Character Competitive Impressions

[Terotrous]

I would actually report the exact same top 5 with customs off except probably reversing the positions of Sheik and Rosalina. In the long run I might even expect Rosalina to fall below Yoshi with customs off because seriously Diddy is just stupid with customs off, but I am not sure about that.

Yes, if we're putting Yoshi that high, I see no way Yoshi isn't above Rosa too. After all, he performs better against Diddy, and he does better vs Rosa with customs off than he does with Customs on.

Rosalina gains and loses from customs. She gains a lot because the Diddy match-up becomes a lot less stupid. She loses a lot because a lot of otherwise easy match-ups become real match-ups. Overall she's probably a bit more viable with customs on since losing to Diddy is probably pretty horrible in customs off, but in customs on people are going to very routinely use not top 10 characters who get great anti-Rosalina tools in customs on

This is the part I most want to see play out. While many characters do get anti Luma tools, Luma also becomes WAY better thanks to Luma Warp and Speedy Star Bit, and in some cases I think Rosa is gaining more than the other characters are. In particular, a really understated benefit to Luma Warp is that it helps Rosa protect Luma better, by allowing her to drop him where she wants him and quickly recall him with very little downtime.

Ness whose customs are no better than Yoshi's

I disagree with this. The transcendent PK Thunder is definitely a game-changer in some matchups. It likely makes his matchup with Yoshi even, as Yoshi can no longer just clank his PK Thunder and thus recovering high (which is really Yoshi's only way to recover) is now a lot less safe.

I just don't see Yoshi's place to drop here; his core strengths are very good, his customs aren't as bad as the Yoshi mains are letting on (they aren't earth-shattering, but he has several useful options)

Eh, I remain sceptical that any of them have any real use. Maybe someone will figure out something cool with them but right now I see only one matchup (Villager) where I wouldn't use 1111.

"man, Yoshi can dominate that match-up without customs, but that custom just ruins Yoshi's day"

There are a lot of customs that give characters whom Yoshi can generally outpace in damage higher reward on hit, shifting those matchups either more towards even or slightly to their favour. Also, Sheik getting better is never good news.

the higher end of the tier list doesn't change so much with customs on other than everyone who is not Diddy growing closer to Diddy (I actually think most people in this topic underrate Diddy, if such a thing is possible, character has way more potential than fishing for grabs)

I agree, Diddy is bananas a lot more than just bananas. And I do think Customs on moves the cast closer to him (though 1111 Diddy is still probably the best character in the game), however it's clear that it will impact the relative placements of the other characters to some degree.

 

[hey_there]

Since we mentioned Luigi, do any of his customs make it easier for him to approach? Because otherwise the Greninja MU is probably even worse for Luigi in a customs environment because Shifting Shuriken stops cyclone on it's tracks and leaves Luigi ready to be juggled by Greninja and it also outranges and ignores fireballs, so Greninja can really zone Luigi out I think.

Iceballs cover Luigi's approach and stuff enemy approaches. Shifting Shuriken is easy to avoid in neutral in my experience. And if you don't mind, can you explain why Greninja is a bad match up for Luigi? I've seen that posted a few times but I can't see why it's considered so advantageous to Greninja. He doesn't even have protean.

It also appears that burial header is useless to Luigi mains, since all of his sets have the default Super Jump Punch.

1231 is currently a set, which includes Burial Header. I think Burial Header is a decent move, but having a near instant kill at your disposal is hard to pass up. As the custom meta develops I expect there will be certain match ups in which Burial Header will prove to be more useful on the whole than SJP.

 

[FullMoon]

Iceballs cover Luigi's approach and stuff enemy approaches. Shifting Shuriken is easy to avoid in neutral in my experience. And if you don't mind, can you explain why Greninja is a bad match up for Luigi? I've seen that posted a few times but I can't see why it's considered so advantageous to Greninja. He doesn't even have protean.

