Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[the grim lizard]

I think I knew about them before really "knowing" about them. L-cancel, WD, and DD are the ones I didn't learn about until coming here.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I think that everyone on SWF wants great techniques such as L-cancel to stay, but I believe that we could be in for much more.

Techniques like Shuffl are examples of techniques that derive from commonly used techniques.Just as the JC grab is created from a physics exploit(When you jump, it puts you in a stand still animation,during that time when grounded, you can grab.).I think that depending on how many minor techniques are implemented in the game, the more advanced techniques can be created.

Essentially, advanced techniques are actually very easy techniques just strung together in quick succession.

What I expect? Probabaly alot of things from Melee, and even more.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

"people, this is clearly a joke account. there is no way someone can be this stupid. just ignore it"

Does making posts like this make you feel as though you've accomplished something?

Anywho.

Why would it?

So here are the basic arguments:

1. We don't need wavedashing, but it helps us.

I still stand by my point, if pros don't this advanced technique, to hell with it. It looks stupid, it's too difficult for beginners to get used too, isn't balanced among the different characters, and ruins my controller!

Even though the Wavedash isn't a complete neccesity, it is still implemented in our game because it is very useful.

Despite how is looks, it's more deep than you may think. Hey, Peach's Turnips look stupid seeing as you can pull them out of any surface, but that doesn't mean that they aren't useful in a wide plethora of ways.

Difficulty isn't the problem here, it's your patience and your ability to adapt to a button combination.It isn't actually hard at all, you just believe it's hard because you are being lazy, and you don't want to look beyond your limitations.

Even still, the advanced techniques were created for those who have mastered the basics of smash bros. and not intended for begginers... but in theory,begginers may actually be able to find the technique more simple. Why? Because the game can be introduced in a diffirent fassion. Most of the people who find the technique difficult are those who don't want to take the plunge, but rather complain about how they can't do it because they don't practice.

Everything cannot be mastered instantaneously. Your arguments are invalid.

2. Wavedashing was found by the developers before hand but was left in.

I honestly believe they couldn't have anticipated the impact this technique had on the gameplay, which is why it's still in the game.

You know what's funny? Multimple versions of Smash Bros. was created, and during that time they could have easily taken the technique out.But it would actually destroy the games physics by removing the traction in the game.A character without traction could be absolutely demolished by Fox with no traction shines.

But hey,anything is better than the Wavedash M I RITE?

3. Wave dashing is in the game, whether or not it was intentional or not is not important.

I refuse to believe that wave dashing is intended because of how poorly it was implemented. Some characters that clearly do not need it (Marth) have incredibly good wave dashing, vs. characters that could benefit from it (Zelda).
second of all, there are all kinds of little glitches in this game which pros thrive upon. the laziness of the developers of melee proved to be another flaw of the games, anyone can pick up marth or sheik and totally **** anyone in 'low tiers'. Also, another culprit is the edge hogging problem. When one is holding onto the edge, and hits L or R, they roll off. Anyone who is unlucky enough to attempt to recover during this time will plummet to their death. This will most likely be fixed in brawl because of how ridiculous it is. It's in melee, pros use it to their advantage. And, with a little hope that the game testers are doing their job, it will be no more.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You're such an idiot.

Have you ever even to a tournament with professional players? You think that you can win just by abusing specific techniques? Well you need to take your head out your *** and listen to yourself.

When you enter a professional tournament, it's obvious that everyone knows the afromentioned techniques, so it isn't about that, it's about intelligent play. Take for example: I played Drephen at OC3 and got ***** badly even though his play style appeared to be simplistic. It's wasn't because of his technical use, it was because he was smart and had knowledge on the specific match up he was playing.

My Marth also got beat by KrazyKirbyKid at OC3.

Using a technique in battle cannot replace experiance and knowledge when playing on a professional level.

