Anthonio WIlliams
Smash Cadet
Zelda's a monster now.
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No, sometimes it just doesn't combo (& it's due to how high the last hitbox you get with Nair is or something). The elevator itself should be the stock regardless if the first hit was DI'd or not.It's not entirely unreliable. I think he might be referring to the fact that the elevator can be DI'd so it's not a guaranteed kill. Also, if you hit with the very last hitbox of nair, you'll send the opponent away instead of down into the elevator startup so knowing the timing for it is crucial but it's definitely reliable especially if you know how to time your nair to always drag the opponent down and can react to the opponent's DI which is incredibly difficult but possible.
Also, I don't recall being able to do it before the patch. If we could than very few people were talking about it. Furthermore, the patch has made it exactly 3 frames and 1% KBG easier thereby making it guaranteed if you do it like you ought to.
But, in response to the OP, we Zelda mains have known this since the patch came out. We've got a very dedicated lab team here so we got on that ASAP. It's good that other people are figuring this out. It means people won't necessarily see Zelda as a read-only killer anymore and she may garner more respect out of this.
I literally went on to FG the day after posting that and found out how unreliable it can be. I had character being popped up too high for the followup and some characters being popped away. Granted, it requires good timing and I think my timing was off (FG does that). Basically, if you input the nair as you start falling from the apex of your jump and don't FF, you'll get it every time on a standing opponent of Mario height. I had shorter characters just never get hit as I fell though. I saw the sparkles just dance around the character as they stood there taking no damage. Also, Yaaay is right in that it's definitely not safe to approach with nair as 18 frames of landing lag is still bad. That said, I usually use it as a punish just like everything else. If I'm in the air, I'll try and condition the opponent to shield by landing with nair just outside of grab range which is possible. Then, under the same circumstances, I'll double jump instead of land with a nair and see if they try for the shield grab anyway in which case I can FF nair to a guaranteed elevator. I have found it increasingly difficult to do this against smart opponents. It's more helpful when the opponent is in the air so we can drag them down with FF nair into the elevator. Just be careful as our air game is beaten out by most other characters' air games.No, sometimes it just doesn't combo (& it's due to how high the last hitbox you get with Nair is or something). The elevator itself should be the stock regardless if the first hit was DI'd or not.
Myself or someone will need to check out which characters Nair combos are reliable on; I know ZSS gets hit hard by near enough everything from it, but on Bowser, not even Dtilt or Dsmash is a guaranteed combo (it's just p reliable at best).
Also, @ M Meru. congrats on becoming aRed TyrantModerator! =3
See, this is what I was saying when we were in the wisdom's weapons thread. Ways to cope with our weaknesses. Using SH FF Nair strings I've carried DK and Link off stage in 5-6 strings. SH Nair is incredibly strong, but also probably some of the hardest timings to get down without being too slow on the follow ups. I still get punished when I nair into a shield, though that's likely just me needing to practice nair spacing. SH is definitely the tech direction we need to start looking in, ESPECIALLY in aggressive matchups.The second thing I've been experimenting with is SH rising nair, oftentimes from an empty hop or just plain running up to the opponent as if I were about to dash attack. The standard followup from an empty hop is to grab and a smart opponent will realize this and either spotdodge or roll to get away before the grab comes out. Using a SH nair as a mixup to grabs after empty hops is a safe option when whiffing a grab means a punish. Furthermore, we can do a simple SH nair from empty hop if we suspect the opponent will spotdodge so we can FF with it to punish the spotdodge or hit them with Nayru's Love, dtilt, or grab when we've autocancelled the nair and their spotdodge invincibility has ended. SH nair is one of those weird ways of approaching an opponent while also not approaching them at the same time. Typically, Zelda has two options when she runs up to a grounded opponent and both are very unsafe which is why her approach game is nonexistent: Dash attack and grab. Both can actually be spotdodged and swiftly punished which I find a lot of opponents do when I want to create a, supposedly, 50/50 situation between grab or dash attack. Instead, they spotdodge and my 50/50 situation just turns into pain. By throwing in a SH nair, we are completely safe whether they spotdodge, block, or do nothing. With a SH, we are also free to move to either side of the opponent (retreat or flank). This is especially useful when the opponent is obsessed with shield grabbing our dash attacks. Instead of using the dash attack, we rise with a nair which can catch tall opponents and can FF with it if they still go for the shield grab so we can punish the whiff.
