Zone control discussion

[Fugue]

Because the Pope is correct.
I like forcing the opponent to play the match under my terms, and Lucario is good at that. So let's start discussing ways to do so.


To get started: Neutral B.
How should Aura Sphere be used? I honestly don't know. I've tried both saving it as a kill move Melee Samus-style, and spamming it as a zoning/gtfo tool arrow-style, and most of the things inbetween, but I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it as well as I can. Most people seem to be saying it's best to spam it for control and rushdown, but that's the extent of my knowledge on the subject.

Should it be something that I want on-screen at all times? Just whenever I think I need some space? Should I change how I use it at high/low percentages? Is it better to use it during shorthops than on the ground when possible? What are the specs on characters with reflectors, so I can adjust properly?

Feel free to ask questions or give answers, regardless of skill level. Even if you end up being wrong, at least you'll know not to do it in the future, right?

 

[Ionizer]

I like keep a fully charged 'sphere with me at all times. I'll usually launch a few "babies" right after my charged one to keep them off guard/give me time to recharge. I never use it to damage while charging it (I'm pretty sure that you shouldn't). I tend to use them more sparingly and as kill moves as my damage climbs and they get stronger.

Favorite tactic: Launching a fully charged Aura Sphere into a dashing opponent when they're a foot out of range of their dash attack.

 

[Rebonack]

Against opponents with a reflector it's best chuck it at them after they're stunned. Using it up as a follow up with Fair is generally a good idea. If you fire from a distance you're just asking to have it throw back at you.

Exactly how you use mini-spheres really depends on who you're fighting. But tossing out short-hopped spheres and as well as partly charging the spheres to throw off dodges and rolls is also helpful.

 

[Psilent]

This is pretty long, so if you're going to read all of it know a few things: this is not a guide, this is not the only way to use AS. This is meant more to show the psychological side of zoning that can be applied to many characters who use pressure tactics like Lucario. It is not perfect by any means, so critique away. If you read the whole thing there will be parts where you think "oh hey this is easily countered by this!" Of course there are tons of ways to counter/work around an AS. Any critiques are also much appreciated, but don't go trolling with flames. If there's a critique, back it up with suggestions, that's how we all get better

In terms of Aura Sphere use, I typically change it during the course of a match because peoples' strategies change during a match.
I always start off by trying to get off a charged aura sphere, just because, hey, that's nice chunk of damage if you get it off!

Then I look at the person I'm playing. Some players when they start are hyper offensive, trying to get off all the fun little chain-grabs or flashy combos they can to get you racked up. This is why I normally, after firing my first AS and trying to get off a few of my own strings, I sit back and start spamming BAS for a little while. Not too long, but just long enough to get them to act how I want them to act towards me, cautious.
If someone starts the match by coming at you like a mad-man and you start get distance and start firing off BAS you're doing three things. 1) As the BAS' land you're racking them up (good thing!) 2) you aren't in AS much danger of getting an early pummeling and 3) you're making them play on YOUR TERMS.

This is great because once someone is worried about how you're playing them, they are adjusting, more defensive. This is when you can start imposing yourself on them, because they will be in a "react" mode as long as you keep them pressured.
They may try to get some distance between you two, in which case you can either keep up the offensive pressure, OR charging your AS. This is nice because if they rush you to stop your charge you can DTC (double-team cancel) your charge and really freak them out! Or they could let you get the full charge, and that's just asking for it! It also adds to your head-game.
Having this full charge once again puts them on the defensive because they will constantly have "O noz he has teh blue-balls of doom!" demon in the back of his head.

Now you can just go about your game how you normally would! Of course I'd be a bloody fool to think that this is the only way to use AS, but I find that spamming BAS in the beginning when people are most fearless and then holding a charged AS at enemy launch %'s is a great way of getting into peoples' heads.

Obviously this isn't applicable for against every character (space animals, etc) but it is one of many great ways to throw an opponent off his/her game! I think the important part in using any sort of pressure tactic (grenades, missile, what have you) is to use discretion. You obviously can't spam against a fox or a zelda, that'd be stupid. You have to be able to dish the pain once the time comes, and if there is one thing Lucario is amazing at it is bringin the pain!

Are there any other tactics you guys use when it comes to zone control?

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

You'll want to spam AS against anyone with no projectiles or projectiles that are outmatched by baby aura spheres. Standing AS spam is well and good most of the time, as long as you use that time to study approach patterns so you're ready when they come your way. Short hopping an aura sphere then another one while you land can be good against larger opponents who cannot exactly close the gap in a quick fashion, as it covers a lot of space and limits their options well. Keep in mind that the short hop method's safeness is relative to the distance between you and the opponent as well as their approaching speed.

Against opponents with better projectiles for spam (Pit, R.O.B., Falco, Wolf, Fox, Samus, Peach, Dedede, etc.), you'll not be allowed the privilege to sit back and spam. Instead, you will relegate baby aura spheres to approach duty, which means using them selectively to disrupt enemy spam while you can get to a distance where their projectile is neutralized and you can begin to harass them with disjointed hitboxes on your tilts and smashes and aerials. These matchups tend to be drawn-out wars of attrition, and is my personal least favorite type of match.

There is a third type of matchup in which baby aura sphere use should be held back as most as possible. There aren't many of these, in fact it's really only three. Lucas and Ness can really make you pay for what would have been meager benefits anyway. A projectile dealing about 6-8% most of the time for some reason heals them 15-20%, which can be extremely frustrating. The other is G&W, who has the same kind of hyperbolizing effect with his bucket, only instead of healing you give him a super quick attack that should deal about 30%. Giving this guy more options is something you do not want to do in Brawl. The risk-reward scale in all three of these cases is tipped heavily in favor of risk. It's really best to just charge up the big one and find an occasion to stun them into it (with fair, for instance) or get them with an out of shield sphere.

