people know and wanted in Smash.

I'm going to be honest and say that I simply want to know who's getting in, because speculation is running in circles at this point. "ADD THIS CHARACTER BECAUSE I WANT IT, NOT THE ONE EVERYONE WANTS" etc... People will bypass logic just to convince themselves that something is going to happen. Oy.

If your character is Top 10, MAYBE Top 15, you're probably ok. The Ballot isn't a "#1 choice auto-wins" but it's still a Ballot. The top choices will stand out no matter what.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Look it at this way. A new 2d/prime syle metroid game would probably sell pretty damn well.

But imagine if the choice is between that metroid game and a mario game. Assuming the work load and cost is identical which is the more profitable choice?

In this case wonder red is metroid and k rool is mario. Both would sell well. But one would sell so much better than the other.

Random obscure characters half the world has never heard of is W102 (rip)

A little rewording and this is the whole NLG Metroid---Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon thing as a parallel.

Nice.

 

[Burruni]

A little rewording and this is the whole NLG Metroid---Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon thing as a parallel.

Nice.

Dear NLG
Give me a 2D metroid with.. y'know, probably still 3D models... so 2.5D. I need a Metroidvania-styled actual metroid game.
Best wishes
Burruni

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dear NLG
Give me a 2D metroid with.. y'know, probably still 3D models... so 2.5D. I need a Metroidvania-styled actual metroid game.
Best wishes
Burruni

I hope Nintendo gets them working on that concept they had before they worked on Weegee's Basement 2

 

[Pazzo.]

Considering Konami has lost its mind, a 2D Metroid game may be exactly what we need.

I'd love to see Ridley also redesigned, of only to see him in Smash 5.

 

[MYU2]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3oh2d0/spoilers_sean_leaks_new_character_accidentally/

Well

 

[LIQUID12A]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3oh2d0/spoilers_sean_leaks_new_character_accidentally/

Well

Oh damn.

We getting Gravity Falls characters in Smash now?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3oh2d0/spoilers_sean_leaks_new_character_accidentally/

Well

How about we don't leak. Wasn't leak discussion in non-leak threads banned back when Smash 4 was unreleased? I want that rule back

 

[Children0fTheStars]

There's a common fallacy I'm seeing throughout all of this: Argumentum ad populum.

"It is commonly believed to be so, therefore it must be so."

The bottom line is that no one in the fanbase is going to know the actual numbers of the ballot. (And it would probably be best if Nintendo never makes the results in terms of vote numbers* public once they're done with ballot DLC.) Frankly, I think people are making a serious mistake in assuming that the ballot leaders are ahead by such a large margin. I prefer not to use this term as most people these days just say "Vocal minority/Silent majority" as a way to prop up their argument for when it's convenient to them, but everyone here is leaving out the silent majority; all ballot contributors that can't be found in any of the mainstream Smash Bros. communities and probably not on social media. The Wii U version of Smash alone has over three million owners (according to a list of best-selling video games); no matter how many fan polls are conducted to try to get a sense of the most popular suggestions, the truth is no fan-made results will come remotely close to reflecting the true fanbase as a whole. We're only getting a rough view of what vocal fans online want.

The biggest online community might be the Smash Bros. subreddit, and even that doesn't really come close to reflecting the true majority; also, to say nothing of how Reddit is known as Circlejerking: The Website for a reason.

This also extends to possible sales potential of future DLCs. I've been watching people claim X would be more of a money-maker compared to, say, an allegedly "obscure" suggestion when there have been cases where the "obscure" choice has had a game/games that have been top-sellers for Nintendo at times. Meanwhile, X reflects a character or series that might be past its prime, but what matters more to people is that the character is seemingly popular in terms of the online communities. Therefore, they assume X will make Nintendo more money based off of the above fallacy, Argumentum ad populum.

All I'm trying to do is point out that the whole DLC situation can, by no means, be as cut-and-dry as a lot of people are making it out to be. There are too many factors not being considered, as well as misinformation and fallacious reasoning.

* - I'm aware that the ballot page says "votes" may be made public, but that more likely refers to the box where you explain your reasoning for the character. It can't be talking about raw numbers.

 

[The Light Music Club]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3oh2d0/spoilers_sean_leaks_new_character_accidentally/

Well

Honestly he probably didn't mean it like that and didn't want people to get the wrong idea.

 

[FalKoopa]

How about we don't leak. Wasn't leak discussion in non-leak threads banned back when Smash 4 was unreleased? I want that rule back

Bringing back that rule would make 90% of the posts here illegal.

 

[GaroMaster]

Has anyone seen this yet?
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/10/12/amazon-lists-super-smash-bros-digital-complete-pack/

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bringing back that rule would make 90% of the posts here illegal.

