• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
3,161
Location
Somewhere
Okay, so disregard what I said about commenting on this one in my previous post. Now let's get to it. First up: Kefka, by Vagrant Lustoid.

Vagrant Lustoid said:
Height: 3/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Power: 2/5
Grab Range: 4/5
Running Speed: 4/5
Jump: 2/5
Falling Speed: 3/5
Rolling Speed: 1/5
By "rolling", you mean like, sheild rolls, right? If so...I don't think that's a real category. Everyone in Melee rolls about the same, with the exception of a (very) select few, like Mewtwo. Other than that, I think he could use at least above-average power, being a magician and all that.

Regular Attacks:

A: Palm Strike (1-2%)

AA: Punch (2-3%)

AAA: Headbutt (Minor-medium knockback. 5-6%)
A headbutt? I don't think that fits very well...why not some sort of 'prancing' kick to the chops?

Dash A: Hyperdrive (Kefka charges forward, seemingly floating, and delivers a powerful brute slam. Moderate horizontal knockback. 8-9%)
Define "brute slam". You mean a shoulder block, a la C. Falcon?

F Tilt: Flail (Kefka strikes the opponent in front of him with a flail. 4-7%)
A...a flail? Where does that come from?

U Tilt: Mad Pierrot (Kefka does a flipping kick, hitting the person in front of him upwards moderately. 6-8%)
Like Peach's Ftilt, right?

D Tilt: Three Goddesses (Kefka strikes out behind, in front of and above him simultaneously, with a two second lag afterwards. Each hit causes 3-5%)
Two seconds!? On a tilt? Also, what exactly does he strike out with? Arms, legs...?

F Smash: 10 Hits (Kefka performs a brutal flurry of ten Palm Strikes, with none doing knockback except the last. The hits all occur over a period of around a second, but then there is a second-long lag after the attack ends)

U Smash: Nihilism (Kefka smacks a character upside the head with a flail, sending them up with good knockback. 13-17%)
Again, what's with the flail? The 10 Hits Smash is really neat though.

D Smash: Fallen One (Huge lag of a few seconds both before and after, but this smashes the enemy with massive horizontal and upwards knockback. 30-40%)
But how does he smash them?

Aerial Attacks:

N Air: Slap (Kefka whips his hand out and cracks an enemy in front of him sharply over the face. This slows his descent slightly, but doesn’t cause any really noticeable knockback. 1-4%)

F Air: Magitek (A ball of energy that moves at about the same speed as Samus’ uncharged shots in SSB64. Pushes Kefka backwards slightly when used. It fires forward, but will bounce once if it hits anything other than a character. 2-5%)

B Air: Cloak Strike (Kefka’s cloak twists and slams backwards a short distance, hitting anyone behind him with medium knockback backwards and down. 7-8%)

U Air: Train (Kefka raises his hands, creating a quarter-second lag or somesuch and the area directly above, and slightly to either side flashes green. Anyone hit by this becomes stunned for two seconds, but recovers all jumps and recoveries. 3-5%)
These are all great ideas, but being stunned for two seconds in the air would doom alot of characters (Bowser, Luigi, Falco).

D Air: Meteo (Kefka creates a small burst of fiery energy directly beneath him that serves as a meteor slam if you are caught directly within it. 6-9%)
Biznitchin'.

Special Attacks:

B: Trinity Magic (Kefka launches a projectile of ice, lightning or fire forward, which moves slightly slower than Fox’s lasers. The order cycles from fire (2-3% and further burn where the strike lands for two more seconds at 2% per second, similar to Ness’ PK fire) to lightning (5%) to ice (1-3%, and slows the hit character by 25% for three seconds). Kefka can fire one projectile per second)

Smash B: Forsaken/Goner (Kefka cackles madly, the screen flashes red and a disembodied head appears, and four stars shoot from it, covering a 45-degree spread in front of him, with a moderate range. Each star does 7% damage and has medium knockback. Highly efficient at close range, due to more stars hitting a single character. However, the lag is roughly a second and a half long at the beginning)

Up B: Havoc Wing (Kefka sprouts six angelic wings and shoots upwards and forwards, damaging anybody he hits and knocking them upwards. The recovery distance traveled is reasonable, being slightly better than average, to offset his short primary and secondary jumps. 8-10%)

Down B: Ultima (A hazy green ring manifests around Kefka, for roughly three seconds, and anyone who touches it is hit for moderate damage and medium-high knockback. Kefka is still vulnerable to attack from above, and while he can walk, Kefka cannot run or jump while Ultima is active. If Kefka is hit by anything while Ultima is active, it is cancelled and Kefka is stunned for two seconds. 14-18%)
A few things:

Smash B: You realize 1 1/2 seconds is basically a Falcon Punch-windup? That's pretty detrimental for a move that can only do, at most, 28%, with regular knockback.

Down B: But can he still ground-dodge and sheild roll? Either way, I think it's a bit unfair to restrict him to just walking. Running, but no jumping would work, as would 'jumping breaks the spell'.

Final Smash: Light of Judgment (A beam of whitish-blue light sweeps across the stage from one side to the other, striking all characters except Kefka for 20-30% damage and high knockback meteor strikes on them all, generally spelling doom for anyone not over a platform.)
As long as it doesn't penetrate platforms. I'm wholeheartedly against FSs' that instantly hit everyone.

Grapple Attacks:

Grab: R.Polarity (Kefka extends his hand and a greenish light shoots from it, to about the same distance as Link’s grab. Can be used for recovery, but isn’t directable, being able to move horizontal only)
...Now that you mention it, Brawl should let characters like Link and Samus direct their grabs, in the same way you can aim Link's Boomerang.

Grab Attack: Poison (As long as Keka holds the Grab attack button, he automatically causes damage to the character, at a rate of 2% per second, but it is possible to wiggle from his grasp)
Neat.

F Throw: Scar Beam (Kefka throws the character into the air and then slams the person with his hand. There is a slight freeze of both Kefka and the hit character for around half a second, and then the character is flung backwards as a beam of blue light spirals from Kefka’s open palm. 6-10%)

B Throw: Revenger (Kefka spins around, launching the character backwards with trails of green vapour following. The distance thrown is generally moderate to good. 10-12%)

U Throw: Metamorphosis (Kefka’s wings burst into being and he shoots up into the air, before releasing the other character at the apex of the throw, to be shot in a random direction with moderate-good knockback. 4-10%)

D Throw: Dancing Mad (Kefka tosses the character to the ground and proceeds to jump on the character twice, laughing as he does. There’s a slight finishing lag as he jumps off and the other character stands up. 12-18%)
All fine, although his U Throw shouldn't be able to throw the enemy downwards...imagine using it next to an edge.

Recovery/Defensive:

Shield: Prism (Kefka forms a translucent flickering pyramid of energy that changes colour around himself. It serves like any other shield, except that when it breaks, instead of Kefka being stunned, he does his crazy laugh for approximately three seconds, and the player is unable to control him.)
Well, a sheild break lasts for longer than 3 seconds...just say "he laughs as long as a sheild break".

Edge Recovery: Float (Kefka lets go of the edge and simply floats up to land near the edge. Since the floating is somewhat slow, Kefka is able to perform any of his aerial attacks until he lands)
This is broken. If he can access his meteor smash while being invincible (as every character is while rising)...bad things would happen.

Standing Recovery: Illusion (Kefka, when knocked to the ground, automatically fades out and reappears behind the character who knocked him over, though there’s a one-second finishing lag before he can act)
By "standing recovery", you mean tapping R the second you land on the ground?

Assuming you do (and really, even if you don't)...I don't see the point of this. With a 1 second lag, the opponent has more than enough time to escape or, more likely, smash attack Kefka.

All the other stuff is fine, I just didn't copy&paste it in.

SEGWAY!

Now for Isaac.

Isaac

Potential moveset by O D I N:

Height: 2/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Power: 3/5
Grab Range: 1/5
Running Speed: 3/5
Jump: 2/5
Falling Speed: 3/5
Rolling Speed: 4/5
I think a 1/5 grab isn't enough. A 2 would fit better, I think. If it's 1, you'd end up almost never using the grabs at all...His jump could use a bit more, too.

And again..."rolling speed"?

“A” Moves:

A: Isaac makes a quick slash with his sword in front of him. The move can be used as a rapid jabbing attack. It is faster than Marth’s, but slower than Capt. Falcon’s.
So does it look like Marth's two-stage attack, or Falcon's "high-mid-low" thing? Or something else entirely?

F-tilt: Isaac performs a long, horizontal slash in front of him. Decent knockback, average damage.
U-tilt: Isaac swings his sword over his head, drawing across his body from back to front. The attack is strongest on the down swing, but has decent knockback when the attack hits above his body.
D-tilt: Isaac slams the ground in front of him, causing a minor tremor, and ripples the ground making rocks shoot out of the ground slightly. The foe trips. Little knockback, decent damage.
One question: on the Dtilt, what's he hit the ground with?

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Isaac crouches low. After the charge, Isaac lunges forward with a horizontal sweep. Strong knockback, very laggy after the hit. No follow up.
Up Smash: Isaac, brings his arms close to his body. After the charge, Isaac throws his arms up in the air, and rocks from the ground fly upward a short distance. The rocks do decent damage, but little knockback. Great for aerial counters.
Down Smash: Isaac brings his arms close to his body again, this time, looking at the ground. After the charge, Isaac slams his fists into the ground, causing a stronger tremor around his body. The area of effect is within a “foot and a half” of his body. The tremor is only slightly lower than Isaac’s height. Strong attack, decent knockback at an upward angle.
All fine here.

Aerials:

Nair: Isaac performs a flip in midair, bringing his sword in front of him. This attack is quick, little knockback, and has an attack radius from above his head (first frame) to behind him (last frame before leveling out). It’s a 180 degree attack range.
Fair: Isaac does a horizontal slash at slightly lower angle to his body. It’s a quick slash with good knockback and damage.
Uair: Isaac does a spin in the air, the sword held above him at an angle. The spin is one rotation, and his Isaac’s faster aerial. Damage is based on multiple hits, a max of 3. First frame of the attack, part two of the spin, and the last frame.
Dair: Isaac kicks twice with his feet beneath him. 2 hits max. No knockback on the first hit, the second hit is a meteor smash. Low damage.
Very nice.

“B” Moves:

B : Venus Djinn
Isaac summons a Venus Djinn to hurl a rock at his opponent. The rock will do 3-7% damage, knockback is average. Can be spammed, but it works like Falco’s laser. There’s lag between each throw. Same throw when in the air.
So does it arc like a thrown item? And if it can be used like Falco's blaster...it should do less max damage.

Towards B: Mars Djinn
Isaac summons a Mars Djinn to breathe fire upon his opponents. The attack works like a fire flower. It lasts for a few seconds, and then the Djinn disappears, the fire gradually getting smaller with each breath.
It'd be neat if Isaac can summon the Djinn, then move around as usual while the Djinn stays stationary and breathes it's fire.

Down B: Mercury Djinn
Isaac summons a Djinn to create a ice wall in front of him. This ice wall can be used to stand on, jump on, and can be picked up by stronger characters. It can be shattered after 20% damage has been done to it (based on characters, I.e. DK should have no problem shattering it). If an opponent is in front of Isaac while using this, the pillar causes some damage and knockback. While in the air, Isaac can use this to create a small sheet of ice beneath him, that floats in the air long enough (not long, like a second. It floats glowing as if it was just created) for Isaac (and other characters) to use a footstool jump off of it. After the move has been used, it takes 10 seconds before it can be used again, as it requires a lot of Psynergy to use, since Isaac is an Earth Adept. When attempted to be used after the first time, Isaac creates a splash of water, causing no damage, no knockback, and doesn’t effect the foe at all.
Definitely his coolest special attack.

Up B: Jupiter Djinn
Isaac summons the Jupiter Djinn to propel him a large distance in any direction. The move’s range is farther than Falco’s, but shorter than Fox’s. It’s fast, and has no charge time. However, it deals no damage, and no knockback. It has low priority, so Isaac can be knocked out of it easily.
Fun stuff.


Final Smash: Grand Gaia
Isaac raises his arms into the air, the stage/arena shaking. The stage erupts with flying rocks and light pouring from the ground, dealing massive damage. Each rock counts as a hit, so it'll deal damage on a multiple hit level, rather than a one time massive damage hit. The range of the attack is based upon the size of the stage, not the screen.
But only the ground is affected, so characters can avoid this by footstool jumping off of other characters or jumping and recovering into the air!

Grabs:
Isaac reaches out with both arms, and grabs his opponent. His reach is short.

Jab:
Isaac knees his opponent.

Fthrow:
Isaac shoves his opponent forward with both arms. Average knockback, average damage.

Uthrow:
Since Isaac is so tiny, and doesn’t have a lot of arm strength, Isaac uses his magic to use the ground as launcher. The ground beneath his opponent shoots up as a pillar of earth, propelling the opponent into the air. High knockback, decent damage. The pillar disappears after the throw.

Dthrow: Isaac shoves his foe to the ground, and pops him in the face 3 times. Multiple hitter, for 2-3% each hit. After the punches, the opponent slides forward from the 3rd hit, which is much like an uppercut, only horizontal. Low knockback. Damage is average. Highest damage out of throws, due to multiple hits.

Bthrow: Isaac uses his Psynergy to grab his opponent, and chuck him backwards. Highest knockback out of the throws.
APPROVED!

So yeah, great movesets, both of you.
 

DJ Napps

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
291
Location
Howard U
Yes, its me. The Bomberman defender.
Here is my moveset. If it bores you, dont read it and simply flame me. Enjoy!


DJ Napps' Uber Moveset!

