Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Shadowplusle]

well if wiseguys predictions keep being right maybe we will see Captain olimar in there!

 

[O D I N]

well if wiseguys predictions keep being right maybe we will see Captain olimar in there!

Wouldn't doubt. He was on the polls, and is pretty popular.

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

i think ike is a starter because there has been no news on meta-knight or snake showing they may be unlockables because all the characters(that have been reveiled) seem to have good chances to be started with

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Mebee. Every night I pray to Sakurai that I'll lie awake that night and check the SSBB website, only to see that one name...

"FIERCE DEITY LINK"

*sigh*

WOLF LINK FOR T3H BRAWLZ0RZ!

 

[Copperpot]

Copperpot for Brawl!!!11!!!!!1

Haha, me for the win! But wait, wouldn't I technically be considerred 3rd party?

 

[O D I N]

Haha, me for the win! But wait, wouldn't I technically be considerred 3rd party?

I think it's more like 5th party...

1st party: Nintendo. The big company. Makes consoles and games out of their own mettle.
2nd party: Company employed by Nintendo (Camelot, Intelligent, etc.)
3rd party: a seperate company that makes games for other systems. Not limited to one platform.
4th party: Company employed by the 3rd party.
5th party: The poor saps who play the games made by parties 1-4.

:-P

 

[Masque]

Squish that top part down. I think that it's a name that would normally go beneath a character's avatar on the select screen, but stretched out so it's more difficult to read. Anyone else think it says Olimar (sans the "r")? Just a thought. It's the closest I could come to a name that I could recognize.

 

[O D I N]

Squish that top part down. I think that it's a name that would normally go beneath a character's avatar on the select screen, but stretched out so it's more difficult to read. Anyone else think it says Olimar (sans the "r")? Just a thought. It's the closest I could come to a name that I could recognize.

Could you point it out for me? I'm having trouble finding it.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Sheena FujibayashiMark 2

BASE STATISTICS
Weight: ***
Attack Power: ***
Grab Range: **
Running Speed: ****
Jump: ***
Falling Speed: ****
Traction: ** (Pretty good wavedashing)

A Left flick of seal (1-3%)
A,A Left, right flick of seal (4-5%)
A,A,A Left, right, vertical arc of seal (low knockback; 4-7%)

TILTS
> A Power Seal Pinion - Flicks out a seal and then spins around and attacks again. (3%, 5%; hits twice)
V A T. Seal: Lightning - Quickly throws three lightning-enhanced seals into the ground in front of her trailing electricity. (additional slight vertical knockback, high percentage or floaty opponents may be knocked clear of successive seals; 1-3% per seal)
^ A Backflip kick, knocking opponents behind her. (medium knockback, 3-6%)
Dash A Spins and slaps opponent with a backhand seal attack. (low knockback, low lag; 2-7%)

SMASH
> A Pyre Seal - Flicks out a seal; if it hits, there's a huge explosion of seals. (Strong knockback, long lag after use; 14-26%)
V A Spins in place, trailing a full "deck" of seals at a low angle. Hits all around her. (Medium knockback, medium lag as the deck of seals comes back together; 8-15%)
^ A Cyclone Seal - Flicks a seal above her head; if it hits, opponent spins into the air in a tiny cyclone that scatters into some seals. (Large straight up knockback, the cyclone launches characters immediately but lasts for about 20 frames before dissolving; 5-14%)

AERIALS
A Force Seal - A burst of seals flies out from her body, hitting all sides. (little knockback, short range; 2-5%)
> A Sex kick. (6-9%)
< A Diagonal spin and swipe down with a pair of seals. (meteor smash; 8-11%)
V A Summon: Fire - Sheena punches downwards with an Ifrit gauntlet, making a small explosion. (Short wind-up lag, medium cooldown lag; 6-17%)
^ A Crosses a pair of seals over her head with an x-shaped swipe. (Hits a roughly 90 degree arc above her, directly above her is hit with both seals for more damage; 5-7% per seal)

SPECIALS
B Summon: Light - A small area about half a character length in each direction around Sheena starts glowing. It slowly expands out to about two character lengths in both directions as you hold B. When released, Luna appears and beams of light burst from the heavens, peppering the glowing area and damaging all nearby enemies. The light is stopped by the first ground it hits; if you're not near any ground, it fills the whole screen. (meteor smash, two beams initially charged up to eight, medium-high wind-up lag, low-medium cooldown lag, medium knockback; 3-5% per beam)
> B Summon: Ice - Celsius appears and releases a pair of high gravity ice trails that have a chance to freeze opponents. If used in the air the trails travel sharply downward before travelling normally along the ground. (5% chance to freeze for 30 frames, very low vertical knockback on freeze, knocks foe in the direction the ice trail is travelling, travels about five character lengths, trail is never longer than two character length, medium cooldown lag; 4-11% per time hit, 5% bonus if frozen)
V B Summon: Darkness - Shadow appears behind Sheena and spins in place, knocking away nearby foes. (Low-medium knockback; 5-8%)
^ B Summon: Wind - The Sylphs appear, circling Sheena and bearing her skywards for a few seconds before fading away. (Very low knockback, lasts about 60 frames, almost completely vertical, about 2/3 the distance of Zelda's UP+B but without directional component or the teleporting; 1-3% per Sylph)

THROWS
A Slaps their face with a weak seal attack. (2-3%)
> Summon: Corrine - Sheena steps back a little and Corrine shoots into the opponent, sending them flying back. (horizontal only knockback; 6-14%)
< Pulls enemy behind her and then smacks them with a two-handed seal attack. (slightly downward weak horizontal knockback; 7-16%)
V Summon: Earth - Trips opponent, then summons a small boulder and throws it into foe's chest. (Strong knockback, can be teched at low percentage; 9-20%)
^ Summon: Water - Tosses them into the air with one hand and a short gout of water a little taller than Sheena smacks them straight up. (Medium-low knockback; 4-13%)

FINAL SMASH
Summon: Origin - Three diamons appear a fixed distance from Sheena; after three seconds, Origin appears and unleashes massive explosive lightning damage to any enemies within the triangle's bounds. Has medium knockback and does around 55% damage to all enemies in the triangle.

TAUNT
Shrugs and shakes her head while saying "That's it? I was just getting started."

KIRBY HAT
Bow around his midriff and Sheena hair.

VICTORY POSE
1 - Puts a seal in front of her, and spins it with a finger. It floats there spinning as she says "Heh heh. Evil doesn't stand a chance."
2 - Fans out a bunch of seals and fans herself with them, saying "Who's next?"
3 - A little combo with her seals and then poses, saying "Regret messing with me? Well, it's too late now."

COSTUMES
Red - Default.
Blue - Successor title. Maroon ninja outfit basically.
Green - Queen of the Beach title. One-piece bathing suit with sunglasses on her head.
Yellow - You Look Great! title. Maroon dress.
Black - Normal outfit, but with black kimono and white pants.
White - Successor title but with a purple outfit.

ENTRANCE (assuming they return)
Burst of rainbowy light, then Sheena appears on a Rheiard. The rheiard shrinks out of existence as she hops to the stage.

STAGE
Derris-Kharlan (Main Foyer)
Has a few platforms as well as being a bigger platform supsended in space, just how we like it. Can have Angels flying about in the background and sometimes coming to the foreground like Shy Guys to be smacked around. If you like random stage hazards, there's a few teleporters that could shift the characters around and/or slow-moving walkways.

Okay, you took my suggestions into account, and pacified me with full damage/knockback reports. She's now officially awesome. Still not entirely sure on B, but dependant on the charge time, it's all solid.

9.5/10

 

[Eight Sage]

The Fire Emblem Series:

1) Ike

Finally, a Fire Emblem representative who doesn't look like a girl.

Status: Very Likely

On Sakurai’s Poll: Yes

Comments: The Fire Emblem series is unique in that most of the games take place in their own, self contained universe with their own unique characters. For this reason, it is difficult to single out one character that can represent the entire series. In Japan Marth is seen as the original Fire Emblem lord, yet he has yet to appear in a single localized Fire Emblem game. Outside of Japan, the GBA games are seen are extremely well regarded, yet its characters aren’t particularly popular inside Japan.

Ike, the protagonist from the most recent internationally released Fire Emblem game: Path of Radiance, is the best suited to represent the series. He was the highest ranked Fire Emblem character in Sakurai’s Japanese poll and is also extremely popular internationally. He is also starring in the highly anticipated Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn, making him the only lord to appear in two internationally released Fire Emblem games.

There has been much debate as to whether both Marth and Ike will appear in Brawl. In my view, their appearances and fighting styles are too similar to justify putting them both in the same game. Since Ike is popular among Fire Emblem fans around the world (including Japan) rather than only Japan, he will most likely replace Marth.

Ike’s moveset will be similar to Marth’s except he will be slightly slower, use horizontal rather than vertical slices and have a ranged sword attack.

Wiseguy Wins... Again.

thumbs up for his predictions.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

i think ike does look like a girl in smash

im the biggest fan of ike

he is above all of my char

spacialy in this pic

 

[Legolastom]

O noes samus i going to blow his hand off (Better than slicing your own arm... *Looks at Ike's dad*)

(isn't Ike... Ike grail?)

 

[Wiseguy]

Wow. It's been a while since this thread was so active.

As would I, that Goroh deconfirmed really threw me off. And now I've come to realize with Deoxys de-confirmed, Sakurai is going to have 4 Pokemon. It is almost not debateable, with the exception of Blazekein and maybe Meowth making it. If Blazekein gets deconfirmed as a Pokeball Pokemon [which I assume he will be eventually], and Meowth returns as a Pokebal Pokemon, 4 is for sure.

And if Black Shadow makes it, every single post of mine until SSB4 comes out will have me whinning at the end. Ya, he's that lame, and he makes Pichu look cool, and makes Dr. Mario [who's super awsome btw] look as original as G&W and the Ice Climbers.

Sakurai realizes clones are brilliant, he just hasn't showed them off yet. Why else would he go from 1 clone in SSB64 [1/12th the roster], to 6 clones in Melee [6/26th the roster, or 3/13th the roster]. So why not 9=???

I'm beginning to suspect that Sakurai regrets the inclusion of clones in Melee, and is now opting for a smaller, more unique roster. I had hoped that he ould go the clone route myself (more characters=more choice=more fun) but that's just how I see it.

i've made a partial diddy kong moveset, a lost vikings moveset, and my pride and joy, a bomberman moveset

Hey, post em here by all means. It's always enjoyable to see a cool moveset.

HOLD THE @#$%ING PHONE!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_(Devil_May_Cry)#Appearances

Read the part about appearances...

Appearantly, Dante was in a game called SNK vs. Capcom: Card Fighter DS. Here's the excerpt of that article.

"Dante was also included as a character card in SNK vs. Capcom: Card Fighter DS and makes a cameo appearance in Capcom Fighting Evolution at the end of Jedah Dohma's storyline."

It's a long shot, but he HAS been on a Nintendo system.

Thank you, Wikipedia. :-D

:bounces off walls:

Well, what do you know. Dante just moved up from "Pretty Much Impossible" to "Not Impossible."

