ZSS Quasi Pillar-like thing.

[Geop]

This was a message I sent to The Great Leon regarding his ZSS guide.
I was too lazy to rewrite and edit it

Alright, first off sorry if this was already mentioned and debunked but after reading your guide today, I decided to try out ZSS for the first time. I've been playing DDD a lot and so, I kept grabbing by accident and wondered if there was any use for it.

Well, you have already mentioned the "noob strat" of neutral B-ing and grabbing when the opportunity arises, so I figured maybe I can make use of this somehow. In short, I tried something, but it has a big gaping hole. Okay, here we go.

First you start off neutral b-ing (possibly by weak spam until they dodge or shield, OR by Short Hopped Charged Neutral B's)

Now when you see the opportunity, just grab or dash shield grab, whatever the situation requires.

Next, you Down Throw, then IMMEDIATELY use Down+B and using the kick to knock 'em back down. I have yet to try anything else after this point.

It's not much, but it adds a bit to the whole grabbing game, I guess.

But, this is pretty risky. I tried it on some lvl 9 CPUS (I don't have any friends ) and this is EASILY punishable with a quick aerial, therefore s best used on people with slow aerial attacks, such as Ike. Other people I tried:
(keep in mind it is lvl 9 CPUs and I don't know how they DI)

Meta Knight: Virtually impossible to do
Kirby: possible until a certain percent
Pikachu: possible until 90's maybe? I dunno
Ike: Not sure, but should be easy as most of his aerials have a bit of start of lag
King Dedede: can take out the dair really quick, but possible if he doesnt
Ganondorf: can also take that dair out and punish baaad. I think he was sent too high at about 90's?

So in conclusion:
Although this is not a true combo, there is a very little amount of hitstun between the Down throw and the Down B kick, and as such can be used on an unsuspecting opponent (or Ike ? )
Probably should NOT be overused, as like I said, it can be easily punished when they suspect it.

This needs more testing however, 'specially against other characters and on other human players.

LOL I wrote so much, it'd be disappointing if this was already debunked But, like I said this is my first time in the ZSS area, so whatever

 

[DeliciousCake]

I can't think of any practical usage for this yet, but I'll test it out later tonight during a Brawl session. You'd probably end up having to tech chase since they're going to be smashed into the ground.

 

[anoobis]

I was trying to do this today and I couldn't get it to work for some reason... maybe because I was angling the second part of the down b inward...What I was trying was up b to down smash to up b down smash to down throw to down b b to be a possible finishing combo it didn't work out though :\

 

[The Great Leon]

I tried this near the ledge. It looked super sexy and would kill around 30%. However, any DI on the down throw ruins this If there was no DI Zamus would be too good. As it is, theres a lot of cool tricks I can only use on my brother and computers. I tried it on wifi last night against 5 or so people and they all DI'd back towards me. More to come.

 

[Geop]

I tried this near the ledge. It looked super sexy and would kill around 30%. However, any DI on the down throw ruins this If there was no DI Zamus would be too good. As it is, theres a lot of cool tricks I can only use on my brother and computers. I tried it on wifi last night against 5 or so people and they all DI'd back towards me. More to come.

Eh, I figured as much. And I guess it's not likely that someone won't DI when they notice they've been grabbed.

Was that DI apparant enough to react and up B? (yeah sorry if the answer is obvious, I'm still a newb Zamus )

 

[The Great Leon]

DI is amazing in Brawl. In melee, if you were teaching a noob about DI you'd say "see how you move back a little bit?" and they'd reply with something along the lines of "yeah so?". In Brawl, IIRC, Zamus' down throw puts them at a trajectory in line with Down B, if they DI away they gain about twice the horizontal distance, and if they DI towards you they go perfectly vertical. Now I'm not the one doing the DI, but that's how it works, i think.

If they DI towards you on the down throw they will go over your head. If they don't air dodge and you turn around, then yes you can hit an Up B. However a down throw to Up B spike isn't plausible afaik.

 

[anoobis]

Well, if u dthrowed perfectly at the edge wouldn't it send them across it and up and possibly set up for an up b spike? Also, by just standing on the edge (where zamus does the almost falling over animation) is it possible to spike with up b by just standing there and pressing it when a player is close to the edge and above you?

 

[The Great Leon]

If you mean roll to the edge and face the stage, they'd probably DI back towards the middle. Who wants to put themselves in a poor position? If you mean grab them while they're recovering, I guess that might work, but that seems difficult to arrange. It is possible to spike from on the stage, but they have to DI wrong for it to work. So its kind of their DI killing them, rather than your attack. Don't forget about ******** air dodge too. Air dodge > *
And IIRC, if you run off the ledge and Up B it will grab the stage right away.

 

[anoobis]

If you mean grab them while they're recovering, I guess that might work, but that seems difficult to arrange. It is possible to spike from on the stage, but they have to DI wrong for it to work. So its kind of their DI killing them, rather than your attack.

What do you mean DI wrong? Is there a way to DI out of the whip pulling the person down?

 

[The Great Leon]

When someone's getting pulled down by the Up B I believe they can change the angle at which they are spiked. It might have to do with aerial momentum, put I'm pretty sure its DI. No DI is straight down. Left or right is at a small angle to either direction. If the person DI'd away from the stage, then they would DI past the ledge and 'spike themselves.'
For a horrible example, you can watch the super awesome Husband Combo at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4U_RgqT6sE
If they DI away from the stage they will barely miss the ledge like that.

 

[anoobis]

I see I'm having one of my better smash friends come over today I'll be sure to test this and get back to you in this thread.

Edit:
Indeed up b can be DIed out of. However, it is possible to see which direction they did di to and turn around and dsmash them to continue comboing I did this about 5 times today against a friend who was playing lucario and ike. Also, the tether does spike perfectly if they're recovering. It can be 'meteor cancelled' at lower percentages.

Another edit as I was reading over your reply: You have to catch the person with the very edge of the whip so they cannot DI out of it it's pretty much impossible at that point cuz you'll just hit the edge of the stage but not grab it.