Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[Revven]

I'm pretty sure that Peach and Ivy have solid combos/tech-chase combos as well. Ivysaur Dair>Uair>UpB = sex

I didn't say that they didn't have combos, I just said that if you still have the option to hit and run with your character that it's likely going to be safer to play that way in order to win the match/tournament (which is where the match-up took place, a tournament).

Friendlies obv you would try to get combos because they're friendlies.

 

[Alphatron]

I'll probably get around to it later...

Well here is the link if you have not done so already. Remember to rename it to st_custom#.rel

http://www.mediafire.com/?1omndmmwxjm

 

[JCaesar]

Pound 4 Brawl+ thread

 

[HeroFalcon7]

The problem is that you reside on the west coast. Most B+ players that I know of reside either on the east coast or in Canada. The furthest west I know of that has people playing B+ regularly is Las Vegas with RPGs, FOW, and SK92.

I don't know anyone who plays B+ in cali, sorry.

Hoping this changes as time progresses. Its about 5 of us here in Riverside, CA that play Brawl +. In fact we are really looking forward to Project M (Melee 2.0) if it actually launches successfully. Well if any Brawl + players are intrested in the Socal area feel free to hit me up either here or on AIM.

 

[V-K]

Hey guys I have a question.

Since Brawl+ is basically most advanced in the US version would it be possible to use the NTSC Brawl ISO and run it with Brawl+ codes?
That would be a lot easier for PAL players than porting every single code into PAL which takes years because we don´t have enough people.

 

[GHNeko]

Yes. I play B+ through a USB loader lol.

If you can play it on the console, and you have an SD card, you can play B+.

You can also play NTSC Brawl on a PAL console with the right homebrew app and settings.

 

[V-K]

Yes. I play B+ through a USB loader lol.

If you can play it on the console, and you have an SD card, you can play B+.

You can also play NTSC Brawl on a PAL console with the right homebrew app and settings.

Sweet, can you tell me which apps I need to run it? Just the basic USB loader? And what do I have to configure?

 

[GHNeko]

That should help. If you have any problems, let me know.

 

[V-K]

That should help. If you have any problems, let me know.

Alright thx Ill try it tomorrow.
I PM you back if I need help.

 

[kyubikirby]

Hoping this changes as time progresses. Its about 5 of us here in Riverside, CA that play Brawl +. In fact we are really looking forward to Project M (Melee 2.0) if it actually launches successfully. Well if any Brawl + players are intrested in the Socal area feel free to hit me up either here or on AIM.

There's me and a couple others here in San Diego that play it, and I know I'm always wanting to play new people, since I'm limited as of recently to only playing one person.and even he hasn't really been playing it much. I lack transportation at the moment, so I cant really get anywhere D: Contact me either on here or youtube (same name) and see what we can do...

I also want it spread around socal more...

 

[Isatis]

Gonna move the Sonic stuff here...

 

[MK26]

since there seems to be no better place to put this:

re: governance of the brawl+ project:
























cool story bro

Spoiler

<3 veril for the shoutout to the stage hackers

 

[Veril]

The new DDD .pac is up. Here are the changes:

1. Bair aerial effective iasa from 33 to 36.
2. Bair does 2 less damage.
3. Bair range adjusted to fit animation.
4. Dair damage 8 total from 17 total.
5. F-smash sourspot tripbox buff (ie Quake Hammer) removed.

These changes were made with the input from several notable DDD players (including Glick) and nearly unanimous votes in support the change. Bair had the quality of being an entire aerial moveset's worth of capabilities in a single move. It is still an extremely good move, but it is no longer absurdly safe on block, its ability to create a wall of double bairs is also removed. A perfect bair wall is next to impossible for some characters to break, making it spammable to the point of being unacceptable. SH double bair is now impossible by 1 frame. SH bair to double jump is still possible, so you can still SH bair and DJ bair despite the iasa change.

Plum on the bair: "The move is insanely disjointed... The hitbox extends WELL beyond the reach of his foot, so it might solve the issue altogether by just having it match the animation much better. It would also force DDD's to use Fair into their game more; its a highly disjointed move but its overshadowed by Bair's speed and lingering hitbox and equally effective hitbox. Giving you the decision of either speed (Bair is frame 6) or a big disjointed hitbox might be a good thing for DDD because his gameplay is largely centralized around 'Bair until I can grab or Dair. Mix in some tilts and waddles. Profit from living forever and killing and gimping early.'"


Dair's damage output, ability to combo and be spammed with the multiple jumps were deemed a significant enough issue to warrant immediate action as well. The f-smash was essentially a relic; a sloppy buff that makes little sense from a strategic/balancing standpoint.