Quality over quantity

Has anyone seen this yet?
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/10/12/amazon-lists-super-smash-bros-digital-complete-pack/

WOOOOO A FEW BUCKS DISCOUNT AND ONLY THE FIRST 3 WAVES HYYYYPE

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

There's a common fallacy I'm seeing throughout all of this: Argumentum ad populum.

"It is commonly believed to be so, therefore it must be so."

The bottom line is that no one in the fanbase is going to know the actual numbers of the ballot. (And it would probably be best if Nintendo never makes the results in terms of vote numbers* public once they're done with ballot DLC.) Frankly, I think people are making a serious mistake in assuming that the ballot leaders are ahead by such a large margin. I prefer not to use this term as most people these days just say "Vocal minority/Silent majority" as a way to prop up their argument for when it's convenient to them, but everyone here is leaving out the silent majority; all ballot contributors that can't be found in any of the mainstream Smash Bros. communities and probably not on social media. The Wii U version of Smash alone has over three million owners (according to a list of best-selling video games); no matter how many fan polls are conducted to try to get a sense of the most popular suggestions, the truth is no fan-made results will come remotely close to reflecting the true fanbase as a whole. We're only getting a rough view of what vocal fans online want.

The biggest online community might be the Smash Bros. subreddit, and even that doesn't really come close to reflecting the true majority; also, to say nothing of how Reddit is known as Circlejerking: The Website for a reason.

This also extends to possible sales potential of future DLCs. I've been watching people claim X would be more of a money-maker compared to, say, an allegedly "obscure" suggestion when there have been cases where the "obscure" choice has had a game/games that have been top-sellers for Nintendo at times. Meanwhile, X reflects a character or series that might be past its prime, but what matters more to people is that the character is seemingly popular in terms of the online communities. Therefore, they assume X will make Nintendo more money based off of the above fallacy, Argumentum ad populum.

All I'm trying to do is point out that the whole DLC situation can, by no means, be as cut-and-dry as a lot of people are making it out to be. There are too many factors not being considered, as well as misinformation and fallacious reasoning.

* - I'm aware that the ballot page says "votes" may be made public, but that more likely refers to the box where you explain your reasoning for the character. It can't be talking about raw numbers.

Speculation speculation speculation speculation speculation.

It doesn't matter how unqualified someone is to speak on something, the whole point of speculation is to offer an opinion on what could happen based on what we can observe.

If everyone knew everything of what was going to happen, there would be no point to this thread because there would be no point in speculating.

We get it, there are variables we can't possibly see. So what? Is every character now 100% going to be in this game because there is literally nothing negative we could say about a character based off your logic? Are we suppose to just sit around and twiddle our thumbs until the next character just shows up because why bother?

Of course there can always be an outcome we never considered and it could completely blindside us. Ok. Thats life. As humans we deal with that sort of thing all the time.

 

[FalKoopa]

Quality over quantity

If talking about Jumpman for the umpteenth time and fighting over Ridley counts as 'quality', I suppose.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If talking about Jumpman for the umpteenth time and fighting over Ridley counts as 'quality', I suppose.

You don't get it. This time we look at the possibility of Jumpman and Ridley with party hats as DLC

 

[Schnee117]

You don't get it. This time we look at the possibility of Jumpman and Ridley with party hats as DLC

Are you GabeN?
Will there be BONUS DUCKS too?

 

[Burruni]

Are you GabeN?
Will there be BONUS DUCKS too?

Scrooge McDuck for Smash
Does everything Shovel Knight does and is rich

 

[Schnee117]

Scrooge McDuck for Smash
Does everything Shovel Knight does and is rich

Merasmus also replaces Xander Mobus as the Announcer and with every KO you get ducks which serve no purpose at all.

 

[FalKoopa]

Scrooge McDuck for Smash
Does everything Shovel Knight does and is rich

If we can get the Duck Tales theme song with him then yes.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I kinda don't want it to be Inklings cause they'd have a lot of potential for custom moves

 

[Autumn ♫]

Again, as I've said before, I really don't feel like the resulting DLC characters are going to be choices nobody saw coming. I mean they COULD be, but it makes a whole lot more sense to add characters that are popular/people know and wanted in Smash.

I'm going to be honest and say that I simply want to know who's getting in, because speculation is running in circles at this point. "ADD THIS CHARACTER BECAUSE I WANT IT, NOT THE ONE EVERYONE WANTS" etc... People will bypass logic just to convince themselves that something is going to happen. Oy.

If your character is Top 10, MAYBE Top 15, you're probably ok. The Ballot isn't a "#1 choice auto-wins" but it's still a Ballot. The top choices will stand out no matter what.

So Goku and Shrek are probably okay. Good, I was worried I wouldn't see them playable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I kinda don't want it to be Inklings cause they'd have a lot of potential for custom moves

Smash 5 would give the DLC characters customs if they return