Here

Nobody questioned it so I assume what I said there is accurate enough.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Reporting from my own experiences, but so far I have yet to have the experience of the mid-tier / low-tier characters "catching up" to Rosa with customs turned on. My win rate with Rosa seems to be much higher overall against pretty much every character with customs turned on, with obvious exceptions such as the characters that rise like 3 tiers with their custom moves (like Palutena).

There are people who I can't beat with customs turned off, who I play evenly with customs turned on. And there are people who I play evenly with customs turned off, who can't beat me with customs turned on.

Recently I've played games against Smashers such as Dabuz, Nairo, NinjaLink, and DKwill. And I got KOs from Luma Warp in every single match up, in scenarios that I wouldn't have even been able to punish them in before (default Luma Shot is borderline useless).

Customs Rosa is on another level from default Rosa.

 

[Emblem Lord]

IHMO, Marth is too low (with or without customs), heavy blade's last hit has huge (like, Ike's fsmash attack huge) knock back, Dashing Assault->Dolphin jump makes for a great recovery and has a counter with good options.... (not sure how customs fit into the metagame but there's a variety of them so one of them must be good/decent. right?). sh -> fair/nair is a great spacer, fmash tipper can kill at like 70% with most characters, his up throw is very strong and he can juggle characters easily with u-air.

Bleh on this entire post

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Recently I've played games against Smashers such as Dabuz, Nairo, NinjaLink, and DKwill. And I got KOs from Luma Warp in every single match up, in scenarios that I wouldn't have even been able to punish them in before (default Luma Shot is borderline useless).

I sometimes get kills online from using Luma Shot as a landing trap, although I agree Luma Warp is all around much more versatile and worth using. And it's probably not that hard to respect Luma Shot and prevent it from doing much of anything.

 

[wedl!!]

Playing pacman to me feels like creating art with all the planning and being creative to me. I think he does very well with someone who is creative at every point of the game.

that's sort of peach and greninja. difference is that i can't play pac to save my life. :/

 

[Unknownkid]

Even in a customs on environment Swordfighter is getting this bad wrap.

2-1-3-X is the kit to use. Unless someone has an argument for Slash Launcher.

-While it has less killing power than AA, you have less of a chance in killing yourself on stage.
-The charge is indefinite - so if I missed my hard read, I can reset myself.
-Ability to switch direction at the beginning of the charge (to either escape or attack)
-Not completely hopeless when you hit someone shield.

I guess it comes down to preference. If you use Side B only for recovery or hard read/reading rolls, you should use Airborne Assault. If you want more stage shenanigans, you can use Slash Launcher. Of course if you have Power Thrust, you should ditch Slash Launcher all together for AA.

I always treated Swordfighters as "customs on" even in customs off. They're still pretty meh. Promising, but meh right now. but yeah 213X min weight is the truth, we're still trying to figure out the best height is somewhere between min height and 1/2 height)

Interesting... you are really a change man. Before you were fighting for Chakram and completely ripped on Airborne Assault. Now, look where we are, Haha.

If you ever think of using Chakram, make use you have Hero's Spin. Your recovery is pretty terrible without it.

I wonder if Swordfighter is really stage-dependent. He has his best chance of KOing on stages where he can shark with up-airs, but in other situations...

I tried Swordfighter for a bit on ladder, and every time I threw out a forward smash I think I died a little inside. Obviously that's my own inexperience to an extent, but it feels like the most terrible f-smash there is.

Hmm... I think he is stage-dependent but it could be based on your build. If you like to kill with Uair, then platforms and stage with Low Ceiling will be your best bet. If you have Power Thrust, good with landing Dair (on the stage), Bair, Fair, or Ftilt, you want smaller Walls.

Yes, Swordfighter's Fsmash has a long endlag but has good coverage. Dsmash requires an even harder read. Pray to God you don't get punish hard if you whiff that. This is why I switch my C Stick to Attack. Ftilt is Fsmash Jr. It kills later but it's safer.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

His Dsmash is frame 7 for the front hit. Sure the back hit does more damage but if you're going for the front the thing comes out as fast as your jab.

 

[Antonykun]

Interesting... you are really a change man. Before you were fighting for Chakram and completely ripped on Airborne Assault. Now, look where we are, Haha.