Your other little quarrel on techniques that can cause your opponent to lose is also stupid.If you're coming to the edge don't try to be so stupid and come with a variety of diffirent approaches. If you're doing the same thing over and over again you will be punished for it. You have to think when you are playing insted of going for a pattern that your opponent can obviously see through. It's not that you can't make it, you;re just not thinking.

and other stupid little glitches in the game that 'pros' thrive on. no matter how you look at it, the best player will be able to utilize every little broken feature that gives every little bit of advantage to its full effect.


conclusion~in the end i hope the development team does their best to select which 'glitches' to keep and which to remove. personally i find WDing stupid, it ruins the feel of the game.

then again, it could still be in, but 'fixed' some how. in some of the movies, you can clearly see characters like meta knight 'dashing' behind their enemies (another character does this, forget who). perhaps it will be nicely moderated to prevent abuse of it.

the point of brawl is to provide a new experience. if all we worry about is how similar it is going to be compared to melee, then we are just going to be very unhappy with it with the direction its going.. (not that i mind )

Because you find it stupid doesn't mean that we should have to put up with your crap. I can't understand why all of these noobs want to tarnish tournament play just because they don't like it and cannot accept that there are more competative and universal people.

Us as professional players do not with to destroy the way you play, so why must you mess with the way we play? If you don't like the competative community, then why do you bother coming here? It's completely ratarted at how some people can actually have the ordasity to complain over something that has no direct effect towards them. Why don't you just leave the techniques to use elitist and you can be content with the way you play, which is based of nothing but a marketting demographic.

And you still lack general understanding on the tournament community, so you shouldn't try to assume how we play the game with your second hand experiance.

Quit being such an envious ******* and play the way you want. Us playing will affect you in no way or form.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Remove wavedashing. Then everyone can be "viewed" as equals. I hate listening to so many arrogant people bragging about wavedashing.

I mean... even when I beat people they'll say I'm bad just because I didn't wavedash. Does that make sense? Just remove it and we can all be happy.

 

[RDK]

Wow, nice mega-post, Phoenix.

And Sandman...

I mean... even when I beat people they'll say I'm bad just because I didn't wavedash. Does that make sense? Just remove it and we can all be happy.

If you can beat ppl who wavedash without using the wavedash, good for you. Keep on doing that. What other people say about you shouldn't matter, especially when you just beat a wavedash user without using wavedash. Obviously then, you don't stink.

And even if they did remove it, we still wouldn't all be "equals"; there still would be people who stunk more than others. It then wouldn't just be a matter of "who's lazy enough not to learn advanced techniques, and who takes the time to learn them."

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Remove wavedashing. Then everyone can be "viewed" as equals. I hate listening to so many arrogant people bragging about wavedashing.

I mean... even when I beat people they'll say I'm bad just because I didn't wavedash. Does that make sense? Just remove it and we can all be happy.

Why should those who have skill be viewed as an ordinary individual?Those who practice succeed, those who don't fail.

You can't avoid these circumstances. It's the facts of life.

 

[psicicle]

Why would it?
You know what's funny? Multimple versions of Smash Bros. was created, and during that time they could have easily taken the technique out.But it would actually destroy the games physics by removing the traction in the game.A character without traction could be absolutely demolished by Fox with no traction shines.
.

yay for rebuttals to crappy arguments

but here, the developers could have taken WD out by treating the ground the same as walls and ceiling with respect to airdodges. You kind of slide up walls and ceilings if you airdodge on those. You just have to keep the character in "airdodge" mode.

Perhaps that goes to show that the devs wanted it in or something but... who cares about what they wanted.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Well if there was no wavedashing then we could really determine who is good and who is bad since all of the "controls" would be the same for everyone. People wouldn't use it as a crutch or an excuse anymore either.

Besides I wouldn't consider breaking my controller AND the game's system a skill.

 

[psicicle]

The controls are the same for everyone...

Or should all techskill in smash bros be taken away?

 

[slikvik]

Well if there was no wavedashing then we could really determine who is good and who is bad since all of the "controls" would be the same for everyone. People wouldn't use it as a crutch or an excuse anymore either.

Besides I wouldn't consider breaking my controller AND the game's system a skill.

wait wait wait...the controls arent the same for everyone? I didnt realize my controller was equipped with extra buttons that allow me to shorthop, wavedash, and l-cancel. This **** is sooo broken. take it out

 

[Red Exodus]

Well if there was no wavedashing then we could really determine who is good and who is bad since all of the "controls" would be the same for everyone. People wouldn't use it as a crutch or an excuse anymore either.

Besides I wouldn't consider breaking my controller AND the game's system a skill.

So you mean your power level is instantaneously going to rise over 9000 and you're going to own us all because wavedashing is out?

[insert crowd laughings their ***es off here]

You're just another one of those people that thinks the game revolves around wavedashing and other techniques. You are WRONG. What frame do certain moves come out in? How big are certain? What percentage can certain attacks be survived up to?