STATS:
Speed- ***
Size- ***
Weight- **
Jump- **
Reach- **
Strength- ***

A- Left-hand jab
AA- Right punch, Left punch
AAA- Strong Uppercut (w/ slight explosion)
Dash A- Head-dive- Bomberman rapidly dives, headfirst, straight ahead of him and headbutts his opponent.
A^- Upward fiery punch
AV- Heavy Stomp (slight explosion)
A<>- Strong kick


Nair- Hard Slap
Fair- Knee (Bomberman knees opponent in the face)
Bair- Double arm push
Uair- Flipkick
Dair- downward drop-kick

B- Drop Bomb- Hold B 2 secs to hold, continuous holding pumps bomb. If B is pressed when maxium bombs are placed, the bombs would detonate simultaneously.
B<>-Bomb Kick/ Soccer Bomb -if a laid bomb is in front of him, Bomberman kicks it forward and it rolls until it hit something. If Bomberman is not in front of a bomb, Bomberman quickly lays a bomb any kicks it while flipping over (like a famous soccer move). It flies through the air quickly and explodes on contact.
BV- Suicide Bomb- Bomberman slams a bomb beneath his feet, quickly flinging him upward and causing slight damage to him. Causes major damage to neighboring enemies
B^- Bomber Copter- Bomberman bursts upward with propeller spinning above him. He is able to fly around freely for around 10 secs.

Grab- Standard two hand grab
Grab Attack- general headbutt
^ Throw- Throws opponent into air and quickly throws a bomb at them
> Throw- Straps bomb to and throws opponent forward
< Throw- Throws opponent behind Bomberman (that's it)
V Throw- Slams opponent on ground on which, they explode on impact.

Final Smash-
Bomberman pumps a legendary Red Bomb to maximum size (around 2x the height of Bowser). Bomberman speed is greatly decreased and cannot jump when carrying the bomb. He is free to throw the bomb wherever he pleases, the bombs explosion radius affects everyone on the stage. Any player hit with the Bomb is instantly knocked off stage or is immobilized and dizzy (with stars flying around their head as in Bomberman 64).
Then, Bomberman jumps on the back of Pommy and rides around the stage with increased speed and jumping ability. He can drop as much as 10 bombs at one time and quickly as desired. Pommy is also able to attack opponents (i.e-biting). Duration: 15 secs.


Item: Virus! (Skull from Bomberman 64)
-Fire- user spontaneously combusts and is on fire for around 10 secs. User can touch other players which temporarily lits them afire (5 secs). Does damage overtime to user.
-Big- user becomes larger, heavier, and stronger, but slower and much lower jump.
-Small- user becomes smaller, much higher jumps, and faster, but weaker and more easily knocked away.
-Jammed- user cannot stop moving but its able to change direction and jump. Speed increases over time.
-Reverse- all controller moves are reversed. Up is crouch, Down is jump, B is A, etc.
-Ghost- user cannot receive or use physical attacks. User can now hijack an opponent and semi-control them.
-Stun- User can barely move, but can take slightly more damage.

Entrance- Rides in on his pet, Pommy. Pommy runs away scared right before the battle starts.

Kirby- Standard pink Kirby but with Bomberman eyes ( | | ) and antennae.

Taunt: Celebrates as in Bomberman 64

Costumes- (similar to Clark's)
White Bomber
Black Bomber
Red Bomber
Blue Bomber
Gold Bomber

Winning Poses-
1.Does backflip and smiles as in Bomberman Hero.
2.Jumps and punches air above him while smiling.

Notes-
-Only 4 bombs can be placed on the field at once.
-Other Bombermen can kick other Bombermen's bombs.
-Any attacks upon a bomb would explode immediately.
-If Bomberman lands on one of his bombs he will do a low bounce. Pumped bombs give him higher bounces.
-All Virus effects (except Fire) has a chance to be passed on to an opponent. Opponents with higher health percentage have a higher chance of receiving the Virus. Its duration is restarted everytime it is passed on.


I'm sure this didn't change your mind about changing Bonk to good 'ol Bman, but hey, its worth a shot....
 

Vagrant Lustoid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
254
Okay, so disregard what I said about commenting on this one in my previous post. Now let's get to it. First up: Kefka, by Vagrant Lustoid.

By "rolling", you mean like, sheild rolls, right? If so...I don't think that's a real category. Everyone in Melee rolls about the same, with the exception of a (very) select few, like Mewtwo. Other than that, I think he could use at least above-average power, being a magician and all that.
Yeah, that was my mistake. I was originally going to make him weaker but more tricksy. He's definitely about a 3 or 3.5/5

A headbutt? I don't think that fits very well...why not some sort of 'prancing' kick to the chops?

Define "brute slam". You mean a shoulder block, a la C. Falcon?
Yeah, I wrote it all up in a rush last night to prove to a friend that Kefka could work. I'll change the attack, sure. As for the slam, well... I wasn't entirely sure, since Hyperdrive as an animation is just a trail of lines to the character and then a powerful physical attack, in VI. Yeah, shoulder barge I guess. Kefka turns out to be insanely strong physically as well as magically.

A...a flail? Where does that come from?
Kefka uses the flail in the earlier battles you have with him in VI, before he goes all godly.

Two seconds!? On a tilt? Also, what exactly does he strike out with? Arms, legs...?

Again, what's with the flail? The 10 Hits Smash is really neat though.
Okay, yeah, two seconds is a long time. I haven't played Melee for a while, i've forgotten just how long a lag that is and how badly it hurts. That's probably why a lot of my lag times seem weird. Not used to the speed.

But how does he smash them?

These are all great ideas, but being stunned for two seconds in the air would doom alot of characters (Bowser, Luigi, Falco).
For Fallen One, I wasn't sure, sicne I couldn't remember the move precisely, but I've watched the final battle again on YouTube and have concluded that he probably slams the character down into the ground with a pair of wings that burst forth and retract again or something, since the animation in the game is that a little cherub flies to your characters and stealths their HP.

Again, the lag time is due to falling out of familiarity with fall speeds and the like. I'll cut it back to one second.

A few things:

Smash B: You realize 1 1/2 seconds is basically a Falcon Punch-windup? That's pretty detrimental for a move that can only do, at most, 28%, with regular knockback.

Down B: But can he still ground-dodge and sheild roll? Either way, I think it's a bit unfair to restrict him to just walking. Running, but no jumping would work, as would 'jumping breaks the spell'.

As long as it doesn't penetrate platforms. I'm wholeheartedly against FSs' that instantly hit everyone.
Hrm, the lag problem again. Half a second should suffice then for the B Smash. Ultima would work with rolls and dodges also. I was just worried about him barreling into other characters to trigger the effect, but it doesn't exactly last all that long... yeah, I'll just make it that jumping breaks Ultima.

And no, Light of Judgment wouldn't hit you if you were under a platform. Except perhaps in Pit's arena or whatever it is with the shattering platforms. Which would look kinda cool.

...Now that you mention it, Brawl should let characters like Link and Samus direct their grabs, in the same way you can aim Link's Boomerang.

All fine, although his U Throw shouldn't be able to throw the enemy downwards...imagine using it next to an edge.
I've always been a fan of directional extended grabs, but doesn't suit Kefka. And I'm glab you think the poisoning thing is nice. Oops, yeah, I did intend by random direction that it would be forwards, backwards or up, or forward-up/backwards-up. Down was never an intention.

Well, a sheild break lasts for longer than 3 seconds...just say "he laughs as long as a sheild break".
Bah, **** it. Timing again. Rightio, I'll fix it.

This is broken. If he can access his meteor smash while being invincible (as every character is while rising)...bad things would happen.

By "standing recovery", you mean tapping R the second you land on the ground?

Assuming you do (and really, even if you don't)...I don't see the point of this. With a 1 second lag, the opponent has more than enough time to escape or, more likely, smash attack Kefka.
Bah. Timing once more. I'll remove the lag from the standing recovery, which is indeed tapping R, and you're right. I'll fix up Float with something else. Perhaps no damage, but rather a set knockback that always pushes any character near the edge a set distance back along the platform.
 

True Fool

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
524
Location
Vegas
Blargh! Don't you know about spoiler warnings? Fat FE9/10 spoiler in there, possibly others.

I suggest you put some up so you don't hear more people like me whining about it.
 

R0D4N

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
42
Location
In yo brain drinkin' yo spinal fluid.
Wow! Grade A. Seriously though, the Lloyd thing kindagainst made me tear up a bit. I would love to see him as an Assist Trophy. I can imagine Lloyd coming in from off the side with his wooden swords in hand doing a Sword Rain preforating anything in front of him. Or pulling a Temptest, flipping across the screen destroying Peach and her evil Parasol.
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
3,161
Location
Somewhere
Vagrant Lustoid said:
Kefka is fixed. And as an aside, yay for Ike.
Well then repost it, or do something to catalog itso it isn't forgotten as we move through the pages.

And as an aside, HOLY CRAP.
 

LukeFonFabre

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
1,094
Congratulations Wiseguy on your first predicted newcomer.

Not that many of us really doubted Ike's chances.:p

Edit: though still no Meta Knight update? I would've thought we'd get him before a new newcomer. Guess Sakurai is back to being modest about his own characters again.
 

Vagrant Lustoid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
254
Yay for reposts! Once I get a few more movesets done, I might consider sticking them in an individual thread of mine.

Name: Kefka Palazzo
Age: Unknown
Developer: Square
First Appearance: Final Fantasy VI
Other Notable Appearances:

Height: 3/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Power: 3/5
Attack Range: 3/5
Grab Range: 4/5
Running Speed: 3/5
Jump: 2/5
Falling Speed: 3/5

Regular Attacks:


A: Palm Strike (1-2%)

AA: Punch (2-3%)

AAA: Prance Kick (Minor-medium knockback. 5-6%)

Dash A: Hyperdrive (Kefka charges forward, seemingly floating, and delivers a powerful brute slam with his shoulder. Moderate horizontal knockback. 8-9%)

F Tilt: Flail (Kefka strikes the opponent in front of him with a flail. 4-7%)

U Tilt: Mad Pierrot (Kefka does a flipping kick, hitting the person in front of him upwards moderately with a kick to the face. 6-8%)

D Tilt: Three Goddesses (Kefka strikes out behind and in front of him with his legs by doing the splits and above him simultaneously as he throws a hand up in a flashy dance-style move, with a half-second lag afterwards. Each hit causes 3-5%)

F Smash: 10 Hits (Kefka performs a brutal flurry of ten Palm Strikes, with none doing knockback except the last. The hits all occur over a period of around a second, but then there is a second-long lag after the attack ends)

U Smash: Nihilism (Kefka smacks a character upside the head with a flail, sending them up with good knockback. 13-17%)

D Smash: Fallen One (Huge lag of a few seconds both before and after, but this smashes the enemy with massive horizontal and upwards knockback as a pair of wings pop from Kefka's back and smack the character in the stomach/upper chest and then dissolve. 30-40%)

Aerial Attacks:

N Air: Slap (Kefka whips his hand out and cracks an enemy in front of him sharply over the face. This slows his descent slightly, but doesn’t cause any really noticeable knockback. 1-4%)

F Air: Magitek (A ball of energy that moves at about the same speed as Samus’ uncharged shots in SSB64. Pushes Kefka backwards slightly when used. It fires forward, but will bounce once if it hits anything other than a character. 2-5%)

B Air: Cloak Strike (Kefka’s cloak twists and slams backwards a short distance, hitting anyone behind him with medium knockback backwards and down. 7-8%)

U Air: Train (Kefka raises his hands, creating a quarter-second lag or somesuch and the area directly above, and slightly to either side flashes green. Anyone hit by this becomes stunned for a second, but recovers all jumps and recoveries. 3-5%)

D Air: Meteo (Kefka creates a small burst of fiery energy directly beneath him that serves as a meteor slam if you are caught directly within it. 6-9%)

Special Attacks:

B: Trinity Magic (Kefka launches a projectile of ice, lightning or fire forward, which moves slightly slower than Fox’s lasers. The order cycles from fire (2-3% and further burn where the strike lands for two more seconds at 2% per second, similar to Ness’ PK fire) to lightning (5%) to ice (1-3%, and slows the hit character by 25% for three seconds). Kefka can fire one projectile per second)

Smash B: Forsaken/Goner (Kefka cackles madly, the screen flashes red and a disembodied head appears, and four stars shoot from it, covering a 45-degree spread in front of him, with a moderate range. Each star does 7% damage and has medium knockback. Highly efficient at close range, due to more stars hitting a single character. However, the lag is roughly a second and a half long at the beginning)

Up B: Havoc Wing (Kefka sprouts six angelic wings and shoots upwards and forwards, damaging anybody he hits and knocking them upwards. The recovery distance traveled is reasonable, being slightly better than average, to offset his short primary and secondary jumps. 8-10%)

Down B:
Ultima (A hazy green ring manifests around Kefka, for roughly three seconds, and anyone who touches it is hit for moderate damage and medium-high knockback. Kefka is still vulnerable to attack from above, and while he can walk and run, Kefka cannot jump while Ultima is active. If Kefka is hit by anything while Ultima is active, it is cancelled and Kefka is stunned for two seconds. 14-18%)

Final Smash: Light of Judgment (A beam of whitish-blue light sweeps across the stage from one side to the other, striking all characters except Kefka for 20-30% damage and high knockback meteor strikes on them all, generally spelling doom for anyone not over a platform. The Smash is non-penetrating, meaning that if you are beneath a platform, your character will be unharmed, though knocked to his/her feet as the beam passes overhead.)

Grapple Attacks:

Grab: R.Polarity (Kefka extends his hand and a greenish light shoots from it, to about the same distance as Link’s grab. Can be used for recovery, but isn’t directable, being able to move horizontal only)

Grab Attack: Poison (As long as Keka holds the Grab attack button, he automatically causes damage to the character, at a rate of 2% per second, but it is possible to wiggle from his grasp)

F Throw: Scar Beam (Kefka throws the character into the air and then slams the person with his hand. There is a slight freeze of both Kefka and the hit character for around half a second, and then the character is flung backwards as a beam of blue light spirals from Kefka’s open palm. 6-10%)

B Throw: Revenger (Kefka spins around, launching the character backwards with trails of green vapour following. The distance thrown is generally moderate to good. 10-12%)

U Throw: Metamorphosis (Kefka’s wings burst into being and he shoots up into the air, before releasing the other character at the apex of the throw, to be shot in a random direction (backwards, up or forwards) with moderate-good knockback. 4-10%)

D Throw:
Dancing Mad (Kefka tosses the character to the ground and proceeds to jump on the character twice, laughing as he does. There’s a slight finishing lag as he jumps off and the other character stands up. 12-18%)

Recovery/Defensive:

Shield: Prism (Kefka forms a translucent flickering pyramid of energy that changes colour around himself. It serves like any other shield, except that when it breaks, instead of Kefka being stunned, he does his crazy laugh for the length of a standard shield break, and the player is unable to control him.)

