Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST

[goodoldganon]

He replaces Marth. Its still Marth on select screen, in game, and the announcer and crowd still call him Marth.

D-air is being worked on, I'm trying something a little different.

 

[VietGeek]

Roy my boy, spiking is what all FE lords strive for.

Seriously...with all the spikes he's getting, even Marth+ and Ike+ will know that...

Roy IS OUR BOY.

;___;

3,333...

wow SWF has become my life.

 

[goodoldganon]

wow SWF has become my life.

Tell me about it (referring to himself)

 

[GHNeko]

...I went from 200 posts to 1700+ posts in like 3 months

Both of you shut up.

 

[Arkaether]

200 posts in a month. Woo \o/

...christ, I need a life, don't I.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

He replaces Marth. Its still Marth on select screen, in game, and the announcer and crowd still call him Marth.

well yeah, I know that, but whenever I choose red Marth (texture is Roy), it's still Marth with his regular physics.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Remember when the game first came out and people hacked the files to see what was there... was there left over Roy data?

And is there any possible way any of that could be worked into this project?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Wasn't the Roy Data just junk data? There wasn't actually anything in it was there?

 

[VietGeek]

Wasn't the Roy Data just junk data? There wasn't actually anything in it was there?

Yeah, if you open it with a Hex editor, nothing is in there but a header.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Ah, I couldn't really remember. That sucks. Woulda been sweet for overall polish if there was some legit stuff that coulda been accessed.

 

[MookieRah]

The current Roy is probably better than whatever Sakurai would have cooked up anyways more than likely.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

I wish I could see this Roy... why is no one throwing vids up... other than those two that went up... I'm gunna go watch them again and wish I could play.

 

[MookieRah]

I should have videos up tomorrow afternoon Mercutio. My friend gets off of work at around 6:30, so we will play then and record.

 

[Unseen_Killa]

This is really cool and all, but I still can't get over the fact that it's just Marth with a custom texture. I can't wait till model editing is possible.

However, it is still important to work on his moveset and stuff, and for that, good job guys.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

I should have videos up tomorrow afternoon Mercutio. My friend gets off of work at around 6:30, so we will play then and record.

YAY! I'm looking forward to them.

 

[ToxiCrow]

so i'm playing with the Roy codeset and for some reason Wolf's standing animation is his running animation but frozen. is this happening to anyone else?

 

[goodoldganon]

so i'm playing with the Roy codeset and for some reason Wolf's standing animation is his running animation but frozen. is this happening to anyone else?

Odd. I'll look into it. I must have made a mistake somewhere.

 

[leafgreen386]

Ok, I just played a bit with the most recent changes.

Fair tip needs 100 growth, not 150 growth. Maybe even a small base reduction (bring it down to 35).

Uair tip needs to go down to 30 growth from 45.

The bair tip is about perfect right now, though. I also really like his current nair.

Usmash really wants about 10 frames less lag for proper techchasing off of the tip, just as fsmash wants 4-5 less frames of lag. Although for usmash, you're probably gonna need to nerf it somewhere else to keep it balanced (probably add a couple frames of startup).

Also... his DD goes a quarter of the length of FD... do we really want it to be this good?

And for those complaining about all of the spikes roy is getting... I don't really see the problem. His bair is a weak spike used for 1) gimping and edgeguarding or 2) leading into dtilt or utilt at almost any percentage on the stage. His uair needs to be fixed to have less growth and it'll be great as a way to bring the opponent back down while juggling them (apparently this was supposed to be fixed already, but I feel it could still serve to go lower). His dair would be primarily used as an actual spike when on the ledge and in techchasing on the stage, similar to the bair. The bair and dair would really be used in entirely different situations, while the uair is a whole other breed of spike altogether. And then there's the spike on the third hit up of sideB, which would be a very situational move as well.

 

[MookieRah]

Wait, the fair tip had a 150 growth O_o. **** that's a lot. No need for that.

Also, why the hell is his DD that good? It seemed really good when I was playing with him, but I never tried determining it's max length. I'd like to keep it intact though XD, but yeah, maybe a slight nerf to it is in order.

Other than that, this is a write up so GoG can remember to do all the changes we are discussing in the IRC

Uair changes:
Drop the ALR to 30%

Make uair blade hit have an even lower base, the goal of this is to make it more of a stun move to disorient the opponent so it could set up for a dtilt.

Make the uair tip weak with very little growth. Also, try to make it work so that a tipped grounded uair can setup for a grab.

 

[WhalesOnStilts]

so i'm playing with the Roy codeset and for some reason Wolf's standing animation is his running animation but frozen. is this happening to anyone else?

its not happening to me :\

 

[•Col•]

I just realized something... No "Roy's our boy" chant in Brawl.............................. *cries*

Just a question... Is it even POSSIBLE to insert sounds(namely, those for the Announcer/crowd *cough*) into Brawl? ;-; It really won't just be the same without that chant...

 

[GHNeko]

I just realized something... No "Roy's our boy" chant in Brawl.............................. *cries*

Just a question... Is it even POSSIBLE to insert sounds(namely, those for the Announcer/crowd *cough*) into Brawl? ;-; It really won't just be the same without that chant...