I've made two movesets. Solid Snake and.... Kefka Palazzo

http://www.doupe.cz/vaulty/finalfantasy/pictures/ff6kefka.jpg

​

Name: Kefka Palazzo
Age: Unknown
Developer: Square
First Appearance: Final Fantasy VI
Other Notable Appearances:

Height: 3/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Power: 3/5
Grab Range: 4/5
Running Speed: 4/5
Jump: 2/5
Falling Speed: 3/5

Regular Attacks:

A: Palm Strike (1-2%)

AA: Punch (2-3%)

AAA: Prance Kick (Minor-medium knockback. 5-6%)

Dash A: Hyperdrive (Kefka charges forward, seemingly floating, and delivers a powerful brute slam with his shoulder. Moderate horizontal knockback. 8-9%)

F Tilt: Flail (Kefka strikes the opponent in front of him with a flail. 4-7%)

U Tilt: Mad Pierrot (Kefka does a flipping kick, hitting the person in front of him upwards moderately with a kick to the face. 6-8%)

D Tilt: Three Goddesses (Kefka strikes out behind and in front of him with his legs by doing the splits and above him simultaneously as he throws a hand up in a flashy dance-style move, with a half-second lag afterwards. Each hit causes 3-5%)

F Smash: 10 Hits (Kefka performs a brutal flurry of ten Palm Strikes, with none doing knockback except the last. The hits all occur over a period of around a second, but then there is a second-long lag after the attack ends)

U Smash: Nihilism (Kefka smacks a character upside the head with a flail, sending them up with good knockback. 13-17%)

D Smash: Fallen One (Huge lag of a few seconds both before and after, but this smashes the enemy with massive horizontal and upwards knockback as a pair of wings pop from Kefka's back and smack the character in the stomach/upper chest and then dissolve. 30-40%)

Aerial Attacks:

N Air: Slap (Kefka whips his hand out and cracks an enemy in front of him sharply over the face. This slows his descent slightly, but doesn’t cause any really noticeable knockback. 1-4%)

F Air: Magitek (A ball of energy that moves at about the same speed as Samus’ uncharged shots in SSB64. Pushes Kefka backwards slightly when used. It fires forward, but will bounce once if it hits anything other than a character. 2-5%)

B Air: Cloak Strike (Kefka’s cloak twists and slams backwards a short distance, hitting anyone behind him with medium knockback backwards and down. 7-8%)

U Air: Train (Kefka raises his hands, creating a quarter-second lag or somesuch and the area directly above, and slightly to either side flashes green. Anyone hit by this becomes stunned for a second, but recovers all jumps and recoveries. 3-5%)

D Air: Meteo (Kefka creates a small burst of fiery energy directly beneath him that serves as a meteor slam if you are caught directly within it. 6-9%)

Special Attacks:

B: Trinity Magic (Kefka launches a projectile of ice, lightning or fire forward, which moves slightly slower than Fox’s lasers. The order cycles from fire (2-3% and further burn where the strike lands for two more seconds at 2% per second, similar to Ness’ PK fire) to lightning (5%) to ice (1-3%, and slows the hit character by 25% for three seconds). Kefka can fire one projectile per second)

Smash B: Forsaken/Goner (Kefka cackles madly, the screen flashes red and a disembodied head appears, and four stars shoot from it, covering a 45-degree spread in front of him, with a moderate range. Each star does 7% damage and has medium knockback. Highly efficient at close range, due to more stars hitting a single character. However, the lag is roughly a second and a half long at the beginning)

Up B: Havoc Wing (Kefka sprouts six angelic wings and shoots upwards and forwards, damaging anybody he hits and knocking them upwards. The recovery distance traveled is reasonable, being slightly better than average, to offset his short primary and secondary jumps. 8-10%)

Down B: Ultima (A hazy green ring manifests around Kefka, for roughly three seconds, and anyone who touches it is hit for moderate damage and medium-high knockback. Kefka is still vulnerable to attack from above, and while he can walk and run, Kefka cannot jump while Ultima is active. If Kefka is hit by anything while Ultima is active, it is cancelled and Kefka is stunned for two seconds. 14-18%)

Final Smash: Light of Judgment (A beam of whitish-blue light sweeps across the stage from one side to the other, striking all characters except Kefka for 20-30% damage and high knockback meteor strikes on them all, generally spelling doom for anyone not over a platform. The Smash is non-penetrating, meaning that if you are beneath a platform, your character will be unharmed, though knocked to his/her feet as the beam passes overhead.)

Grapple Attacks:

Grab: R.Polarity (Kefka extends his hand and a greenish light shoots from it, to about the same distance as Link’s grab. Can be used for recovery, but isn’t directable, being able to move horizontal only)

Grab Attack: Poison (As long as Keka holds the Grab attack button, he automatically causes damage to the character, at a rate of 2% per second, but it is possible to wiggle from his grasp)

F Throw: Scar Beam (Kefka throws the character into the air and then slams the person with his hand. There is a slight freeze of both Kefka and the hit character for around half a second, and then the character is flung backwards as a beam of blue light spirals from Kefka’s open palm. 6-10%)

B Throw: Revenger (Kefka spins around, launching the character backwards with trails of green vapour following. The distance thrown is generally moderate to good. 10-12%)

U Throw: Metamorphosis (Kefka’s wings burst into being and he shoots up into the air, before releasing the other character at the apex of the throw, to be shot in a random direction (backwards, up or forwards) with moderate-good knockback. 4-10%)

D Throw: Dancing Mad (Kefka tosses the character to the ground and proceeds to jump on the character twice, laughing as he does. There’s a slight finishing lag as he jumps off and the other character stands up. 12-18%)

Recovery/Defensive:

Shield: Prism (Kefka forms a translucent flickering pyramid of energy that changes colour around himself. It serves like any other shield, except that when it breaks, instead of Kefka being stunned, he does his crazy laugh for the length of a standard shield break, and the player is unable to control him.)

Edge Recovery: Float (Kefka lets go of the edge and simply floats up to land near the edge. As he floats up, Kefka glows with energy that causes moderate knockback upwards to any character who touches him, but no damage)

Standing Recovery: Illusion (Kefka, when knocked to the ground, automatically fades out and reappears behind the character who knocked him over)

Other Data:

Taunt: Kefka sweeps his cape back and laughs his maniacal laugh. It’s a fairly long taunt, between 2 and 3 seconds.

Victory Pose 1: Kefka plants his hands on his hips and cackles as his cloak flutters mysteriously.

Victory Pose 2: Kefka states ‘The end is... beyond chaos’ and the disembodied head appears as the screen fades to flickering red.

Victory Pose 3: Kefka dances madly on screen, shouting "I hate hate hate hate HATE you all!".

Loss Pose: Kefka clutches his stomach and falls forward, sparks surrounding him.

Entrance: Three statue-like creatures fly onto screen, around a ball of transluscent energy, in which we see Kefka sitting cross-legged. The bubble bursts, Kefka floats to the ground and the goddesses wink out of existence.

Costumes:
He’s a clown. He’s a jester. He’s a pierrot. Any mad circus outfits will do him. Obviously his first costume is his red and yellow thing with white and red makeup.

Arena: Kefka’s Tower, Floating Continent (complete with Three Goddess statues that do random stuff)

I haven't quite gotten to FFVI yet (I'm slowly plodding my way through FFIII DS at the moment) but this moveset sounds both insane and awesome. When one of a characters moves is called "Nihilism" you know you're in for a treat.

Because it means that it'll be more of a chore to create and balance his moveset. From the various instances of Olimar I've seen about, it'd be a baby nightmare to figure out how to make Pikmin work effectively without neutering Captain Olimar with too much reliance of disposable minions or making him too strong when he's fielding a full team of varied Pikmin. Doesn't mean that he won't make it, just makes it less likely I'd imagine.

Olimar would be a challenge to balance properly, no doubt. But Sakurai strikes me as the kind of guy who likes a challenge. Olimar would singlhandedly increase the awesomeness of Smash Bros five fold. I can't imagine how he could NOT be in Brawl.

Actually, I think it has at least a mediocre chance. Not only was Tales of Symphonia a good sale for Nintendo, as well as being one of the only good RPGs on the system, but they're making a sequel EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE WII according to their Tales release schedule. Yeah, I do feel that Lloyd would probably make it in before Sheena, but she has such a unique weapon and fighting style. Seriously, check this out:

- SHEENA FUJIBAYASHI -

IMG]http://tales.namco.com/symphonia/images/pic_sheena.jpg[/IMG]
Note the seal in her right hand. That's what she attacks with.

A Left flick of seal
A,A Left, right flick of seal
A,A,A Left, right, vertical arc of seal

> A Power Seal Pinion - Flicks out a seal and then spins around and attacks again.
V A Crouching low swipe of the seal.
^ A Diagonally up horizontal swipe of the seal.
Dash A Spins and slaps opponent with a backhand seal attack.

Smash
> A Pyre Seal - Flicks out a seal; if it hits, there's a huge explosion of seals. Long lag after use.
V A Spins in place, trailing a full "deck" of seals at a low angle. Hits all around her.
^ A Cyclone Seal - Flicks a seal above her head; if it hits, opponent spins into the air in a tiny cyclone that scatters into some seals.

Aerial
A Force Seal - A burst of seals flies out from her body, hitting all sides.
> A Frontal downward swipe of her seal.
< A Backflip and swipe down with seal. (Meteor Smash)
V A Throws a couple seals down with a lot of force.
^ A Crosses a pair of seals over her head with an x-shaped swipe.

B Summon: Light - A small area around Sheena starts glowing. It slowly expands out to about two character lengths in both directions. When released, Luna appears and beams of light burst from the heavens, peppering the glowing area and damaging all nearby enemies. The light is stopped by the first ground it hits; if you're not near any ground, it fills the whole screen. (Meteor Smash)
> B Summon: Ice - Celsius appears and releases a pair of low ice beams that have a chance to freeze opponents.
V B Summon: Darkness - Shadow appears behind Sheena and spins in place, knocking away nearby foes.
^ B Summon: Wind - The Sylphs appear, circling Sheena and bearing her skywards for a few seconds before fading away.

Throw
A Slaps their face with a seal.
> Demon Seal - Pushes a seal against their chest and they fly back trailing seals.
< Pulls enemy behind her and then smacks them with a two-handed seal attack.
V Flips into the air slightly, then tosses a bunch of seals into the opponent's head.
^ Tosses them into the air with one hand and smacks them with a seal in the other.

Final Smash

Summon: Origin - Three diamons begin orbiting Sheena; after a second or two, Origin appears and unleashes massive damage to any enemies within the triangle's bounds.
-OR-
Summon: Birth - Maxwell appears, gestures towards the field and five meteors drop across the stage, hitting in quick succession from the left edge of the stage to the right.

Taunt - Shrugs and shakes her head while saying "That's it? I was just getting started."

Kirby Hat - Bow around his midriff and Sheena's hair.

Victory Pose 1 - Puts a seal in front of her, and spins it with a finger. It floats there spinning as she says "Heh heh. Evil doesn't stand a chance."
Victory Pose 2 - Fans out a bunch of seals and fans herself with them, saying "Who's next?"
Victory Pose 3 - A little combo with her seals and then poses, saying "Regret messing with me? Well, it's too late now."

Yeah, yeah, pipe dream probably. But hey, as the not annoying lead female character of a Nintendo distributed and voice-acted (in the US at least) game with an upcoming spin-off? Great Namco representation right there!

Symphonia is tied with Path of Radiance and Dragon Quest VIII as my favorite RPG ever. Your moveset makes me think that Sheena would work splendidly in Smash Bros, though I'm still partial to Lloyd myself. I can't WAIT for the sequel!