I never did edit those posts ._.

That's what I get for not knowing that Chakram has so much endlag (It's still goodish) and Swordfighter goes so far from an AA recovery, I'm still not too fond of Slash Laucher

 

[NairWizard]

I find this interesting, as these aren't really the characters you'd expect. MK doesn't seem like a huge surprise, but I'm a bit curious to hear why the other 3 are up there.

A lot of people were also saying they thought Yoshi vs Pika was +1 for Pika earlier. I haven't really fought it enough to have any useful comments.

is difficult because he has everything that Pikachu hates in one small package:

• Low-to-the-ground profile so that you can't SH f-air him without commitment
  
• Pressure/string escape tool in dimensional cape and multiple jumps, so you can't juggle him
• Sword disjoint, so trades go poorly sometimes
• Excellent, nigh-ungimpable recovery
• KO power/setups

There is really no harder matchup for Pikachu in the game, when you look at things this way.

It's probably 55:45 Meta Knight. Maybe 60:40, but I haven't really played a Meta Knight good enough to make me feel helpless yet.

Next hardest is , for these reasons:

• Profile is low like MK's despite Greninja having a bigger body
• His water attacks are disjointed like swords. f-air can keep you out when well spaced.
• Recovery can be tricky to gimp (but not impossible)
• He has the mobility in the air and on the ground to trap Pikachu into KO setups, irrespective of Quick Attack, but unlike someone like Sheik who can do the same thing, Greninja also has a terrifying dash grab (apparently frame 9) with oodles of range. It really restricts Pikachu's ground game

This is probably 55:45 Greninja.

Then, Yoshi and Mario are kind of about the same difficultywise. They both have favorable trades due to being heavier, kill Pikachu early, and have the aerial mobility to wall out Pikachu's air approaches. Pikachu enjoys a great ground game against both, though, so it's really, really close to even. But it feels hard for Pikachu whenever you play the MU.

Everyone else in the game is even or slightly in PIkachu's favor, until you turn on customs.

When customs are on some characters get a lot harder, such as Ganondorf, Charizard, Ike, and Palutena . . . and they get harder in ways that most characters don't have to worry about. Like, how many characters really lose to Ganondorf with customs on? Not too many. He gets harder for some characters to deal with and gains a few even matchups, but it's not like Pikachu where those customs are literally the tipping point and Pikachu starts losing instead of winning. Pikachu is in a precarious weight/range class. Adjust the balance of his followup options even ever so slightly and his matchups tip over.

That's why I think that he drops about 10 spots when customs are turned on.

But let's be absolutely clear on one thing, I don't think that Pikachu becomes unviable or "not good" with customs turned on. If I had to quantify it, it's more like his matchup score (arbitrary value coming) is something like 98 with customs off, with Sheik being 99, and when customs are turned on, his matchup score drops to 80, with Sheik being 85. All the scores in general drop closer together in a customs meta. It's just that instead of having a range of say 99-50 with outliers at 30, you have a range of 85-60 with outliers at 50.

Not too shabby on balance.

 

[Djent]

@ NairWizard I'm wondering what your current opinion on vs. is, especially after I noticed his absence from your "characters Pika doesn't ROFLstomp" list. He seems like he could still be bad for the Rat (at least as bad as Ninja-Frog, anyway).

 

[Unknownkid]

His Dsmash is frame 7 for the front hit. Sure the back hit does more damage but if you're going for the front the thing comes out as fast as your jab.

Yeah, I know. That's why I said if you whiff it, you are screwed. It has the longest endlag out all our smashes. Try it yourself. Do a dsmash and shield. Now, do Fsmash and shield.

I guess I see your point. With a fast down smash, you shouldn't have to worry about the missing it.

I never did edit those posts ._.

