Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST

[MookieRah]

There is no way to add Roy to vBrawl, cause using codes on vBrawl makes it no longer vBrawl. Seeing as the vBrawl scene holds a lot of disdain for B+ I don't see a group of people making a vBrawl mod any time soon.

Besides auroreon, have you even tried B+? It seems like most people who hate B+ just hate it cause they feel as if we are making it Melee 2.0, or the simple fact that we are altering the game and it's some kind of unethical gaming abomination. People should try it before knocking it, it's a lot of fun. Hell, I still enjoy vBrawl myself. I'm training up a Falcon to win an anime convention tournament XD. It's not like we are out to destroy vBrawl, it's more so that we are simply not satisfied with it as a competitive game.

 

[Wolfric]

Hmm, question, will it be possible to add Roy a s asingle character(Not a Marth costume) with its own place on the Character list anytime?

Also, I do understand what you're doing, that's grea to know, I've always tried maining Ganon/Link/Sonic other than Zelda, but had no luck on SSBB at all hahah, thought I did good with Sonic and Link, keep up the work!

 

[GHNeko]

Marth came before Roy? they both showed up in Melee so no one really came before the other one, your statement would be right if Marth had appeared in a more recent Smash, which he didn't. We're not talking about their Games or FE releases, this is Smash, not Fire Emblem, and in Smash, the both showed up together.

...Are you nuts? In order to find out if someone is a clone, you look at their smash history. If that doesn't help, you go to canon.

IF YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED. That FE Icon that FE character's use, is Marth's Sword. Not Roy's. Not Ike's. Meaning that he represents the FE series, as you know Fire Emblem is an actual item in the first FE game...which Marth is star in. <_<

That and Roy was only included in Melee to Promote FE6.

AND You ALWAYS unlock Marth before Roy. As you NEED Marth to unlock Roy.

wtf. Why is this even a debate?

 

[Kuga]

Hmm, question, will it be possible to add Roy a s asingle character(Not a Marth costume) with its own place on the Character list anytime?!

They are working on it.

 

[Wolfric]

...Are you nuts? In order to find out if someone is a clone, you look at their smash history. If that doesn't help, you go to canon.

IF YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED. That FE Icon that FE character's use, is Marth's Sword. Not Roy's. Not Ike's. Meaning that he represents the FE series, as you know Fire Emblem is an actual item in the first FE game...which Marth is star in. <_<

That and Roy was only included in Melee to Promote FE6.

AND You ALWAYS unlock Marth before Roy. As you NEED Marth to unlock Roy.

wtf. Why is this even a debate?

Easy there, I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm just trolling ;D If it bothers you, you have problems

Even thought the Sword is Marth's, I don't care, they both showe dup in the same game, they should be threaten as equals ****it

 

[auroreon]

There is no way to add Roy to vBrawl, cause using codes on vBrawl makes it no longer vBrawl. Seeing as the vBrawl scene holds a lot of disdain for B+ I don't see a group of people making a vBrawl mod any time soon.

Besides auroreon, have you even tried B+? It seems like most people who hate B+ just hate it cause they feel as if we are making it Melee 2.0, or the simple fact that we are altering the game and it's some kind of unethical gaming abomination. People should try it before knocking it, it's a lot of fun. Hell, I still enjoy vBrawl myself. I'm training up a Falcon to win an anime convention tournament XD. It's not like we are out to destroy vBrawl, it's more so that we are simply not satisfied with it as a competitive game.

I am completely behind the idea of balancing Brawl. I think its an amazing idea and the fact that we have the oppertunity to increase the competetive nature of the game and bring more character diversity is brilliant.
I love the idea of editing games to make them more competetive, Coders > Sakurai any day. If someone were to try and balance vBrawl I would be completely supportive and back the project 100%,
This is vaguely what the intentions of B+ are, but for me one thing about B+ completely ruins it for me. Hitstun.
I really would like to enjoy B+ because it is what I had hoped for since the release of Brawl and I have tryed it many times, but I like Brawl because of the lack of hitstun, its what put me off competetive level Melee.
I'm not knocking B+, I can see how its really a great way for ex-Melee players to get into Brawl, but personaly I don't like combos and I don't like hitstun and for that reason, I personaly do not like Brawl+.

