Brawl's been out for over a year now...

[ETWIST51294]

Yeah. Melee has like 13 almost-impossible matchups, Brawl has like..2. Yeah, it's true.

There are no impossible matchups in melee and if there are brawl has more. Your making yourself sound real stupid right now. Read my other post.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Yeah.

Because we should totally base balance on tournament results at Genesis.

It shows how much more balance Melee has compared to Brawl. Brawl's top 4 was 1 Snake and 3 MK's. Mk himself is one of the main reasons Brawl is unbalanced.

Brawl is definitely my favorite, but I still dream about the next one having an actually epic 1P Mode.

I too share this dream. Even if my hopes were crushed once by the SSE.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

lol @ samus being overused

Samus was top gtier in melee and quite a few players used her.

tbh, the bad characters in brawl are even more useless than the bad ones in melee.

Not true. The bottom tiers in brawl are used just as mid and low tiers. I also main all four of them. Melee's characters were very underused.

 

[Overclassed]

It shows how much more balance Melee has compared to Brawl. Brawl's top 4 was 1 Snake and 3 MK's. Mk himself is one of the main reasons Brawl is unbalanced..

No, it doesn't. It shows the best players at that tournament used Metaknight and Snake.

And you can argue forever with me about it, but you'll always be wrong. Even if MK is the best character, a character is nothing more than a tool. So he's a better tool. Fine, whatever.

You would never say the best bat in the world hit the most home runs.

 

[Skadorski]

Yup, love at as much as in the begining and I have played it for like 600 hours.
And I still can't find a main But yeah I still love it and I'm gonna love it until the next one.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Not only that, but half the characters are almost never used:

Yoshi, Kirby, Mewtwo, Pichu, Ness, Zelda...

...and all the high tier characters are overused:

Fox, Falco, Marth, Samus, Falcon...

Samus isn't even high tier, and yet like other scrubs who know nothing about the game you forget shiek, IC, Jiggs, Ganon, Doc, Luigi, DK, Mario and Peach. And what about we don't use our low tiers? What about people like KrazyKirbykid, Umbreonmow, Taj, Darkmusician, Fumi, Park, KDJ, Simna, Djnintendo, Warrior Knight, Arash, Kirbstir, King Kirby 90, Gimpyfish, Dire Vulcan, and Iori? All play Characters above exept for the bowser players. And can you list me some names of people who play Samus, Falcon, Lucas, Ness, Link, Ganon, PT, Mario, Yoshi, Jiggs, Ike, Zelda, and Bowser and actualy beat top tier players like ours do?

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

No, it doesn't. It shows the best players at that tournament used Metaknight and Snake.

And why do you suppose that is? Because Mk and Snake are the best tools considering they have nice advantages over most of the cast. This makes for some impossible matches where unlike in Melee, low tiers could still stand a chance against a High/Top tier. Put someone like Ganon against IC's and that makes for the most unbalanced match up where Ganon has 0 chance of winning.

 

[ETWIST51294]

And why do you suppose that is? Because Mk and Snake are the best tools considering they have nice advantages over most of the cast. This makes for some impossible matches where unlike in Melee, low tiers could still stand a chance against a High/Top tier. Put someone like Ganon against IC's and that makes for the most unbalanced match up where Ganon has 0 chance of winning.

the irony, Ganon ***** IC in melee and now the tables have turned.

 

[Firus]

...Okay, hands...who didn't see the Melee vs. Brawl coming?

Anyways...

Brawl's definitely faded for me...I fell in love with it before I even got it and played it non-stop for a month. Then I realized it sucked and didn't play it for months. I played it sparingly over a few months once codes were released and all (specifically the no tripping code, the first one to pique my interest) but dropped it for quite a while until the beginning of June when I got around to putting texture hacks on. I've played it pretty regularly since.

But I still dislike Brawl in its original form, I won't play it unless it's hacked because I simply don't enjoy it otherwise.

 

[ETWIST51294]

...Okay, hands...who didn't see the Melee vs. Brawl coming?

Anyways...

Brawl's definitely faded for me...I fell in love with it before I even got it and played it non-stop for a month. Then I realized it sucked and didn't play it for months. I played it sparingly over a few months once codes were released and all (specifically the no tripping code, the first one to pique my interest) but dropped it for quite a while until the beginning of June when I got around to putting texture hacks on. I've played it pretty regularly since.

But I still dislike Brawl in its original form, I won't play it unless it's hacked because I simply don't enjoy it otherwise.

