ZSS vs Kirby MatchUp, advice please.

[Legend Vermillion]

Hello, im having trouble with this matchup being ZSS, would be great if I get some advice! I would appreciate general advice but I will say what are my main problems in the matchup:

- His dash attack is insane, i cant punish it. Only way I found was reading it and bair it from a distance.
- Little hitbox for combos
- How to approach?

Thanks in advance!

 

[G13_Flux]

well, you outrange kirby a lot. you also have a great projectile. i reccomend lots of stun shots to take care of his grounded approaches, as well as spaced dsmashes and side bs (use these in conjunction with pivots to really increase your overall positioning skills with these). nairs and bairs can be used defensively to great effect. ZSS doesnt need to be particularly aggressive in this MU, as letting kirby come to you and trying to bait him can be very effective provided you use your spacing tools smartly (neutral b, side b, dsmash, nair, and bair as the main ones). this should take care of the problems you are seeing with his dash attack.

as far as combing goes, its going to be difficult because hes so small and floaty. theres no avoiding that. hes also pretty good at getting out of juggles between nair and down b. so try to think about those options he has and when he will try to use them. you will get a lot of punishes and kill set ups by using the spacing options i mentioned earlier, so dont be afraid to discontinue a juggle you think he might escape for favor of attempting to land one of your grounded options.

 

[cannedbread]

kirby can't get inside of zero besides dash attack. don't approach him from the air. bait dash attack and challenge it with dsmash or plasma whip. put kirby in the air and uair until he dies. stay aware of downb. if he stones all the way to the ground, punish that little de-stoning animation with something fast like dsmash or bair or uair. if he stones and de-stones halfway through while still in the air, just wait until he's in plasma wire distance and try to bring him down. if he's offstage trying to recover, just dsmash. it's pretty free when you get the hang of it.

 

[steelguttey]

do you know how to shuffle? basically its;

1. short hop forward
2. neutral air + fast fall
3. l cancel

and if you do that combined with random neutral b's you can gimp him out of what hes try to do. dont try to go for grabs unless you KNOW you can get one, kirby's punishing game is real tough. when recovering, use down b to not get gimped. also, his dash attack is punishable by jumping back, then grabbing him. if he does it from really far away, just toss out a side- b. go into training mode and practice against that dash attack. you shouldn't be trying to combo kirby, you should be trying to reset him. things like up throw- up b gives great options for tech chasing and you just need to find ways to link moves together. generally, just use all of your disjoints against him, he cant do anything against those.

 

[TimeSmash]

A question that is stupid but I have to ask:

Can you grab Kirby out of dash attack? Sometimes I try and it fails, but it might be because I'm grabbing too late. thanks!

 

[pinkdeaf1]

well, you outrange kirby a lot. you also have a great projectile. i reccomend lots of stun shots to take care of his grounded approaches, as well as spaced dsmashes and side bs (use these in conjunction with pivots to really increase your overall positioning skills with these). nairs and bairs can be used defensively to great effect. ZSS doesnt need to be particularly aggressive in this MU, as letting kirby come to you and trying to bait him can be very effective provided you use your spacing tools smartly (neutral b, side b, dsmash, nair, and bair as the main ones). this should take care of the problems you are seeing with his dash attack.

as far as combing goes, its going to be difficult because hes so small and floaty. theres no avoiding that. hes also pretty good at getting out of juggles between nair and down b. so try to think about those options he has and when he will try to use them. you will get a lot of punishes and kill set ups by using the spacing options i mentioned earlier, so dont be afraid to discontinue a juggle you think he might escape for favor of attempting to land one of your grounded options.

Fake outs with b-reverses also help with the above-mentioned spacing game. Short hop around when approaching or being approached.

Also move around a lot. B-down's is not easily dealt with by kirbys, nor is the b-down kick bad to use. Just don't use it too much. Hitting a kirby in the air with that kick is also effective if there is a threat of being juggled or any other situation where both of you are in the air.

I find this tactic somewhat effective: juggle opponents with an up-air --> Use b-up when they get too high ---> down-smash as they come down ----> F-smash combo finisher, or start another combo if you know one to use at high percents. Kirby should not be able to easily avoid b-up.

 

[jeck95]

well, you outrange kirby a lot. you also have a great projectile. i reccomend lots of stun shots to take care of his grounded approaches, as well as spaced dsmashes and side bs (use these in conjunction with pivots to really increase your overall positioning skills with these). nairs and bairs can be used defensively to great effect. ZSS doesnt need to be particularly aggressive in this MU, as letting kirby come to you and trying to bait him can be very effective provided you use your spacing tools smartly (neutral b, side b, dsmash, nair, and bair as the main ones). this should take care of the problems you are seeing with his dash attack.

as far as combing goes, its going to be difficult because hes so small and floaty. theres no avoiding that. hes also pretty good at getting out of juggles between nair and down b. so try to think about those options he has and when he will try to use them. you will get a lot of punishes and kill set ups by using the spacing options i mentioned earlier, so dont be afraid to discontinue a juggle you think he might escape for favor of attempting to land one of your grounded options.

I agree with this for the most part. Defensive nairs, spaced moves like side-b, d-smash, f-smash, etc, are good against dash attack. Stun gun helps in the neutral too.

do you know how to shuffle? basically its;

1. short hop forward
2. neutral air + fast fall
3. l cancel

and if you do that combined with random neutral b's you can gimp him out of what hes try to do. dont try to go for grabs unless you KNOW you can get one, kirby's punishing game is real tough. when recovering, use down b to not get gimped. also, his dash attack is punishable by jumping back, then grabbing him. if he does it from really far away, just toss out a side- b. go into training mode and practice against that dash attack. you shouldn't be trying to combo kirby, you should be trying to reset him. things like up throw- up b gives great options for tech chasing and you just need to find ways to link moves together. generally, just use all of your disjoints against him, he cant do anything against those.

Nair can get crouch canceled so it is pretty good for anti-airs and punishing dash attack.
Kirby is a little weird to combo, up-b is a good combo/reset tool against kirby. I tend to uair to up b then reset or continue comboing depending on di. Getting a dair setup from a grab is a good combo too. Jab to utilt is useful too especially on platforms when kirby is in the air (this doesn't work when kirby crouch cancels). D-tilt starts combos too unless they crunch cancel.
Last tip against kirby, don't approach if they are near the ledge and never let them get the lead. If they get the lead in stocks, you are going to be facing kirby that camps the ledge. Kirby can gimp zss pretty easily. You have to play patient against kirby because he's a testicle.

 

[TimeSmash]

I also advise staying away if they are near the ledge. Kirby's down air can prove disastorous, as well as the fact they will attempt to Kirbycide you (or at the very least suck you up and do that weird grab release thing) as well if they are a stock ahead