Same with me...I'm on the part where your party splits...I love that game!

BTW, make a Dante for Brawl thread, post why he actually has a chance [so the thread doesn't get closed, post a link to it HERE. Don't forget to state WHY he has a chance O D I N. I've almost beat the 3rd one, next the original, and then *shrudders* DMC2...

BTW, here's my Wind Waker Link Moveset ~revised~

nB: Bow: Since I think Link's will be upgraded, WW Link should keep the old one. It should be the fire arrow still, and it should be able have less lag to pull out, for super spamming.

<B>: Boomerang: With Link getting the Gale Boomerang, and it probably is more of a damage racker than stun or impact move, I say WW Link's boomerang should be a good stunner, doing 20% less damage than Link's boomerang. It's stun is perfect for combos, and doing a full on spam charage against your enemy (simliar to Falco's laser, little damage, good impact for high comboability).

uB: Spin Attack: Spin Attack, Spin Attack, Spin Attack. We love the spin attack, it is a good move (though many overuse it, Link's is great for defensive positioning). It should stay similar to YLink's, being a damage racker, but it should do more damage, and at the end it does a good impact hit, with good stun. With that siad, it wouldn't be a KOable move, unless you get your opponent way up in the 700 percentile area! It can rack up to 17% or 18% damage.

Also, it would be neat is you could hold uB, you do the hurrican spin, with a insane amount of damage racking ability, but little impact and great stun to combo the hell out of your opponents. However, it takes 3 seconds to charge, and it can do up to 40% damage. The final spin slice does good impact and extremely godo stun, hitting your opponent far. However, if you miss the final slash, you'll be vulnerable (dizzy) for 3 seconds. You're vulnerable for 3 seconds even if you hit the final slash on the super spin attack, but the impact is good enough to keep your opponent trying to recover for over 3 seconds.

It is KOable on the light characters around 150%, and for the heaviest of characters around 190%. Hard to work, and it doesn't stop, unless you press B again. It's max time is 6 seconds (it goes insanley fast like MK's nA continual), and for 2 every second you do it, when you press B you're vulnerable (dizzy) for 1 second (2 frames=1 frame vulerable). If your opponent does any non-smash or strong/long range special attack on you and your sword hits it, you run through them.

Also, if your oppnent does a long range attack and hits your blade, you stop doing the spin attack 5 spins (1 spin=2%, and you do 4 spins per second), and then contiunes unless cancelled (in which you won't be vulnerable! . If your opponent does a smash attack or strong melee B attack, then WW Link does 3 less slashes, and you are vulnerable (though you can press Z to cancel). you can control which way you go doing this attack, and can jump (it's like a short hop) while doing this (you'll continue swinging), and it is controlled with the controll stick. Really in depth, lol!

dB: Bombs: The bombs returning would make WW Link the ultimate spam artillary character! With nB as the fast and chargeable decent damage and some shorter combos, <B> being the stunner and impact for all sorts of combos, the bombs should be the damage racker one. It would be diffrent from bombs in the past, doing 9% damage this time, and taking about 30% the time to pull out (I hate the lag). It does barely any impact (it couldn't even Ko someone at 999% damage most the time0, but it does good stun, and good damage.

Great for long range spamming, and this time WW Link can throw it farther on ground by a good margin over YLink, but just barely further than Y Link in terms of throwing it midair. This is my fav, giving WW Link the most spam attacks in the game, and that gives him so many options of approaching the opponent! Also, combined with WW Link's wavedashing (or wavelanding) (which is decent, about Fox's, if no a tad bit longer) and his shorthopping, he can do a good spam combo, like Falco's shorthop (with or without Wavedashing). Plus, the time to pull out the bombs can be done during wavedashing=options=YES!

Good for recovery, but I feel it is kinda unneccissary, since WW Link would already have the spin attack, and his hookshot and/or grapple hook. But hey, it would work, and you never know, but overall I think it would overpower WW Link, and we want the tiers as balanced as possible, so I'll hold back!

Sorry it is a bit long, but it is very detailed. Hope it's useful, and any comments on my list of WW Link's B moveset would be appreciated! O, and like L Cancel said, Wind Waker Link for Brawl (foos)!

Here, I'll make part of a A moveset:

A: slash downward 3%

AA:sdown slash, rising slash 5% (3%, 2%)

AAA:down slash, rising slash, horizontile (side up) slash 9% (3%, 2%, 4%)

A hold (previously A repeatiately push): same as AAA, but then crazy slashes liuke MK, going in the same order as AAA, but then the opposite side horizontile slash (side down), then the same thing but the other angle of horizontle slashes, then a sideways slash one way, and then another the opposite way, and then repeat.

running A: WW Link does a quick jump slash forward, most oftenly hitting the opponent's head or upper body (the A counter used against the Darknuts in WW). 7% Decent damage, small impact, and well above aveerage stun for rA attacks.

<A> smash: Jump Slash: Link does a jumping slash, and does good damage. It's basically A forward while in lock-on mode in all the 3D zeldas. In fact, it is exactly like that. 16%-24%. Very comboable, does good impact (good for combos, not KOs), and a bit above average stun.

dAtilt: Link does a quick and ever powerful slash down. This does 12% damage, and does good damage, good impact, but only about 5 frames stun max. Good for racking damage, and is sorta like Fox's dAtilt in Melee, though isn't as good for KO'ing opponents.

dAsmash: Same as in Melee, a slash forward and back, but this time with more damaging swings. Each do 15%-23% damage, and does considerably good damage, good impact just enough to move away or to oponents, not really for Koing except in the 200%'s), and little stun.

uAtilt: WW Link swings upward in a sideways upswing, doing small damage, but can be pressed (maybe held like the nA attacks now) for repeatided use. Does 3% damage, but can be repeated as a combo, and has average stun, some impact. After about 15%-20% they can break free (they can also break free before then), but this combo really only works when they are in the 0%-40% percentiles, or 50% for heavier characters. This move requires timing in the first slash, and knowing when to use it, when to stop using it, and how to combo after finishing using it. Perfect for WW Link IMO

uAsmash: This is where I begin to get more crafty! WW Link angles his body up, swings up in the air, 3 times in a stabbing motion, much like the dAair or uAair of Link's and YLink's. This can do anyhwere from 16% if all 3 are hit to 28% (4%-6%, 6%-10%, 6%-12%).

The first hit is the most comboable, and does just enough impact to make the opponent mid air or on ground to rise for the next slash, and stunned enough for the next slash. The 2nd slash is the weakness: it does more damage, does some impact, but barely enough stun to keep the enemy stunned for the final slash. Most the time the final slash will be slashed, and it does good damage, barely any stun outside of the character being hit up hard, and very KOable in terms of impact. If your opponent is at 170% it is basically a guarenteed a KO even with the heaviest of characters, at the lowest charged full uAsmash combo.

nAair: WW Link does a swift stab, doing minimal damage (7%), little impact, and great stun. If you do this while shorthopping you can go combo-crazy into a sAtilt or sAsmash. A perfect air to land combo move, or land to air to land combo as well!

<A>air: WW Link slashes forward hard, doing a frongflip while still slashing. A good damage racker (does 14%), has little lag (5 frames), barely any stun (njk), great impact (very KOable in the 150%'s). Perfect for doing a one hit damage racker, KOing your opponent, or for just hitting your opponent to kill them while they try recoverying via air!

Also, it is great for distancing yourself from your opponent, and allowing you time to spam with your B moves! Can be used in many offensive and defensive ways! Think of it as a useful move in many fields, but keep in mind 5 frames can be the game, and timing is everything with this attack!

dAair: Swordplant: WW Link downthrusts his sword, into the ever famous swordplant formation/positioning! (how to kill Ganondorf: Stab him in the F***** head when he;s 10 times your size=this moment is screwattack.com's #1 in their top ten ways to die! XD) WW Link's stab normally does (17%) good damage, great stun, and some impact (especially if you do it 3 times). Here is where it gets intrstesting, in that this move can be comboed again and again, and again.

The 2nd time it does 14% damage (a tad bit above average), more (good) stun, and more (decent) impact, and the 3rd (and most often final), it does 13% damage (average), good stun, and barely any impact. Landing three is hard, and more than not you'll only get one, but you can land three every few matches. Also, continuing the swordplant isn't the only combo for this anymore. You can go and press A to cancel the swordplant fast, and combo/damage your opponent while their stunned.

This has just decent stun, and can be pretty intresting. You can attack and customize this attack in multiple ways and from multiple angles, a lot more so than YLink's or Link's in Melee or SSB64. It has noticeably less lag, and more comboability. Also, the DI control really kicks in. Holding down on the control stick makes you go down faster, and you can add 1%-3% more damage doing so, as well as very KOable impact (in the 140%'s the full down DI is basically a instant KO, though against good smashers you will never hit them this way).

If you click sideways on the control stick or more upwards, you can also cancel this attack, as well as with the A and Z buttons. This move is very useful, but not one to pull out. Also, the end lag (where you're sword is in the ground) is virtually 90% less, and allows you more time to move. Plus the DI and swordplany cancelling kicks in, for more help for WW Link from being a lag machine!

uAair: Upplant or Upstab: Wind Waker Link stabs straight upwards with a very damaging stab. It does great damage (17%), below average stun, and only some impact. Great for being used when short hopping and your opponent is on a platform above you, jumped above you, you hit them up (whether they're stunned or not), or they simply jumped or are above you. Has only 6 frames pre-attack lag, and 2 frames post-attack lag.

If done correctly with shorthopping you could get three hits in, though unlikely. Good for individual damage, and some combos. A very all-around move to say the least that is good in air vs. ground (you) type of situations, whether it is done offensively or defnesively! Great for basically anything, though it should only be pulled out maybe 6 to 10 times per match preferably, but you never know what type of situation you'll be in, so it is kinda hard to judge how and when to use this attack IMO to be honest!

grabs:

Grabbing opponent: Hookshot: Wind Waker Link shoots out his hookshot, and grabs opponent. If missed there are 6 frames of vulnerability, and 2 frames of pre-attack lag. If grab is successful, there are anyhwere from 2-10 frames of lag to pull them in. Know your distancing from them in this in FFA's or teams (epsecially teams), because you don't want to be vulnerable to other opponents.

Basic grab hits: Link holds his enemy with his hookshot, while he slashes up to down horizontily, down to up horizontily, and then the opposite of on each sides. 2% and 3%. (15-20 frames lag inbetween each hit)

Up throw: Wind Waker Link grabbing them with his hookshot pulls them in, aims them up, and stabs them. Does massive damage for a grab throw (10%), does well below average impact (just enough to escape), and barely any stun (3 frames=just enough to escape). More of a one hit move than comboable, but does good damage for racking up damage on enemies in the 50%-90% percentile ranges. (4 frames post-attack lag)

Down Throw: Wind Waker Link kciks them into the floor. Does well below average damage (5%), GREAT impact, decent stun, and best of all makes your opponent slam into the ground, and then slide off 6 or so feet. Intesting and origianal, and if you're quick you can use your dAair on them, and maybe pull off a combo if timed right, but that is something only the better players cna pull off, unless you're lucky! (3 frames post-attack lag)

Side Forward Throw: Wind Waker Link lets go of his opponent with his hookshot, and barely pushes them forward (doing no damage). Then he quickly slashes, and they get hit and fly back. Does above average damage (7%), does good impact for most grabs, and has little stun. It is more of a spacing, defensive, and spam attack preperation grab then anything else. More of a setup then a way to rack damage or combo your enemies! More of a situation grab than a use regulary grab, you gotta know/feel when to use this one!