If you don't know any of these you will get beat the SAME exact way. Skill isn't going to fall out of the sky, you have to know the game. Basically you're hanging onto false hopes.

 

[greenblob]

Well if there was no wavedashing then we could really determine who is good and who is bad since all of the "controls" would be the same for everyone. People wouldn't use it as a crutch or an excuse anymore either.

Besides I wouldn't consider breaking my controller AND the game's system a skill.

You can wavedash too, you know.

 

[Hotshot672]

I wonder if you can Wavedash + run and Shoot. it will be called the "Waveshot"

 

[Darkfur]

So you mean your power level is instantaneously going to rise over 9000 and you're going to own us all because wavedashing is out?

[insert crowd laughings their ***es off here]

You're just another one of those people that thinks the game revolves around wavedashing and other techniques. You are WRONG. What frame do certain moves come out in? How big are certain? What percentage can certain attacks be survived up to?

If you don't know any of these you will get beat the SAME exact way. Skill isn't going to fall out of the sky, you have to know the game. Basically you're hanging onto false hopes.

QFT

I really don't have much to add, because pretty much everything I thought to say in response to them was stated by you.

 

[Al Calnos]

I think some people take this game (and many others, for that matter) way too seriously... Its just meant to be fun, thats all.

 

[Loooooni]

Using the Z button for air attacks (Yes, I've actually encountered this....)

whats wrong with that?

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^And advance techniques make the game more fun for us. It really is fun when you see your self getting better through practice and doing better against other people. It's also really fun when you go to a tournament and the standard there is that everyone has put in the effort to learn the advance techs so that everyone can move past that step of competative play.

Advance techs do not make you good, they make you average.

Edit: Actually average play has moved past that, too. So it makes you almost average.

 

[Darkfur]

^^And advance techniques make the game more fun for us. It really is fun when you see your self getting better through practice and doing better against other people.

I can vouch for this. I have recently started practicing Smash a fair amount. I've learned to tech off of the ground, I am attempting to master L Canceling, I can shorthop almost consitently and I've just started to be able to wavedash. (Though am unable to link anything with it at the moment.

It's really fun to see yourself moving faster, reacting to things in a different way and overall getting better. I'm almost positive if I'd gone to the Tournament I went to in GA last month with the amount I've improved now, I'd have done a great deal better. Unlike many who would have complained about getting ***** by everyone using advanced techs and such, I watched and learned and took mental notes. (Only got annoyed when it seemed I was being toyed with. I prefer if I'm going to be beaten, to be beaten with full force. No pity! No Mercy! =p It's how I learn.)

 

[Al Calnos]

I have nothing against advanced techs - I use them too - I'm just talking about the people who are super religious about the game. But hey what can ya do?

 

[ICEIGHT]

I havea feeling that SSBB will have it because most of the advanced techniques were int he game sense the beginning, and most of them arnt glitches

 

[Takeshi245]

I have nothing against advanced techs - I use them too - I'm just talking about the people who are super religious about the game. But hey what can ya do?

Are you talking about the people that play competitively?

 

[Darkfur]

Are you talking about the people that play competitively?

I think they are just referring to elitists.

 

[Takeshi245]

I think they are just referring to elitists.

The type of people that think that tournament play is the only way to play? If that's what you're refering to, I can understand.

 

[RDK]

Wow, this thread is still alive? W00T.

Elitists (a.k.a. people who think one way of playing is THE ONLY way) are different than competitive players.

Don't get them mixed up.

 

[Takeshi245]

Wow, this thread is still alive? W00T.

Elitists (a.k.a. people who think one way of playing is THE ONLY way) are different than competitive players.

Don't get them mixed up.

I see. That goes for everyone who thinks like that, I guess.

 

[RoK the Reaper]

Advanced Techniques in Brawl, Benefits and Downsides.

