Mecakoto
Smash Journeyman
On the Glide Tossing issue:
Before we begin, there are 4 main ways to Glide Toss. Here is a key so you know exactly what I'm talking about, because, looking at the past 2 pages, what I've said has been misinterpreted.
Key:
1) DI: Directional Input. Determines if you Roll (and in which direction), Side-Step, or Jump if you have a shield out at the time. It also determines the former 2 if you input this before you press a shield button. I know all of you know this already, but I must clarify. I also know that the term "DI" means "Directional Influence," but for ease of understanding, treat it Directional Input for this post.
2) S: Shield. You activate your shield by pressing the button to which you have it logged.
3) TA: Throwing with A. You throw using the A button.
4) TC: Throwing with the C-Stick. You thow using the C-Stick.
Method 1: DI -> S -> TA
Method 2: DI -> S -> TC
Method 3: S -> DI -> TA
Method 4: S -> DI -> TC
Now that that is done, let's begin.
I decided not to test anyone and everyone who can glide toss because that would have been counter-productive. I just tested those who mostly use it. (Peach, Diddy, and ZSS) After trying the entire buffer range, I found the following to be constants:
1) Glide Tossing itself has a far stricter timing to get any decent slide out of it. Other then that, the timing is roughly the same. In other words, the window for a proper glide toss is now significantly smaller.
2) Roughly 5% of any Glide Tosses done using both Methods 1 & 2 succeeded in actually Glide Tossing.
3) Roughly 70% of any Glide Tosses done using both Methods 3 & 4 succeeded in actually Glide Tossing.
4) Glide Tossing Up is the most consistent, followed by Glide Tossing Down. Glide Tossing in the direction you're facing and Glide Tossing backwards both have a relatively same consistency and are tied for third.
5) Glide Tossing while rolling backwards is less consistent then Glide Tossing while rolling forward. Glide Tossing backwards also yields slightly less distance then it used to.
6) From what I can tell, throwing with the C-Stick and Throwing with the Attack Button provide no difference what-so-ever.
7) If you want consistency, you need to wait about 4 extra frames for your shield to pop up. From then on, it becomes your error when glide tossing during the roll. Still, for consistency, you have to slightly slow down your gameplay. 4 frames isn't much, but it could be the difference between resetting the current situation of the match and being put in a bad position.
From this, I can conclude that the ones effected by this are the ones that use Methods 1 or 2 to glide toss. Those who used Methods 3 or 4 are unaffected. I ask anyone who says they aren't having trouble if they are using Methods 3 or 4. I also ask those who are if they are using methods 1 or 2. I use method 2, thus my trouble.
NOTE: Before you say anything (if you do) or test which method you use (if you do), please don't think about doing it. Just do it and AFTER you've done it, analyze how you did it. We don't want false positives in this.
I also have an idea of the code responsible. It might be the code responsible for the "shield while dashing" feature. I have no idea how to change the code, or remove it, so I have a favor to ask:
Could someone who is having trouble Glide Tossing remove the code and see if it makes a difference? Or could someone tell me how to remove the code myself so I could see myself? Please and thank you.
The reason I think the above code may be the reason people using Methods 1 & 2 are having trouble is this: while testing, I saw the dash animation begin for a frame. It was then cut off by the shield. I then threw whatever item I was testing at the time out of the shield.
Disclaimer: This is my interpretation of the data that I've found. I'll stand by my results, but I am human. I may have misinterpreted something I saw as something else. That being said, if others' tests come back with different results, I shall test those results to check for differences. If the different results come back to be positive, I'll re-test my results with the different view provided by the others' tests and report back what I've found.
For those who want to post tl;dr:
Read the key and 4 methods. Read the 7 seemingly constant points. Read at least the 4th and 3rd to last paragraphs. Read the Disclaimer.
Before we begin, there are 4 main ways to Glide Toss. Here is a key so you know exactly what I'm talking about, because, looking at the past 2 pages, what I've said has been misinterpreted.
Key:
1) DI: Directional Input. Determines if you Roll (and in which direction), Side-Step, or Jump if you have a shield out at the time. It also determines the former 2 if you input this before you press a shield button. I know all of you know this already, but I must clarify. I also know that the term "DI" means "Directional Influence," but for ease of understanding, treat it Directional Input for this post.
2) S: Shield. You activate your shield by pressing the button to which you have it logged.
3) TA: Throwing with A. You throw using the A button.
4) TC: Throwing with the C-Stick. You thow using the C-Stick.
Method 1: DI -> S -> TA
Method 2: DI -> S -> TC
Method 3: S -> DI -> TA
Method 4: S -> DI -> TC
Now that that is done, let's begin.
I decided not to test anyone and everyone who can glide toss because that would have been counter-productive. I just tested those who mostly use it. (Peach, Diddy, and ZSS) After trying the entire buffer range, I found the following to be constants:
1) Glide Tossing itself has a far stricter timing to get any decent slide out of it. Other then that, the timing is roughly the same. In other words, the window for a proper glide toss is now significantly smaller.
2) Roughly 5% of any Glide Tosses done using both Methods 1 & 2 succeeded in actually Glide Tossing.
3) Roughly 70% of any Glide Tosses done using both Methods 3 & 4 succeeded in actually Glide Tossing.
4) Glide Tossing Up is the most consistent, followed by Glide Tossing Down. Glide Tossing in the direction you're facing and Glide Tossing backwards both have a relatively same consistency and are tied for third.
5) Glide Tossing while rolling backwards is less consistent then Glide Tossing while rolling forward. Glide Tossing backwards also yields slightly less distance then it used to.
6) From what I can tell, throwing with the C-Stick and Throwing with the Attack Button provide no difference what-so-ever.
7) If you want consistency, you need to wait about 4 extra frames for your shield to pop up. From then on, it becomes your error when glide tossing during the roll. Still, for consistency, you have to slightly slow down your gameplay. 4 frames isn't much, but it could be the difference between resetting the current situation of the match and being put in a bad position.
From this, I can conclude that the ones effected by this are the ones that use Methods 1 or 2 to glide toss. Those who used Methods 3 or 4 are unaffected. I ask anyone who says they aren't having trouble if they are using Methods 3 or 4. I also ask those who are if they are using methods 1 or 2. I use method 2, thus my trouble.
NOTE: Before you say anything (if you do) or test which method you use (if you do), please don't think about doing it. Just do it and AFTER you've done it, analyze how you did it. We don't want false positives in this.
I also have an idea of the code responsible. It might be the code responsible for the "shield while dashing" feature. I have no idea how to change the code, or remove it, so I have a favor to ask:
Could someone who is having trouble Glide Tossing remove the code and see if it makes a difference? Or could someone tell me how to remove the code myself so I could see myself? Please and thank you.
The reason I think the above code may be the reason people using Methods 1 & 2 are having trouble is this: while testing, I saw the dash animation begin for a frame. It was then cut off by the shield. I then threw whatever item I was testing at the time out of the shield.
Disclaimer: This is my interpretation of the data that I've found. I'll stand by my results, but I am human. I may have misinterpreted something I saw as something else. That being said, if others' tests come back with different results, I shall test those results to check for differences. If the different results come back to be positive, I'll re-test my results with the different view provided by the others' tests and report back what I've found.
For those who want to post tl;dr:
Read the key and 4 methods. Read the 7 seemingly constant points. Read at least the 4th and 3rd to last paragraphs. Read the Disclaimer.