Side Back Throw: This one is intresting, I have a good idea. Wind Waker Link kicks them back (0% damage) while holding them, and he does a backfilp, and as he releases them, he slashes forward and hits them good. Does average damage (7%), barely any impact (other than they hit the ground and bounce back up), and exellent stun. The perfect grab throw for conbos and insane customibility, for sure.

Sdie Up Throw: Wind Waker Link throws his opponent up in a sideways angle, and throws his boomerang at them. Does below average damage (5%), barely any impact (you won't even see it), and GREAT stun (though they are often too high up to combo). If you know how to work this, you can enter spam mode, then combo off that, and do good damage. A move that isn't useful unless you know how to be creative, unorthodox, and highly original!

Z air: Link pulls out the grapple hook, and swings and smacks his opponent with it. Has lag (8 frames pre-attack, 4 frames post-attack), does very good damage (12%), does great stun, and does just barely any impact. Requires good timing, and if done short hoping or just above ground it's super comboable. However, in high air combat it isn't really comboable. But in air to land situations this move is perfect if you can time and deal with the lag. Something to work with, and get crazy and unorthodox with.

Also, like the Hookshot in Melee, the grapple hook can grab onto platforms and stages, but with less lag (8 frames to pull yourself in). It also has about 20% more range than Link's hookshot, a lot less lag, and just better all around. Great as a optional jump!

Taunt: Link drinks a red potion, and it takes about 1 1/2 minutes [a bit below 90 frames].

Victory 1: Wind Waker Link does his famous dance. We all know what I mean!

Victory 2: Wind Waker Link grasps the Master Sword, and swings it around like he did the first time he got it.

Victory 3: Wind Waker Link does a super spin attack, and goes crazy with it, thus getting very dizzy, and he colapses. XD

Final Smash: Link gets his Wind Waker, and summons two tornadoes, both with the two wind frog gods in them. They tear apart the stage, like Ho-oh and Lugia, minus being a instant KO.

Here is my previously posted B moveset for Wind Waker Link. With these two combined I have a complete moveset for Wind Waker Link, hope you enjoyed!

Edit: I redid the moveset, making only one option instead of tons, with a few new things at the end!

That's just about exactly how I envision WW Young Link's moveset. Great job, JK.

I'm at the ghost train in the party split, forgot to save right as I finished the 2nd of the 3 story missions! XD Next up: the main party. Haven't played it in a few weeks, I should play that [and Chrono Trigger, SMRPG, and EarthBound] more and again. Love those games, and love my ROMs of them!

I'll be happily awaiting your critiques of my moveset.

BTW, here is my Diddy Kong Moveset! [also revised]

nB: Peanut Guns: Diddy fires them similar to Fox's blaster, but at Falco's blaster's speed, and 1 followed by another, then pause, 1 and then 1 (since he has two guns). This stuns the opponent, but for a short time only. Great for charging your opponents!

^B: Jet Pack: Diddy boosts up with his Jetpack, and then can control the DI much better, and can DI faster sideways, much like Peach's parasol. The damage is racked up by when the boost is hit, and he opponent is headbutted on the way up, or afterwards from the jetpack's engines.

<B> Chimp Charge: Straight from DK64, Diddy headbut charges forward, and can go shorter distances when B is pressed. It does a very high amount of damage, but doesn't pack much of a punch.

dB: Orange Gernade: Acting as sorta of Diddy's version of Link's bombs, Diddy ducks and throws them, or can simply fast toss them. Diddy pulls them out, and can do a array of things with them. For example, dB can be held for a harder throw, with more distance, and the gernades bounce and do more damage. Also, in air they are used exactly like Link's bombs, but fall much faster.

They generally do a fair amount of damage, and when combined with Diddy's guns it can be great spamability. Also, they generally bounce two or three times, but when charged they can go up to 5 or 6, and there explosion is fairly small, like Link's bombs. They have overall decent damage, stun, and knockback, and are all around good, but not overpowerful. Also, when hey hit something other than the ground (or the ground after X amount of bounce), they immediately explode.

Running A: Cartwheel: Diddy Cartwheels into the opponent, doing a decently high amount of damage with little impact, but around average amount of stun.

dAtilt: Diddy swipes forward with his tail.

dA smash: Diddy clears the area, attacking in front and back with his tail, similar to Mario's dA smash, but with less damage, about the same impact and stun, and more range.

Auptilt: Diddy headbutts toward the sky.

Aupsmash: Diddy does a full charged hard hitting headbutt, that doesn't do as much damage as you would like, but has decent stun, and good impact.

nA: Punch, kick, tail whip.

Asidesmash: Diddy raises his tail and tailwhips his opponent. This doesn't do as much damage as most would like, but the stun and impact are great!

Aupair: Diddy Flips and kicks his opponents with both feet, getting some impact, good stun, and a fair amount of damage.

<A>air: Diddy spins, damaging his opponents with his arms and tails. Has little impact and stun, but is a good damage racker!

dAair: Diddy straight headbutts his opponent, doing good damage, impact, and stun. However, it takes a bit to charge and launch this attack.

nA air: Diddy extends his knee and tail to hit his opponent. Does decent damage, impact, and stun, and if done towards the ground can be very comboable.

Grab: Diddy pulls in his opponents, using his tail.

Grab hits: Constant hjeadbutting of the opponent until thrown, they break free, or other fighters or something ends the grab.

<> Grab throw: Diddy whirls them out in his tail, doing little damage, but good stun and kinda good impact.

down Grab Throw: Diddy uses his tail, and thrashes his opponents down, doing good damage, greay impact, and some stun. However, they usually bounce into the air, ready for combat.

up Grab Throw: Diddy throws his opponent up with his arms. smacking them before released. Decent damage, some impact, and decent stun, but the real advantage is that this is bvery comboable.

up side Grab throw: Diddy grabs his opponent with his arms, chucks them Mario and Luigi style, and then shoots them. Does great damage, decent impact, and good stun. Definetly the best damage racking grab, outside of combos.

Z air: Like Link, Samus, and YLink, I felt Diddy deserved a Z air attack. Diddy whips his tail out, and smacks his opponent(s) downward hard. Does extremely great impact, well below average damage, and good stun. While lacking damage, this move can be effective for mid-air combos, or air to ground combos. When done right, this move can be a huge tactical advantage for the users.

Final Smash: Diddy pulls out his rock guitar, and starts playing his super awsome tunes!

Taunt: Diddy eats a banana. Not the best idea, any suggestions=??? That's all I could think of, lol! XD

Victory 1: Diddy does cartwheels, and does a double backflip with a big smile on his face.

Victory 2: Diddy takes off his hat, throws it up, smiles, scratches his head while eating a banana, and catches his head.

Victory 3: Diddy plays his guitar like a rockstar, and goes super rockstar at the end.

Victory 4: Diddy juggles 5 or 6 bananas happily, and squeezes them peels off them one by one while still juggling [and he eats the bananas iteslef], and then after eating all on them, and then leaps with joy.

Seriously JK, quit reading my mind! This moveset would be perfect for Diddy. I'm no fan of DK 64, but Diddy's abilities in that game lend themselves extremely well to a Smash moveset.

Waluigi Moveset-

Standard Attacks:
A- Jab
AA- Jab Jab
AAA- Jab Jab Knee

Tilts:
Dtilt- Leg Sweep
Utilt- Headbutt
Ftilt- Mid range Kick

Smash Attacks:
Dsmash- Breakdance(like Mario or Luigi)
Usmash- Kicks one leg above his head(frontward kick)
Fsmash- A huge punch like Mario's from 64

Aerial Attacks:
Dair- Pencil stance and spins(Like Falco's but in a stiff stance)
Nair- Split kick(both legs spread out as a split and he kicks)
Bair- Backwards Headbutt
Fair- Double Knee(you thought C.Falcon was good)

Special Attacks:
Down B- He can pull out a bomb or something...(like Link's)
Up B- Rapidly moves his legs to appear as running in the air
Side B- Running Phantasm

Recovery:
First jump- Like Luigi's but can get more vertical
Second Jump- Like Mario's
Up B recovery- Rapidly Moves legs to appears as running in air

Grabs:
Grab attack- Punches them in the face
Grab Dthrow- Throws them down and pummels his foot on them
Grab Uthrow- Throws him up with one hand
Grab Fthrow- Holds them out and pummels his foot in there gut
Grab Bthrow- Tosses them back then kicks them

Weight:
Probably a little more than Mario's weight

Taunt:
He sticks his thumb out while his teeth sparkle with a grin and has a bomb in his hand. The bomb blows up and makes him turn black and stuff with the smoke.

Final Smash:
He takes out a whole buch of Bomb-ombs and they frantically run around. They run into each other and combine to a huge Bomb-omb and Waluigi gives that laugh of his. Bomb-omb will be place in the middle of the stage(or wherever...depending on stage)Waluigi will set the fuse, and make an extreme jump. The bomb blows hitting anything within its radius then Waluigi jumps down, sticks his thumb out to the screen with a smirk on his face. His teeth then sparkle.

If I missed anything, please tell me. Waluigi can work. I made a Tingle and Waluigi moveset...that is hard to do!
PS- I had to make it purple.

Waluigi COULD work,certainly. But while your moveset is well conceived, nothing in it sees all that unique or interesting. That's not a dis towoards your moveset, it's just reflective of the character. Waluigi has a ton of personality, but since his appearances have been limited to Sports and Party games, there isn't much to draw from. I think Sakurai will hold off on including Waluigi in Braw until he appears in a game that's part of the Mario series cannon (ie: a platformer or RPG with a story) but in the mean time, he stands an excellent chance of being an Assist Trophy or a stage hazzard.

Well, I'm back for now, at least.

Anyway, in order:

Assist Trophies: Not too terribly impressed by these puppies. If they called in an actual character, y'know, with AI and stuff, it would've been better. But as it is, they're just a Pokeball ripoff. Goroh=Scizor, Dr. (Phoenix) Wright=Clefairy...etc,[/SEGWAY]

Smashville: What? When is Nook seen in the level?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Seanpuppy/yo.jpg

...I see no Nook.

Zero Beam : Expected. So long as there's an option (even a "hidden" one, like the Sheik A button trick in Melee) to play as Zamus without a Smash Ball...

Bowser: ...Yep, that's Bowser.

Among other things, the Zelda Medley is the best piece of music we've got so far, and I can't wait to see what stage necessitated it. Rumble Falls and Konga Beat make me so incredibly happy, if only because they show that Ninty knows which DK game rocks the hardest (hint: it wasn't made by Rare). Yoshi's gay. THE BUMPER'S BACK! I CALLED IT! And "This World..." is just...strange. It could be cool, but I don't want Smash clogged with some unnecessary storyline about evil LEGO people stealing collectible gashopon...

Aren't we forgetting someone? Someone whose name begins with an "R" and ends with an "egal"?

Best character in the game by far.

ATs: Yeah, but think of the hundreds of trophies in Melee. What if each and every character trophy you unlock becomes a useable AT? I think it's a great way of payage homage to a ton of cool Nintendo characters who didin't quite make the playable roster.