Edge Recovery: Float (Kefka lets go of the edge and simply floats up to land near the edge. As he floats up, Kefka glows with energy that causes moderate knockback upwards to any character who touches him, but no damage)

Standing Recovery: Illusion (Kefka, when knocked to the ground, automatically fades out and reappears behind the character who knocked him over)

Other Data:

Taunt: Kefka sweeps his cape back and laughs his maniacal laugh. It’s a fairly long taunt, between 2 and 3 seconds.

Victory Pose 1: Kefka plants his hands on his hips and cackles as his cloak flutters mysteriously.

Victory Pose 2: Kefka states ‘The end is... beyond chaos’ and the disembodied head appears as the screen fades to flickering red.

Victory Pose 3: Kefka dances madly on screen, shouting "I hate hate hate hate HATE you all!".

Loss Pose: Kefka clutches his stomach and falls forward, sparks surrounding him.

Entrance: Three statue-like creatures fly onto screen, around a ball of transluscent energy, in which we see Kefka sitting cross-legged. The bubble bursts, Kefka floats to the ground and the goddesses wink out of existence.

Costumes:
He’s a clown. He’s a jester. He’s a pierrot. Any mad circus outfits will do him. Obviously his first costume is his red and yellow thing with white and red makeup.

Arena: Kefka’s Tower, Floating Continent (complete with Three Goddess statues that do random stuff)
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud


YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME!

Whew... sorry. This update has me realy, realy excited! Sakurai has announced Ike as the new representative of the Fire emblem series!!!! Ike, the greatest, the most awesome, the most popular, the most non-tiara wearing Fire Emblem lord in history! IKE OWNS!!!!

I'll update my thread and post a Wall of Pain tonight. I just wanted to share my glee before I headed for a Smash tourney!

(Black Knight FTW!!!!)

-WG
 

Arteen

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
1,627
Location
Vault
Aren't we forgetting someone? Someone whose name begins with an "R" and ends with an "egal"?

Best character in the game by far.
He's my least favorite character and is almost never in my party unless I'm actively trying to give all the characters equal time in the party. Thinking about it, he'd actually make a unique SSBB fighter, but he's hardly representational of the game, since he (and Presea) doesn't play as significant of a role as any other playable character.

I just finished a co-op playthrough of the game where my sister made us choose Regal as our soul mate, so I had to suffer through horrible conversations with him. Every time he speaks up about the main quest and saving the world(s), it feels so out-of-place since he's essentially tangentially related to the main quest, and all of his extra conversations feel like forced conversation or are otherwise hilariously bad (ie "[To Kratos] You are…even less capable than I am at expressing your feelings!" Ooohhh buuuuurn! Now shut up Regal and let someone important talk!).

He just does so much damage. The only thing wrong with him is his lack of a second outfit...
He has a few other outfits if you check out the sidequests. His bathing suit covers up more of him than his regular clothing (and that creepy half-shirt thing he wears). He also has a chef outfit, noble clothing, and probably more than that as well. Beating the game with costumes on is so much fun. My last game ended with Lloyd in swimming trunks and a snorkel (would've been a pirate had we remembered to finish a certain sidequest first), Raine in beachwear, Genis in a Katz costume, and Zelos in noble attire (my usual group), with Regal in his chef's outfit, Presea and Collette in dresses, and Sheena in a very impractical dress.

Archyp Cosh, nice counter-arguments as well!
I saw his inclusion in Melee as a detriment, actually, as he's already had his "minute of fame". But hey, being a veteran must mean SOMETHING, so perhaps I'm just looking at it wrong.
As of right now, we don't know if the SSBB team has a "15 minutes of fame" mentality (if a character isn't really needed, like Falco, ICs, G&W etc., he's removed/replaced) for character selection or "veterans are important" mentality. My view is that for the most part, "veterans are important" and characters like Falco, Ness, and the retro characters will return. I could easily be wrong, and more characters will be replaced/removed than I anticipated. I think that the SSBB team's mentality will become clearer in a month or two once we see wha other characters the site confirms or deconfirms.

I think of Wario as almost completely divorced from his Mario roots, similar to Yoshi in a way. Though he probably doesn't NEED any more representation in Brawl, Warioware is a decently popular series and I feel that gives him the edge for a second character. I brought it up in my list, but if Fire Emblem could pull a second rep, despite his clonery, then I think Wario can manage it. He's got a lot of games under his belt now too.
Wario has two series of his own: Wario Land and WarioWare. I'm not that familiar with either, but I'm pretty sure Wario and Syrup are the only viable reps from the former and there aren't any standouts from the latter. Syrup isn't exactly a recognizable, notable character, nor is she significant in the grand scheme of things. For WW, no character really has significance over any other as none of them really stand out. Wario will certainly to be wacky enough to fully represent WarioWare on his own. Besides, the WW characters seem like AT material, if anything. What better represents a game full of 5-second minigames than a quick 5-second AT appearance in a game? In addition, I'd rather see more deserving characters from franchises that would otherwise go unrepresented. I'd much prefer Golden Sun or Tales of Symphonia representation than some insignificant WarioWare character.

I did actually consider adding only a single rep and keeping Ness, but I seem to recall reading something about how Sakurai really wanted to use Lucas in the last two Smash Bros. but was stymied by lack of game being released. In response to not needing more than one rep, I feel that the Mother series could not only use more exposure (despite not being a fan) but that all Smash Brothers-established Nintendo series could use at least one more rep.
If Sakurai cuts Ness for Lucas, he's going to confuse the 99% of people who have never heard of Lucas because his game was never released outside Japan, and the series is so niche that enough people probably still don't know who Ness is anyway. Also, besides being newer (as if that actually mattered), what does make Lucas more deserving than Ness? Regarding the Mother series overall, I think the team will treat it as only a little above retro status, as I don't think Nintendo really cares about the series much more than Ice Climber, Kid Icarus, or other retro games. Ness will stay as the notable veteran retro character, but Mother will still get one slot only, like the other retro games. I don't entirely agree than all the established characters from the first game (I'm assuming that's what you meant) deserve one more rep. DK deserves Diddy, but I feel that Mother deserves just one, but maaayyyybeee two, and F-Zero deserves just one, but maaayyybeee two (all the others, Yoshi excepted as an extension of Mario, have gotten more rep). Neither is really significant enough. If anything, other non-represented series need more exposure over Mother. I'd much prefer Golden Sun or Tales of Symphonia representation than some insignificant WarioWare additional Mother character.

Au contraire, mon ami! Fire Emblem is an internationally recognized series with 10 games released in Japan and 3 (coming up on 4) released to at least some success in the United States. If it managed two reps as of Melee (and only 6 games with none international), I think that another 4 games nets it at least one more representative. This might be slightly biased towards Fire Emblem though, considering I love the series, but I do feel it's established itself as a worthy series.
Touché! I'm not familiar enough with the series, but do any characters really stand out and are significant over any other characters? They all seem rather similar or otherwise unnotable. It really doesn't matter how many games the series has if none of the characters are all that distinct. The FE choices for Melee seemed arbitrary enough; Marth because he was the first, and Roy because he was the latest. If that was the main criteria, does the series need any more? FE is popular enough and significant enough for two characters, certainly, but does it really need/deserve a third rep, and does it really have three reps that could solidly represent the franchise in a way that just two couldn't? (I ask this way not because I already think it's undeserving, but because I don't really know enough about it or its characters to know if it's deserving or not). Besides, I'd much prefer Golden Sun or Tales of Symphonia representation than some insignificant WarioWare additional Mother copy+pasted FE swordsman character.

Actually, I think it has at least a mediocre chance. Not only was Tales of Symphonia a good sale for Nintendo, as well as being one of the only good RPGs on the system, but they're making a sequel EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE WII according to their Tales release schedule. Yeah, I do feel that Lloyd would probably make it in before Sheena, but she has such a unique weapon and fighting style. Seriously, check this out:
...
Yeah, yeah, pipe dream probably. But hey, as the not annoying lead female character of a Nintendo distributed and voice-acted (in the US at least) game with an upcoming spin-off? Great Namco representation right there!
That's a pretty fun moveset you have there. (I was never all that great with Sheena in ToS since I mained Zelos [or when avaliable, Kratos; I always go for the Zelos/good ending] and usually played as Presea or Collette otherwise, so I never figured out how best to fight with her) I'd equally like Raine, Sheena, or Kratos as ToS representation. As much as I like Zelos, I don't think I could stand him in SSBB. Too bad they are all just pipedreams. Also, I think the decisions for series representations were decided long before production on the ToS Wii sequel, so I don't think that mattered, unfortunately. Maybe we'll be surprised.
 

Copperpot

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
514
Location
In your cereal, stealin' your prizes!
Could someone possibly post the Ike pics on here? Can't view them from work, and I've got a loooooong day ahead of me.

Also, one of Vagrant's earlier posts made me realize something. When you look at Pit's stage, notice how the 'ground' platform has the exact same pattern (repeated) as the floating, breakable platforms. Does anyone else (besides me) think that even the ground platform will break apart in segments?
 

Vagrant Lustoid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
254
Oh god, this is going to be the most ridiculous Wall of Pain I've ever done. I'm critiquig Bomberman, WW Link, Isaac, Waluigi, Sheena and Diddy Kong. Bring on the PAIN.

BOMBERMAN

Yes, its me. The Bomberman defender.
Here is my moveset. If it bores you, dont read it and simply flame me. Enjoy!

DJ Napps' Uber Moveset!

STATS:
Speed- ***
Size- ***
Weight- **
Jump- **
Reach- **
Strength- ***
Eh, reasonable stats I guess. I imagined him as being a bit smaller than average, though not as small as Kirby or anything. If his strength is his attack power, and you’re mostly relating it to his explosives, it seems fine.

A- Left-hand jab
AA- Right punch, Left punch
AAA- Strong Uppercut (w/ slight explosion)
Dash A- Head-dive- Bomberman rapidly dives, headfirst, straight ahead of him and headbutts his opponent.
A^- Upward fiery punch
AV- Heavy Stomp (slight explosion)
A<>- Strong kick
Regular Attacks… hrm… They’re basic, but they do the job. Given that they’re plain attacks, I suppose there’s no need to describe them. I am a fan of approximate damage % though, but can’t have it all.

Nair- Hard Slap
Fair- Knee (Bomberman knees opponent in the face)
Bair- Double arm push
Uair- Flipkick
Dair- downward drop-kick
Aerials, well let’s have a look… I don’t quite get how the Double Arm Push is supposed to work, whether it damages or knocks back, or what. Actually, none of them have knockback, which combined with a lack of damage ratings makes it a little difficult for me to imagine his overall effectiveness.

B- Drop Bomb- Hold B 2 secs to hold, continuous holding pumps bomb. If B is pressed when maxium bombs are placed, the bombs would detonate simultaneously.
Drop Bomb is also written a little unclearly. Do you have to hold the button for two seconds before letting go to place the bomb? What happens if you let go early? I’d much prefer simply tapping to drop the bomb, with a two second gap or even a one second gap depending on the strength of the bombs before you can place another.

What’s the maximum number of bombs that can be placed? This would impact on how effective detonating them all at once is. Is it possible to detonate them prematurely? Do they explode if people touch them, or can they only explode once all are placed?

B<>-Bomb Kick/ Soccer Bomb -if a laid bomb is in front of him, Bomberman kicks it forward and it rolls until it hit something. If Bomberman is not in front of a bomb, Bomberman quickly lays a bomb any kicks it while flipping over (like a famous soccer move). It flies through the air quickly and explodes on contact.
BV- Suicide Bomb- Bomberman slams a bomb beneath his feet, quickly flinging him upward and causing slight damage to him. Causes major damage to neighboring enemies
B^- Bomber Copter- Bomberman bursts upward with propeller spinning above him. He is able to fly around freely for around 10 secs.
Christ. Ten seconds is a long time. That’d put his jump at around 4-5 stars, not the two you give him, even if he has short jumps normally. No mention of whether it does damage, how fast he moves like this, and whether you can do anything else while flying for those ten seconds, so I’m dubious about how the move would work.

The Suicide Bomb sounds a little more like a Down Smash than a regular Down B. Speaking of which, I don’t see any Smash Attacks at all, other than the Final Smash.

Grab- Standard two hand grab
Grab Attack- general headbutt
^ Throw- Throws opponent into air and quickly throws a bomb at them
> Throw- Straps bomb to and throws opponent forward
< Throw- Throws opponent behind Bomberman (that's it)
V Throw- Slams opponent on ground on which, they explode on impact.
The down throw is much like Suicide Bomb from the sounds of it. And Forward Throw is, incidentally, almost identical to my Forward Throw for Solid Snake. But then, I guess moves are limited for Bomberman. I mean, all he has are bombs.

Continued grievances with the lack of damage and knockback, but hey.

Final Smash-
Bomberman pumps a legendary Red Bomb to maximum size (around 2x the height of Bowser). Bomberman speed is greatly decreased and cannot jump when carrying the bomb. He is free to throw the bomb wherever he pleases, the bombs explosion radius affects everyone on the stage. Any player hit with the Bomb is instantly knocked off stage or is immobilized and dizzy (with stars flying around their head as in Bomberman 64).
Then, Bomberman jumps on the back of Pommy and rides around the stage with increased speed and jumping ability. He can drop as much as 10 bombs at one time and quickly as desired. Pommy is also able to attack opponents (i.e-biting). Duration: 15 secs.
Slightly powerful don’t you think? From what I can tell, it hits everyone on the stage, but probably not Bomberman himself. And a direct hit kills you almost surely. And aside from the fact that it WILL hit everyone, he can then ride on a beast, moving faster than normal, and do ridiculous levels of bomb-spam from the sounds of it. Cut out Pommy altogether and it’s a more acceptable Final Smash. If rather similar to Mario’s.