 

[GHNeko]

I am completely behind the idea of balancing Brawl. I think its an amazing idea and the fact that we have the oppertunity to increase the competetive nature of the game and bring more character diversity is brilliant.
I love the idea of editing games to make them more competetive, Coders > Sakurai any day. If someone were to try and balance vBrawl I would be completely supportive and back the project 100%,
This is vaguely what the intentions of B+ are, but for me one thing about B+ completely ruins it for me. Hitstun.
I really would like to enjoy B+ because it is what I had hoped for since the release of Brawl and I have tryed it many times, but I like Brawl because of the lack of hitstun, its what put me off competetive level Melee.
I'm not knocking B+, I can see how its really a great way for ex-Melee players to get into Brawl, but personaly I don't like combos and I don't like hitstun and for that reason, I personaly do not like Brawl+.

Then you must not of liked 64 either. <_<

You are definitely in the minority of people who don't like hitstun, and that is a Smaaallll minority.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I want Mewtwo in like crazy. He's my boy. So is Roy. When we have the ability to make a professional Mewtwo, I will be on top of that mofo, and I will make him amazing. I already have several ideas to improve him.

I personally think it would be best to wait until you can easily take moves from one character and put them onto another character before making Mewtwo though. Just based on remembering what his moves were in Melee, compared to the current characters in Brawl. Like, using Lucas's Dsmash sped up a lot as Mewtwo's Dsmash, Ness's Uthrow but buffed, Lucario's Neutral B for obvious reasons, Zelda's Up B, etc. Otherwise, it would be hard to make an accurate

*goes off to make who's moves should be used for Mewtwo's again for fun*

 

[Steelia]

@GHNeko: With the whole Marth-Roy-clone debate... if I recall correctly, isn't Marth's moveset more Roy-based? According to his games, Marth is actually closer to Link's style of attacking, whereas Roy is the one doing all the downward slashing... which is the moveset he has in Melee. (Marth's B move in Brawl is more accurate as to how he'd work, to be more precise.)

@Steelia
I want Mewtwo in like crazy. He's my boy. So is Roy. When we have the ability to make a professional Mewtwo, I will be on top of that mofo, and I will make him amazing. I already have several ideas to improve him.

This post has large quantities of
WIN.


I'll be sure to be right behind supporting you ifever that comes to pass.

 

[Wolfric]

Hahah me and Mookie ar ein the same position.

 

[GHNeko]

@GHNeko: With the whole Marth-Roy-clone debate... if I recall correctly, isn't Marth's moveset more Roy-based? According to his games, Marth is actually closer to Link's style of attacking, whereas Roy is the one doing all the downward slashing... which is the moveset he has in Melee. (Marth's B move in Brawl is more accurate as to how he'd work, to be more precise.)

Link or It's not true.

 

[MookieRah]

Hahah me and Mookie ar ein the same position.

Lol, I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, but *shrug* I don't really care XD.

Why are we debating Roy and Marth stuff that is irrelevant? Come on guys, lets get back on task here.

This is vaguely what the intentions of B+ are, but for me one thing about B+ completely ruins it for me. Hitstun.

I know exactly how you feel to be honest. I used to hate vBrawl for the longest time, but got back into it right before jumping back on the B+ bandwagon. I really like the fact that I have to mindgame in combos and lots of setups with Falcon. It definitely has it's on allure to it, I'm not going to lie. The thing is, as GHNeko pointed out, that is completely and totally unlike how smash ever was. That and the fact that people just in general love combos and things being fast paced.

I'd love to see a vBrawl+ group in the future, where they keep the game physics the same but just balance all the characters similar to how we are doing thing with B+. I'm a bit reluctant to admit that, as it would just splinter the competitive community even further, but if vBrawl starts dying out (not that likely) and they don't want to switch to B+ it should definitely be a reality.

*goes off to make who's moves should be used for Mewtwo's again for fun*

You forgot that Mewtwo would need Lucas's nair. All we'd have to do is increase the hitbox size to fit Mewtwo's body and slow it down so that the entire sequence lasts much longer.

I'd also push hard to bring DJC (double jump canceling back) as well as making sure that if you perform an aerial at the apex of Mewtwo's second jump that he gets that extra boost like he did in Melee.