I'm not making this a brawl vs melee thing lol. I never said melee was better than brawl, but that it is more balanced. I really getting annoyed of these scrubs who have never played melee before.

 

[Firus]

I'm not making this a brawl vs melee thing lol. I never said melee was better than brawl, but that it is more balanced. I really getting annoyed of these scrubs who have never played melee before.

I...didn't accuse anyone of anything, so you don't feel the need to defend yourself. I just happened to post after your post. I didn't even read your post before I posted mine.

I'm just saying there's a war going on about which game is more balanced. Which is, in essence, a Melee vs. Brawl.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I...didn't accuse anyone of anything, so you don't feel the need to defend yourself. I just happened to post after your post. I didn't even read your post before I posted mine.

I'm just saying there's a war going on about which game is more balanced. Which is, in essence, a Melee vs. Brawl.

I wasn't getting defensive, I was just saying what was going on. Srry for the missunderstanding.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

the irony, Ganon ***** IC in melee and now the tables have turned.

LOL

Karma's a *****.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yeah. Melee has like 13 almost-impossible matchups, Brawl has like..2. Yeah, it's true.

Wow you're not very smart.

tbh, the bad characters in brawl are even more useless than the bad ones in melee.

THANK YOU.

Not true. The bottom tiers in brawl are used just as mid and low tiers. I also main all four of them. Melee's characters were very underused.

Mid and Low tiers aren't used very much either. >_>

 

[mobilisq]

And can you list me some names of people who play Samus, Falcon, Lucas, Ness, Link, Ganon, PT, Mario, Yoshi, Jiggs, Ike, Zelda, and Bowser and actualy beat top tier players like ours do?

tudor, rebaz, APC or ninjalink, fow, izaw, kosk, reflex, boss, bigman AND bwett, bowyer, ryko, ninjalink or darkmusician, ninjalink?

something like that, sure

 

[Melomaniacal]

There are no impossible matchups in melee and if there are brawl has more. Your making yourself sound real stupid right now. Read my other post.

Well... Melee:
Sheikichu - 95:5
Sheik:Kirby - 95:5
Sheik:Bowser - 95:5
Foxichu - 95:5
Fox: Kirby - 95:5
Falco:Kirby - 95:5
Marth:Mewtwo - 95:5
Marth:Ness - 95:5
Marth:Yoshi - 95:5
Marth:Kirby - 95:5
Marthichu - 95:5
Jigglypuff:Yoshi - 95:5
Ice Climbersichu - 95:5

I could go on for awhile and list all the 90:10 match ups, but that will take up a lot of space (there are, like 30 90:10 match ups IIRC).

Brawl:
Ice Climbers:Ganondorf - 95:5
Sheik:Ganondorf - 95:5

Make of that what you will. Yes, I know that Brawl is still evolving and whatnot, but still.

(For the record, I'm kinda just playing devil's advocate right now. Personally I believe Melee is more balanced)

 

[Overclassed]

And why do you suppose that is? Because Mk and Snake are the best tools considering they have nice advantages over most of the cast. This makes for some impossible matches where unlike in Melee, low tiers could still stand a chance against a High/Top tier. Put someone like Ganon against IC's and that makes for the most unbalanced match up where Ganon has 0 chance of winning.

You'll notice that MK doesn't have advantages over most of the cast if you check his Matchups. He goes even or 45:55 (near even) with most, which is why he's such a bother. He doesn't get counterpicked.

And, you're right, Pichu definitely stood a much better chance against Fox than Ganon against he ICs.

I promise you that the first Melee tournaments in 2002 (a year after its release), and probably '03. and '04, had many of the same characters winning. In 2015, when Brawl has been out for 7 years, we'll make comparisons then.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Well considering Link, a low tier character, placed in the top 25 at Genesis (Melee) I don't see how Brawl is more balanced. The lowest tier chacter in Brawl to place in top 25 was Toon Link who is in the B tier.

Also, what impossible matchups are you reffering to in Brawl. I am only aware of one and that is IC's against Ganondorf.

Ganondorf's matchup with Sheik is also REALLY bad.

There are no impossible matchups in melee and if there are brawl has more. Your making yourself sound real stupid right now. Read my other post.

lol, i said ALMOST-impossible matchups. Learn to read.

Wow you're not very smart.