Super Smash Brothers 64, it didn't have anything such as wavedashing, dash dancing (Only with captain falcon) but yet stilled turned out to be a top selling game that was in high demand. However, most people are trying to figure out excatly why people refuse to play Brawl in some cases, if its not present? Its fairly simple when you think about it.
Smash Brothers 64, all the characters were pretty much balanced in ways that no advanced techniques, other than L-cancelling was needed. It flowed much easier and was nice, fun, enjoyable.
Smash Bros. Melee uses the same Engine brawl will supposedly use, and because of that, are likely to bring about Melee's major flaws. See, in Melee, characters are severly off balanced, and the characters that stand out, still stand out whether or not the movement glitches are present. The glitches are used for movement, such as the dash dance adn wave dash, make it possible for a person who has a different character to take hold with proper mindgames and usage. However, more than likely, these WILL be present in Brawl, let me exlain.
The first Super Smash Bros. 64 and Melee, may have similar engines, for the simple reason of how L-Cancelling is still within it. Wave Dashing was made possible by the ability to air dodge, however, Air Dodging will be avaliable in brawl, because it was a technique that was invaluable, so its a very strong possibility of it existing, and with it, the wave dash. However, other things may not be present.
Such as the Jump Canceled Shine from Fox, it could be reverted back to the first one where you couldn't do so. Major characters could not be included, such as Shiek (Because they're using twilight princess Zelda/Link and she wasn't shiek in that game, as the one from melee was Ocarina of time) And Falco ( Because they said no two characters would have the same moves) So a lot of things could be disappearing, and because every charactger will have unique moves, vastly change th flow of the game with more variety.
But, it all comes down to this. If you can't survive without it, you're not a smasher. Ken, considered the best Marth and best player in the world (Or used to) Won a Major tournament against players who use advanced techniques before he even knew how to do it, simply because his spacing and ability were so good. So top level play is not by what glitches are avaliable, but how you one whats already there.

 

[Darkfur]

Advanced Techniques in Brawl, Benefits and Downsides.

Super Smash Brothers 64, it didn't have anything such as wavedashing, dash dancing (Only with captain falcon) but yet stilled turned out to be a top selling game that was in high demand. However, most people are trying to figure out excatly why people refuse to play Brawl in some cases, if its not present? Its fairly simple when you think about it.
Smash Brothers 64, all the characters were pretty much balanced in ways that no advanced techniques, other than L-cancelling was needed. It flowed much easier and was nice, fun, enjoyable.
Smash Bros. Melee uses the same Engine brawl will supposedly use, and because of that, are likely to bring about Melee's major flaws. See, in Melee, characters are severly off balanced, and the characters that stand out, still stand out whether or not the movement glitches are present. The glitches are used for movement, such as the dash dance adn wave dash, make it possible for a person who has a different character to take hold with proper mindgames and usage. However, more than likely, these WILL be present in Brawl, let me exlain.
The first Super Smash Bros. 64 and Melee, may have similar engines, for the simple reason of how L-Cancelling is still within it. Wave Dashing was made possible by the ability to air dodge, however, Air Dodging will be avaliable in brawl, because it was a technique that was invaluable, so its a very strong possibility of it existing, and with it, the wave dash. However, other things may not be present.
Such as the Jump Canceled Shine from Fox, it could be reverted back to the first one where you couldn't do so. Major characters could not be included, such as Shiek (Because they're using twilight princess Zelda/Link and she wasn't shiek in that game, as the one from melee was Ocarina of time) And Falco ( Because they said no two characters would have the same moves) So a lot of things could be disappearing, and because every charactger will have unique moves, vastly change th flow of the game with more variety.
But, it all comes down to this. If you can't survive without it, you're not a smasher. Ken, considered the best Marth and best player in the world (Or used to) Won a Major tournament against players who use advanced techniques before he even knew how to do it, simply because his spacing and ability were so good. So top level play is not by what glitches are avaliable, but how you one whats already there.

Uh... <_< You DO know what the deffinition of a glitch is right? Since the adcance techs aren't glitches, you only make yourself sound ignorant...

Glitch -

1. a defect or malfunction in a machine or plan.
2. Computers. any error, malfunction, or problem. Compare bug1 (def. 5).
3. a brief or sudden interruption or surge in voltage in an electric circuit.


The "advanced techs" were programmed in intentionally. Therefore they are not a malfunction. We may use them a different way than they were planned (Wavedashing being intentionally put in to stop us from dodging through the stage for instance) but that does not make the bugs or glitches.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY THAT THEY WERE PROGRAMMED INTENTIONALLY!?

WHY!?!?!?!

You seriously all believe that the creaters of Super Smash Brother decided that they were going to throw in all these advanced techs and that wavedashing was completely planned, thereby reducing lag that the characters had for a reason and...