That's what I get for not knowing that Chakram has so much endlag (It's still goodish) and Swordfighter goes so far from an AA recovery, I'm still not too fond of Slash Laucher

I don't blame you. At the beginning, we all had misconception about our characters. That's what make games so unique. The change in meta from the beginning to the end. Slash Launcher is my preference. Airborne Assault is still ideal for recovery.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That clenches my set-up then

Shuriken of Light
Airborne Assault
Hero Spin
Power Thrust

 

[Antonykun]

That clenches my set-up then

Shuriken of Light
Airborne Assault
Hero Spin
Power Thrust

Now the next problem: size

 

[Saturn_]

You know, I need to pick a secondary, and I'm wondering if I'm not just overthinking this and should just 2nd Ganondorf to go with my C.Falcon main.

Does Ganondorf have a noticeably different MU spread than Falcon? Would this be a good or a bad idea?

 

[Luco]

@ NairWizard Now that Ness' customs metagame is being figured out and exploited, I'm curious as to whether you believe things like lasting PK Thunder or PK Fire burst will change that MU at all (Ness v Pika)? ^_^

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Does Ganondorf have a noticeably different MU spread than Falcon? Would this be a good or a bad idea?

Yes there mu's are very different. But if your maining falcon i would highly recomend finding another character to second cuz while g dorf does have better mu's against falcons lesser mu's i think you would want somthing that directly covers falcon.

 

[Yikarur]

Why do I keep reading "Mii Brawler doesn't exist without customs"
With what kind of awkward rules are you playing?
Any decent ruleset should allow any Mii Brawler Moveset with customs off.

 

[Luco]

Why do I keep reading "Mii Brawler doesn't exist without customs"
With what kind of awkward rules are you playing?
Any decent ruleset should allow any Mii Brawler Moveset with customs off.

It's an over-exaggeration based on the idea that Mii Brawler without the ability to access his 2 and 3 sets is very, very average.

EDIT: Forget it, I misread what you meant, though the hypothetical situation would still ring true.

 

[deepseadiva]

Sigh. Peach does not get exciting customs. I almost thinks she gets waaay too overshadowed with them included. Everyone gets all these crazy powers and Peach just gets... slower floaty turnips...

 

[Saturn_]

Yes there mu's are very different. But if your maining falcon i would highly recomend finding another character to second cuz while g dorf does have better mu's against falcons lesser mu's i think you would want somthing that directly covers falcon.

that's the problem, I can't seem to get a direct answer on what Falcon's MUs are and what kind of character would cover him. Not to mention, MUs are still being explored and there's so much left to learn anyways.

I've considered ZSS, Lucario, Ike, and Fox as secondaries based off what their MUs seem to be.

 

[Yonder]

I actually think that Coffee Flip is pretty easy to deal with because it has slow start-up and inexistent priority(in fact super armor from grabs does no longer exist, I don't know if the kick has trascendent priority but it can't challenge a flying ridley)
In fact, such as 's Bair and 's USmash/Bair can be imputted on reaction and can hit Diddy Kong, closing his stock pretty early, especially in an edgeguarding situation, wich is a key situation in these two match-ups(and I think it is in several match-ups against Diddy Kong).

On a side note, Ganondorf has a highly menacing edgeguarding game, and is probably one of the best edge-guarders in the game, other than having pretty above avarage juggling and comboing capabilities that @Ffamran mentioned. Just pointing this out, I think that many already knew this.

Lol, this is embarrassing, because that was an unfinished thought that was saved, I must have accidentally posted that...whoops. Ok, what I meant to say is more of the priority on it is insane, I think it beats out way too many moves. I find myself getting cancelled out from it anyways. It's a great move, but his Lanky Kong limbs are also super annoying.

 

[MezzoMe]

Lol, this is embarrassing, because that was an unfinished thought that was saved, I must have accidentally posted that...whoops. Ok, what I meant to say is more of the priority on it is insane, I think it beats out way too many moves. I find myself getting cancelled out from it anyways. It's a great move, but his Lanky Kong limbs are also super annoying.

I don't think that the attack can beat that many moves, especially considering that the third strongest Bair in the game can, let alone the fact that it's one of Ganondorf's most occasional moves when the opponent is on the same level or below, unless he is wide.