On another subject, another way to control a large amount of space is a very versatile maneuver I like to call poping... oh wait, I'm not a douche (couldn't resist). Basically, you short hop forward with fair, then nair, and retreat while fast falling (or fast fall first then nair). It makes a wall of hitboxes that is versatile because you can move it slowly forward or backwards, and modify it easily for different scenarios. You'll occasionally want to replace nair with dair, especially when the opponents thinks they've figured out the pattern and want to try some funny business. You can use this to apply pressure, especially people close the the ledge of the level or backed into walls, since it's quite easy to see what they'll try to do once you frustrate them. If you expect you'll be hitting a shield when you throw out the nair, try to do it at the last possible moment, so the shieldhitstun buys you the time you need to jab, utilt or grab before you're grabbed yourself. Upon landing, ftilt, dtilt, utilt, f-smash, full charge AS, and jabs are the best options, of course it depends on the situation. Developing this maneuver is very important to Lucario players, at least in my view, since it is a very safe maneuver that allows you to control many of the smaller levels, and not many characters have safe counters for it. Wolf, for instance, can use the invincibility frames on his shine to break your pattern, and he can shoot you out of it, the latter occurring only if you give them the space to do so.

There are a lot of things left to discuss when it comes to zoning. Lucario's mobility and quick attacks are so good at allowing him to keep out some sort of hitbox most of the time that we'll be talking about them for a long while.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I rarely ever charge an Aura sphere all the way unless I'm edgeguarding with it. For me, it' s something I have on screen at all times, unless the opponent is someone with a reflector or Mr. Game and Watch, in which case I try not to use it at all except out of a shield.

The good thing about baby Aura spheres is how slowly they move. Lucario can move again before they disappear, making them really great for helping him approach. You can also really annoy some recovering characters with them, such as ROB or Dedede.

Oh, and I use that "Popping" thing quite commonly. There's a more defensive variant of it which is basically just a short hop and air dodge as soon as Lucario leaves the ground, followed by a Nair. If you did it right, Lucario should Nair only just as he reaches the ground, which is perfect for pseudo-combos. You get a good safe apporoach too.

 

[Greenpoe]

I love the Aura Sphere. It's a huge staple in combos and KO's. Anything to a hopped AS can put the advantage in your hand, since if they airdodge it, you can try and capitalize on the post-airdodge-lag.

Camping: At a reasonable distance, just start charging the AS and don't stop. Sounds obvious, but works against some people. They'll usually full hop and approach with an aerial. (But if they use projectiles, just roll past them and attack as usual.)
You can then:
-Shield, and grab or counterattack.
-Roll and AS or F-smash.
It does not work against Fox, Falco, Wolf, perhaps some others.

Death from above: Short or full hop and simply drop on top of them and start charging an AS so they fall right in it. Works sometimes against some people. You can then roll and try and AS them.

Short hopped AS (while they're in the air): Works well a lot of the time.

AS edgegaurd: If they're flying around off the edge, toss some AS's their way and screw up their recovery process.

AS at close range: Works great for punishing mistakes. Since Lucario's F-smash is a bit slow, a full charged close-range AS can work better.

AS while they're on the ledge: If the Aura Sphere is large enough, it will hit them while they're hanging on the ledge (given that their invincibility frames are done).

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Although zoning is not NEARLY as prominent with Lucario as it is with characters, such as Snake, it is equally important. I rarely find myself actually aiming an aura sphere at an opponent. Most of the time, I start a match out by short hopping a BAS, which obviously limits their approach options and gives you a distinct advantage.

Aura spheres are one of the easiest projectiles to power sheild. When my opponent and I are both on the ground, I throw aura spheres knowing that they will either jump over it, power sheild, or roll. Again, this puts you in an advantage. You are forcing them to do what you want them to. The only time I ever really try to hit with an AS is when they are off the ledge.

Also, BASing while you are recovering is great, especially on stages like Yoshi's Island. Yes, it stops your momentum, but it's great for interrupting edge-guarding. If you are conscious of your recovery, you can easily make it back safely.

 

[Milln]

Inner Fire 4. Aura Sphere for blocking off sections of the stage. Charge up one to almost full and short hop it above your opponent's head, then head towards them for ground mindgames since your opponent's brain will not let them jump into a giant energy ball.

 

[Silvran]

Even though I'm not a tournament player, I feel that I zone well against people at my level. As far as aura spheres go, I use them to mess with my opponent's head- spam for a bit, hold one for a bit, use them in somewhat odd situations, etc. I find that a fully charged point blank aura sphere often catches them off guard, especially if you've been either spamming or playing mostly melee. I admit, I could use some help with the spamming part- I tend to miss most of them and usually throw one too many... on the other hand, it makes those times when I do it right even more effective, though it'd have been better to not have taken the hit. One zoning trick I tend to use is the running force palm- some people will try to stop you with an attack, and will take the hit from the blast. Another one I've found useful is using a crawling dtilt to bait an opponent into charging- it'll often get them in the air. Not sure if these are helpful (or intelligent), but I hope that they're at least interesting. Any tips would be appreciated, and thank you in advance

 

[Da N]

I use baby aura spheres to weaken my opponent at low percenteges then when theyre at about 100% i charge up it all the way and then use it as the kill move when theyre at about 150%