VanZ on the f-smash: "And that Fsmash? LOL. it was a nice idea, but it gives him too much. there's a reason it's so slow. That move has ******** power. and that's the way it should stay. should Dedede land that Fsmash, he deserves the reward. but he shouldn't be supplemented for missing. This tips the balance of risk:reward and IMO, should be undone."

Plum: "A lot of the changes to DDD happened because people thought he was so bad in B+... Basically the loss of his CG overshadowed everything else he can do. As a DDD player I was fine with him getting some new stuff to use, but even I'll admit that he didn't need buffs. People put him up as a potential worst character in B+ several sets ago (along with characters like Bowser and Sonic at he time), so the former WBR gave him some **** good buffs, like the no KGB Dair, improved Uair, larger hitbox on Nair, improved Uthrow and Fthrow."

 

[DaiAndOh]

Holy crap.

Good balancing decisions with reasoning from top players and input is made available to the public.

I hope I can see more of this!

The change that surprises me most is dair, I remember Glick telling me that you could di out of multiple ones but I ain't complaining.

 

[GoldenHeartNeko]

Bawwww. I actually liked the Fsmash sourpot, and I don't even use D3. Even in friendlies. Hahahaha.

It was fun to get around.

 

[CT Chia]

Was there any input from those players (Glick, Vanz, etc) on his utilt? I personally found it to shield stab waaaay too easily (almost all the time lol) for a good fast kill move that combos out of multiple aerials like nair.

If the hitbox was just adjusted to more fit the move like you did for bair I think that will be appropriate.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

The new DDD .pac is up. Here are the changes:

1. Bair aerial effective iasa from 33 to 36.
2. Bair does 2 less damage.
3. Bair range adjusted to fit animation.
4. Dair damage 8 total from 17 total.
5. F-smash sourspot tripbox removed.

These changes were made with the input from several notable DDD players (including Glick) and nearly unanimous votes in support the change. Bair had the quality of being an entire aerial moveset's worth of capabilities in a single move. It is still an extremely good move, but it is no longer absurdly safe on block, its ability to create a wall of double bairs is also removed. A perfect bair wall is next to impossible for some characters to break, making it spammable to the point of being unacceptable. SH double bair is now impossible by 1 frame. SH bair to double jump is still possible, so you can still SH bair and DJ bair despite the iasa change.

Plum on the bair: "The move is insanely disjointed... The hitbox extends WELL beyond the reach of his foot, so it might solve the issue altogether by just having it match the animation much better. It would also force DDD's to use Fair into their game more; its a highly disjointed move but its overshadowed by Bair's speed and lingering hitbox and equally effective hitbox. Giving you the decision of either speed (Bair is frame 6) or a big disjointed hitbox might be a good thing for DDD because his gameplay is largely centralized around 'Bair until I can grab or Dair. Mix in some tilts and waddles. Profit from living forever and killing and gimping early.'"


Dair's damage output, ability to combo and be spammed with the multiple jumps were deemed a significant enough issue to warrant immediate action as well. The f-smash was essentially a relic; a sloppy buff that makes little sense from a strategic/balancing standpoint.

VanZ on the f-smash: "And that Fsmash? LOL. it was a nice idea, but it gives him too much. there's a reason it's so slow. That move has ******** power. and that's the way it should stay. should Dedede land that Fsmash, he deserves the reward. but he shouldn't be supplemented for missing. This tips the balance of risk:reward and IMO, should be undone."

Plum: "A lot of the changes to DDD happened because people thought he was so bad in B+... Basically the loss of his CG overshadowed everything else he can do. As a DDD player I was fine with him getting some new stuff to use, but even I'll admit that he didn't need buffs. People put him up as a potential worst character in B+ several sets ago (along with characters like Bowser and Sonic at he time), so the former WBR gave him some **** good buffs, like the no KGB Dair, improved Uair, larger hitbox on Nair, improved Uthrow and Fthrow."

as much as it pains me to read it, i have to agree with the decisions made here. i'm glad that you guys are being real about the changes that need to be done. i will miss the trip box, especially since I used it so much with my dthrow and waddle dee mixups. Ah well.

if its possible I'd like to see DDD able to reverse B his waddle dees, just to give him more control over his waddle dee game. I like to waddle dee juggle. lots of fun.

 

[Veril]

Was there any input from those players (Glick, Vanz, etc) on his utilt? I personally found it to shield stab waaaay too easily (almost all the time lol) for a good fast kill move that combos out of multiple aerials like nair.