Item: Virus! (Skull from Bomberman 64)
-Fire- user spontaneously combusts and is on fire for around 10 secs. User can touch other players which temporarily lits them afire (5 secs). Does damage overtime to user.
-Big- user becomes larger, heavier, and stronger, but slower and much lower jump.
-Small- user becomes smaller, much higher jumps, and faster, but weaker and more easily knocked away.
-Jammed- user cannot stop moving but its able to change direction and jump. Speed increases over time.
-Reverse- all controller moves are reversed. Up is crouch, Down is jump, B is A, etc.
-Ghost- user cannot receive or use physical attacks. User can now hijack an opponent and semi-control them.
-Stun- User can barely move, but can take slightly more damage.
Not technically part of the moveset, but let’s have a look. Fire sounds kind of useless with Fire Flower already there, if it damages the user. Big sounds like the Super Mushroom of Melee, which could return anyway. Small is nearly the same as the poison/Tiny Mushroom… Jammed is somewhat interesting, but I don’t know why you’d want to use it. Not being able to stop could be messy, even if it does make you faster. Reverse is just a nasty thing. Ghost is fine with avoiding and being unable to perform physicals, but semi-controlling them is too much. And Stun just isn’t worth the risk it presents. Not a good item, in my opinion.

Entrance- Rides in on his pet, Pommy. Pommy runs away scared right before the battle starts.

Kirby- Standard pink Kirby but with Bomberman eyes ( | | ) and antennae.

Taunt: Celebrates as in Bomberman 64

Costumes- (similar to Clark's)
White Bomber
Black Bomber
Red Bomber
Blue Bomber
Gold Bomber

Winning Poses-
1.Does backflip and smiles as in Bomberman Hero.
2.Jumps and punches air above him while smiling.
Can Kirby attack the bombs he sets? The costumes are fine, and the poses are satisfactory.

Notes-
-Only 4 bombs can be placed on the field at once.
-Other Bombermen can kick other Bombermen's bombs.
-Any attacks upon a bomb would explode immediately.
-If Bomberman lands on one of his bombs he will do a low bounce. Pumped bombs give him higher bounces.
-All Virus effects (except Fire) has a chance to be passed on to an opponent. Opponents with higher health percentage have a higher chance of receiving the Virus. Its duration is restarted everytime it is passed on.


I'm sure this didn't change your mind about changing Bonk to good 'ol Bman, but hey, its worth a shot....
Okay, this answers some earlier questions, but I can’t be bothered editing what I said before. Eh, the clarifications do make the Special Attacks somewhat better, but I still think Virus is too complex and too much like a multitude of items to be bothered with.

Overall, 7/10. Not a bad effort. I’ll stick with the M-Man rather than the B-Man though.

SHEENA FUJIBAYASHI

- SHEENA FUJIBAYASHI -


Note the seal in her right hand. That's what she attacks with.
Dude, what an awesome character. I’m liking her, but I dunno about her chances. Lloyd just seems more likely. But females are always good. Especially magical ones. Nevertheless, let’s have a look at the moveset.

A Left flick of seal
A,A Left, right flick of seal
A,A,A Left, right, vertical arc of seal

> A Power Seal Pinion - Flicks out a seal and then spins around and attacks again.
V A Crouching low swipe of the seal.
^ A Diagonally up horizontal swipe of the seal.
Dash A Spins and slaps opponent with a backhand seal attack.

Smash
> A Pyre Seal - Flicks out a seal; if it hits, there's a huge explosion of seals. Long lag after use.
V A Spins in place, trailing a full "deck" of seals at a low angle. Hits all around her.
^ A Cyclone Seal - Flicks a seal above her head; if it hits, opponent spins into the air in a tiny cyclone that scatters into some seals.
Gah. No stats and no damage/knockback. I have no idea how much power she’s packing, her speed or how light. Meh. Let’s keep looking. Pyre Seal is cool. As is the Down Smash. Dunno about Cyclone Seal, but could be good to immobilize and attack. Depends on lag and the like though.

Aerial
A Force Seal - A burst of seals flies out from her body, hitting all sides.
> A Frontal downward swipe of her seal.
< A Backflip and swipe down with seal. (Meteor Smash)
V A Throws a couple seals down with a lot of force.
^ A Crosses a pair of seals over her head with an x-shaped swipe.
An omni-directional basic aerial attack? All I can say is that it better be a very weak attack. The other attacks are fairly good, I guess. I dunno if I like the down aerial, and it’s all starting to feel a bit same-y. So to rectify this, onto the Specials!

B Summon: Light - A small area around Sheena starts glowing. It slowly expands out to about two character lengths in both directions. When released, Luna appears and beams of light burst from the heavens, peppering the glowing area and damaging all nearby enemies. The light is stopped by the first ground it hits; if you're not near any ground, it fills the whole screen. (Meteor Smash)
> B Summon: Ice - Celsius appears and releases a pair of low ice beams that have a chance to freeze opponents.
V B Summon: Darkness - Shadow appears behind Sheena and spins in place, knocking away nearby foes.
^ B Summon: Wind - The Sylphs appear, circling Sheena and bearing her skywards for a few seconds before fading away.
Wow. Just wow. The basic B attack sounds like it has significant lag to start up, and is another omnidirectional assault. Huh. It’s just far too powerful for a basic attack, and also too slow. It doesn’t even sound charge optional like other long B attacks.

Ice is fine, as are Darkness and Wind. Does Wind do any damage, how far does it lift her?

Throw
A Slaps their face with a seal.
> Demon Seal - Pushes a seal against their chest and they fly back trailing seals.
< Pulls enemy behind her and then smacks them with a two-handed seal attack.
V Flips into the air slightly, then tosses a bunch of seals into the opponent's head.
^ Tosses them into the air with one hand and smacks them with a seal in the other.
More seals that don’t really do anything. A bit ho-hum by now… and I have no idea of her range or knockback, which is pretty much the most important aspect of throws.

Final Smash

Summon: Origin - Three diamons begin orbiting Sheena; after a second or two, Origin appears and unleashes massive damage to any enemies within the triangle's bounds.
-OR-
Summon: Birth - Maxwell appears, gestures towards the field and five meteors drop across the stage, hitting in quick succession from the left edge of the stage to the right.
Huh, randomized or something? Well, I’m fine with the Final Smash as it is. I like Origin better, cause there are already looking to be a few fiery hell bombing Final Smashes.

Taunt - Shrugs and shakes her head while saying "That's it? I was just getting started."

Kirby Hat - Bow around his midriff and Sheena's hair.

Victory Pose 1 - Puts a seal in front of her, and spins it with a finger. It floats there spinning as she says "Heh heh. Evil doesn't stand a chance."
Victory Pose 2 - Fans out a bunch of seals and fans herself with them, saying "Who's next?"
Victory Pose 3 - A little combo with her seals and then poses, saying "Regret messing with me? Well, it's too late now."

Yeah, yeah, pipe dream probably. But hey, as the not annoying lead female character of a Nintendo distributed and voice-acted (in the US at least) game with an upcoming spin-off? Great Namco representation right there!
Hrm. The B attack for her probably wouldn’t work well for Kirby. He’s too vulnerable to really be waiting for something to happen like Summon: Light. The taunt and poses are fine.

6/10 overall. But I might be being slightly harsh there.

HERO OF THE WIND/WINDWAKER LINK


BTW, here's my Wind Waker Link Moveset ~revised~

nB: Bow: Since I think Link's will be upgraded, WW Link should keep the old one. It should be the fire arrow still, and it should be able have less lag to pull out, for super spamming.

<B>: Boomerang: With Link getting the Gale Boomerang, and it probably is more of a damage racker than stun or impact move, I say WW Link's boomerang should be a good stunner, doing 20% less damage than Link's boomerang. It's stun is perfect for combos, and doing a full on spam charage against your enemy (simliar to Falco's laser, little damage, good impact for high comboability).
Okay, Fire Arrow, check. It’s fine. I dunno whether Arrow Spamming should be necessary, but if the damage is lower, I guess it’s okay.

As for Boomerang, I assume you mean it’s 4/5 as strong as Gale Boomerang, and not 20% damage percentage less, as that’d be in the minus range. And if you wanna spam the Arrows, I don’t think Boomerang should be spammable. It’d take to long to fly to the target and back to spam anyway. But stunning is good. Dunno about good impact (knockback?).

uB: Spin Attack: Spin Attack, Spin Attack, Spin Attack. We love the spin attack, it is a good move (though many overuse it, Link's is great for defensive positioning). It should stay similar to YLink's, being a damage racker, but it should do more damage, and at the end it does a good impact hit, with good stun. With that siad, it wouldn't be a KOable move, unless you get your opponent way up in the 700 percentile area! It can rack up to 17% or 18% damage.

Also, it would be neat is you could hold uB, you do the hurrican spin, with a insane amount of damage racking ability, but little impact and great stun to combo the hell out of your opponents. However, it takes 3 seconds to charge, and it can do up to 40% damage. The final spin slice does good impact and extremely godo stun, hitting your opponent far. However, if you miss the final slash, you'll be vulnerable (dizzy) for 3 seconds. You're vulnerable for 3 seconds even if you hit the final slash on the super spin attack, but the impact is good enough to keep your opponent trying to recover for over 3 seconds.

It is KOable on the light characters around 150%, and for the heaviest of characters around 190%. Hard to work, and it doesn't stop, unless you press B again. It's max time is 6 seconds (it goes insanley fast like MK's nA continual), and for 2 every second you do it, when you press B you're vulnerable (dizzy) for 1 second (2 frames=1 frame vulerable). If your opponent does any non-smash or strong/long range special attack on you and your sword hits it, you run through them.

Also, if your oppnent does a long range attack and hits your blade, you stop doing the spin attack 5 spins (1 spin=2%, and you do 4 spins per second), and then contiunes unless cancelled (in which you won't be vulnerable! . If your opponent does a smash attack or strong melee B attack, then WW Link does 3 less slashes, and you are vulnerable (though you can press Z to cancel). you can control which way you go doing this attack, and can jump (it's like a short hop) while doing this (you'll continue swinging), and it is controlled with the controll stick. Really in depth, lol!
The move just sounds too complex. Dizzyness is fine, but it sounds like it could be a beastly-broken move. And it sounds like it has pretty much unbeatable priority. Now, if this gave no recovery whatsoever and was merely a spinning attack, then I’d be okay with it. Probably.

As for charging the Spin Attack? It’s an interesting concept. Dunno if it would work, but an interesting concept.

Personally, I’d simply keep it like the original Spin Attack from 64. A brief slashing spin that propels you up and does moderate damage and impact.

dB: Bombs: The bombs returning would make WW Link the ultimate spam artillary character! With nB as the fast and chargeable decent damage and some shorter combos, <B> being the stunner and impact for all sorts of combos, the bombs should be the damage racker one. It would be diffrent from bombs in the past, doing 9% damage this time, and taking about 30% the time to pull out (I hate the lag). It does barely any impact (it couldn't even Ko someone at 999% damage most the time0, but it does good stun, and good damage.

Great for long range spamming, and this time WW Link can throw it farther on ground by a good margin over YLink, but just barely further than Y Link in terms of throwing it midair. This is my fav, giving WW Link the most spam attacks in the game, and that gives him so many options of approaching the opponent! Also, combined with WW Link's wavedashing (or wavelanding) (which is decent, about Fox's, if no a tad bit longer) and his shorthopping, he can do a good spam combo, like Falco's shorthop (with or without Wavedashing). Plus, the time to pull out the bombs can be done during wavedashing=options=YES!

Good for recovery, but I feel it is kinda unneccissary, since WW Link would already have the spin attack, and his hookshot and/or grapple hook. But hey, it would work, and you never know, but overall I think it would overpower WW Link, and we want the tiers as balanced as possible, so I'll hold back!

Sorry it is a bit long, but it is very detailed. Hope it's useful, and any comments on my list of WW Link's B moveset would be appreciated! O, and like L Cancel said, Wind Waker Link for Brawl (foos)!
Bomb spamming? No. The character shouldn’t have three types of spamming. Two at most. And bombs not having much knockback seems strange. It’s just overall better to have slower but more damaging mvoes with bomb-throwing, at least that’s how I feel. I don’t think high damage should be able to be rapidly dealt out in a projectile spammish way, especially not when you can blend it with projectile stunning spam and projectile impact spam. It’d just make him the ultimate long range character, and as you said, with wavedashing and shorthopping combos, he’d be at the very upper edge of high tier I fear.

Here, I'll make part of a A moveset:

A: slash downward 3%

AA:sdown slash, rising slash 5% (3%, 2%)

AAA:down slash, rising slash, horizontile (side up) slash 9% (3%, 2%, 4%)

A hold (previously A repeatiately push): same as AAA, but then crazy slashes liuke MK, going in the same order as AAA, but then the opposite side horizontile slash (side down), then the same thing but the other angle of horizontle slashes, then a sideways slash one way, and then another the opposite way, and then repeat.
So now he has unlimited close-range spam as well? No, just no. A, AA and AAA are fine, but the holding A thing is unnecessary and unfair.

running A: WW Link does a quick jump slash forward, most oftenly hitting the opponent's head or upper body (the A counter used against the Darknuts in WW). 7% Decent damage, small impact, and well above aveerage stun for rA attacks.

<A> smash: Jump Slash: Link does a jumping slash, and does good damage. It's basically A forward while in lock-on mode in all the 3D zeldas. In fact, it is exactly like that. 16%-24%. Very comboable, does good impact (good for combos, not KOs), and a bit above average stun.
Is it just me, or did you miss out the Forward A tilt? I thought that the smash was the tilt initially, and nearly gagged. It’s upper range is powerful for a little fellow like Hero of the Wind.

dAtilt: Link does a quick and ever powerful slash down. This does 12% damage, and does good damage, good impact, but only about 5 frames stun max. Good for racking damage, and is sorta like Fox's dAtilt in Melee, though isn't as good for KO'ing opponents.

dAsmash: Same as in Melee, a slash forward and back, but this time with more damaging swings. Each do 15%-23% damage, and does considerably good damage, good impact just enough to move away or to oponents, not really for Koing except in the 200%'s), and little stun.
Good Impact and not able to KO until 200% do not match. I remain confused as to the power of the attack. And two attacks at that damage rating are scary. Just the one slightly more powerful would be more suitable I think.

uAtilt: WW Link swings upward in a sideways upswing, doing small damage, but can be pressed (maybe held like the nA attacks now) for repeatided use. Does 3% damage, but can be repeated as a combo, and has average stun, some impact. After about 15%-20% they can break free (they can also break free before then), but this combo really only works when they are in the 0%-40% percentiles, or 50% for heavier characters. This move requires timing in the first slash, and knowing when to use it, when to stop using it, and how to combo after finishing using it. Perfect for WW Link IMO

uAsmash: This is where I begin to get more crafty! WW Link angles his body up, swings up in the air, 3 times in a stabbing motion, much like the dAair or uAair of Link's and YLink's. This can do anyhwere from 16% if all 3 are hit to 28% (4%-6%, 6%-10%, 6%-12%).