 

[NairWizard]

@ NairWizard I'm wondering what your current opinion on vs. is, especially after I noticed his absence from your "characters Pika doesn't ROFLstomp" list. He seems like he could still be bad for the Rat (at least as bad as Ninja-Frog, anyway).

Pikachu pressures Olimar in close range with d-tilt, breaks Pikmin off with n-air (not every character has an easy, safe way to break them off), and edgeguards Olimar pretty solidly. Seems close to even, to me. Yellow Pikmin are pretty annoying though, so you can't give Olimar time to farm for them. The difference between Olimar and Greninja is that Greninja closes off aerial options better, and is better in close range. Olimar is way better at midrange, it's true. I haven't really played any super good Olimars, but I guess the same could be said of Greninja. I'm not one to underrate Olimar, though; I think he's easily top 10.

@ NairWizard Now that Ness' customs metagame is being figured out and exploited, I'm curious as to whether you believe things like lasting PK Thunder or PK Fire burst will change that MU at all (Ness v Pika)? ^_^

It's about on par with Pikachu's Heavy Skull Bash upgrade.

If you aren't aware, Heavy Skull Bash is kind of like an f-smash with twice the range, that can be used aerially. Whenever Ness is offstage using PK Thunder, you can KO him with Heavy Skull Bash. It's pretty awesome, because it's the one trajectory that Pikachu couldn't cover that well before (horizontally: Pikachu's horizontal airspeed is bad).

Lasting PK Thunder is a good anti-QA tool, and PK Fire burst is hilariously harmful when it lands, so they both get tools that make them better at the MU.

With customs off the MU is pretty even, and I don't see that changing much with the addition of customs.

Some of this (Ness and Olimar) is theory, and I don't like using theory to analyze matchups, because there is no proper substitute for experience. But those are my thoughts right now.

 

[Unknownkid]

Why do I keep reading "Mii Brawler doesn't exist without customs"
With what kind of awkward rules are you playing?
Any decent ruleset should allow any Mii Brawler Moveset with customs off.

It was Apex Rule where you were forced to use the 1111 set for all the Miis. And it continue to regional tournaments and other tournaments until recently.
Default Mii Brawler (the 1111 set) is considered one of the worst characters. This is coming from Dapuffster - Teh Mii Brawler himself. He dropped Apex because they didn't allow the 2222 set. That how bad Default Mii Brawler was in his eyes.

 

[FullMoon]

I also think with customs on Greninja could become more dangerous to Pikachu as well since Shifting Shuriken doesn't get cancelled by Thunder Jolt. On the other hand it doesn't cancel it either so Pikachu can prevent a combo from the shuriken by using Thunder Jolt before being hit by it. On the other hand it does make recovering with Skull Bash a bit harder since if it collides with the shuriken then it's just going to bring him into Greninja so he can make sure Pikachu won't recover.

Granted, it's not too much of a game changer so the MU is probably going to stay the same, but it is another good tool Greninja has that Pikachu has to be mindful of, otherwise he could end up getting killed at 80% or less because of rage. I think it will be pretty rare for Greninja to get a clearshot on Pikachu with it without being stopped by Thunder Jolt though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Now the next problem: size

imo only the guest size should be legal. its the standard on every console. it will avoid arguments and needless debates.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I always wonder if customs will lead to a counterpick based game...
Like, in the far future

 

[Nabbitnator]

Sigh. Peach does not get exciting customs. I almost thinks she gets waaay too overshadowed with them included. Everyone gets all these crazy powers and Peach just gets... slower floaty turnips...

In the Skype chat we were discussing about her customs. The only 2 that stand out are her floaty turnips and flying bomber. sadly the floaty turnips are a double edge sword. Heaven forbid lucina or marth catch it. Its a free shield break for them. They could have at least made her light turnip have its old start up. She's going to have a tough match up with characters like palutena in the future. I mean once she throws peach in the air she'll never get down due to light weight and super speed.