Is that all you have to say back? rofl

Well... Melee:
Sheikichu - 95:5
Sheik:Kirby - 95:5
Sheik:Bowser - 95:5
Foxichu - 95:5
Fox: Kirby - 95:5
Falco:Kirby - 95:5
Marth:Mewtwo - 95:5
Marth:Ness - 95:5
Marth:Yoshi - 95:5
Marth:Kirby - 95:5
Marthichu - 95:5
Jigglypuff:Yoshi - 95:5
Ice Climbersichu - 95:5

What this guy said.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

You'll notice that MK doesn't have advantages over most of the cast if you check his Matchups. He goes even or 45:55 (near even) with most, which is why he's such a bother. He doesn't get counterpicked.

Well looking at his matchups most of them are 55:45 and 60:40 (MK).

And, you're right, Pichu definitely stood a much better chance against Fox than Ganon against he ICs.

Fox vs Pichu is 95:5
IC's vs Ganon is 100:0 (At least that's what the Ganon boards say)

I promise you that the first Melee tournaments in 2002 (a year after its release), and probably '03. and '04, had many of the same characters winning. In 2015, when Brawl has been out for 7 years, we'll make comparisons then.

You have a point. Guess we'll just have to see how the metagame advances in couple of years to really determine which game is more balanced. Besides we're way off topic.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Tudor hasn't had a real tourny match againtst a high tier in 7 month and the high tier player was horrible, Rebaz plays friendlies all day he can't beat someone playing a high tier in a tourny, I saw apc getting ***** by a high tier and switched to MK, Ninja link only does really good in tournys when he plays high tiers (ROB Diddy), and the fact is I watched all of these guys and seen none of them beating a high tier in a tourny.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Metaknight's match up are similar to Melee Sheik's match ups... just... Sheik's are better.

Before anyone takes that the wrong way, let me just say that I believe match ups work a bit differently in Melee and Brawl. I can't really explain it well, but just by the nature of the games... like, it's a little more cut-and-dry with Brawl. There are just less factors. Basically what I'm saying is that a 95:5 match up in Melee is not as bad as a 95:5 match up in Brawl.

Okay, wow. This thread went way off-topic. I'm sorry, haha. I'm done xD

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Metaknight's match up are similar to Melee Sheik's match ups... just... Sheik's are better.

Before anyone takes that the wrong way, let me just say that I believe match ups work a bit differently in Melee and Brawl. I can't really explain it well, but just by the nature of the games... like, it's a little more cut-and-dry with Brawl. There are just less factors. Basically what I'm saying is that a 95:5 match up in Melee is not as bad as a 95:5 match up in Brawl.

I understand what you're saying. Bad match-ups in Melee don't seem to be as punishing then Brawl.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Metaknight's match up are similar to Melee Sheik's match ups... just... Sheik's are better.

Before anyone takes that the wrong way, let me just say that I believe match ups work a bit differently in Melee and Brawl. I can't really explain it well, but just by the nature of the games... like, it's a little more cut-and-dry with Brawl. There are just less factors. Basically what I'm saying is that a 95:5 match up in Melee is not as bad as a 95:5 match up in Brawl.

But shiek has bad match ups, she has bas match ups against Fox and Falco. Also shieks haven't been doing good in tournys for about 3 or 4 years now.

 

[Melomaniacal]

But shiek has bad match ups, she has bas match ups against Fox and Falco. Also shieks haven't been doing good in tournys for about 3 or 4 years now.

45:55 against Fox, 50:50 (or was it 40:60?) against Falco. I guess it's debatable, but they are not strong counters by any means. Very similar to Diddy or Snake against Metaknight. Maybe a slight advantage, but not a strong counter.

Okay, I'm done for real this time

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Yeah we should really get back on topic.

On topic (For once) Brawl still has it's allure and **** even Melee and Smash 64 do. The gameplay never gets old to me. That's why Smash Bros. is my favorite series of all time.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yeah we should really get back on topic.

On topic (For once) Brawl still has it's allure and **** even Melee and Smash 64 do. The gameplay never gets old to me. That's why Smash Bros. is my favorite series of all time.

Tru that. I'll get back on track too. I like brawl in all, but its boring for competitive play. I like it in casual play though, its fun in casual play. So I guess it didn't lose its allure on me.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Is that all you have to say back? rofl

Would you prefer I expand on that?

MK and Snake win 50.57% of tournaments.

Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Melee unfortunately doesn't have a thread like that, but I'd bet money that at least 4 characters in Melee make up that same percentage.