Some general buffs I'd give Mewtwo:
1: Make him heavier, he's so big and slow yet he's light as balls? BS!
2: Make his tail not a hurtbox. This is probably fixed by Brawl, as hitting Lucario's tail doesn't hit him, or at least I don't think it does.
3: Make his fair have a little more range than it did, but still act exactly like it used to.
4: Make bair faster.
5: Give uair more growth so that it combos at low percent and kills better at high percent.
6: Make fsmash slightly faster (I's not that powerful, but it's super slow.)
7: Lessen the winddown of ftilt.

I think that's about it.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ok guys, here is my to do list today.

• Buff the B-air spike
• Speed up d-air and come up with something new for it. It has 4 hitboxes. The Hilt, blade, semi-tip and very tip.
• Give Up-b some more BKB cause making Roy not go into fall special after Up-b gives him infinite up-bs. I was trying for Up-b -> B-air. Also, make it turn people around
• F-air feels too Marth like right now, I feel like I'm spamming it too much like Marth would.
• Do something with N-air. I'm thinking medium damage, low knockback attack making it ideal for combing. His aerial combo move of choice
• Nerf D-smash
• Bring the F-smash blade hit to 17 and the tip to 11. From 15 and 10 respectively.
• Add the extra hitstun ID to jabs and U-air
• Fix U-air spike
• Slow U-tilt down and return it Marth's knockback and damage.

Tell me what you guys think.

 

[bajisci]

Roy is SOO much fun i am honestly very surprised, one thing though. I think he should be able to double jump uair > dair so that he can tipper the uair and then dair them :D. Once i play with humans ill give real feedback though

 

[CloneHat]

I think UpB would be a lot better if you made it a combo-ender move, which would help finish off high up air combos.

 

[cAm8ooo]

I have some Roy matches ill be uploading today vs ZSS and Falco. It was from the set released yesterday but their still pretty fun to watch. I love Roy so much, I'm still not too great with him yet (I didnt play Roy in Melee) but ill be working on it.

 

[Wolfric]

I meant we're both wanting Mewtwo/Roy back in.

goodoldganon, did the Fire animation was fully added to Roy's last 2 hits? In the vid I only saw it on the last hit, also, the Up B, could that be turned more into Roy's fire Up B?

 

[GHNeko]

Ok guys, here is my to do list today.

• Buff the B-air spike
• Speed up d-air and come up with something new for it. It has 4 hitboxes. The Hilt, blade, semi-tip and very tip.
• Give Up-b some more BKB cause making Roy not go into fall special after Up-b gives him infinite up-bs. I was trying for Up-b -> B-air. Also, make it turn people around
• F-air feels too Marth like right now, I feel like I'm spamming it too much like Marth would.
• Do something with N-air. I'm thinking medium damage, low knockback attack making it ideal for combing. His aerial combo move of choice
• Nerf D-smash
• Bring the F-smash blade hit to 17 and the tip to 11. From 15 and 10 respectively.
• Add the extra hitstun ID to jabs and U-air
• Fix U-air spike
• Slow U-tilt down and return it Marth's knockback and damage.

Tell me what you guys think.

Shrink the size of the hilt hitbox and have it spike. :D

 

[MookieRah]

Have the blade hit of dair still spike, but have the hilt be a more powerful spike. Have the semi-tip knock the opponent upwards a lot, and have the tip knock the opponent upwards a little. No shrinking of hitboxes for the hilt, lets make it not borderline impossible to spike plox.

Also, utilt should be stronger than Marth's. It needs some KO potential. At least increase the growth, so that way at low percents it can still act similar to Marth's, but it grows into a KO move at high percent. The tip of utilt should also spike, this isn't for a spike off the stage as much as it is to bring the opponent back down and possibly into a smash or something.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If you want to make the fair feel less like Marth's, have it act like Ike's and hit like a freight train. Obviously slow it down a bit, but that would prevent people from using his fair like Marth's, and it's too short to be used defensively like Ike's fair.

 

[GHNeko]

Untipper Fair should hit hard, Tipped should send up with less power but with extra stun.

 

[cAm8ooo]

cAm8k (Roy) vs David (ZSS)

cAm8k(Roy) vs David (Falco)

Roy is too fun.

