ZSS against Defensive Players?

[Supersmashbrothers.]

So I always used ZSS but I never really considered her my main until this week, I registered in a rather crowded tournament and was one fight away from advancing to the finals. This person used Villager and I lost to him. Which got me thinking about what made me lose. When I look back at it, all the people that I dominated in the tourney didn't seem to be defensive. At least not enough. So I was wondering, playing against defensive players with ZSS, what approach do I make?

 

[David Viran]

Depends on the character. Villager PS sling shots and stay remotely close and he can't use lyod or you can just dash attack him. Honestly a lot of characters just straight can't camp you out because you can camp with mobility harder.

 

[Raisin]

Yeah, possible the only characters that can camp ZSS would probably be Rosalina and maybe Sheik. I got camped pretty hard by a Sheik in tournament on Battlefield and I didn't really find a solution yet.
I'm sure there's SOMETHING I can do, but at that time, I could do nothing. As for the rest of the cast, ZSS is so fast and mobile, you can camp better with speed than they can by standing still.

 

[David Viran]

Yeah, possible the only characters that can camp ZSS would probably be Rosalina and maybe Sheik. I got camped pretty hard by a Sheik in tournament on Battlefield and I didn't really find a solution yet.
I'm sure there's SOMETHING I can do, but at that time, I could do nothing. As for the rest of the cast, ZSS is so fast and mobile, you can camp better with speed than they can by standing still.

Yeah I heard @Shaya talking about sheik camping. He said that FD is a good stage against a campy sheik.

 

[Raisin]

Yeah I heard @Shaya talking about sheik camping. He said that FD is a good stage against a campy sheik.

I thought that would have been the case, but the guy I played banned FD during our set, so I didn't know where else to take him. ;-;

 

[David Viran]

I thought that would have been the case, but the guy I played banned FD during our set, so I didn't know where else to take him. ;-;

Probably should have went T&C because sheik doesn't benefit from the platforms that much.

 

[Muffin!]

I think I've come to the conclusion that penetrating good defense is ZSS main weakness. Her grab is so slow and punishable that if they read you're approach, you will get punished. She doesn't have many good options for punishing rolls, and she's not particularly good at counter camping. I think the key to winning a defensive matchup is getting really good reads and being unpredictable, especially in your approach. You gotta learn to use her entire toolset creatively rather than falling into patterns. Of course, that's good advice for any matchup but it's particularly important for ZSS vs. defense.

Also jab. Frame 1 jab is great for punishing dropped shields.

 

[Raisin]

Probably should have went T&C because sheik doesn't benefit from the platforms that much.

I'll remember that from now on lol.

I think I've come to the conclusion that penetrating good defense is ZSS main weakness. Her grab is so slow and punishable that if they read you're approach, you will get punished. She doesn't have many good options for punishing rolls, and she's not particularly good at counter camping. I think the key to winning a defensive matchup is getting really good reads and being unpredictable, especially in your approach. You gotta learn to use her entire toolset creatively rather than falling into patterns. Of course, that's good advice for any matchup but it's particularly important for ZSS vs. defense.

Also jab. Frame 1 jab is great for punishing dropped shields.

Is it really 1 frame?

 

[theyellowflash26]

Is it really 1 frame?

yes and its beautiful.

 

[fadgames]

The main two people I play against are Tink and Villager mains. To say that I feel your pain on this is an understatement.

But more to the point, I usually just find that going in is worth way more of your time than letting them set up camp. When Tink dictates the neutral with bombs and boomerangs, I mix it up by approaching above or with the blaster (to cancel arrows/rangs). If Villager sets up a tree I'm in there with a dash. I think the most pressing matter is that you outspeed these characters in every aspect, so you should be pushing your strengths rather than conceding to theirs.

Easier said than done, obviously, but that's just my two cents.

 

[speedguy20]

So I always used ZSS but I never really considered her my main until this week, I registered in a rather crowded tournament and was one fight away from advancing to the finals. This person used Villager and I lost to him. Which got me thinking about what made me lose. When I look back at it, all the people that I dominated in the tourney didn't seem to be defensive. At least not enough. So I was wondering, playing against defensive players with ZSS, what approach do I make?

Try using FF Nair to either jab or grab. Works a lot with falcon, so I'm assuming it'll work with Zamus

 

[andrebound]

How do you fight peach? She's so hard to approach.

 

[theyellowflash26]

How do you fight peach? She's so hard to approach.

Catching her when she floats is a good option. She can't shield. You can pressure her with zair and your aerials to keep her in check.

 

[Aetheri]

Learn to use different mix-ups with ZSS...is your opponent shield camping? And are punishing your grab attempts? try mixing it up with a pivot grab to catch their spot dodges...or just pressure their shield from a distance with your projectiles and reach...sometimes jumping past them and hitting with a bair even if they still block you'll be harder to punish since you're now behind them...

Be unpredictable with ZSS, try to bait counters, reflectors, and projectiles and punish with a down B...learn to pivot dsmash to cover rolls or pivot ftilt and fsmash...do not try to grab to often unless you confirm hits with dsmash and paralyzer...also remember to up B or utilt out of shield to punish their attacks as well...

 

[Glyphagos]

Bore them out with your better mobility to force them to take risks.

 

[Supersmashbrothers.]

Bore them out with your better mobility to force them to take risks.

Haha, that's exactly what was being done to me! However I have improved in the past... couple of months? And I'd say I got pretty good with her

 

[Glyphagos]

Haha, that's exactly what was being done to me! However I have improved in the past... couple of months? And I'd say I got pretty good with her

Awesome bro! I'm glad to hear that :D