The first hit is the most comboable, and does just enough impact to make the opponent mid air or on ground to rise for the next slash, and stunned enough for the next slash. The 2nd slash is the weakness: it does more damage, does some impact, but barely enough stun to keep the enemy stunned for the final slash. Most the time the final slash will be slashed, and it does good damage, barely any stun outside of the character being hit up hard, and very KOable in terms of impact. If your opponent is at 170% it is basically a guarenteed a KO even with the heaviest of characters, at the lowest charged full uAsmash combo.
Another combo which, by the sounds of it, is highly powerful. Just barely long enough for the combo to go through? That does mean the attack will manage to go through regardless, and I don’t foresee this smash combo being broken often. Damage is good, though, and the impact is probably suitable, but I still remain a bit confused.

The Up Tilt seems reasonable though. Not sure if I like the continued combo applications. It’s starting to seem to me like if you get a good run with WW Link, you could spam and chain and spam and combo in a brutal continuous wave. But that might just be me.

nAair: WW Link does a swift stab, doing minimal damage (7%), little impact, and great stun. If you do this while shorthopping you can go combo-crazy into a sAtilt or sAsmash. A perfect air to land combo move, or land to air to land combo as well!

<A>air: WW Link slashes forward hard, doing a frongflip while still slashing. A good damage racker (does 14%), has little lag (5 frames), barely any stun (njk), great impact (very KOable in the 150%'s). Perfect for doing a one hit damage racker, KOing your opponent, or for just hitting your opponent to kill them while they try recoverying via air!

Also, it is great for distancing yourself from your opponent, and allowing you time to spam with your B moves! Can be used in many offensive and defensive ways! Think of it as a useful move in many fields, but keep in mind 5 frames can be the game, and timing is everything with this attack!

dAair: Swordplant: WW Link downthrusts his sword, into the ever famous swordplant formation/positioning! (how to kill Ganondorf: Stab him in the F***** head when he;s 10 times your size=this moment is screwattack.com's #1 in their top ten ways to die! XD) WW Link's stab normally does (17%) good damage, great stun, and some impact (especially if you do it 3 times). Here is where it gets intrstesting, in that this move can be comboed again and again, and again.

The 2nd time it does 14% damage (a tad bit above average), more (good) stun, and more (decent) impact, and the 3rd (and most often final), it does 13% damage (average), good stun, and barely any impact. Landing three is hard, and more than not you'll only get one, but you can land three every few matches. Also, continuing the swordplant isn't the only combo for this anymore. You can go and press A to cancel the swordplant fast, and combo/damage your opponent while their stunned.

This has just decent stun, and can be pretty intresting. You can attack and customize this attack in multiple ways and from multiple angles, a lot more so than YLink's or Link's in Melee or SSB64. It has noticeably less lag, and more comboability. Also, the DI control really kicks in. Holding down on the control stick makes you go down faster, and you can add 1%-3% more damage doing so, as well as very KOable impact (in the 140%'s the full down DI is basically a instant KO, though against good smashers you will never hit them this way).

If you click sideways on the control stick or more upwards, you can also cancel this attack, as well as with the A and Z buttons. This move is very useful, but not one to pull out. Also, the end lag (where you're sword is in the ground) is virtually 90% less, and allows you more time to move. Plus the DI and swordplany cancelling kicks in, for more help for WW Link from being a lag machine!
Grr. Somewhat better, but you ruin it by protecting WW Link from his own lag. Bad person. Bad. He needs weaknesses, and so far I’m not really seeing many. Maybe I’m misinterpreting the move, but is this ‘two or three times possible’ implying that WW Link plunges his sword into the ground, then has time to pull it out, jump up again and repeat the move before the opponent can recover? Sounds like too long to me.

uAair: Upplant or Upstab: Wind Waker Link stabs straight upwards with a very damaging stab. It does great damage (17%), below average stun, and only some impact. Great for being used when short hopping and your opponent is on a platform above you, jumped above you, you hit them up (whether they're stunned or not), or they simply jumped or are above you. Has only 6 frames pre-attack lag, and 2 frames post-attack lag.

If done correctly with shorthopping you could get three hits in, though unlikely. Good for individual damage, and some combos. A very all-around move to say the least that is good in air vs. ground (you) type of situations, whether it is done offensively or defnesively! Great for basically anything, though it should only be pulled out maybe 6 to 10 times per match preferably, but you never know what type of situation you'll be in, so it is kinda hard to judge how and when to use this attack IMO to be honest!
Meh, this is better than the other ones so far. It’s getting to be a long enough moveset that I don’t have anything mucht o say for this move.

grabs:

Grabbing opponent: Hookshot: Wind Waker Link shoots out his hookshot, and grabs opponent. If missed there are 6 frames of vulnerability, and 2 frames of pre-attack lag. If grab is successful, there are anyhwere from 2-10 frames of lag to pull them in. Know your distancing from them in this in FFA's or teams (epsecially teams), because you don't want to be vulnerable to other opponents.
Personally, I feel it should be the grappling hook rather than the hookshot. And if he’s unable to use it to recover, I’d be really happy.

Basic grab hits: Link holds his enemy with his hookshot, while he slashes up to down horizontily, down to up horizontily, and then the opposite of on each sides. 2% and 3%. (15-20 frames lag inbetween each hit)

Up throw: Wind Waker Link grabbing them with his hookshot pulls them in, aims them up, and stabs them. Does massive damage for a grab throw (10%), does well below average impact (just enough to escape), and barely any stun (3 frames=just enough to escape). More of a one hit move than comboable, but does good damage for racking up damage on enemies in the 50%-90% percentile ranges. (4 frames post-attack lag)

Down Throw: Wind Waker Link kciks them into the floor. Does well below average damage (5%), GREAT impact, decent stun, and best of all makes your opponent slam into the ground, and then slide off 6 or so feet. Intesting and origianal, and if you're quick you can use your dAair on them, and maybe pull off a combo if timed right, but that is something only the better players cna pull off, unless you're lucky! (3 frames post-attack lag)

Side Forward Throw: Wind Waker Link lets go of his opponent with his hookshot, and barely pushes them forward (doing no damage). Then he quickly slashes, and they get hit and fly back. Does above average damage (7%), does good impact for most grabs, and has little stun. It is more of a spacing, defensive, and spam attack preperation grab then anything else. More of a setup then a way to rack damage or combo your enemies! More of a situation grab than a use regulary grab, you gotta know/feel when to use this one!

Side Back Throw: This one is intresting, I have a good idea. Wind Waker Link kicks them back (0% damage) while holding them, and he does a backfilp, and as he releases them, he slashes forward and hits them good. Does average damage (7%), barely any impact (other than they hit the ground and bounce back up), and exellent stun. The perfect grab throw for conbos and insane customibility, for sure.

Sdie Up Throw: Wind Waker Link throws his opponent up in a sideways angle, and throws his boomerang at them. Does below average damage (5%), barely any impact (you won't even see it), and GREAT stun (though they are often too high up to combo). If you know how to work this, you can enter spam mode, then combo off that, and do good damage. A move that isn't useful unless you know how to be creative, unorthodox, and highly original!
The throws are the best part of WW Link so far, not so abusable and complex, and nicely balanced. Congratulations on the throws.

Z air: Link pulls out the grapple hook, and swings and smacks his opponent with it. Has lag (8 frames pre-attack, 4 frames post-attack), does very good damage (12%), does great stun, and does just barely any impact. Requires good timing, and if done short hoping or just above ground it's super comboable. However, in high air combat it isn't really comboable. But in air to land situations this move is perfect if you can time and deal with the lag. Something to work with, and get crazy and unorthodox with.

Also, like the Hookshot in Melee, the grapple hook can grab onto platforms and stages, but with less lag (8 frames to pull yourself in). It also has about 20% more range than Link's hookshot, a lot less lag, and just better all around. Great as a optional jump!
Whoa, what’s this move? I haven’t encountered a Z Air in any other moveset, nor can I clearly remember one from Melee. But it’s been a while. And, like I mentioned with the standard grab, I really dislike the idea of him being so good in the air, especially given his spam/comboability. I actually don’t think he should be able to use it to recover at all, but if he can, it should be slower and at a shorter range than link, not the other way around. The grappling hook doesn’t reel in like the Hookshot, after all.

Taunt: Link drinks a red potion, and it takes about 1 1/2 minutes [a bit below 90 frames].

Victory 1: Wind Waker Link does his famous dance. We all know what I mean!

Victory 2: Wind Waker Link grasps the Master Sword, and swings it around like he did the first time he got it.

Victory 3: Wind Waker Link does a super spin attack, and goes crazy with it, thus getting very dizzy, and he colapses. XD

Final Smash: Link gets his Wind Waker, and summons two tornadoes, both with the two wind frog gods in them. They tear apart the stage, like Ho-oh and Lugia, minus being a instant KO.

Edit: I redid the moveset, making only one option instead of tons, with a few new things at the end!
Erm, what’s with the taunt? 1 ½ minutes? That’s a huge taunt. Do you mean seconds?

And I don’t know what you mean by the Victory Dance. I dunno about the Final Smash, there’s not enough info on its effects to make a fair judgement.

Overall 6.5-7/10

DIDDY KONG

BTW, here is my Diddy Kong Moveset! ;) [also revised]

nB: Peanut Guns: Diddy fires them similar to Fox's blaster, but at Falco's blaster's speed, and 1 followed by another, then pause, 1 and then 1 (since he has two guns). This stuns the opponent, but for a short time only. Great for charging your opponents!

^B: Jet Pack: Diddy boosts up with his Jetpack, and then can control the DI much better, and can DI faster sideways, much like Peach's parasol. The damage is racked up by when the boost is hit, and he opponent is headbutted on the way up, or afterwards from the jetpack's engines.

<B> Chimp Charge: Straight from DK64, Diddy headbut charges forward, and can go shorter distances when B is pressed. It does a very high amount of damage, but doesn't pack much of a punch.

dB: Orange Gernade: Acting as sorta of Diddy's version of Link's bombs, Diddy ducks and throws them, or can simply fast toss them. Diddy pulls them out, and can do a array of things with them. For example, dB can be held for a harder throw, with more distance, and the gernades bounce and do more damage. Also, in air they are used exactly like Link's bombs, but fall much faster.

They generally do a fair amount of damage, and when combined with Diddy's guns it can be great spamability. Also, they generally bounce two or three times, but when charged they can go up to 5 or 6, and there explosion is fairly small, like Link's bombs. They have overall decent damage, stun, and knockback, and are all around good, but not overpowerful. Also, when hey hit something other than the ground (or the ground after X amount of bounce), they immediately explode.
You have a disturbing obsession with spam. Let me say that off the bat. Regardless, the Peanut Guns are nice, I like them, I imagine they do very low damage. The Barrel Jet Pack is also very nice. But Chimp Charge contradicts itself by saying it does lots of damage but doesn’t pack a punch. They pretty much mean the same thing in this context, unless I’m mistaken.

And how quickly can Diddy toss consecutive Orange Grenades? I hope not too fast, or the same thing is going to happen to him as to WW Link in my crits.

Running A: Cartwheel: Diddy Cartwheels into the opponent, doing a decently high amount of damage with little impact, but around average amount of stun.

dAtilt: Diddy swipes forward with his tail.

dA smash: Diddy clears the area, attacking in front and back with his tail, similar to Mario's dA smash, but with less damage, about the same impact and stun, and more range.

Auptilt: Diddy headbutts toward the sky.

Aupsmash: Diddy does a full charged hard hitting headbutt, that doesn't do as much damage as you would like, but has decent stun, and good impact.
So far, it’s looking good. Diddy’s making himself quick but not so powerful. I like it.

nA: Punch, kick, tail whip.

Asidesmash: Diddy raises his tail and tailwhips his opponent. This doesn't do as much damage as most would like, but the stun and impact are great!

Aupair: Diddy Flips and kicks his opponents with both feet, getting some impact, good stun, and a fair amount of damage.

<A>air: Diddy spins, damaging his opponents with his arms and tails. Has little impact and stun, but is a good damage racker!

dAair: Diddy straight headbutts his opponent, doing good damage, impact, and stun. However, it takes a bit to charge and launch this attack.

nA air: Diddy extends his knee and tail to hit his opponent. Does decent damage, impact, and stun, and if done towards the ground can be very comboable.
I’m assuming the Down Aerial is the Meteor Smash? Otherwise, solid, and nothing in particular to say here.

Grab: Diddy pulls in his opponents, using his tail.

Grab hits: Constant hjeadbutting of the opponent until thrown, they break free, or other fighters or something ends the grab.

<> Grab throw: Diddy whirls them out in his tail, doing little damage, but good stun and kinda good impact.

down Grab Throw: Diddy uses his tail, and thrashes his opponents down, doing good damage, greay impact, and some stun. However, they usually bounce into the air, ready for combat.

up Grab Throw: Diddy throws his opponent up with his arms. smacking them before released. Decent damage, some impact, and decent stun, but the real advantage is that this is bvery comboable.

up side Grab throw: Diddy grabs his opponent with his arms, chucks them Mario and Luigi style, and then shoots them. Does great damage, decent impact, and good stun. Definetly the best damage racking grab, outside of combos.
Again, the throws look quite fine. Dunno about Up Side Grab, but I’m willing to accept it. I like Diddy’s lithe style.

Z air: Like Link, Samus, and YLink, I felt Diddy deserved a Z air attack. Diddy whips his tail out, and smacks his opponent(s) downward hard. Does extremely great impact, well below average damage, and good stun. While lacking damage, this move can be effective for mid-air combos, or air to ground combos. When done right, this move can be a huge tactical advantage for the users.

Final Smash: Diddy pulls out his rock guitar, and starts playing his super awsome tunes! :)

Taunt: Diddy eats a banana. Not the best idea, any suggestions=??? That's all I could think of, lol! XD

Victory 1: Diddy does cartwheels, and does a double backflip with a big smile on his face.