 

[Cytrs]

How'd you change the shields? I have Brawl+ 4.1 beta & texture hacks (i know roy isn't just a texture, he was made by goodoldganon) and my shields aren't as cool as yours.

 

[MK26]

cAm8k (Roy) vs David (ZSS)

cAm8k(Roy) vs David (Falco)

Roy is too fun.

needz moar cbp
and kirby

 

[leafgreen386]

Just played a ton of roy, although I see it was with an outdated version (I d/l'd the set at around 10 PM EST yesterday). Good to see bair and dair ALR got fixed, as well as the blazer not sending people anywhere. I think fair ALR actually needs to be a little bit lower than it is right now, too, or possibly just his ALR in general. No matter how fast you are in the air, a large part of having fast shffl's is actually having a fast landing.

His gravity felt perfect on the setting I was on... he just needed more ugrav (as in... 1.4 ugrav). I see you lowered it, though. On a related note, I actually like his recovery sucking like it does now. It means we can pretty much go all out with him and it won't break the character.

Anyway, his fair is actually kinda disappointing right now. You should give my values for the tip a try: 5 damage, 150 growth, 40 base, and a 120 degree angle. Might be a bit too good, but we'll see. The current fair sends down, which is highly disappointing even at high percents.

If the bair spike is currently a meteor, it needs to become a spike. It doesn't need to be stronger, though.

Fsmash needs about 4-5 frames less lag. Would make the techchasing off of the tip a little bit better without ruining its punishability.

Usmash tip is very cool, but it also needs a little less lag (possibly coupled with a startup increase to keep the move balanced). It's not really worth using right now. I think the base hit should hit into the tip hit if the opp doesn't DI, but enable them to SDI out if they saw the move coming.

 

[MookieRah]

The change to the bair spike was make it have more base but less growth, so it could be a good early gimp move, and at high percents bair would probably kill better due to it's massive power. I think it should stay meteor, cause I fear for Bowser and DK players.

For fsmash, are you asking for 4-5 less winddown? I think that's what you are asking for. I don't think you would want to tip with it, ever, although it might be to bad of a mistake with how it currently is set. I would assume that your opponent would be able to hit you before Roy recovered from it from a tipped fsmash. I like how it has a built in weakness to be honest though, it helps balance it.

 

[goodoldganon]

Incoming new set lots of tweaks and changes

 

[linkelfice510]

That could explain why the one you posted this morning won't DL for me...

 

[goodoldganon]

CHANGES SINCE THE 2:44 AM SET:

• Added the extra hitstun ID to the two jabs.
• F-tilt blade hits have slightly more base and growth
• D-tilt has slightly less growth
• U-tilt now strikes from frames 6-19 instead of 6 to 13. It also received a KB buff making is a mildly strong, slow, sweeping slash.
• F-smash now does 18 damage on the blade hits and 11 on tips. KB should be relatively the same.
• D-smash is down to 18 damage and slightly less base.
• N-air has less growth and base making it Roy's aerial combo move and approach.
• F-air blade hits have much more base knockback but very low growth.
• F-air tip entirely redone. Used Leaf's suggestions. 150 growth, 40 base, 120 angle.
• B-air tip is now a little stronger of a spike.
• D-air has 10 less frames of winddown. Still unsure of what to do with the hitbox though...
• U-air blade hits up from 6 damage to 7. Also added the extra hitstun ID.
• U-air tip hits should function as intended. (A weak pull down)
• Up-b is a single hit 9 damage move with large base but no growth. A good aerial finisher for light characters near the top of the screen.

KNOWN BUGS AND BALANCE ISSUES:

• 
  
  [*]Over-B (Double Edge Dance) needs reworked completely
  [*]U-smash can act up from time to time
  [*]Shield Breaker and Counter need frame adjustments
  [*]Is F-air blade hit too good at gimping?
  [*]F-air always combos into D-smash, at nearly any percent. Needs adjusted

TO DO LIST:

• Edit the sword swinging sounds. His sword sounds too much like Marth's.
• Fine tune the gravity
• Edit tip and sweetspot hitbox sizes.

 

[Plum]

His physics feel so much better now, that's my favorite thing as far as the changes since the first release.