Nook: Egad! He's right!

Zero Beam: Hopefully that will be the case...

Bowser: I KNEW IT!!!

Zelda Music: Agreed. Can't wait to see that Zelda stage...

DK: I thought you'd be happy that Nintendo is paying homage to your favorite DK game.

Yoshi: Huh? What's wrong with Yoshi? were you expecting something like this:

Bumper: ... Yep, that's a bumper alright.

"This World": I agree. Did we really need an explanation for why Solid Snake is kicking the snot out of Pikachu and Mario? Smash Bros is a Multiplayer game, so I hope that's where Sakurai devoted the majoity of his attention.

Yes, its me. The Bomberman defender.
Here is my moveset. If it bores you, dont read it and simply flame me. Enjoy!


DJ Napps' Uber Moveset!

STATS:
Speed- ***
Size- ***
Weight- **
Jump- **
Reach- **
Strength- ***

A- Left-hand jab
AA- Right punch, Left punch
AAA- Strong Uppercut (w/ slight explosion)
Dash A- Head-dive- Bomberman rapidly dives, headfirst, straight ahead of him and headbutts his opponent.
A^- Upward fiery punch
AV- Heavy Stomp (slight explosion)
A<>- Strong kick


Nair- Hard Slap
Fair- Knee (Bomberman knees opponent in the face)
Bair- Double arm push
Uair- Flipkick
Dair- downward drop-kick

B- Drop Bomb- Hold B 2 secs to hold, continuous holding pumps bomb. If B is pressed when maxium bombs are placed, the bombs would detonate simultaneously.
B<>-Bomb Kick/ Soccer Bomb -if a laid bomb is in front of him, Bomberman kicks it forward and it rolls until it hit something. If Bomberman is not in front of a bomb, Bomberman quickly lays a bomb any kicks it while flipping over (like a famous soccer move). It flies through the air quickly and explodes on contact.
BV- Suicide Bomb- Bomberman slams a bomb beneath his feet, quickly flinging him upward and causing slight damage to him. Causes major damage to neighboring enemies
B^- Bomber Copter- Bomberman bursts upward with propeller spinning above him. He is able to fly around freely for around 10 secs.

Grab- Standard two hand grab
Grab Attack- general headbutt
^ Throw- Throws opponent into air and quickly throws a bomb at them
> Throw- Straps bomb to and throws opponent forward
< Throw- Throws opponent behind Bomberman (that's it)
V Throw- Slams opponent on ground on which, they explode on impact.

Final Smash-
Bomberman pumps a legendary Red Bomb to maximum size (around 2x the height of Bowser). Bomberman speed is greatly decreased and cannot jump when carrying the bomb. He is free to throw the bomb wherever he pleases, the bombs explosion radius affects everyone on the stage. Any player hit with the Bomb is instantly knocked off stage or is immobilized and dizzy (with stars flying around their head as in Bomberman 64).
Then, Bomberman jumps on the back of Pommy and rides around the stage with increased speed and jumping ability. He can drop as much as 10 bombs at one time and quickly as desired. Pommy is also able to attack opponents (i.e-biting). Duration: 15 secs.


Item: Virus! (Skull from Bomberman 64)
-Fire- user spontaneously combusts and is on fire for around 10 secs. User can touch other players which temporarily lits them afire (5 secs). Does damage overtime to user.
-Big- user becomes larger, heavier, and stronger, but slower and much lower jump.
-Small- user becomes smaller, much higher jumps, and faster, but weaker and more easily knocked away.
-Jammed- user cannot stop moving but its able to change direction and jump. Speed increases over time.
-Reverse- all controller moves are reversed. Up is crouch, Down is jump, B is A, etc.
-Ghost- user cannot receive or use physical attacks. User can now hijack an opponent and semi-control them.
-Stun- User can barely move, but can take slightly more damage.

Entrance- Rides in on his pet, Pommy. Pommy runs away scared right before the battle starts.

Kirby- Standard pink Kirby but with Bomberman eyes ( | | ) and antennae.

Taunt: Celebrates as in Bomberman 64

Costumes- (similar to Clark's)
White Bomber
Black Bomber
Red Bomber
Blue Bomber
Gold Bomber

Winning Poses-
1.Does backflip and smiles as in Bomberman Hero.
2.Jumps and punches air above him while smiling.

Notes-
-Only 4 bombs can be placed on the field at once.
-Other Bombermen can kick other Bombermen's bombs.
-Any attacks upon a bomb would explode immediately.
-If Bomberman lands on one of his bombs he will do a low bounce. Pumped bombs give him higher bounces.
-All Virus effects (except Fire) has a chance to be passed on to an opponent. Opponents with higher health percentage have a higher chance of receiving the Virus. Its duration is restarted everytime it is passed on.


I'm sure this didn't change your mind about changing Bonk to good 'ol Bman, but hey, its worth a shot....

FLAME!!!

Just kidding... XD

This moveset is very well done, and I could definitely see it working in Brawl. From your description, B-Man is the kind of solid character that I might main.

If he were a Nintendo owned character, I would say he were all but guaranteed. But with Snake as the resident explosives expert in Brawl, would Sakurai really go out of his way to get the rights to Bomerman? Maybe, maybe not. I'd say his strongest chance is if Hudson has specifically requested his inclusion in Brawl (which isn't too far fetched...).

Ironically enough, today at a Smash tourney, we had access to Bomerman DS - so I had a chance to play the series for the first time. I have to say, the gameplay is very frantic and addictive, so I can see why the series has lasted so long. QUESTION: should I buy Bomerman '93 on Virtual Console, or get one of the DS Bomermans?

Wow! Grade A. Seriously though, the Lloyd thing kindagainst made me tear up a bit. I would love to see him as an Assist Trophy. I can imagine Lloyd coming in from off the side with his wooden swords in hand doing a Sword Rain preforating anything in front of him. Or pulling a Temptest, flipping across the screen destroying Peach and her evil Parasol.

Hmmm.. maybe. AFter all, isn't Will Wright a third party character?

Congratulations Wiseguy on your first predicted newcomer.

Not that many of us really doubted Ike's chances.

Edit: though still no Meta Knight update? I would've thought we'd get him before a new newcomer. Guess Sakurai is back to being modest about his own characters again.

Thanks! I know pretty much every expected his inclusion, but it's still great to see the main character of one of my all time favorite RPGs in full Brawl-ified form. Ike is basically tied with Snake, at the moment, as my favorite newcomer. Seriously, how am I ever going to choose a main?

My guess is that Meta is an unlockable character, which would explain why he and Snake haven't recieved updates. I expect that we'll see the entire starting lineup before Sakurai moves on to the unloackables.

Any speculation yet as to whether Ike will be taking Marth's/Roy's place? Is Wiseguy's full prediction of them not returning true?

That Wiseguy is one smart dude. I expect ALL of his predictions to come true.

Could someone possibly post the Ike pics on here? Can't view them from work, and I've got a loooooong day ahead of me.

Also, one of Vagrant's earlier posts made me realize something. When you look at Pit's stage, notice how the 'ground' platform has the exact same pattern (repeated) as the floating, breakable platforms. Does anyone else (besides me) think that even the ground platform will break apart in segments?

I agree. It looks like the entire stage can be destroyed. Though I think that the thin cloud layer beneith the main platform can still be stood on.

Wiseguy, I can not believe that you called it again! Good work sir.

*Takes a bow*

Thank you, thank you. You're too kind.

Anyone with common sense would have called Ike...

Party pooper...

Well, it's been a few days since my last post, and I can see I'm already WAAY behind. This thread just moves so fast.

Anyway, this is addressed to Wiseguy: you called it. Although I've had no doubts that Ike was going to be in Brawl, I'll admit that I was sure he wasn't going to be the 6th new character revealed. I thought Olimar was a dead ringer for 6th place, but hey...
I don't know how you guessed Ike, but whatever line of logic you followed must've worked.

Still, that said, I've no doubt that Marth will be a returning character, and I'll eat my own shoe if he doesn't.
Actually, that sounds like a bad idea, I like my shoes.... Okay, it's settled, I'll eat your shoe if Marth isn't in.

Edit: Hey, I just remembered to check. The Fire Emblem symbol? It's still Marth's sword.

Now that Sakurai seems to have mvoed on to ACTUAL newcomers, my guess is that Olimar won't be far behind. I can't wait.

By the way Oyster, I recomend tenderizing the shoe before eating it. It makes it go down easier....

(Don't worry. I'll get to the sword symbol in a sec.)

^^Marth semi confirmed?

If the symbol is still his sword then that really ups his chances for being in the game.

Can you put Marth on your list while you changing Ike's status to confirmed? I think his chances are much more than 50% don't you.

I have to disagree. The way I saw it, there was a 50% chance of Marth returning and Ike taking the place as secondary FE character, and a 50% of Ike replacing Marth.

If Marth were returning, one would assume that he would be revealed first - since he has seniority. Since Ike was revealed first, I'd say that Marth's chances are about 15%.

By the way, didn't you predict that Sakurai would use the grown up GoD version of Ike to differentuiate him from Marth?

Looks like that hasn't happened. I think Ike has replaced Marth as the resident young, srawny FE lord with a big sword.

Well, I think I said earlier that if Ike was revealed before Marth, then it would probably mean that Marth isn't returning. Now that it's happened though, I'm actually not as confident about it, largely for 2 reasons.

1. Warning! Challenger Approaching! Granted, this could mean two things. That Ike is simply a new character and Sakurai is having a bit of fun with us (mindgamed again XD). It could however mean that Ike is an unlockable character, seeing as that's the phrase that pops up whenever a secret character is found. If Ike is unlockable, then it suggests that he's not the FE representative, as I'm fairly certain that FE will get a character on the starting roster, and if it's not ike, it most likely would be Marth.

The problem with this is that we have nothing conclusive that Ike is unlockable, and part of me strongly doubts it, as not only is he the first Fe rep shown on the website in any shape or form, there's still quite a bit of time before the game is released that releasing an unlockable character at this point is very strange. And because Ike is the first FE character revealed, coming before several veteran characters from SSb, Melee and Metaknight, there definitely is a case for Ike being on the starting roster.

I think you're jumping the gun a bit. "Warning! Challenger Approaching!" May be a phrase we associate with unlocking secret characters, but when you think about it it doesn't really mean anything. This is the first new character announced in over a year, so I think the wording is just Sakurai's way of getting people excited.

I'm not saying that Ike is FOR SURE a starting character, but the absense of Solid Snake suggests to me that Sakurai wants to reveal all the starting characters first. So, my inclination is that Ike is a starting character.

2. The otherpoint is the symbol. What made me less confident about Ike being the FE rep this time is that the FE symbol is still Marth's falchion blade, and i kind of expected it to change to the ragnell. Still, it could be that Sakurai is being lazy or reluctant to change it rather than update it to represent the current main Lord, not to mention the Falchion was the first Fe legendary sword and was used alongside the Fire Emblem itself, so it still has significance to the franchise even without Marth. Still, I think it would be odd for it to still be the symbol if the character who uses it is absent this time around, though I wouldn't say it guarantees Marth's return.

At the moment, common sense tells me that while Marth shouldn't be disregarded yet, I think he has taken a blow as far as his chances of returning are concerned. Guess we'll have to wait for the moment regarding Marth's return.