Victory 2: Diddy takes off his hat, throws it up, smiles, scratches his head while eating a banana, and catches his head.

Victory 3: Diddy plays his guitar like a rockstar, and goes super rockstar at the end.

Victory 4: Diddy juggles 5 or 6 bananas happily, and squeezes them peels off them one by one while still juggling [and he eats the bananas iteslef], and then after eating all on them, and then leaps with joy.
Okay… so what does Final Smash actually do? I can’t rate it when I don’t know what it does. Also, no stats at the start makes it hard for me to make starting judgements. But the best character so far.

8/10

WALUIGI

Waluigi Moveset-

Standard Attacks:
A- Jab
AA- Jab Jab
AAA- Jab Jab Knee

Tilts:
Dtilt- Leg Sweep
Utilt- Headbutt
Ftilt- Mid range Kick

Smash Attacks:
Dsmash- Breakdance(like Mario or Luigi)
Usmash- Kicks one leg above his head(frontward kick)
Fsmash- A huge punch like Mario's from 64


Right, the regular attacks. Well… I can’t make any real qualitative judgment, as I have no idea of the attack powers, his range, or any of these sort of things. I mean, as far as move animations go, they sound fine, but I don’t know how effective they are, which is the key point.

Aerial Attacks:
Dair- Pencil stance and spins(Like Falco's but in a stiff stance)
Nair- Split kick(both legs spread out as a split and he kicks)
Bair- Backwards Headbutt
Fair- Double Knee(you thought C.Falcon was good)
Okay, I can visualize all the moves, but I have the same problem of not knowing anything empirical about Waluigi’s stats in this moveset, and so I can’t make any judgment.

Special Attacks:
Down B- He can pull out a bomb or something...(like Link's)
Up B- Rapidly moves his legs to appear as running in the air
Side B- Running Phantasm
Aww… the Special Attacks was where I was hoping you’d be a bit more creative. But really, it’s the same issues all over again. But I’ll just say one thing. I’m sick of bombs. 3 out of the 5 characters I’ve critiqued in this post use them. Four, if you count Diddy’s Orange Grenades. Bah! And I don’t get what Running Phantasm is at all…

Recovery:
First jump- Like Luigi's but can get more vertical
Second Jump- Like Mario's
Up B recovery- Rapidly Moves legs to appears as running in air

Grabs:
Grab attack- Punches them in the face
Grab Dthrow- Throws them down and pummels his foot on them
Grab Uthrow- Throws him up with one hand
Grab Fthrow- Holds them out and pummels his foot in there gut
Grab Bthrow- Tosses them back then kicks them
Eh, rinse and repeat my previous comments, but I do like that Waluigi’s a very brutal unarmed fighter for the most part. How good is the recovery? Does it do any damage?

Weight:
Probably a little more than Mario's weight

Taunt:
He sticks his thumb out while his teeth sparkle with a grin and has a bomb in his hand. The bomb blows up and makes him turn black and stuff with the smoke.

Final Smash:
He takes out a whole buch of Bomb-ombs and they frantically run around. They run into each other and combine to a huge Bomb-omb and Waluigi gives that laugh of his. Bomb-omb will be place in the middle of the stage(or wherever...depending on stage)Waluigi will set the fuse, and make an extreme jump. The bomb blows hitting anything within its radius then Waluigi jumps down, sticks his thumb out to the screen with a smirk on his face. His teeth then sparkle.

If I missed anything, please tell me. Waluigi can work. I made a Tingle and Waluigi moveset...that is hard to do!
PS- I had to make it purple.
Wow… I’m getting Bomberman flashbacks with this Final Smash. But I think Waluigi was posted first, so it’s okay. Erm… same-samey? Kinda like Mario’’s Final Smash, but it’s reasonable.

6/10, cause it’s easy on the eyes.

ISAAC

A new challenger approaches…



Isaac

Potential moveset by O D I N:

Height: 2/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Power: 3/5
Grab Range: 1/5
Running Speed: 3/5
Jump: 2/5
Falling Speed: 3/5
Rolling Speed: 4/5


“A” Moves:

A: Isaac makes a quick slash with his sword in front of him. The move can be used as a rapid jabbing attack. It is faster than Marth’s, but slower than Capt. Falcon’s.

F-tilt: Isaac performs a long, horizontal slash in front of him. Decent knockback, average damage.
U-tilt: Isaac swings his sword over his head, drawing across his body from back to front. The attack is strongest on the down swing, but has decent knockback when the attack hits above his body.
D-tilt: Isaac slams the ground in front of him, causing a minor tremor, and ripples the ground making rocks shoot out of the ground slightly. The foe trips. Little knockback, decent damage.
I assume Isaac can repeat his slashes as AA and AAA?

In any case, though there’s no damage rating, the descriptions are good and solid. I especially like D-Tilt, has a nice atmosphere to it.

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Isaac crouches low. After the charge, Isaac lunges forward with a horizontal sweep. Strong knockback, very laggy after the hit. No follow up.
Up Smash: Isaac, brings his arms close to his body. After the charge, Isaac throws his arms up in the air, and rocks from the ground fly upward a short distance. The rocks do decent damage, but little knockback. Great for aerial counters.
Down Smash: Isaac brings his arms close to his body again, this time, looking at the ground. After the charge, Isaac slams his fists into the ground, causing a stronger tremor around his body. The area of effect is within a “foot and a half” of his body. The tremor is only slightly lower than Isaac’s height. Strong attack, decent knockback at an upward angle.
Okay, let’s see, Smash Attacks…

Forward is good. Good knockback and lag. I like it.
Up Smash is interesting, multiple hits but lower damages? Again, I like.
Down Smash… is cool. Earthquakes FTW.

No real suggestions here.

Aerials:

Nair: Isaac performs a flip in midair, bringing his sword in front of him. This attack is quick, little knockback, and has an attack radius from above his head (first frame) to behind him (last frame before leveling out). It’s a 180 degree attack range.
Fair: Isaac does a horizontal slash at slightly lower angle to his body. It’s a quick slash with good knockback and damage.
Uair: Isaac does a spin in the air, the sword held above him at an angle. The spin is one rotation, and his Isaac’s faster aerial. Damage is based on multiple hits, a max of 3. First frame of the attack, part two of the spin, and the last frame.
Dair: Isaac kicks twice with his feet beneath him. 2 hits max. No knockback on the first hit, the second hit is a meteor smash. Low damage.
U air is weird, but I can live with it. Dair looks kinda familiar, but a multi-kick meteor is cool. The other moves are fine too. But I demand more psynergy!

“B” Moves:

B : Venus Djinn
Isaac summons a Venus Djinn to hurl a rock at his opponent. The rock will do 3-7% damage, knockback is average. Can be spammed, but it works like Falco’s laser. There’s lag between each throw. Same throw when in the air.

Towards B: Mars Djinn
Isaac summons a Mars Djinn to breathe fire upon his opponents. The attack works like a fire flower. It lasts for a few seconds, and then the Djinn disappears, the fire gradually getting smaller with each breath.
Hrm, is there a beginning lag for Venus, since he has to summon the Djinn each time? I like that it’s a slower-use projectile.

As for Forwards B, it’s fine, I think. Everyone loves a free Fire Flower.

Down B: Mercury Djinn
Isaac summons a Djinn to create a ice wall in front of him. This ice wall can be used to stand on, jump on, and can be picked up by stronger characters. It can be shattered after 20% damage has been done to it (based on characters, I.e. DK should have no problem shattering it). If an opponent is in front of Isaac while using this, the pillar causes some damage and knockback. While in the air, Isaac can use this to create a small sheet of ice beneath him, that floats in the air long enough (not long, like a second. It floats glowing as if it was just created) for Isaac (and other characters) to use a footstool jump off of it. After the move has been used, it takes 10 seconds before it can be used again, as it requires a lot of Psynergy to use, since Isaac is an Earth Adept. When attempted to be used after the first time, Isaac creates a splash of water, causing no damage, no knockback, and doesn’t effect the foe at all.

Up B: Jupiter Djinn
Isaac summons the Jupiter Djinn to propel him a large distance in any direction. The move’s range is farther than Falco’s, but shorter than Fox’s. It’s fast, and has no charge time. However, it deals no damage, and no knockback. It has low priority, so Isaac can be knocked out of it easily.
Wow, dude, Mercury is so useful. And he has multiple recovery moves! Freakishly cool in this situation. I love that Mercury Djinn.

Jupiter Djinn is also satisfactory, especially since it deals no damage and has low priority. A good mix of pros and cons on recoveries and jumps for Isaac.


Final Smash: Grand Gaia
Isaac raises his arms into the air, the stage/arena shaking. The stage erupts with flying rocks and light pouring from the ground, dealing massive damage. Each rock counts as a hit, so it'll deal damage on a multiple hit level, rather than a one time massive damage hit. The range of the attack is based upon the size of the stage, not the screen.
Does this only hit characters on the ground? I like it in any case, but only hitting characters on the ground is cool, if a noticeable weakness.

Grabs:
Isaac reaches out with both arms, and grabs his opponent. His reach is short.

Jab:
Isaac knees his opponent.

Fthrow:
Isaac shoves his opponent forward with both arms. Average knockback, average damage.

Uthrow:
Since Isaac is so tiny, and doesn’t have a lot of arm strength, Isaac uses his magic to use the ground as launcher. The ground beneath his opponent shoots up as a pillar of earth, propelling the opponent into the air. High knockback, decent damage. The pillar disappears after the throw.

Dthrow: Isaac shoves his foe to the ground, and pops him in the face 3 times. Multiple hitter, for 2-3% each hit. After the punches, the opponent slides forward from the 3rd hit, which is much like an uppercut, only horizontal. Low knockback. Damage is average. Highest damage out of throws, due to multiple hits.

Bthrow: Isaac uses his Psynergy to grab his opponent, and chuck him backwards. Highest knockback out of the throws.
Uthrow is awesome, I think. Kinda reminds me of Kirby’s 64 Uthrow. I dunno why though.

D throw is also good, multiple strike throws are cool.

Taunt: Isaac looks around him as the 4 Djinnii(?)(can’t remember what was plural and singular) dance about him quickly, and then quickly vanish.

Winning pose #1: Isaac sheaths his swords, and pants heavily, looking at the screen with a tired face.

Winning pose#2: Isaac looks around him as the Djinnii Swirl around him. The Djinnii and Isaac look at the screen, Isaac has a smile.

Winning pose#3: Isaac lowers his arms, and raises them high into the air, with a few rocks circling around him.
Yay! Isaac was definitely awesome. 9/10 for him, for sure. Good job ODIN.

And my Wall of Pain is over… Thank God.
 

O D I N

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
7,408
Location
GameAngel64's house, getting my @#% handed to me.
3DS FC
4098-3123-8629


^^^
This shot right here... makes me wanna play Ike... And might make me okay with Ganondorf having a sword.... :-X EGADS!!! WHAT HAVE I SAID?!







My thought, is that it says this...



Which leads me to believe he might be an unlockable character. :shrug:

More to come later, i.e. a wall of pain, edit's to the Isaac moveset (thanks for the read Mendez), and discussion on this new char.

TO WORK!!!
 

beta_prime

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
218
@Odin I think the warning thing will be there for every new character announced. I always thought that Ike would be unlockable anyway.
 

OysterMeister

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
436
Location
Right here with you... in your heart.
Well, it's been a few days since my last post, and I can see I'm already WAAY behind. This thread just moves so fast.

Anyway, this is addressed to Wiseguy: you called it. Although I've had no doubts that Ike was going to be in Brawl, I'll admit that I was sure he wasn't going to be the 6th new character revealed. I thought Olimar was a dead ringer for 6th place, but hey...
I don't know how you guessed Ike, but whatever line of logic you followed must've worked.

Still, that said, I've no doubt that Marth will be a returning character, and I'll eat my own shoe if he doesn't.
Actually, that sounds like a bad idea, I like my shoes.... Okay, it's settled, I'll eat your shoe if Marth isn't in.

Edit: Hey, I just remembered to check. The Fire Emblem symbol? It's still Marth's sword.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
^^Marth semi confirmed?

If the symbol is still his sword then that really ups his chances for being in the game.

Can you put Marth on your list while you changing Ike's status to confirmed? I think his chances are much more than 50% don't you.
 

Ridley FTB!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
1,330
Location
Silently stalking Samus....
A new stage?

I have an idea for a new stage
Super Mario 64

Start:You start on a simple platform out side the castle but then a flash of light appears while only chrarcters,items and the platfrom ans solid.

Part 1:Suddenly the backgrounds changes and you see King bobombs level. Four platforms appear going around the stage while the the main platfrom flys around the island.Sometimes the King make an apearance and throws bombs after a while another light appears.

Part 2:The backgrounds changes again to the second level whomps fortress this time no platforms but the main which is flying around the island. Every so often whomps(long ones)mold themselves out of the ground and walk towards the edge and fall off but if you get in the way they will crush you.The the light appears.

Part 3:The background is a still image of the first water level showing you the boat at the bottom of the level.Every so ofter canonballs are shot from the boat to the screen and must be avoided, thwn an appearance of the eel who swoops arcross the battle field going kleft to right or towards it from the boat.also there is two platforms that stay still.The only way to die here is by being chucked of the screen left or right or above.Another light appears.

Part 4:The snow level as such flys around the race track watching mario and the penguin race thoguh if mario is in the fight the mario on the slides costume changes.

Part 5:Again like the slide you are watching mario and bowser fight(the ballte scene does not stay the same it chooses 1 from 20 different battle scenes)

Part 6:Bug boos haunt will be fought at the top where boos will appear attaking players the can only be destroyed by jumping on the.An 20% chance big boo will appear and teleport u to a random part and carries you on from there.

Part 7:The molten lava land level if similar to the metroid levels though bullies appear and push players pff the edge.

Part 8: There is 1 platform in the middle that has sand coming down it if you jump into it u will be slowed down an appearance of the two rock hands and act like 2master hands.

Part 9:the level is turned into a maze where certen part of it are posione.The maze is a time were you cannot be knocked off the screen so damaged your enemies quikly.This maze is vertical on the screen so the game play stays the same.

Part 10: You are aboard bowsers sub fighting it out even the mast of it is solid so you can only be thrown to the right>

Part 11:The sams as part 5 though it is the second bowser fight.