Yeep with ISO hacking LOL.

 

[Kuga]

I just realized something... No "Roy's our boy" chant in Brawl.............................. *cries*

Just a question... Is it even POSSIBLE to insert sounds(namely, those for the Announcer/crowd *cough*) into Brawl? ;-; It really won't just be the same without that chant...

If they can Extract the Announcer saying ''Roy!'' from Melee,that's good. :D(same with his atacks sounds.

 

[•Col•]

Yeep with ISO hacking LOL.

Bleeeeeh..... I hate ISO hacking... D: So are you saying that it would't be possible to just load it from an SD card or something......?

 

[MookieRah]

In GoG's haste to go to sleepz he didn't post saying he updated the Roy file. He did update the main page to have the link, so go there to check it out.


Changes that need to be made:
Fair tip needs a slightly lower angle. Leaf said to try 122 or 123 (currently it's 120).

Fsmash is a bit too fast now, lol. Slow it down a few frames on the wind down.

Everything else is amazing. Uair is useful now, the blade stuns people to where you can set up for dtilts and ground assaults. The tip of it brings them down a tad until high percents, and then if they hit the ground they are stunned a bit. It's really quite amazing.

All the tips have, what feels to be, the right amount of knockback and growth.

Really, there aren't many more changes that need to be made. The only big things left to do is somehow finding a way to remove Roy from the universal run speed increase (slowing him down to about 85% of the speed he has now) and adjusting the hitboxes so that the tips are larger.

For those who are scared by the slow down, just know that the tip adjustments will more than make up for that. Also, it was our plan in the beginning for Roy to be slower, as he was in Melee, and really the amount of control he will have will eclipse your love for super fast Roy.

[Edit]
Almost forgot, the dash attack needs a change.

The tip should function how the blade hit does now, except the goal of it is to put the enemy slightly behind and above Roy. Like the other tips it needs a low growth so it's fairly consistent throughout. Maybe at early percents it puts them in front of Roy, but at high percents they are behind.

The blade hit should smack someone similar to an ftilt.

This move will be hard to tip with till the hitbox change though, but we might as well have it working and ready for those changes.

 

[metaXzero]

Bleeeeeh..... I hate ISO hacking... D: So are you saying that it would't be possible to just load it from an SD card or something......?

If Phantom Wings was able to figure out how to load textures from an SD Card, surely someone can figure out the same for sounds.

Too bad not every hacker is as epic as PW.

 

[Sukai]

Marth came before Roy? they both showed up in Melee so no one really came before the other one, your statement would be right if Marth had appeared in a more recent Smash, which he didn't. We're not talking about their Games or FE releases, this is Smash, not Fire Emblem, and in Smash, the both showed up together.

Also, bring balance to Brawl? Alright, why don't we all balance up Ganondorf and Captain Falcon and make them high tier? Oh wait, then we'll have to mess everyone up to make them higher tier, so it matchs Metaknight, oh wait, then Meta Knight would be low tier, we'll have to get him up!

Ahem.
Marth starred in the first FE game. Roy starred in the fifth, which wasn't even out when Melee launched. In Melee, Marth is unlocked before Roy in each possible way that does not involve Gameshark.
So impression states that Marth came before Roy, in every context. This is fact unlike your rant.

Falcon and Ganon were balanced, not "zomg mk fier", in case you are unaware, balance is not making all characters top tier, it's making them all tournament viable, all the same, some characters will still be better than others.
Oh yeah, this Roy+ isn't tournament standard and is therefore exempt from tiers, which are for the most part, tourney based.

 

[Plum]

Definitely needs the slowdown.

In Melee he made up for his physically slower movement compared to Marth with a faster SHFFL game, and that's how it should be here too. The difference now is that his SHFFL game is good and rewards you for spacing well XD

Falcon and Ganon were balanced, not "zomg mk fier", in case you are unaware, balance is not making all characters top tier, it's making them all tournament viable, all the same, some characters will still be better than others.
Oh yeah, this Roy+ isn't tournament standard and is therefore exempt from tiers, which are for the most part, tourney based.

Well at the moment obviously he is exempt from tiers, but the groundwork now will set up for him becoming a perfectly viable and balanced character. Separating Roy from Marth is in the works already thanks to Almas, so is there really a reason to not make him a legal character?
Obviously he shouldn't even be concerned for anything outside of fun until we go Gold but assuming Roy is balanced out he will only do good for the metagame by making it a more rich game.
Obviously too many characters will break the balance, and you can't go around saying "X character has to be tweaked to be Y new character" because really it will be too difficult to balance the game and it opens up the floodgates for new demands. But come on, who doesn't want to see that stupid 39 go to an even 40?

 

[MookieRah]

I can't wait for the hitbox changes. That's pretty much the last piece of the puzzle right there. It's going to be awesome. Anyways, try out the latest Roy, he's so close to being done.

 

[WhalesOnStilts]

Is he the same weight as Marth?

 

[Dark Sonic]

Is he the same weight as Marth?