Still, Ike>Marth so if Ike is all we can expect for blue haired swordsman action then I'm not complaining.

Ah yes, the symbol. True, this symbol is the same shape as Marth's sword. But when you get right down too it, it's just a sword. Sure, the shape is different from Ike's but it still doesn't strike me as out of place. Afterall, was also Roy's symbol although he had no connection at all to Marth's universe.

I suspect that that Sakurai kept the Melee FE symbol for continuity's sake. But I agree: it's too early to tell for certain one way or another. Frankly, after seeing how awesome Ike looks, I'm fine with whatever Sakurai has in mind for the FE series.

I have an idea for a new stage
Super Mario 64

Start:You start on a simple platform out side the castle but then a flash of light appears while only chrarcters,items and the platfrom ans solid.

Part 1:Suddenly the backgrounds changes and you see King bobombs level. Four platforms appear going around the stage while the the main platfrom flys around the island.Sometimes the King make an apearance and throws bombs after a while another light appears.

Part 2:The backgrounds changes again to the second level whomps fortress this time no platforms but the main which is flying around the island. Every so often whomps(long ones)mold themselves out of the ground and walk towards the edge and fall off but if you get in the way they will crush you.The the light appears.

Part 3:The background is a still image of the first water level showing you the boat at the bottom of the level.Every so ofter canonballs are shot from the boat to the screen and must be avoided, thwn an appearance of the eel who swoops arcross the battle field going kleft to right or towards it from the boat.also there is two platforms that stay still.The only way to die here is by being chucked of the screen left or right or above.Another light appears.

Part 4:The snow level as such flys around the race track watching mario and the penguin race thoguh if mario is in the fight the mario on the slides costume changes.

Part 5:Again like the slide you are watching mario and bowser fight(the ballte scene does not stay the same it chooses 1 from 20 different battle scenes)

Part 6:Bug boos haunt will be fought at the top where boos will appear attaking players the can only be destroyed by jumping on the.An 20% chance big boo will appear and teleport u to a random part and carries you on from there.

Part 7:The molten lava land level if similar to the metroid levels though bullies appear and push players pff the edge.

Part 8: There is 1 platform in the middle that has sand coming down it if you jump into it u will be slowed down an appearance of the two rock hands and act like 2master hands.

Part 9:the level is turned into a maze where certen part of it are posione.The maze is a time were you cannot be knocked off the screen so damaged your enemies quikly.This maze is vertical on the screen so the game play stays the same.

Part 10: You are aboard bowsers sub fighting it out even the mast of it is solid so you can only be thrown to the right>

Part 11:The sams as part 5 though it is the second bowser fight.

Part 12:50%change large 50%percent small.if small you are inw wrigglers cave where wrigglers will attack only a single player(unlucky)below you can see mario gettint the red coins(10 different clips of mario getting the coins)if large u fightin on a random side of the island

Part 13:second snowman level.The snowmans head is on the right of the screen blowing out air the battle is hard becuase of this so u must always be running towards the head.if a heavy character though u can move freely so watch out light weights.

Part 14:The clock level is weird because the hand is coming into the stage and out plus the thwomp from above will fall as well if thats not enough the battle changes from fast to slow.there is two platforms.

Part 15:similar to ssbm rainbow ride but less of the boats riding.

Part 16:Like the other bowser levels.

Extra things to says.In every course mario will be in the background doing his 'thing'(20 different clips on each level)

The platforms are set to the level.

Startlatform is made of bricks ina similar pattern to the castel.
Part 1:Averge green grass and ground
Part 2:Made of whomps(the long ones)
Part 3:A watery effect
Part 4:Ice and blue ground
Part 5:Basic simialr to platform bowser and mario are fighting on.
Part 6:This battle is fought on the houses roff top.
Part 7:Lava looking effect.
Part 8:Made of bricks similar to pyrimid.
Part 9:the maze walls are brown wall clour with moss effect.
Part 10:Battled on sub.
Part 11:Similar to the platform bowser and mario are fighting on.
Part 12:small:similar to the floor that wriggler walks on(metal frames)
LARGE:fight on random aprt of the island
Part 13:snowy look instaed of dark caverns effect like last snowy level.
Part 14:The paltform is made of clock parts which are still working
Part 15:similar to ssbm
Part 16:Like other bowse levels

All part have been renderd to ssbb graphics

i hope u like it

Dude, that stage would be EPIC! I expect there are a ton of SM64 fans who would die of happiness if this stage were included. I love the idea. A similar OoT themed stage would also be rad.

My only worry is that a transforming stage like this might me the same ammount of work as designing a dozen normal stages. But hey, we can always hope....

I'll post this with the other stage ideas pronto.

Re-Edit, COMPLETE!!

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/ike/ike_070801e.jpg
((Couldn't resist. ))

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/GSIsaac.jpg

Isaac

Potential moveset by O D I N:

Height: 2/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Power: 3/5
Grab Range: 2/5
Running Speed: 3/5
Jump: 3/5
Falling Speed: 3/5


“A” Moves:

A: Isaac makes a quick slash with his sword in front of him. The move can be used as a rapid jabbing attack. It is faster than Marth’s, but slower than Roy's. The attack is similiar to Marth's current A attack.

F-tilt: Isaac performs a long, horizontal slash in front of him. Decent knockback, average damage.
U-tilt: Isaac swings his sword over his head, drawing across his body from back to front. The attack is strongest on the down swing, but has decent knockback when the attack hits above his body.
D-tilt: Isaac slams the ground in front of him with his palm, causing a minor tremor, and ripples the ground making rocks shoot out of the ground slightly. The foe trips. Little knockback, decent damage.

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Isaac crouches low. After the charge, Isaac lunges forward with a horizontal sweep. Strong knockback, very laggy after the hit. No follow up.
Up Smash: Isaac, brings his arms close to his body. After the charge, Isaac throws his arms up in the air, and rocks from the ground fly upward a short distance. The rocks do decent damage, but little knockback. Great for aerial counters.
Down Smash: Isaac brings his arms close to his body again, this time, looking at the ground. After the charge, Isaac slams his fists into the ground, causing a stronger tremor around his body. The area of effect is within a “foot and a half” of his body. The tremor is only slightly lower than Isaac’s height. Strong attack, decent knockback at an upward angle.

Aerials:

Nair: Isaac performs a flip in midair, bringing his sword in front of him. This attack is quick, little knockback, and has an attack radius from above his head (first frame) to behind him (last frame before leveling out). It’s a 180 degree attack range.
Fair: Isaac does a horizontal slash at slightly lower angle to his body. It’s a quick slash with good knockback and damage (Edit: Fair and Bair are the same. This attack will turn Isaac around).
Uair: Isaac raises his arm above him, using Psynergy to smack his opponent from below (think bowser Uair, only better range). The move is slow, and laggy, but has excellent range and knockback
Dair: Isaac kicks twice with his feet beneath him. 2 hits max. No knockback on the first hit, the second hit is a meteor smash. Low damage.

“B” Moves:

B : Venus Djinn
Isaac summons a Venus Djinn to fire a rock at his opponent. The rock will do 3-5% damage, knockback is average. Can be spammed, but it works like Falco’s laser, and has a projectory like it as well. There’s lag between each blast. Same projectory when in the air.

Towards B: Mars Djinn
Isaac summons a Mars Djinn to breathe fire upon his opponents. The Djinn stays in the spot it was summoned. The attack works like a fire flower. It lasts for a few seconds, and then the Djinn disappears, the fire gradually getting smaller with each breath. Isaac can't summon the Mars Djinn for about 4 seconds, as to prevent spamming (he's basically a pokeball).

Down B: Mercury Djinn
Isaac summons a Djinn to create a ice wall in front of him. This ice wall can be used to stand on, jump on, and can be picked up by stronger characters. It can be shattered after 20% damage has been done to it (based on characters, I.e. DK should have no problem shattering it). If an opponent is in front of Isaac while using this, the pillar causes some damage and knockback. While in the air, Isaac can use this to create a small sheet of ice beneath him, that floats in the air long enough (not long, like a second. It floats glowing as if it was just created) for Isaac (and other characters) to use a footstool jump off of it. After the move has been used, it takes 10 seconds before it can be used again, as it requires a lot of Psynergy to use, since Isaac is an Earth Adept. When attempted to be used after the first time, Isaac creates a splash of water, causing no damage, no knockback, and doesn’t effect the foe at all.

Up B: Jupiter Djinn
Isaac summons the Jupiter Djinn to propel him a large distance in any direction. The move’s range is farther than Falco’s, but shorter than Fox’s. It’s fast, and has no charge time. However, it deals no damage, and no knockback. It has low priority, so Isaac can be knocked out of it easily.


Final Smash: Grand Gaia
Isaac raises his arms into the air, the stage/arena shaking. The stage erupts with flying rocks and light pouring from the ground, dealing massive damage. Each rock counts as a hit, so it'll deal damage on a multiple hit level, rather than a one time massive damage hit. The range of the attack is based upon the size of the stage, not the screen. Also, the most damage is closest to the ground. The mid stage area (example: between the platforms on battlefield) is the weakest. Anything above the mid stage area is unaffected.

Grabs:
Isaac reaches out with both arms, and grabs his opponent. His reach is short.

Jab:
Isaac knees his opponent.

Fthrow:
Isaac shoves his opponent forward with both arms. Average knockback, average damage.

Uthrow:
Since Isaac is so tiny, and doesn’t have a lot of arm strength, Isaac uses his magic to use the ground as launcher. The ground beneath his opponent shoots up as a pillar of earth, propelling the opponent into the air. High knockback, decent damage. The pillar disappears after the throw.

Dthrow: Isaac shoves his foe to the ground, and pops him in the face 3 times. Multiple hitter, for 2-3% each hit. After the punches, the opponent slides forward from the 3rd hit, which is much like an uppercut, only horizontal. Low knockback. Damage is average. Highest damage out of throws, due to multiple hits.

Bthrow: Isaac uses his Psynergy to grab his opponent, and chuck him backwards. Highest knockback out of the throws.

Taunt: Isaac looks around him as the 4 Djinnii(?)(can’t remember what was plural and singular) dance about him quickly, and then quickly vanish.

Winning pose #1: Isaac sheaths his sword, and pants heavily, looking at the screen with a tired face.

Winning pose#2: Isaac looks around him as the Djinnii Swirl around him. The Djinnii and Isaac look at the screen, Isaac has a smile.

Winning pose#3: Isaac lowers his arms, and raises them high into the air, with a few rocks circling around him.

I think think you're moveset has a great balance of swordplay and magic, which is a must if he hopes to stand out in the army of swordfighters bucking for a spot in Brawl. I doo think that Issac stands a great chance of being included in Brawl. I'm in the considering removing one or two thrid party characters to make room for him...

Well... They ARE using the FE symbol from Melee. So it's possible that Marth could return.

But it's also possible they're justing using the symbol from Melee.

This does however boost the Black Knight's chances of getting into Brawl, seeing as how they were in the same game.

Thoughts on animal crossing: Did anyone ever consider Copper to be a PC? >_>

I know I'm biased, but after this update Black Knight as a second FE rep just FEELS right. To bad we probably won't learn about the unlockable characters for some time.

well if wiseguys predictions keep being right maybe we will see Captain olimar in there!