Part 12:50%change large 50%percent small.if small you are inw wrigglers cave where wrigglers will attack only a single player(unlucky)below you can see mario gettint the red coins(10 different clips of mario getting the coins)if large u fightin on a random side of the island

Part 13:second snowman level.The snowmans head is on the right of the screen blowing out air the battle is hard becuase of this so u must always be running towards the head.if a heavy character though u can move freely so watch out light weights.

Part 14:The clock level is weird because the hand is coming into the stage and out plus the thwomp from above will fall as well if thats not enough the battle changes from fast to slow.there is two platforms.

Part 15:similar to ssbm rainbow ride but less of the boats riding.

Part 16:Like the other bowser levels.

Extra things to says.In every course mario will be in the background doing his 'thing'(20 different clips on each level)

The platforms are set to the level.

Start:platform is made of bricks ina similar pattern to the castel.
Part 1:Averge green grass and ground
Part 2:Made of whomps(the long ones)
Part 3:A watery effect
Part 4:Ice and blue ground
Part 5:Basic simialr to platform bowser and mario are fighting on.
Part 6:This battle is fought on the houses roff top.
Part 7:Lava looking effect.
Part 8:Made of bricks similar to pyrimid.
Part 9:the maze walls are brown wall clour with moss effect.
Part 10:Battled on sub.
Part 11:Similar to the platform bowser and mario are fighting on.
Part 12:small:similar to the floor that wriggler walks on(metal frames)
LARGE:fight on random aprt of the island
Part 13:snowy look instaed of dark caverns effect like last snowy level.
Part 14:The paltform is made of clock parts which are still working
Part 15:similar to ssbm
Part 16:Like other bowse levels

All part have been renderd to ssbb graphics

i hope u like it
 

PrettyGoodYear

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
1,792
Location
Panama, Panama, Central America...
Ike looks awesome, I'll definitely give him a shot... and taking out the icon, I'm not sure what Marth's chances are...

BTW, Maybe they revealed Ike for series represantation? If that's the case, that would hurt Marth's chances...
 

OysterMeister

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
436
Location
Right here with you... in your heart.
I wonder if Ike's going to be the slow swordie. He said that He uses a two handed sword with one hand, so maybe it takes him longer to swing it....
Well, truth be told, Ike sounds like he's got a few things in common with Roy. They both wield a two handed sword in one hand, and apparently Ike has his Aether to match Roy's flare blade....
So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Ike will probably share a few traits with Roy, such as speed, strength, and killing potential, but will still have is own unique moveset. He seems like he's not really a replacement of Roy, just a character with a few similar themes.
 

O D I N

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
7,408
Location
GameAngel64's house, getting my @#% handed to me.
3DS FC
4098-3123-8629
Re-Edit, COMPLETE!!


((Couldn't resist. :chuckle:))



Isaac

Potential moveset by O D I N:

Height: 2/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Power: 3/5
Grab Range: 2/5
Running Speed: 3/5
Jump: 3/5
Falling Speed: 3/5


“A” Moves:

A: Isaac makes a quick slash with his sword in front of him. The move can be used as a rapid jabbing attack. It is faster than Marth’s, but slower than Roy's. The attack is similiar to Marth's current A attack.

F-tilt: Isaac performs a long, horizontal slash in front of him. Decent knockback, average damage.
U-tilt: Isaac swings his sword over his head, drawing across his body from back to front. The attack is strongest on the down swing, but has decent knockback when the attack hits above his body.
D-tilt: Isaac slams the ground in front of him with his palm, causing a minor tremor, and ripples the ground making rocks shoot out of the ground slightly. The foe trips. Little knockback, decent damage.

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Isaac crouches low. After the charge, Isaac lunges forward with a horizontal sweep. Strong knockback, very laggy after the hit. No follow up.
Up Smash: Isaac, brings his arms close to his body. After the charge, Isaac throws his arms up in the air, and rocks from the ground fly upward a short distance. The rocks do decent damage, but little knockback. Great for aerial counters.
Down Smash: Isaac brings his arms close to his body again, this time, looking at the ground. After the charge, Isaac slams his fists into the ground, causing a stronger tremor around his body. The area of effect is within a “foot and a half” of his body. The tremor is only slightly lower than Isaac’s height. Strong attack, decent knockback at an upward angle.

Aerials:

Nair: Isaac performs a flip in midair, bringing his sword in front of him. This attack is quick, little knockback, and has an attack radius from above his head (first frame) to behind him (last frame before leveling out). It’s a 180 degree attack range.
Fair: Isaac does a horizontal slash at slightly lower angle to his body. It’s a quick slash with good knockback and damage (Edit: Fair and Bair are the same. This attack will turn Isaac around).
Uair: Isaac raises his arm above him, using Psynergy to smack his opponent from below (think bowser Uair, only better range). The move is slow, and laggy, but has excellent range and knockback
Dair: Isaac kicks twice with his feet beneath him. 2 hits max. No knockback on the first hit, the second hit is a meteor smash. Low damage.

“B” Moves:

B : Venus Djinn
Isaac summons a Venus Djinn to fire a rock at his opponent. The rock will do 3-5% damage, knockback is average. Can be spammed, but it works like Falco’s laser, and has a projectory like it as well. There’s lag between each blast. Same projectory when in the air.

Towards B: Mars Djinn
Isaac summons a Mars Djinn to breathe fire upon his opponents. The Djinn stays in the spot it was summoned. The attack works like a fire flower. It lasts for a few seconds, and then the Djinn disappears, the fire gradually getting smaller with each breath. Isaac can't summon the Mars Djinn for about 4 seconds, as to prevent spamming (he's basically a pokeball).

Down B: Mercury Djinn
Isaac summons a Djinn to create a ice wall in front of him. This ice wall can be used to stand on, jump on, and can be picked up by stronger characters. It can be shattered after 20% damage has been done to it (based on characters, I.e. DK should have no problem shattering it). If an opponent is in front of Isaac while using this, the pillar causes some damage and knockback. While in the air, Isaac can use this to create a small sheet of ice beneath him, that floats in the air long enough (not long, like a second. It floats glowing as if it was just created) for Isaac (and other characters) to use a footstool jump off of it. After the move has been used, it takes 10 seconds before it can be used again, as it requires a lot of Psynergy to use, since Isaac is an Earth Adept. When attempted to be used after the first time, Isaac creates a splash of water, causing no damage, no knockback, and doesn’t effect the foe at all.

Up B: Jupiter Djinn
Isaac summons the Jupiter Djinn to propel him a large distance in any direction. The move’s range is farther than Falco’s, but shorter than Fox’s. It’s fast, and has no charge time. However, it deals no damage, and no knockback. It has low priority, so Isaac can be knocked out of it easily.


Final Smash: Grand Gaia
Isaac raises his arms into the air, the stage/arena shaking. The stage erupts with flying rocks and light pouring from the ground, dealing massive damage. Each rock counts as a hit, so it'll deal damage on a multiple hit level, rather than a one time massive damage hit. The range of the attack is based upon the size of the stage, not the screen. Also, the most damage is closest to the ground. The mid stage area (example: between the platforms on battlefield) is the weakest. Anything above the mid stage area is unaffected.

Grabs:
Isaac reaches out with both arms, and grabs his opponent. His reach is short.

Jab:
Isaac knees his opponent.

Fthrow:
Isaac shoves his opponent forward with both arms. Average knockback, average damage.

Uthrow:
Since Isaac is so tiny, and doesn’t have a lot of arm strength, Isaac uses his magic to use the ground as launcher. The ground beneath his opponent shoots up as a pillar of earth, propelling the opponent into the air. High knockback, decent damage. The pillar disappears after the throw.

Dthrow: Isaac shoves his foe to the ground, and pops him in the face 3 times. Multiple hitter, for 2-3% each hit. After the punches, the opponent slides forward from the 3rd hit, which is much like an uppercut, only horizontal. Low knockback. Damage is average. Highest damage out of throws, due to multiple hits.

Bthrow: Isaac uses his Psynergy to grab his opponent, and chuck him backwards. Highest knockback out of the throws.

Taunt: Isaac looks around him as the 4 Djinnii(?)(can’t remember what was plural and singular) dance about him quickly, and then quickly vanish.

Winning pose #1: Isaac sheaths his sword, and pants heavily, looking at the screen with a tired face.

Winning pose#2: Isaac looks around him as the Djinnii Swirl around him. The Djinnii and Isaac look at the screen, Isaac has a smile.

Winning pose#3: Isaac lowers his arms, and raises them high into the air, with a few rocks circling around him.



I will now be wall of pain-ing. Check back for more details.

And I think I might make the Dante for Brawl thread... >_> I dunno. I think I want a little more feed back on that. If you need me to repeat my reasons why he has a shot, check back with me.
 

Chibirobo

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
818
Ike seems really cool,probably the coolest(visually) sword-wielder so far! So,does help or hurt Marth and Roy's chances?

Does anyone thinks he's a starter or unlockable?
 

O D I N

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
7,408
Location
GameAngel64's house, getting my @#% handed to me.
3DS FC
4098-3123-8629
Ike seems really cool,probably the coolest(visually) sword-wielder so far! So,does help or hurt Marth and Roy's chances?

Does anyone thinks he's a starter or unlockable?
Well... They ARE using the FE symbol from Melee. So it's possible that Marth could return.

But it's also possible they're justing using the symbol from Melee.

This does however boost the Black Knight's chances of getting into Brawl, seeing as how they were in the same game.

Thoughts on animal crossing: Did anyone ever consider Copper to be a PC? >_>
 

LukeFonFabre

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
1,094
Well, I think I said earlier that if Ike was revealed before Marth, then it would probably mean that Marth isn't returning. Now that it's happened though, I'm actually not as confident about it, largely for 2 reasons.

1. Warning! Challenger Approaching! Granted, this could mean two things. That Ike is simply a new character and Sakurai is having a bit of fun with us (mindgamed again XD). It could however mean that Ike is an unlockable character, seeing as that's the phrase that pops up whenever a secret character is found. If Ike is unlockable, then it suggests that he's not the FE representative, as I'm fairly certain that FE will get a character on the starting roster, and if it's not ike, it most likely would be Marth.

The problem with this is that we have nothing conclusive that Ike is unlockable, and part of me strongly doubts it, as not only is he the first Fe rep shown on the website in any shape or form, there's still quite a bit of time before the game is released that releasing an unlockable character at this point is very strange. And because Ike is the first FE character revealed, coming before several veteran characters from SSb, Melee and Metaknight, there definitely is a case for Ike being on the starting roster.

2. The other point is the symbol. What made me less confident about Ike being the FE rep this time is that the FE symbol is still Marth's falchion blade, and i kind of expected it to change to the ragnell. Still, it could be that Sakurai is being lazy or reluctant to change it rather than update it to represent the current main Lord, not to mention the Falchion was the first Fe legendary sword and was used alongside the Fire Emblem itself, so it still has significance to the franchise even without Marth. Still, I think it would be odd for it to still be the symbol if the character who uses it is absent this time around, though I wouldn't say it guarantees Marth's return.

At the moment, common sense tells me that while Marth shouldn't be disregarded yet, I think he has taken a blow as far as his chances of returning are concerned. Guess we'll have to wait for the moment regarding Marth's return.

Still, Ike>Marth so if Ike is all we can expect for blue haired swordsman action then I'm not complaining.
 

O D I N

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
7,408
Location
GameAngel64's house, getting my @#% handed to me.
3DS FC
4098-3123-8629
I like Ike a lot more than Marth. Not that I ever played Marth's game, but still.

I think I should pick up FE:poR again this weekend. Never finished it.

Along with COUNTLESS other games I own; Metroid Prime 1&2, DMC3 (game is effin hard), Disgaea, FF12, the list goes on.
 

dantemasta

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
128
I still think the hardest DMC game was DMC 2 Dante's story not the chick's. Anyways, I'm pretty sure Marth is getting the boot, and Ike is there to replace. I'm figuring that the Black Knight will make an apperance and something tells me he is going to be HUGE. Why? Because though I've never played the game from the pictures I've seen I picture a huge black suit of armor. With a Cloud sized sword, so he'd probably be slow heavy and a real heavy hitter.

On a completely different note, I've always wondered. What if they made King Dedede a really heavy character with weak attacks? I never really saw him as that strong, but ya never know.
 

Archyp Cosh

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
10
Another huge post, huzzah.

Archyp Cosh, nice counter-arguments as well!

As of right now, we don't know if the SSBB team has a "15 minutes of fame" mentality (if a character isn't really needed, like Falco, ICs, G&W etc., he's removed/replaced) for character selection or "veterans are important" mentality. My view is that for the most part, "veterans are important" and characters like Falco, Ness, and the retro characters will return. I could easily be wrong, and more characters will be replaced/removed than I anticipated. I think that the SSBB team's mentality will become clearer in a month or two once we see wha other characters the site confirms or deconfirms.
Thanks!

This is most certainly true. Unfortunately, we can only make guesses at this point. I may have a slight bias against Falco...:ohwell: I think I'll update the list, and put Falco back in. Veterancy may just be the thing pushing Falco over Wolf, and I'm just about willing to accept that.


Wario has two series of his own: Wario Land and WarioWare. I'm not that familiar with either, but I'm pretty sure Wario and Syrup are the only viable reps from the former and there aren't any standouts from the latter. Syrup isn't exactly a recognizable, notable character, nor is she significant in the grand scheme of things. For WW, no character really has significance over any other as none of them really stand out. Wario will certainly to be wacky enough to fully represent WarioWare on his own. Besides, the WW characters seem like AT material, if anything. What better represents a game full of 5-second minigames than a quick 5-second AT appearance in a game? In addition, I'd rather see more deserving characters from franchises that would otherwise go unrepresented. I'd much prefer Golden Sun or Tales of Symphonia representation than some insignificant WarioWare character.
Oh come on, Jimmy T. doesn't stand out?! Now that you mention it, the overarching theme of Warioware does seem to be...an inordinate amount of wackiness that can be solely contained in Brawl by Wario and his Waft. I still think Mona would fit pretty well with her diverse temp job listings (Pizza delivery, waitress, cheerleader, etc.) and gives Wario a Peach-like love interest. I added Captain Syrup solely because I've seen people actually recommend her, which means she must be at least VAGUELY memorable.