If the hitbox was just adjusted to more fit the move like you did for bair I think that will be appropriate.

Up-tilt is very good, but it isn't polarizing in the way bair and dair are, nor is it the result of a fairly arbitrary buff like f-smash was. Those were the only moves seriously discussed. I really wanted to only make the nerfs that were clearly needed to deal with the core problems, weakening DDD further is undesirable. DDD still has a ton going for him, and I hope that DDD mains stick with him despite the changes.

I know a lot of players who were really put off by the necessary but unpleasant period of rapid change. That period is over. I am committed to a much more restrained approach than has been taken in the past.

as much as it pains me to read it, i have to agree with the decisions made here. i'm glad that you guys are being real about the changes that need to be done.

if its possible I'd like to see DDD able to reverse B his waddle dees

This is the response I was hoping to see. I'm glad you understand. What do you mean about the reversing? It is possible to b-reverse waddle Dees.

Good balancing decisions with reasoning from top players and input is made available to the public.

I hope I can see more of this!

Unfortunately I believe you may see a bit more of this. I really want to avoid any significant character changes, especially nerfs. One thing that you should expect to see changed soon is the bomb to fair loop combo that Samus has. Because of the bombs pre and post hit iasa frames (the result of changes mostly rather than its original brawl qualities), there is a near-universal looping autocombo that can carry an opponent into a killing dair and/or wrack up unbelievable damage. The potential fix will likely involve the bomb SDIability and/or iasa frames, as this is the most direct and least obtrusive way to deal with the issue.


There are a few minor changes in the works as well, which I will keep everyone posted on as consensus is reached.


EDIT: so I realized that the term near-universal looping autocombo may confuse most people.
near-universal = affects the entire cast, some moreso than others but all to a degree.
looping = repeats itself
autocombo = largely inescapable regardless of DI, works across a wide % range.

generally these are too **** to exist.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

So is the f-smash's hammer's handle causing tripping gone, or is the quake hammer gone? From the way it's stated, it seems like the former, but from what others are saying, it seems like they think it's the latter case.

 

[Veril]

The quake hammer is what was removed. Sorry for any confusion. OP modified for clarity.

 

[Shadic]

EDIT: so I realized that the term near-universal looping autocombo may confuse most people.
near-universal = affects the entire cast, some moreso than others but all to a degree.
looping = repeats itself
autocombo = largely inescapable regardless of DI, works across a wide % range.
generally these are too **** to exist.

So, 5.0 Ness Fair would be a near-universal looping autocombo?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

This is the response I was hoping to see. I'm glad you understand. What do you mean about the reversing? It is possible to b-reverse waddle Dees.

I mean the retoss of the waddle dees. I was wondering what people thought about being able to b-reverse that.

 

[[TSON]]

Aw, man. Quake hammer was amazing. I do agree with the other changes, though.

 

[Veril]

So, 5.0 Ness Fair would be a near-universal looping autocombo?

Yes that is actually a very good example... Pikachu's d-throw CG back from before we knew how to modify throws was another really awful one. "shudders"

 

[Alphatron]

Well, I will miss the dair damage and the bair disjoint(can't bair throught ROB's gyro anymore). But I get why they were done. Hopefully, like with Kirby's bair it will still remain a very good move.

 

[GreatFalco]

I was really hoping for these DDD changes. I just couldn't understand why a character so heavy, with so many jumps had to be buffed in his f-smash, while keeping those great aerials. Multijump mixed with that holy bair brick and his high fast falling speed was a pain.

Seriously, you made my day.

Also, when will this pac be download-able?

 

[Alphatron]

Use the autoupdater.

 

[Daakun]

Drat. Now Dedede isn't instalulz in ffa. >_>

 

[Alphatron]

I personally hid the pac away on my computer for novelty whenever I wanted to screw around with my friends.

 

[Pete278]

That should help. If you have any problems, let me know.

Think you could pm me that info too? I use the current PAL version atm, and it'd be soo much nicer to be able to play 6.0.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

Well, DDD will still be one of my favorites. But I think personally dair only doing 8% is kinda much, that means 2 dairs wont even match up to 1 old dair. Perfectly understandable though, just something like 10% would have seemed more reasonable since I still don't think DDD was as unstoppable as some of you claimed. It seemed like such a snap decision to since I never heard complains about him up until this week. Anyways maybe my DI is bad (I dont think so) but I cannot escape Pika's dthrow into basically anything the player wants to do. If you DI one way usmash is pretty much guaranteed and if you DI the other way an uair or bair is pretty much going to hit you. Maybe I was having a bad day idk but I seriously couldn't escape getting hit no matter what. Maybe it's because I was using Falcon or something, but the reason I mention it is because you guys "fixed" everyone's dthrow but is seems Pika's was left alone. It just seemed a little to overwhelming. I think some more characters need some adjusting as well.