I really, really hope so! Olimar is my most wanted newcomer. If he's in, I'll be happy no matter what.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various02/various02_070628b-l.jpg

Squish that top part down. I think that it's a name that would normally go beneath a character's avatar on the select screen, but stretched out so it's more difficult to read. Anyone else think it says Olimar (sans the "r")? Just a thought. It's the closest I could come to a name that I could recognize.

Sorry dude, but the only thing I see are pixels.

Wiseguy Wins... Again.

thumbs up for his predictions.

Of course! I always win. (Well, except for Nook and Goroh...)

i think ike does look like a girl in smash

im the biggest fan of ike

he is above all of my char



http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/ike/ike_070801b-l.jpg




spacialy in this pic

I disagree. He's a bit scrawnier than I would have expected, but he's still plenty manly compared to the likes of Marth, Pit and Link. Of course, next to Snake everyone looks like a pansy.

O noes samus i going to blow his hand off (Better than slicing your own arm... *Looks at Ike's dad*)

(isn't Ike... Ike grail?)

Actually, I think Ike's father Grail SPOILERS:

Spoiler

just cut his tendons, in remorse for killing his wife. He didin't cut off his hand.

Still, that screen is pretty hilarious.

 

[Dark Sonic]

By the way, didn't you predict that Sakurai would use the grown up GoD version of Ike to differentuiate him from Marth?

Wait a minute. I thought you said Sakurai was using the most recent models for characters (You used Link and Zelda to debate against Shiek). If he used PoR Ike over GoD Ike then that means that the recentness of the character isn't as important.

I think Marth's chances improved from this update.

It's not that I have any sort of problem with Ike being in, It's just that I don't understand why Marth shouldn't be in.

I really hope FE gets 3 reps because then we could all be happy.

1.Ike
2.Marth
3.Black Knight.

 

[Wiseguy]

Wait a minute. I thought you said Sakurai was using the most recent models for characters (You used Link and Zelda to debate against Shiek). If he used PoR Ike over GoD Ike then that means that the recentness of the character isn't as important.

I think Marth's chances improved from this update. Ike seems like a hidden character from this update We previously thought that Sakurai would put updates on all the starting characters first, but this doesn't seem to be the case. What I'm refering to is the fact that Ike was introduced before Peach. Unless Peach is not returning, it seems that Sakurai is not releasing characters in any particular order.

Ah, but GoD hasn't been released yet (worldwide, anyway) so my argument stands. PoR is the character's most recent incarnation.

I still think that Sakurai is revealing all the starting characters first - and that Ike is a starting character.

EDIT:

Wait a minute. I thought you said Sakurai was using the most recent models for characters (You used Link and Zelda to debate against Shiek). If he used PoR Ike over GoD Ike then that means that the recentness of the character isn't as important.

I think Marth's chances improved from this update.

It's not that I have any sort of problem with Ike being in, It's just that I don't understand why Marth shouldn't be in.

I really hope FE gets 3 reps because then we could all be happy.

1.Ike
2.Marth
3.Black Knight.

That would make me happy. I'm not saying that anything is for certain at this point, but I think you should be prepared for the possibility that Marth has been cut. That's all.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I understand. Unfortunately things aren't looking as good for him as I had hoped. Marth is just such a fun and different character, but I guess his importance to the actual FE series has dimmed. I'm still rooting for him and will find any opportunaty to defend his inclusion though.

 

[RyuDragonKing]

I definately see Roy getting cut. He was my fav char, but he was only in there to promote his game, (Sakurai wanted a different Fire Emblem char) but I think Marth and the Black Knight stand a pretty good chance.

 

[Wiseguy]

I understand. Unfortunately things aren't looking as good for him as I had hoped. Marth is just such a fun and different character, but I guess his importance to the actual FE series has dimmed. I'm still rooting for him and will find any opportunaty to defend his inclusion though.

I'd be disappointed if you didn't. It's lively deabtes like these that make the wait for Brawl almost bearable.

I definately see Roy getting cut. He was my fav char, but he was only in there to promote his game, (Sakurai wanted a different Fire Emblem char) but I think Marth and the Black Knight stand a pretty good chance.

I'd love to see both appear, but with the F-Zero series seemingly only getting one rep again (unless someone other than Goroh appears as Falcon's rival) I'd say that one more FE character is most we can expect.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I think the Black Knight has a good chance of getting in, but I'm betting my socks he is an unlockable if he is in... just thought I'd pop in and mention that.

 

[OysterMeister]

I'd be disappointed if you didn't. It's lively deabtes like these that make the wait for Brawl almost bearable.

Well, this wasn't aimed at me, but assuming you haven't gotten sick of the color blue, I'd be more than happy to keep the dream alive.
So far as Marth is concerned, I don't think Ike hurts his chances of returning too much. The idea that Ike will replace Marth is dubious, as the only two things we know so far about Ike: his strength and his one-strike killing blow, are both better descriptions of ROY and how he was in Melee. I think Ike is the replacement for Roy, not for Marth.
And when considering Marth's chances, think of it like this: he DOES represent the Fire Emblem series. He may not help represent where it's going, but he certainly represents where it came from, and in a nostalgia-heavy game like smash, that has to count for something. Add to this the fact that he was popular enough in Melee to bring the FE series to the rest of the world, and you have a character who seems to have earned a space as a returning character. After all, we've got Ike to represent the new FE games now. Between Ike and Marth, we've got the whole FE series represented.

I'd love to see both appear, but with the F-Zero series seemingly only getting one rep again (unless someone other than Goroh appears as Falcon's rival) I'd say that one more FE character is most we can expect.

I agree. Fire Emblem doesn't really need that many characters to represent it. Unfortunaly, I think this hurts the Black Knights chances more than it does Marth's, as between the two of them I'd say Marth is still the better rep for the series, despite being retro.
Still, if the Black knight is an Ike clone, as you say, then his chances aren't hurt at all, as clones seems to be added based on their own unique set of rules.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Of course, we have yet to see anyone vaguely clonish, which is no surprise, since I'd expect those last, but Wiseguy seems to be running on the conviction that Sakurai regrets his clone days in Melee. Quite honestly, I'd love a completely original 40-char roster, but I'd be just as happy with a 37-original, 9-clone roster, if we go by the rules Wiseguy established. In fact, I should create a clone-inclusive roster as well as my original-only, and start another thread to hold them and the movesets for the impossible characters (Kefka/Kazooie/Kennedy love!).

Oh, and Wiseguy, I look forward to seeing the new update for the front page, and what you think of Ike, along with whatever other new updates appear, including shifts in your predicted roster.

 

[Wiseguy]

I think the Black Knight has a good chance of getting in, but I'm betting my socks he is an unlockable if he is in... just thought I'd pop in and mention that.

Agreed on both counts. BK would surely be unlockable, which means we won't know for some time if he has made the cut.

Well, this wasn't aimed at me, but assuming you haven't gotten sick of the color blue, I'd be more than happy to keep the dream alive.

Blue.... oh, how I dispise it!

(Kidding, kidding )

So far as Marth is concerned, I don't think Ike hurts his chances of returning too much. The idea that Ike will replace Marth is dubious, as the only two things we know so far about Ike: his strength and his one-strike killing blow, are both better descriptions of ROY and how he was in Melee. I think Ike is the replacement for Roy, not for Marth.
And when considering Marth's chances, think of it like this: he DOES represent the Fire Emblem series. He may not help represent where it's going, but he certainly represents where it came from, and in a nostalgia-heavy game like smash, that has to count for something. Add to this the fact that he was popular enough in Melee to bring the FE series to the rest of the world, and you have a character who seems to have earned a space as a returning character. After all, we've got Ike to represent the new FE games now. Between Ike and Marth, we've got the whole FE series represented.

That's a great argument for why Marth SHOULDN'T be cut. But now that we have now entered the phase of asking: "HAS be been cut"?

Marth is the Veteran character and the first lord in the series, and yet Ike was revealed first. This is an odd choice if Marth is playable in addition to Ike, but it makes perfect sense if Marth has been axed.

From all appearances, Sakurai is revealing the starting characters before he gets to the secret, unlockable characters. This would explain why Zelda, Bowser, DK and Yoshi were revealed before Snake and (possibly) Meta, as they are unlockable characters. Since Ike was revealed before the likes of Peach and Captain Falcon it would apear that he, and not Marth, is the starting FE character. This being the case, it is also likely that the FE Castle stage also belongs to Ike and is from PoR or GoD.

Obviously none of this is conclusive proof of anything, but combined with the emphasis on recent entires od long running series like Twilight Princess, Marth's chances dont look too hot st the moment.

I agree. Fire Emblem doesn't really need that many characters to represent it. Unfortunaly, I think this hurts the Black Knights chances more than it does Marth's, as between the two of them I'd say Marth is still the better rep for the series, despite being retro.
Still, if the Black knight is an Ike clone, as you say, then his chances aren't hurt at all, as clones seems to be added based on their own unique set of rules.

This is what it comes down to, in my view. Sakurai weighed factors such as popularity, uniqueness, importance to the FE series and the ease with which they could be programed into the game when considering which to include.

There are some strong arguments both in favor (popularity in Melee, first lord) and against (somewhat similar in appearance and stature to Ike, from Japanese only games) including Marth. We can argue which factors outweigh the others, but all that maters at this point is what Sakurai has decided. And depending on his point of view, he could be swayed in either direction.

Of course, we have yet to see anyone vaguely clonish, which is no surprise, since I'd expect those last, but Wiseguy seems to be running on the conviction that Sakurai regrets his clone days in Melee. Quite honestly, I'd love a completely original 40-char roster, but I'd be just as happy with a 37-original, 9-clone roster, if we go by the rules Wiseguy established. In fact, I should create a clone-inclusive roster as well as my original-only, and start another thread to hold them and the movesets for the impossible characters (Kefka/Kazooie/Kennedy love!).

Oh, and Wiseguy, I look forward to seeing the new update for the front page, and what you think of Ike, along with whatever other new updates appear, including shifts in your predicted roster.

I like the idea of having a ton of clones to beef up the character roster, but the presence of Goroh as an AT sort of threw a monkey wrench in that theory. Goroh was the perefect candidate for a Falcon clone - but it was not meant to be. That indicates to me that we'll likely see a smaller roster of 35-40 with very few clones and more than a hundred ATs.

I'm glad your looking forward to updates. I just added a new pic and some addition comments to Ike's profile.

 

[DonkeySmasher]

is it just me or is dk and yoshi much bigger then humans like ike and zamus

that is making me wonder about their strength and weight

of course being a dk and yoshi lover i will be ecstatic if they keep the same stats with a longer range

dk's range is incredible already now his arm is longer then ike's sword

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eT3PjnggGl4 (something i liked) not related to comment on top

 

[PyrasTerran]

That's a great argument for why Marth SHOULDN'T be cut. But now that we have now entered the phase of asking: "HAS be been cut"?

Marth is the Veteran character and the first lord in the series, and yet Ike was revealed first. This is an odd choice if Marth is playable in addition to Ike, but it makes perfect sense if Marth has been axed.

From all appearances, Sakurai is revealing the starting characters before he gets to the secret, unlockable characters. This would explain why Zelda, Bowser, DK and Yoshi were revealed before Snake and (possibly) Meta, as they are unlockable characters. Since Ike was revealed before the likes of Peach and Captain Falcon it would apear that he, and not Marth, is the starting FE character. This being the case, it is also likely that the FE Castle stage also belongs to Ike and is from PoR or GoD.