Well techincally yes he's the same "weight" as Marth. But his grav values are much, much higher, so for practicallities sake you can say that he's "heavier" than Marth (with regards to vertical launch distances)

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Sorry to bug you guys, but can someone give me a working .gct without the file replacement? I tried making it myself but the roy changes didn't come in (I noticed with the dtilt) and I can never get new pork city > waiting room code to work with snapshots. Anyone wanna help? Thanks in advance, I REALLY want to try this.

 

[goodoldganon]

I need a talented Roy Melee main to help me design DED. Dark_Sonic wanted to help, but another doesn't hurt. Send me a PM and we'll work out a time and date

 

[cAm8ooo]

Crazy *** Roy matches will be uploaded tomorrow. Near 0-death combos, close matches, get pumped.

Also, most epic fox vs wolf match ever. Wolfs gun glitches and causes a "standby" effect and near 0-death comeback.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, if you open it with a Hex editor, nothing is in there but a header.

So how deeply rooted in so many weird and wonderful ways is each individual character though?

Could the 'empty file' actually be replaced with Marth and then Roy?

I know that would probably take hundreds of years of work, but eh... What's possible if you just take Marths files right now and replicate them to follow the game's data format but just 'Roy' (in name only).

Getting the game to load Marth from the Roy pointer, is borderline godly amazing.
It should/could be investigated.

 

[matt4300]

Just played a good bit with the newest roy. Even with his "the worst recovery in the game" hes seems to be getting more balanced. Some things you already know but I'm gonna go for another list.

Fsmash needs more end lag (try to find a happy medium. Atleast to where hes not punished for a tip)

Theres no reason for ftilt to be as fast as it is its crazy and doesnt feel very roy. It was cool before everything eles got so perfect. (try and slow it to where a tip still has combos but you cant spam the **** out of it as a spaceing move)

Uair damage? why is it so low? I mean him pika and meta have the lowest % uairs in the game. Nerfed squirtle does more damage. Kings of chaining uair like kirby and zamus both do 10 damage. Its not like he can chain them more than meta, pika, kirby, or zamus. (tip 8 sword hit 9 come on man it is much to weak) Fair tip is also insanly weak. 5% tip is really low. (7%?) the 9 for the sword hit is fine though.

Nair, jab and run attack still work like marth (the tip is the damaging part) though I don't know if it was intentional.

Run attack either needs to do more damage (like 12 sword hit 10 tipped) or set up for combos. Because right now its useless. Mookie has already gone over this.

usmash is still complete ****, but I've said this. Ive also listed why it sucked... ways to fix it would be to either get rid of the pointless spike and make the tip a weaker less kb hit. So Tip for combos/sword hit for damage, or speed up the end lag so its less punishable on a miss or a ****ty back/front side hit. (tip also badly needs more damage 5%? WTF)

Everything eles is PERFECT, sakurai coudnet have done better himself. Hes **** near perfect I just think slowing his tilts would make him feel much more roy and some of his damages are too low compared to the rest of the cast. Hes doing less than shiek damage in the air right now.

Oh and ofcourse the tip size ajustments... but theres no reason to mention that other than being thorough.

 

[goodoldganon]

Also, most epic fox vs wolf match ever. Wolfs gun glitches and causes a "standby" effect and near 0-death comeback.

That's the second Wolf glitch I've heard. Anyone else getting odd Wolf occurrences?

 

[MookieRah]

Theres no reason for ftilt to be as fast as it is its crazy and doesnt feel very roy.

As much as I hate to admit this, you are right. I think perhaps having the actual attack portion a lil longer but adjust the wind down so you can combo off it would work well.

Nair, jab and run attack still work like marth (the tip is the damaging part) though I don't know if it was intentional.

Nair has less knockback and growth so that it combos better. Also the tip pulls people toward and above Roy. It's actually more different than the difference between Melee Marth's nair and Roy's nair. They always functioned incredibly similar, it's just that Roy used the nair more because it's a better shffl move.

But yeah, other than a frame speed increase on the jab, both it and the dash attack haven't been altered to be a Roy move yet.

usmash is still complete ****

I agree. Leaf was going to speed it up a bit. I think the reason it tips all the time is that in brawl a hitbox starts and moves with the attack, unlike in Melee where the hitboxes are sometimes amorphous blobs and hitboxes (such as the upsmash spike tip) sorta appear late in the attack. In other words, cause Roy's sword tip starts at the beginning of the attack and moves up, if you hit someone that isn't on top of you it will cause the tip to hit first, spiking them.

I honestly think the move would function better if the tip didn't spike, but the hitboxes to the left and right of Roy spike. That way you could actually use the spike, and the upsmash could be used to rack up lots of damage and juggle a lil at early percents.

 

[GirugaMarc]

That's the second Wolf glitch I've heard. Anyone else getting odd Wolf occurrences?

I do recall Wolf's Lasers sort of freezing the game for a split second whenever he used them

 

[Me_Aludes]

I do recall Wolf's Lasers sort of freezing the game for a split second whenever he used them

That happens to me only when I use an specific Wolf texture (a green Wolf, I think), which was included in Lord Khanti's pack of textures. Afaik, it only happens with this texture (maybe some other wolf textures too). Can anyone confirm that?