Ugh. I'm going to stop there, otherwise I'm going to have one hell of a massive headache.

It might not be a glitch, but honestly now, just because they didn't catch it doesn't mean they purposely put it in there.

 

[Flare233]

L-canceling: Intentional, it was in SSB64 (Z-canceling) and they didn't remove it in Melee. They actually nerfed it a bit though, making it cut only half the lag instead of 100% of the lag. I think it was originally intended for quickly shielding after landing an aeriel but we found other uses for it.

Short hop: Intentional. Don't tell me it isn't, because that would just be plain idiotic.

Fastfall: Intentional, the "meteor" sparkle when you do it in the first SSB64 proves it. Besides, you were supposed to use it in break the targets and board the platforms.

SHFFL: Intentional. The creators probably didn't think about it when they made the game but they wouldn't be at all surprised that it could be done, as it is just a quick combination of L-canceling, short hopping and fastfalling.

Wavedash: Most likely not intentional, but it is a result of a combination of game physics that WERE intentional.

 

[slikvik]

WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY THAT THEY WERE PROGRAMMED INTENTIONALLY!?

WHY!?!?!?!

You seriously all believe that the creaters of Super Smash Brother decided that they were going to throw in all these advanced techs and that wavedashing was completely planned, thereby reducing lag that the characters had for a reason and...

Ugh. I'm going to stop there, otherwise I'm going to have one hell of a massive headache.

It might not be a glitch, but honestly now, just because they didn't catch it doesn't mean they purposely put it in there.

wavedashing doesnt reduce lag. thats called l-cancelling...at least understand the techniques that you are arguing against. and the developers definitely knew about l-cancelling. they put it in the game. i don't think the developers knew about how wavedashing would be used today. however, they knew what would happen if someone were to airdodge into the ground at an angle.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

wavedashing doesnt reduce lag. thats called l-cancelling...at least understand the techniques that you are arguing against. and the developers definitely knew about l-cancelling. they put it in the game. i don't think the developers knew about how wavedashing would be used today. however, they knew what would happen if someone were to airdodge into the ground at an angle.

First off, I guess I only meant Wavedashing for the un-intentional factor. L-cancelling and others I can see as being purposely being placed into SSBB

And WD does decrease Lag....in fact, it gets rid of it all together. WDing allows you to move at a fairly fast rate, you can attack during it and other things that rolling wont let you do. (this is just from watching someone pull off WDing and my observations on it.)

 

[Flare233]

Sure they knew that when you airdodge into the ground it will have friction and you will slide, but wavedashing may not be in Brawl if it's programmed even just a little differently.

The programming state of "being in the air" for jumping has a big part in the existence of wavedashing. When you jump, during the first frames while you are still on the ground (pushing off for the jump), the game considers you to be in the air, thus allowing an air dodge to be performed.
If the programmers decide to consider these first few frames to not be considered "being in the air," then all we will have left is the triangle jump and the traditional wavedash won't be allowed to be performed. It would probably activate the shield instead.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Eh, whatever the physics of it entails, I've already decided that if WDing becomes official, I won't make a peep against it.

 

[M.K]

Wow, I wish I knew what all these "L-Cancel" and "Wave Shine" and all this jazz was.

See, people will still enjoy (and dominate) the game even without these moves. Personally, they are cool in OR out, I don't use them much anyway!

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

According to tourney players you must automaticlly be a n00b. Sorry dude.

 

[RDK]

According to tourney players you must automaticlly be a n00b. Sorry dude.

That's not true--not all tourney players are like that. Mostly just the elitist Nazi ones.

The average tourney player does not bash people for not knowing about advanced techs, and you know that.

 

[Flare233]

According to tourney players you must automaticlly be a n00b. Sorry dude.

Not completely true. There are 100% casual players, competitive casual players and then the tournament players who use advanced techniques. The competitive casual players aren't necessarily n00bs per se because advanced techs can only get you so far. Other things like spacing and mindgames are more important.

 

[M.K]

@ O_D_L: Well...being a jerk, you must automatically be rude.

Everyone, loosen up, losing a little move isn't going to kill your strategy with a character. It's not that bad~

 

[Misto-Roboto]

How so? Myself and my friends have spent about.. hm... 3 years playing ssbm with wavedashing. It has become so ''bad'' haha that when we attempt to play without wavedashing or shffling or l cancelling, for fun to see what its like to have ''honor'' we are physically incapable of doing it.

heck, yesterday we played soul calibur 2 and we both kept tryint to SHFFL and WD.