 

[Wind Owl]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but can anyone point me to a list of changes that encompasses all releases? As far as I can tell, the changelist on the official site only covers changes from the previous version.

 

[CT Chia]

Wind Owl!? @_@

lol

but yea theres no changelist

 

[Bandit]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but can anyone point me to a list of changes that encompasses all releases? As far as I can tell, the changelist on the official site only covers changes from the previous version.

There is a massive effort going on to get the changelist out from vBrawl to 6.0. It'll be out soon enough but it just takes time.

It's like after a tournament asking the TO the next day "where are the videos?"

:bandit:

 

[Shadic]

There should be changelists in every official release thread, if that helps?

 

[K.Mac]

Sweet, can you tell me which apps I need to run it? Just the basic USB loader? And what do I have to configure?

I'm probably out of line on this but I want to mention; if you have problems, make sure that the USB loader has a hook and ocarina enabled. As a fellow PAL Wii user I have to use Neogamma to boot the game and it doesn't load the SD card codes unless a hook is enabled and ocarina is enabled. Personally I use GC pad as the hook and it works, and I'm not sure whether others work (or even if you have to enable them) but if you can't get it to load normally, try that.

Hope I help if that's the case.


Anyway, I saw the note of DDD being "nerfed" and though I know it's against thread rules to discuss characters as such, I give it a plus. As D3 is a secondary on B+ for me I understand the changes; plenty of people I've played on B+ have expressed frustration about the Fsmash quake, although initially I thought it was a brilliant addition.

Ultimately I need to actually get my butt off my chair and download this to give it a shot, but regardless kudos to everyone involved for improving an already amazing game. Need to see the changes you guys have made.

Also I noticed that there's a mention of "visual" changes, does that mean you've fiddled with more visual things besides the shields? o_O

 

[The Sex Puma]

Would the ddd update have happened anyway if Vex didn't molest Hackfest?

 

[K.Mac]

^ ninja'd me. I cannot edit.

Question: Is there supposed to be no common5.pac in the latest build?

I just downloaded the windows autoupdater and downloaded the snapshot loader version. I didn't see it download common5.pac nor did I see it download anything for PTAD, Skyworld or Luigi's Mansion - which I expected, since you guys have changed those stages. Unless the stages have been changed in the code itself, I'm wondering if something's wrong.

Also, the name of the snapshot is al_5-0.bin. Is that correct? I assumed that it would be 6-0 or something similar.

 

[GP&B]

People (like me) have been getting freezes with common5.pac. It hasn't been happening to everyone, but it's common enough to be a problem.

 

[Andarel]

Well, DDD will still be one of my favorites. But I think personally dair only doing 8% is kinda much, that means 2 dairs wont even match up to 1 old dair. Perfectly understandable though, just something like 10% would have seemed more reasonable since I still don't think DDD was as unstoppable as some of you claimed. It seemed like such a snap decision to since I never heard complains about him up until this week. Anyways maybe my DI is bad (I dont think so) but I cannot escape Pika's dthrow into basically anything the player wants to do. If you DI one way usmash is pretty much guaranteed and if you DI the other way an uair or bair is pretty much going to hit you. Maybe I was having a bad day idk but I seriously couldn't escape getting hit no matter what. Maybe it's because I was using Falcon or something, but the reason I mention it is because you guys "fixed" everyone's dthrow but is seems Pika's was left alone. It just seemed a little to overwhelming. I think some more characters need some adjusting as well.

Pika's dthrow was changed, and at this point it is balanced - while it has followups (what percent were you at, that's important), it loses dthrow -> nair at high % for an easy kill, and same with usmash if DIed correctly. It also lost all its old chaingrabbing capabilities.

Long story short, it's fine. If you take a bair after getting dthrown...DI and break the combo after bair. At low % that is. And be glad it's not chaingrabbing you <_<

DDD had moderate complaining for a while, as people sunk more time into him and realized that he was still great even with the loss of his chaingrab. Remember, he did get several major buffs: improved throws, followups on dair for a much longer time (no KBG), better uair, to name a few. And unfortunately, dair hits in this loop: 3% x5, 2% (or something along those lines), which was reduced to 1% x5, 3%. While no KBG gives more leeway in editing damage, the linking hits can only be modified in groups of 5%, and 12% was still too much.