 

[Emblem Lord]

In the Skype chat we were discussing about her customs. The only 2 that stand out are her floaty turnips and flying bomber. sadly the floaty turnips are a double edge sword. Heaven forbid lucina or marth catch it. Its a free shield break for them.

,,,,,

I think floaty turnips are hella legit and she should run that custom all day vs Marcina.

Yesh

*rubs hands together evilly

 

[Nabbitnator]

,,,,,

I think floaty turnips are hella legit and she should run that custom all day vs Marcina.

Yesh

*rubs hands together evilly

I was playing as marth yesterday and the first thing I thought is that peach's floaty turnips helps him greatly. It helps other characters too. Yes you can float behind them but the opponent can always throw an active hitbox to catch the turnip or cancel it out while hitting peach.

 

[popsofctown]

I always try to use them to make a frame trap where you grab them the same frame that they would either try to catch floaty turnip or shield floaty turnip. I don't know if it's legit or not, or who it's legit against. If any character caught the floaty turnip without your grabbing them immediately to punish the catch, then something must be wrong with the frame trap gameplan, whether or not they have item gameplay as awesome as Marcina.

 

[Yonder]

I don't think that the attack can beat that many moves, especially considering that the third strongest Bair in the game can, let alone the fact that it's one of Ganondorf's most occasional moves when the opponent is on the same level or below, unless he is wide.

Err, I was referring to Diddy's side B, my bad.

 

[CrimsonSmasher]

Even in a customs on environment Swordfighter is getting this bad wrap.

2-1-3-X is the kit to use. Unless someone has an argument for Slash Launcher.

At least Slash Launcher can't end up as badly as Airborn Assault. Not only is AA predictable (it has that same cue going on as with Charizard's side-B attack), but you can easily pull off a selfdestruct, especially if you pull it off in the direction of a stage's edge.
I am more a proponent of 1-Y-3-X, with Y being either 2 or 3. (Neutral B-1 has more reach + it's useful in reflecting/canceling certain projectiles while B-2's damage output isn't worth the abysmal reach and how little it stuns the opponent).

Yeah, I use 1231. It surprises me that it's an uncommon setup among Mii Swordfighter users. Then again, it's essentially a poor man's fusion dance of Link and Ike.

 

[Shaya]

Here come's my "drop"

I honestly don't think Pika's MU spread is that great, there just seems to be too many match ups in the game which Pika goes evenish with at best / (imo) could lose that spread throughout the entire viable spectrum of the cast, and these are without customs. The only match up out of the these I have not personally seen played out by high/top level players is Luigi and G&W (*sic* SO MID LEVEL SHAYA). And then there's the many heavy characters in the game that Pika apparently doesn't like getting hit by above 50% and the "match shake down" from other characters obtaining customs.



Pikachu doesn't go even/beat Diddy (maybe 45:55) or Sheik, tournament results and player adaptions have genuinely shut down Pika by those two character's mains perspectives. I could probably budge on Mega, DK, Villager, Yoshi (+GreenMan) but not really seeing a solid avenue for Pikachu to argue winning match ups against the rest more than 55:45.

 

[Nobie]

Here come's my "drop"

I honestly don't think Pika's MU spread is that great, there just seems to be too many match ups in the game which Pika goes evenish with at best / (imo) could lose that spread throughout the entire viable spectrum of the cast, and these are without customs. The only match up out of the these I have not personally seen played out by high/top level players is Luigi and G&W (*sic* SO MID LEVEL SHAYA). And then there's the many heavy characters in the game that Pika apparently doesn't like getting hit by above 50% and the "match shake down" from other characters obtaining customs.



Pikachu doesn't go even/beat Diddy (maybe 45:55) or Sheik, tournament results and player adaptions have genuinely shut down Pika by those two character's mains perspectives. I could probably budge on Mega, DK, Villager, Yoshi (+GreenMan) but not really seeing a solid avenue for Pikachu to argue winning match ups against the rest more than 55:45.

How is the Dedede matchup for Pikachu? I recall some folks saying that Pikachu actually has to worry about heavyweights, and who more worrisome than one of the hardest to gimp heavyweight recoveries in the game? There's also the fact that a Dedede full of rage is a dangerous opponent.