If Sakurai cuts Ness for Lucas, he's going to confuse the 99% of people who have never heard of Lucas because his game was never released outside Japan, and the series is so niche that enough people probably still don't know who Ness is anyway. Also, besides being newer (as if that actually mattered), what does make Lucas more deserving than Ness? Regarding the Mother series overall, I think the team will treat it as only a little above retro status, as I don't think Nintendo really cares about the series much more than Ice Climber, Kid Icarus, or other retro games. Ness will stay as the notable veteran retro character, but Mother will still get one slot only, like the other retro games. I don't entirely agree than all the established characters from the first game (I'm assuming that's what you meant) deserve one more rep. DK deserves Diddy, but I feel that Mother deserves just one, but maaayyyybeee two, and F-Zero deserves just one, but maaayyybeee two (all the others, Yoshi excepted as an extension of Mario, have gotten more rep). Neither is really significant enough. If anything, other non-represented series need more exposure over Mother. I'd much prefer Golden Sun or Tales of Symphonia representation than some insignificant WarioWare additional Mother character.
The only thing I see making Lucas more deserving than Ness, since I agree with you on NEWER != BETTER CHANCE, is that Sakurai wants him. I could almost see having both Ness AND Lucas, but they basically look the same and would have almost entirely the same moves. Yeah, I did mean established characters from the halcyon days of Smash Bros 64. I dunno about F-Zero though, I'm not that well-versed in it. I don't know if the "really significant enough" is a good enough reason, because that can easily be levelled against both ToS and Golden Sun...curses. I think I'll drop F-Zero's new character, because Goroh getting AT'd kinda left me at a loss for a new possible racer there. And add in Isaac. Are you happy now?! ;)

Touché! I'm not familiar enough with the series, but do any characters really stand out and are significant over any other characters? They all seem rather similar or otherwise unnotable. It really doesn't matter how many games the series has if none of the characters are all that distinct. The FE choices for Melee seemed arbitrary enough; Marth because he was the first, and Roy because he was the latest. If that was the main criteria, does the series need any more? FE is popular enough and significant enough for two characters, certainly, but does it really need/deserve a third rep, and does it really have three reps that could solidly represent the franchise in a way that just two couldn't? (I ask this way not because I already think it's undeserving, but because I don't really know enough about it or its characters to know if it's deserving or not). Besides, I'd much prefer Golden Sun or Tales of Symphonia representation than some insignificant WarioWare additional Mother copy+pasted FE swordsman character.
Unfortunately, I probably didn't do a particularly good job of showing a good cross-section of Fire Emblem's varied units because of bias towards the main Lords. There's always the spear-wielders, like post upgrade Eliwood, Ephraim, or a Pegasus Knight like Florina, or axe-users, like Dorcas, Hector or Hawkeye. Hmm, this sounds a bit like rambling...the point is that there are other choices there, I just felt these would be the most likely. If it sounds better, Lyndis has a completely different swordstyle based around mobility, rapid strikes, and bows than Ike's slow powerhouse "two-hander in one hand". And Marth operates in the realms of regular swordplay, whereas Lyn has crazy teleportation moves and clone-spawning critical antics. Plus, with the advent of Path of Radiance, skills were returned to the game, giving Ike all sorts of wacky moves like Aether and Smite to play with in his moveset. With a little effort, despite their similar armament, even just the Lords can be represented in Brawl as completely different. As for does it need three reps to represent the series for solid representation in a way two can't, probably not, but it CAN do it. Just replace Lyn with Hector and Marth with Ephraim, if the variance in speed and style isn't enough. BAM! Two entirely new movesets, one around an axe and one around a spear.

That's a pretty fun moveset you have there. (I was never all that great with Sheena in ToS since I mained Zelos [or when avaliable, Kratos; I always go for the Zelos/good ending] and usually played as Presea or Collette otherwise, so I never figured out how best to fight with her) I'd equally like Raine, Sheena, or Kratos as ToS representation. As much as I like Zelos, I don't think I could stand him in SSBB. Too bad they are all just pipedreams. Also, I think the decisions for series representations were decided long before production on the ToS Wii sequel, so I don't think that mattered, unfortunately. Maybe we'll be surprised.
Yeah, I mained Sheena, which probably colors my list a titch. Unfortunately you're probably right, but with next-gen production time ballooning, it is entirely possible that ToS2 has been in the works since Brawl. Finally, even if ToS2 wasn't planned, the fact that ToS sold over a million copies (1.2 million in fact) could mean that Namco would love the publicity for the Tales series in general. A second game in the ToS series is just icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned!

...

Don't crush my dream!



SHEENA FUJIBAYASHI
Dude, what an awesome character. I’m liking her, but I dunno about her chances. Lloyd just seems more likely. But females are always good. Especially magical ones. Nevertheless, let’s have a look at the moveset.

Gah. No stats and no damage/knockback. I have no idea how much power she’s packing, her speed or how light. Meh. Let’s keep looking. Pyre Seal is cool. As is the Down Smash. Dunno about Cyclone Seal, but could be good to immobilize and attack. Depends on lag and the like though.
I was a bit vague about Cyclone Seal, as I never thought of it immobilizing. I just thought it would be a cool-looking effect to launch the foe. I clarified a bit on the 2.0 move-list.

An omni-directional basic aerial attack? All I can say is that it better be a very weak attack. The other attacks are fairly good, I guess. I dunno if I like the down aerial, and it’s all starting to feel a bit same-y. So to rectify this, onto the Specials!
Yeah, I was thinking in terms of Kirby's spinny or Mewtwo's sparkly Nair when I made it. It's quite weak and not a very large range. I didn't even think about it before you mentioned the problem, but there is a quite large amount of "swipe seal in X direction". I've rectified that too!

Wow. Just wow. The basic B attack sounds like it has significant lag to start up, and is another omnidirectional assault. Huh. It’s just far too powerful for a basic attack, and also too slow. It doesn’t even sound charge optional like other long B attacks.

Ice is fine, as are Darkness and Wind. Does Wind do any damage, how far does it lift her?
I was thinking of Neutral B as being similar in some ways to both PK Flash and Pikachu's Thunder. It's pretty weak despite it's meteor smash properties and farily low range on both sides. I did forget to mention it's a charge B, which makes it a little more usable I'd imagine.


More seals that don’t really do anything. A bit ho-hum by now… and I have no idea of her range or knockback, which is pretty much the most important aspect of throws.
I revamped every throw except her back one! So take that, boringness!

Huh, randomized or something? Well, I’m fine with the Final Smash as it is. I like Origin better, cause there are already looking to be a few fiery hell bombing Final Smashes.
No, I just wasn't sure which one would make a better Final Smash. Maxwell's a secret summon, and I liked the idea of it being avoidable with good timing by following a strict pattern of meteor death falling from the sky. However, Origin, being a non-secret in addition to different from already shown Final Smashes is the final cut.

Hrm. The B attack for her probably wouldn’t work well for Kirby. He’s too vulnerable to really be waiting for something to happen like Summon: Light. The taunt and poses are fine.
Well, I figured Kirby would actually work slightly better with it due to his multijump capability. Especially since it's faster than I initially portrayed it.

6/10 overall. But I might be being slightly harsh there.
Curses, foiled again! Only a D-!


Sheena FujibayashiMark 2


BASE STATISTICS
Weight: ***
Attack Power: ***
Grab Range: **
Running Speed: ****
Jump: ***
Falling Speed: ****
Traction: ** (Pretty good wavedashing)

A Left flick of seal (1-3%)
A,A Left, right flick of seal (4-5%)
A,A,A Left, right, vertical arc of seal (low knockback; 4-7%)

TILTS
> A Power Seal Pinion - Flicks out a seal and then spins around and attacks again. (3%, 5%; hits twice)
V A T. Seal: Lightning - Quickly throws three lightning-enhanced seals into the ground in front of her trailing electricity. (additional slight vertical knockback, high percentage or floaty opponents may be knocked clear of successive seals; 1-3% per seal)
^ A Backflip kick, knocking opponents behind her. (medium knockback, 3-6%)
Dash A Spins and slaps opponent with a backhand seal attack. (low knockback, low lag; 2-7%)

SMASH
> A Pyre Seal - Flicks out a seal; if it hits, there's a huge explosion of seals. (Strong knockback, long lag after use; 14-26%)
V A Spins in place, trailing a full "deck" of seals at a low angle. Hits all around her. (Medium knockback, medium lag as the deck of seals comes back together; 8-15%)
^ A Cyclone Seal - Flicks a seal above her head; if it hits, opponent spins into the air in a tiny cyclone that scatters into some seals. (Large straight up knockback, the cyclone launches characters immediately but lasts for about 20 frames before dissolving; 5-14%)

AERIALS
A Force Seal - A burst of seals flies out from her body, hitting all sides. (little knockback, short range; 2-5%)
> A Sex kick. (6-9%)
< A Diagonal spin and swipe down with a pair of seals. (meteor smash; 8-11%)
V A Summon: Fire - Sheena punches downwards with an Ifrit gauntlet, making a small explosion. (Short wind-up lag, medium cooldown lag; 6-17%)
^ A Crosses a pair of seals over her head with an x-shaped swipe. (Hits a roughly 90 degree arc above her, directly above her is hit with both seals for more damage; 5-7% per seal)

SPECIALS
B Summon: Light - A small area about half a character length in each direction around Sheena starts glowing. It slowly expands out to about two character lengths in both directions as you hold B. When released, Luna appears and beams of light burst from the heavens, peppering the glowing area and damaging all nearby enemies. The light is stopped by the first ground it hits; if you're not near any ground, it fills the whole screen. (meteor smash, two beams initially charged up to eight, medium-high wind-up lag, low-medium cooldown lag, medium knockback; 3-5% per beam)
> B Summon: Ice - Celsius appears and releases a pair of high gravity ice trails that have a chance to freeze opponents. If used in the air the trails travel sharply downward before travelling normally along the ground. (5% chance to freeze for 30 frames, very low vertical knockback on freeze, knocks foe in the direction the ice trail is travelling, travels about five character lengths, trail is never longer than two character length, medium cooldown lag; 4-11% per time hit, 5% bonus if frozen)
V B Summon: Darkness - Shadow appears behind Sheena and spins in place, knocking away nearby foes. (Low-medium knockback; 5-8%)
^ B Summon: Wind - The Sylphs appear, circling Sheena and bearing her skywards for a few seconds before fading away. (Very low knockback, lasts about 60 frames, almost completely vertical, about 2/3 the distance of Zelda's UP+B but without directional component or the teleporting; 1-3% per Sylph)

THROWS
A Slaps their face with a weak seal attack. (2-3%)
> Summon: Corrine - Sheena steps back a little and Corrine shoots into the opponent, sending them flying back. (horizontal only knockback; 6-14%)
< Pulls enemy behind her and then smacks them with a two-handed seal attack. (slightly downward weak horizontal knockback; 7-16%)
V Summon: Earth - Trips opponent, then summons a small boulder and throws it into foe's chest. (Strong knockback, can be teched at low percentage; 9-20%)
^ Summon: Water - Tosses them into the air with one hand and a short gout of water a little taller than Sheena smacks them straight up. (Medium-low knockback; 4-13%)

FINAL SMASH
Summon: Origin - Three diamons appear a fixed distance from Sheena; after three seconds, Origin appears and unleashes massive explosive lightning damage to any enemies within the triangle's bounds. Has medium knockback and does around 55% damage to all enemies in the triangle.

TAUNT
Shrugs and shakes her head while saying "That's it? I was just getting started."

KIRBY HAT
Bow around his midriff and Sheena hair.

VICTORY POSE
1 - Puts a seal in front of her, and spins it with a finger. It floats there spinning as she says "Heh heh. Evil doesn't stand a chance."
2 - Fans out a bunch of seals and fans herself with them, saying "Who's next?"
3 - A little combo with her seals and then poses, saying "Regret messing with me? Well, it's too late now."

COSTUMES
Red - Default.
Blue - Successor title. Maroon ninja outfit basically.
Green - Queen of the Beach title. One-piece bathing suit with sunglasses on her head.
Yellow - You Look Great! title. Maroon dress.
Black - Normal outfit, but with black kimono and white pants.
White - Successor title but with a purple outfit.

ENTRANCE (assuming they return)
Burst of rainbowy light, then Sheena appears on a Rheiard. The rheiard shrinks out of existence as she hops to the stage.

STAGE
Derris-Kharlan (Main Foyer)
Has a few platforms as well as being a bigger platform supsended in space, just how we like it. Can have Angels flying about in the background and sometimes coming to the foreground like Shy Guys to be smacked around. If you like random stage hazards, there's a few teleporters that could shift the characters around and/or slow-moving walkways.
 

LukeFonFabre

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
1,094
Shouldn't get closed really, there's a Sephiroth thread out there that remains unclosed, and he hasn't appeared on a Nintendo console ever.

Though wait...


I've seen that pose before..



Zomg, Ike's the Nintendo equivalent of Dante!!!XD

Edit: whoops, page stretch >.<

Edit upon Edit: there, found a better one
 

Copperpot

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
514
Location
In your cereal, stealin' your prizes!
Well... They ARE using the FE symbol from Melee. So it's possible that Marth could return.

But it's also possible they're justing using the symbol from Melee.
My thought on the symbol is that they're merely using it as representation for the series. There really is no point in changing it. Everyone and their mom is familiar with the icon already used in Melee.

Not to say that Marth isn't returning. I may lean on the side of skepticism, but I'll wager that Marth will be back.

Also, just thought I'd add that the characters I listed to be revealed at the time of E3 were DK, Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, and Ike. So, if Falcon and Ganondorf are the next two to be revealed, I may very well be a 'Sakurai mind-reader'. :laugh:

This does however boost the Black Knight's chances of getting into Brawl, seeing as how they were in the same game.
It's a pretty reasonable gesture. The Black Knight is the only Fire Emblem character I've seen, as a counterpart (enemy) to the main character, to be mentioned so much. It's pretty obvious that he must be a somewhat substantial character to the series and/or games he was founded in.

Thoughts on animal crossing: Did anyone ever consider Copper to be a PC? >_>
I thought you were talking about me! :psycho:
 
Top Bottom