Mango won Genesis and many other tournaments with Puff, who is 7th on the Final Melee Tier List. The character that's 7th on the Brawl tier list, Marth, has NEVER one a tournament that big.

Your move.

 

[Hydra.]

Also, what impossible matchups are you reffering to in Brawl. I am only aware of one and that is IC's against Ganondorf.

Fox vs Pikachu, Fox vs. Shiek. If they know how to do the grabs correctly. Even without the grabs with Pikachu, Pikachu's matchup ratio is still killer for fox. And I don't think I am using Fox against IC's anytime soon, 25.75 Matchup.... How's that for balanced? If I get grabbed I die. There's no way you can argue brawl is balanced at all.. and lol people jumped your *** about the post you used to try and go against me. xD

 

[Hydra.]

But shiek has bad match ups, she has bas match ups against Fox and Falco. Also shieks haven't been doing good in tournys for about 3 or 4 years now.

..... 0.0

Fox a bad matchup for Shiek? LOL!!!!!!!

If you picked Fox against Shiek you are mentally ********.

If the Sheik had a brain they would win that matchup guarenteed.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think he means in Melee, judging from the 3 or 4 years thing.

 

[Tudor]

Tudor hasn't had a real tourny match againtst a high tier in 7 month and the high tier player was horrible, Rebaz plays friendlies all day he can't beat someone playing a high tier in a tourny, I saw apc getting ***** by a high tier and switched to MK, Ninja link only does really good in tournys when he plays high tiers (ROB Diddy), and the fact is I watched all of these guys and seen none of them beating a high tier in a tourny.

Hold on a sec.... i went to evo and placed 25th after getting DQ'ed a match due to a physics test i was taking. I don't wanna name drop or talk about myself so how about you ask anyone that went to evo and played me or watched me play.

 

[ETWIST51294]

..... 0.0

Fox a bad matchup for Shiek? LOL!!!!!!!

If you picked Fox against Shiek you are mentally ********.

If the Sheik had a brain they would win that matchup guarenteed.

It actually is a bad match up. Look at the match up chart. Fox easily combos shiek, its easy to wave shine her, up throw up air is more effective(spelling?), and sheik can't do her automatic combos until fox is at about 40%. the only thing shiek has is her tech chase.

 

[Hydra.]

I think he means in Melee, judging from the 3 or 4 years thing.

Woops lol... I read right over that. xD

I just pwn'd myself.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Would you prefer I expand on that?

MK and Snake win 50.57% of tournaments.

Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Melee unfortunately doesn't have a thread like that, but I'd bet money that at least 4 characters in Melee make up that same percentage.

Mango won Genesis and many other tournaments with Puff, who is 7th on the Final Melee Tier List. The character that's 7th on the Brawl tier list, Marth, has NEVER one a tournament that big.

Your move.

Lol. Like this thread says, Brawl has been out for over a year. Melee has been out for 7 years. Much can happen in Brawl history in those years, Ganondorf in middle tier in the last tier list of Brawl maybe? (Okay, that's not going to happen, but i hope you get what i mean.) Anyways, back to the real subject of this thread. Brawl is most likely dead for me now, Melee lasted much longer for me. Only reason why i still even boot up Brawl anymore is because of hacking.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Hold on a sec.... i went to evo and placed 25th after getting DQ'ed a match due to a physics test i was taking. I don't wanna name drop or talk about myself so how about you ask anyone that went to evo and played me or watched me play.

Thats because your too f****** good.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Lol. Like this thread says, Brawl has been out for over a year. Melee has been out for 7 years. Much can happen in Brawl history in those years, Ganondorf in middle tier in the last tier list of Brawl maybe? (Okay, that's not going to happen, but i hope you get what i mean.) Anyways, back to the real subject of this thread. Brawl is most likely dead for me now, Melee lasted much longer for me. Only reason why i still even boot up Brawl anymore is because of hacking.

That's a pretty weak defense...

Brawl really isn't very deep... I mean I see what you mean, but since Brawl is so different than Melee, and a lot less deep, I'd be surprised if the Brawl tier list in 7 years was drastically different. The main character I see moving up is IC's.

 

[mobilisq]

what makes one game "deeper" than another

it isnt the size its what you do with it

 

[Tudor]

Thats because your too f****** good.

Uhh no i'm not. But i'm not crappy.

 

[Overclassed]

what makes one game "deeper" than another

it isnt the size its what you do with it

The number of Pros who say it's deep.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Uhh no i'm not. But i'm not crappy.

Making top 25 with samus is too good to me.