 

[Shaya]

Pika getting Dedede off stage is ugly and I believe Up-B hits Gordos without trading? Banking it all on a rage down tilt I'd say.

But I believe Lycan's pocket dedede is up in wins (as is his Doc?) against Zee's Pikachu. Take that as you will.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Gales strike has way too much start-up and end lag to be thrown out.
Airborne Assault is a recovery, all I need either of them to be because frankly they're both poor on the ground and Chakram isn't being run with Shuriken. Blade counter doesn't really offer you much, its still decent given what it is but its not offering you something credible you can't get elsewhere.

How I look at his specials are

Projectiles: Gale, Shuriken, Chakram,
Horizontal gap closers: Airborne, Power Thrust, Slash Launcher
Recovery: All 3 Up specials
Close range defensive option: Blade counter, Neutral 3, Reversal Slash. Stone Scabbard and grounded Hero spin might fall in here.

Gale's start up is ridiculous, its silly to the point I need them further away from me then if I'm using Chakram or Shuriken to be safe. If they're far away from me it does next to nothing. The start-up is so huge they're unlikely to touch it and the end lag is high enough that I can't hope for any momentum off of it. Does it eat projectiles? Yeah quite a few, doesn't put me in a better place however again because of its lag, and I can be shot between shots.
Or put it another way, who is Gale strike helping me against specifically and are those characters prevalent enough for me to prioritize it? You don't want to give Samus, Lucario, Gunner or any of the like free charges so you aren't going to sit their spamming the lag bot. Sonic, Falcon, Mac, Shulk, Paletuna, Fox, ZSS are going to catch you during start-up/endlag or shrug it off as irrelevant because it is. If you think Airborne assault is predictable, Gale strike is a 7 day forecast. I am not impressed by it at all. Why should I really take this over Shuriken when Shuriken is far better disruption and provides quick coverage with far less commitment. I'm not trying to get Dash-grabbed from the otherside of the stage but Gale is slow enough for that to actually happen.

Shuriken and Chakram are both solid, Chakrams only problem is that Gale strike and Neutral 3 don't hold their weight. Chakram gets forced out just because running it with shuriken is redundant.

Airborne isn't really something you use on stage from the beginning and as far as SDing go, if anyones really going to invest their time in Sword Fighter they will learn their positioning. You don't invest into Little Mac or Charizard and not become cognizant of when Flare Blitz or haymaker is a potential suicide. Airborne Assault does fair well as a Horizontal recovery, and I'll gladly slot it for that given my other options. Slash Launcher can be run on the ground and works horizontally. Like I said before you basically take AA unless theres an argument for Slash because Shuriken+Chakram is sub-optimal. I see SL's validity, but I'd prioritize AA myself.

Neutral 3 would be an option if the hits just bloody linked together, its faster then his jab (but what isn't), and its what 16% if everything connects? A shame, because I don't feel a problem connecting with it, but then they fall/jump out and its a bad situation.

Blade Counter seems to have no Knockback and maybe its just playing shulk too much but it isn't a rewarding counter at all, it can help you land in a pinch, but so can Power Thrust. I wont call it a bad option yet, simply an uninteresting one with lackluster rewards.

I wouldn't look for SF to a poor mans *anything* and I think anyone playing him shouldn't look for that anyways. When restricted to 1111, you've got to go "Why am I using him instead of X,Y and Z?" with the rest of the set you know its "because X, Y and Z don't have these options bundled together or at all".
He has good aerials, a valid Dtilt, a valid Dsmash, shuriken is alright coverage, reversal slash/Power thrust are solid choices that add more option coverage and hero's spin isn't a slouch.


Ah whatever I'll go bite the Bullet and run Swordfighter on some guys next week.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I mean shuriken and power thrust alone tie his neutral game together so well.

If Marth had a projectile. I mean he doesn't need one since he's quick, but imagine shooting a quick beam of light from Falchion and being able to chase after it.

muhahahaha