It has Transcendent Priority? I never knew that. I learned something new today. I guess that is why I never lost an air battle with Zelda with her Neutral Air before then/.Nair beats anything if you space it right because it has transcendent priority; it can't clash. It's very good, though just a bit more disjoint would be nice if it's going to remain our only aerial we can actually throw out.
Actually it's the sour spot in LKs that clanks. Not the sweet-spot.I believe all of Zelda's attacks are disjointed and transcendent, except for Dtilt, Dsmash, Din's, Phantom, and Farore's Disappear. Farore's and Phantom are still disjointed, however.
I'm not sure about Ftilt and Kicks though. They probably are though.
EDIT: So apparently the sweetspots on her aerials can clank, but the sour spots can't. That's weird. The last hit of Usmash can also clank, but the move won't stop. Ftilt is disjointed and transcendent.
Wait a minute...am I misunderstanding this then?Actually it's the sour spot in LKs that clanks. Not the sweet-spot.
If the sweet-spot clanked it could technically cancel out a Samus charge shot due to damage ratio if placed perfectly LOL.
oop that's definitely an error in the thread. My b I'll go fix it.Wait a minute...am I misunderstanding this then?
I think I'm going crazy
what's that app?oop that's definitely an error in the thread. My b I'll go fix it.
Edit : Altered now. Sweet-spots were supposed to say NO and Sour-spots YES.
App? Rickster's image is just a phone (I think phone.) taken image from the Great Fairy Fountain thread here. I-if that's what you were asking about.what's that app?
Nair doesn't beat out a lot of characters that we face often and I find it trading more often with really popular aerials. Examples of this include Sheik's fair, Captain Falcon's nair/uair, Fox's fair, Rosie's fair, Pika's fair, etc. I like nair but find that it's really difficult to space it effectively against characters that have truly strong air games. I've strung nairs together on people from one end of FG omega stages to the opposite blast zone but it's possible to get out of Zelda's nair strings which is why we call them strings and not combos. All it takes is some DI'ing away from one nair to get out of the other. Some characters are more vulnerable to this than others but a lot of characters can easily DI away and cover themselves with quick aerial to make us back off.See, this is what I was saying when we were in the wisdom's weapons thread. Ways to cope with our weaknesses. Using SH FF Nair strings I've carried DK and Link off stage in 5-6 strings. SH Nair is incredibly strong, but also probably some of the hardest timings to get down without being too slow on the follow ups. I still get punished when I nair into a shield, though that's likely just me needing to practice nair spacing. SH is definitely the tech direction we need to start looking in, ESPECIALLY in aggressive matchups.
As well I always see you talking about our weak air game; while approaching wide spacing characters like Diddy/ZSS that dominate the air is suicide (unless we pull out the big Mind Game Guns with a mix up by engaging) I find nair beats almost anyone when spaced nicely, and with the pseudo vacuum it's seemed to pick up it makes it even scarier. I never really minded engaging mid air with most characters with obvious exceptions. And Love Jumps can be used in place of Nair. People almost never see mid air NL coming. And the glide has saved me from many a perilous Falcon Smash.
That's actually my video that I uploaded the moment I did it. I got ridiculously excited because I thought it was a true combo. You're right, the dtilt to nair is not guaranteed. Basically, it's a reliable followup if the opponent chooses to:Has anyone been able to pull off this D-Tilt setup into fast falling Nair -> FW?
This video is titled true combo but I don't think the D-Tilt to Nair is.
https://youtu.be/yI6W7MkqjV8
I could see this being useful if you condition your opponent to air dodge after mid-high percent D-Tilts (or maybe even Down Throw) and then catching the air dodge with the fast falling Nair.
oh ok lolApp? Rickster's image is just a phone (I think phone.) taken image from the Great Fairy Fountain thread here. I-if that's what you were asking about.