I realize, and Dylan has aswell that without wavedashing neither of us would have competent spacing and there would be no point at all in competing. So if theres no wavedashing in brawl, we won't be good at brawl, there will be no point competing, there will no point playing.

Logical? no.

Is it not the basis of skill that one learns to adapt to new techniques? It is logical to assume that if your ability to win is based off a set of techniques that have worked for you in the past you would surely not want that taken from a sequel. One however, can conclude, that by limiting your ability to win based purely off of one or two techniques limits your potential skill level and only exposes you as playing backwards instead of embracing a new set of rules and mastering them to prove you are indeed skillful in the eyes of other Smash Bros. players.

Uh... <_< You DO know what the deffinition of a glitch is right? Since the adcance techs aren't glitches, you only make yourself sound ignorant...

Glitch -

1. a defect or malfunction in a machine or plan.
2. Computers. any error, malfunction, or problem. Compare bug1 (def. 5).
3. a brief or sudden interruption or surge in voltage in an electric circuit.


The "advanced techs" were programmed in intentionally. Therefore they are not a malfunction. We may use them a different way than they were planned (Wavedashing being intentionally put in to stop us from dodging through the stage for instance) but that does not make the bugs or glitches.

That is definitely taken out of context. You clearly have a misinformed view of what counts as a glitch in programming. Just because the error is not harmful, doesn't mean it still is not a glitch. If I compile a program and what I wrote has an unintended bonus to the user, it still is a glitch by definition as I did not intend for this error to take place. Anytime someone writes a program and something else (other than what the programmer expected to happen) takes place, it is a glitch. It is an error, regardless of its results.

 

[greenblob]

Advanced Techniques in Brawl, Benefits and Downsides.

Super Smash Brothers 64, it didn't have anything such as wavedashing, dash dancing (Only with captain falcon) but yet stilled turned out to be a top selling game that was in high demand. However, most people are trying to figure out excatly why people refuse to play Brawl in some cases, if its not present? Its fairly simple when you think about it.
Smash Brothers 64, all the characters were pretty much balanced in ways that no advanced techniques, other than L-cancelling was needed. It flowed much easier and was nice, fun, enjoyable.
Smash Bros. Melee uses the same Engine brawl will supposedly use, and because of that, are likely to bring about Melee's major flaws. See, in Melee, characters are severly off balanced, and the characters that stand out, still stand out whether or not the movement glitches are present. The glitches are used for movement, such as the dash dance adn wave dash, make it possible for a person who has a different character to take hold with proper mindgames and usage. However, more than likely, these WILL be present in Brawl, let me exlain.
The first Super Smash Bros. 64 and Melee, may have similar engines, for the simple reason of how L-Cancelling is still within it. Wave Dashing was made possible by the ability to air dodge, however, Air Dodging will be avaliable in brawl, because it was a technique that was invaluable, so its a very strong possibility of it existing, and with it, the wave dash. However, other things may not be present.
Such as the Jump Canceled Shine from Fox, it could be reverted back to the first one where you couldn't do so. Major characters could not be included, such as Shiek (Because they're using twilight princess Zelda/Link and she wasn't shiek in that game, as the one from melee was Ocarina of time) And Falco ( Because they said no two characters would have the same moves) So a lot of things could be disappearing, and because every charactger will have unique moves, vastly change th flow of the game with more variety.
But, it all comes down to this. If you can't survive without it, you're not a smasher. Ken, considered the best Marth and best player in the world (Or used to) Won a Major tournament against players who use advanced techniques before he even knew how to do it, simply because his spacing and ability were so good. So top level play is not by what glitches are avaliable, but how you one whats already there.

L-canceling, which is intentional, is derived from Z-canceling, which was a glitch. They were programmed in very differently.

Let's see...what did Smash 64 have?
Z-canceling
Smash DI
Dash-dancing (all characters had this)
Pivot
Edge-cancel
Taunt-cancel
Shine Cancel
Short Hop
Fast Fall
Jump from shield
Teleport
Edgehog
Spikes
Teching
Ledgehop
Shield grab
Crouch cancel
Usmash/Up B JC
Jab cancel
A crapload of zero-to-death combos