Obviously none of this is conclusive proof of anything, but combined with the emphasis on recent entires od long running series like Twilight Princess, Marth's chances dont look too hot st the moment.

This is what it comes down to, in my view. Sakurai weighed factors such as popularity, uniqueness, importance to the FE series and the ease with which they could be programed into the game when considering which to include.

There are some strong arguments both in favor (popularity in Melee, first lord) and against (somewhat similar in appearance and stature to Ike, from Japanese only games) including Marth. We can argue which factors outweigh the others, but all that maters at this point is what Sakurai has decided. And depending on his point of view, he could be swayed in either direction.

Now there's a possibility.

It's possible that Marth would join Jigglypuff and Luigi in the "always-unlockable" lineup. Remember when Melee first appeared, the grand lineup poster of the starting characters looking off into the sunset. Although Luigi and Jigglypuff were givens, they still were not officially mentioned until much later, isn't that right?

Since Fire Emblem is more mainstream now, it's possible for Ike to be a starter character for Fire Emblem.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I think you're jumping the gun a bit. "Warning! Challenger Approaching!" May be a phrase we associate with unlocking secret characters, but when you think about it it doesn't really mean anything. This is the first new character announced in over a year, so I think the wording is just Sakurai's way of getting people excited.

I'm not saying that Ike is FOR SURE a starting character, but the absense of Solid Snake suggests to me that Sakurai wants to reveal all the starting characters first. So, my inclination is that Ike is a starting character.

Yeah, I'm really starting to doubt that Ike is a secret character now. Apparently, the Japanese version had 'Ike Enters', which kind of shots down the 'Warning! Challenger Approaching!' banner being a spoiler warning, so it seems that Sakurai is just having fun. I also agree that it's incredibly early for Sakurai to reveal any unlockable characters when it's clear the starting roster hasn't been fully revealed yet.

Not to mention Ike has appeared in todays update so he can't be that much of a secret. Chances are he is indeed a starter then.

Ah yes, the symbol. True, this symbol is the same shape as Marth's sword. But when you get right down too it, it's just a sword. Sure, the shape is different from Ike's but it still doesn't strike me as out of place. Afterall, was also Roy's symbol although he had no connection at all to Marth's universe.

I think we can agree that Marth is the more important FE rep etween him and Roy, so they opted for his sword. Plus if the rumours are true and Sigurd was intended to be the other FE rep originally, then it would've worked seeing as their swords are practically identical. Still, I admit that the symbol can be used without Marth being there, just for sake of homage to the first game and that the main sword was used as the symbol for most FE games, so using the first legendary blade even without the first lord is acceptable.

I suspect that that Sakurai kept the Melee FE symbol for continuity's sake. But I agree: it's too early to tell for certain one way or another. Frankly, after seeing how awesome Ike looks, I'm fine with whatever Sakurai has in mind for the FE series.

Agreed, Ike looks awesome and even though I was positive that Ike would get in, it's still relieving to know he's in and looking awesome. Looks like I've found the first character I' going to use (sorry Pit).

Lol at todays update though. All this arguing over it being Akanea or Daein and it turns out to be a generic FE castle. Oh, Sakurai, how you mindgame us.

Though I do feel Marth's chances have been shot down further. Granted it's not Ike's stage, but it's not Marth's either, and he was kind of relying on it to be. Huh, just watch how tomorrows update is Marth as an AT.

 

[Pieman0920]

Ohhh Black Knight's chances just got a kick in the pants. Or at least as much as Tom Nook's.

BK identity Spoilers

Spoiler

Although it's supposed to not be based on an any particular Fire Emblem stage, you can notice that someone's in the background. That's clearly Zelgius, aka The Black Knight. Now maybe there's still hope, only on the lines of TN.

EDIT: The more I look at it the more I'm not quite sure. The figures share the same armor, and also he's in the same pose as the one you can see him in, in the official art. On the otherhand, there is no cape though, and you can't see his head.

 

[Shuma]

Actually the guy in the back has a red helmet, and since the Black Knight is... well black... i doubt it's him.

Although IIRC Zelgius has red armour, this guy has black armor and red helmet.

I think the inclusion of Ike opens the door for the BK if not in brawl then in SSB4. Why?

Ike seems to use the same model of Path of radiance, so i assume they just imported the model, gave it new animations, fx and stuff.

They could do the same with the BK, they don't even have to do a new model or anything, also with Ike in, if sakurai really whants more villains, then who else could be the FE villain?

Also, the Black Knight is Ike archnemesis, and if Sakurai knows about Ike, then he knows about the BK.

Now.... if Sakurai whant's to have only 2 FE chars... then i can see the BK becoming an AT. But... then Ike wouldn't have a Rival and Marth would stay. See, we cannot predict if the BK will be in or not. We must wait.

 

[Wiseguy]

is it just me or is dk and yoshi much bigger then humans like ike and zamus

that is making me wonder about their strength and weight

of course being a dk and yoshi lover i will be ecstatic if they keep the same stats with a longer range

dk's range is incredible already now his arm is longer then ike's sword

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eT3PjnggGl4 (something i liked) not related to comment on top

I noticed that as well. It'll be interesting to see how this influences their stats...

Now there's a possibility.

It's possible that Marth would join Jigglypuff and Luigi in the "always-unlockable" lineup. Remember when Melee first appeared, the grand lineup poster of the starting characters looking off into the sunset. Although Luigi and Jigglypuff were givens, they still were not officially mentioned until much later, isn't that right?

Since Fire Emblem is more mainstream now, it's possible for Ike to be a starter character for Fire Emblem.

That's a POSSIBILITY, I'll grant you that.

Yeah, I'm really starting to doubt that Ike is a secret character now. Apparently, the Japanese version had 'Ike Enters', which kind of shots down the 'Warning! Challenger Approaching!' banner being a spoiler warning, so it seems that Sakurai is just having fun. I also agree that it's incredibly early for Sakurai to reveal any unlockable characters when it's clear the starting roster hasn't been fully revealed yet.

Not to mention Ike has appeared in todays update so he can't be that much of a secret. Chances are he is indeed a starter then.

Agreed. Interesting faact about the Japanese version...

I think we can agree that Marth is the more important FE rep etween him and Roy, so they opted for his sword. Plus if the rumours are true and Sigurd was intended to be the other FE rep originally, then it would've worked seeing as their swords are practically identical. Still, I admit that the symbol can be used without Marth being there, just for sake of homage to the first game and that the main sword was used as the symbol for most FE games, so using the first legendary blade even without the first lord is acceptable.

You bring up good points.

I've heard that Marth's blade appears in several other non-Marth games as well. Kniw if there' any truth to that?

Agreed, Ike looks awesome and even though I was positive that Ike would get in, it's still relieving to know he's in and looking awesome. Looks like I've found the first character I' going to use (sorry Pit).

Lol at todays update though. All this arguing over it being Akanea or Daein and it turns out to be a generic FE castle. Oh, Sakurai, how you mindgame us.

Though I do feel Marth's chances have been shot down further. Granted it's not Ike's stage, but it's not Marth's either, and he was kind of relying on it to be. Huh, just watch how tomorrows update is Marth as an AT.

After this update, I think it's a safe bet that there is one more FE character. Notice how he says: "This stage represents the Fire Emblem world." Rather than "this is Ike's stage." Or am I going nuts?

Ohhh Black Knight's chances just got a kick in the pants. Does that make sense, or at least as much as Tom Nook's.

Spoilers

Spoiler

Although it's supposed to not be based on an any particular Fire Emblem stage, you can notice that someone's in the background. That's clearly Zelgius, aka The Black Knight. Now maybe there's still hope, only on the lines of TN.

Sigh.... I shouldn't have read that spoiler...

Perhaps you should have been more specific as to the nature of your spoiler, like "the Black Knight's identity is revealed here." Oh well.

Anyway, although there are many suits of armour standing in the background I don't think there is anyone in them. They are just empty suits of armour. Besides, you can't see any of their faces - so you are jumping the gun.

 

[Pieman0920]

Zelgius and this guy have the same armor though. And there is that pose..

EDIT: Bah, I can't get any of my links to work on this site. It's the exact same pose, and golden sword. ;_;

 

[Wiseguy]

Zelgius and this guy have the same armor though. And there is that pose..

Circumstantial evidence at best. We don't even know if anyone is in the armour. Wait until we see more of the stage, then we can speculate further.

 

[Shuma]

Wait, you mean the guys standing there?

Those are just soldiers, i was speaking about the guy in the throne, i nthe background.

 

[Pieman0920]

I was talking abotu teh guy off to teh right of teh picture kinda by himself.

I guess it may be to early to jump the gun, but the guy does have the same armor, pose, and sword as him. >_>

Then again, I think Tom Nook could get in despite his background apperance. :O

 

[Wiseguy]

Wait, you mean the guys standing there?

Those are just soldiers, i was speaking about the guy in the throne, i nthe background.

It matters not. Those are just generic soldiers in red armour. And since we can't know if any of these individuals are a specific person (all their faces are obscured) this tells us nothing about the Black Knight.

 

[Shuma]

No, that's just a Soldier, the Black Knight's armor isn't like that.

Edit:

Look, the armor isn't the same.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TD045DChGSY

 

[Wiseguy]

I was talking abotu teh guy off to teh right of teh picture kinda by himself.

I guess it may be to early to jump the gun, but the guy does have the same armor, pose, and sword as him. >_>

Then again, I think Tom Nook could get in despite his background apperance. :O

If we knew that one of these people was BK, then it would be a fair comparison. Fact is, we don't.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm not talking about the BKs armor, I'm talking about Zelgius. >_>

 

[Wiseguy]

I'm not talking about the BKs armor, I'm talking about Zelgius. >_>

But we don't know if that person is Zelgius. Until we learn otherwise, it's just a dude in red armour. Any similarities could be purely cooincidence.

 

[Shuma]

Another Video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xjd_gB2HUFY

The armor doesn't even look like the BK.

 

[Pieman0920]

Granted, but it'd be a big coincidence. He's a perfect match for Zelgius's official art, outside of the cape, and the fact you can't see his head.

But I'll drop the debate. No need to keep this up.

EDIT @ Shuma: I'm talking about Zelgius's armor. >_0

Someone's gott apost that art, since I can't for some reason.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

It's not him. It might be based off him somewhat, but seeing as Sakurai pointed out that it isn't particularly based on a single castle/game, it'd be odd to then include a specific character from a certain game.

I've heard that Marth's blade appears in several other non-Marth games as well. Kniw if there' any truth to that?

Well, the Falchion itself appears in both FE1 and FE3, seeing as they are both centered on Marth. There is also a sword in FE4 that looks similar to it called the Tyfring, used by Sigurd and Celice. The other legendary swords are a bit different in design, but follow the pattern of only being used by the main lord of the game, so you could probably say they are the Falchion in spirit.

After this update, I think it's a safe bet that there is one more FE character. Notice how he says: "This stage represents the Fire Emblem world." Rather than "this is Ike's stage." Or am I going nuts?

True, it did regard Angel Land as Pit's hometurf, so the fact that the stage represents the whole of the FE world and not just Ike. I wasn't in much doubt that we'd get a 2nd FE rep though, seeing as it already had 2 in melee.

I'm interested in what's in the underground though. Curse Sakurai for being enigmatic as always ><