As far as Dair goes I would like to see it as a stage move to pop the opponent up (which would mean low ALR) while basically being a bad choice off stage except the rare off the edge use. Bair should be his go to gimper, so the spike should definitely be a bit stronger without being overdone for a move with that kind of reach.

I would like to see how Leaf's Fair plays out. Currently I use the move but only out of habit because I haven't played Roy in so long and I'm more used to Marth. I would like Nair to be the go to move, but Fair just seems to be lacking. It has great horizontal reach, and while it certainly shouldn't be thrown out like Marth it really needs more of a purpose.

Dtilt is sex. Seriously, the sweetspot is just sex. It was my favorite part about Roy in Melee and I'm still loving it, especially with the fix.

Other then that, I don't know what to say that hasn't been said regarding what needs to be fixed or possible changes.

Edit: And of course as soon as I post this, a new set is up I can hopefully get some time with it later tonight, but we'll see.

Another edit: o_O 640 lines of hitbox modification data... Just think back to the days of 256 lines...

 

[MookieRah]

I currently love the new fair. It's sexy on the blade hit, and even more so on the fair tip. It seems to be really helpful as opposed to earlier when it didn't do much. I fair tipped to nair to ftilt tipped to fsmash and joygasmed.

UpB may be too powerful. It has a set strong knockback with no growth, meaning that even at 0% if you are way up high and are hit by it then it's very dangerous. It can be DI'd and it's very mediocre then, but I can see how this may need to be toned down slightly. People recovering high withought DI against Roy will be punished with possible KO, and seeing as how he is beast on stage it's just bad news. I say for now we test, and people remember to DI. Keep a lookout for this move, I think it works very well and should be kept in, just toned down. BTW, it ***** Meta LOLZ.

Although utilt is super slow, I love it. I think some people will want it sped up just cause it looks a bit odd. I'm fine with that too, but utilt = you are not safe with airdodge against Roy lolz. It's sex.

Uair spike still too strong. At this point I think we should just find the right base and give it 0 or next to no growth. The idea behind that move is to simply grab them into an utilt, but at high percent it could be used like a bair to spike and lets face it, Roy has enough spikes as is.

Bair meteor might be too strong, other than that it's awesome.

I think right now that Roy is most likely broke as ****, but his playstyle is what we wanted. So basically if we can tone him down a little and keep him functioning the same we are gold. He's way, way, way more fun than Marth. **** that dude.

 

[WhalesOnStilts]

Does Roy have the most spikes in the game now?

 

[GHNeko]

He's way, way, way more fun than Marth. **** that dude.

;__________;

 

[Arkaether]

But GHNeko, he speaks truth.

 

[cAm8ooo]

needz moar cbp
and kirby

Agreed on the kirby.

Whats cbp?

 

[GHNeko]

But GHNeko, he speaks truth.

No he doesnt. ;____;

 

[MK26]

He's way, way, way more fun than Marth. **** that dude.

Exactly. Roy is why Brawl+ is fun. Hint, hint.

Agreed on the kirby.

Whats cbp?

Character Battle Portrait. The picture you see durinng the battle and on the results screen.

 

[Arkaether]

But GHNeko, Roy's sword explodes. Marth has a tiara.

 

[MookieRah]

OK, a few recants from earlier.

The upB thing seems very situational. Trying for that now doesn't do much. I just got lucky the first few times I tried for it. It's still very good, especially against super floaties like Jiggs, Meta, and Kirby.

Uptilt is a lil too slow. That is completely my fault though, I told GoG to make it that slow. I think the original idea of having it 2/3rds Marth's speed is best. So have it last from 6-15 or 6-16 would be best GoG.

Fair tip needs less growth. I think, for the most part, all tips need less growth, possibly no growth. The function of the tip was to bring them to you, not make them go towards you but fly past you at 90 miles an hour XD.

Nair tip is amazing.

I don't think Roy is broke now. At least not until someone masters him. He can do amazing things with tips at the right moments, but it will take a while to master the tips like that. I think when we get the hitbox code changes to make the tips easier to land and the blade harder to land it would make him a bit easier to play overall and allow for more tip mistakes (so the blade sweetspot isn't so ******** easy to land). He's so much fun though. He's like old Roy on crack.

 

[Kuga]

What about give him a set KB with a good KB on his Up-B,and most of the Verticaly
Just a random sugestion. '-'