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ZELDA HOO HA COMBO

Valamway

Smash Apprentice
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I just get annoyed when people spread misinformation.

Dthrow to uair kills are real, according to Meru whom I trust tested pretty fully.
Dthrow to bair is also real, at certain percents and with specific DI.

But because they can never kill from a dthrow at the same percent as each other, dthrow does not set up a 50/50 kill scenario.
 

Macchiato

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I just get annoyed when people spread misinformation.

Dthrow to uair kills are real, according to Meru whom I trust tested pretty fully.
Dthrow to bair is also real, at certain percents and with specific DI.

But because they can never kill from a dthrow at the same percent as each other, dthrow does not set up a 50/50 kill scenario.
Actually it CAN. I never said all the time. On Fox I've killed him with Uair at 60%, but I've also killed him at that percent with Bair. On specific characters, it does become a 50/50 but not many. You should still keep that in account
 

Valamway

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Actually it CAN. I never said all the time. On Fox I've killed him with Uair at 60%, but I've also killed him at that percent with Bair. On specific characters, it does become a 50/50 but not many. You should still keep that in account
So you're claiming it's a 50/50, on lightweight high-gravity fastfallers (of which Fox is the only notable candidate), at a range of percent that's probably less than 55% to 65%, and only on high platforms that are close to a side blastzone, if you're facing away from the near side and you get the grab with zero Rage...
Sounds more like 1 in a million than 50/50.

Admittedly, even with how specific that is, it's probably worth knowing.
It works at a rather large range of percents on the Duck Hunt tree.
You still have to guess right though.

I would also like Meru to verify, but according to him a Fox at 60% should not be able to escape a uair.
Meaning that it would be more of a 100/50, and you should always go for uair.
 
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Meru.

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60% percent might still be early, not sure though. Either Nair or Uair should be guaranteed anyway.

Also, Zelda's dthrow to uair is not actually a Hoo-Hah, despite the title of this thread.
Neither is Diddy's current uthrow to uair, or Bowser's (though it almost used to be).
The thing that was so significant about the original hoo-hah is that it worked from 0% to kill%, no matter the Rage, staleness, DI, or any other factor.
Also this is very true. If anything you could better call it a Beep Bop or whatever stupid name they gave ROB's Dthrow Uair because they share a lot of similaries, both positive and negatives ones:

Guaranteed frame-wise
Kill early
DI mix-up (you have to react to their DI)
Rage makes it hard
Airdodge baits and punishes are important (in case you misread their DI/you have too much rage/their percent is too high)

It's much harder than Robin's or Bowser's throw combo and likely you will not always get the Uair follow up despite it being guaranteed. That said the better you become at following (be it by prediction or on reaction) their DI and punishing airdodges or second jumps, the more often you will succeed. It's definitely a very powerful tool.
 

ZombieBran

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I feel like a fraud because I rely much on Checkmate with Robin
I then proceed to use the "Ha! Checkmate!" victory screen, without fail.
 
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Rickster

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So I found a pretty good way of knowing if you're being too slow on the Finger Bang.

If you hear Zelda make her jumping sound clip (don't get this mixed up with the Uair grunt), you're being too slow. Keep in mind though that the jump grunt only plays when you full hop and not short hop.
 

Big Brother

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Apr 8, 2016
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It's guaranteed guys. DIing behind away in whatever direction (including holding up + behind, up + down) can be followed. It cannot be airdodged or jumped out of, it's 100 guaranteed. DI can be reacted to, but it's harder than other throw Uair combos. I tested it on Mario but I have tried it in matches against Roy, Peach, Mewtwo, Robin, Kirby, Bowser and Bayonetta. It worked flawlessly on every character but Bayonetta. Vs Bayonetta execution is much tighter. I did get it sometimes, but at times she was able to Bat Within which is on frame 1. I'm quite sure it's guaranteed on her too though, but just a bit harder (also note she has the laggiest airdodge in the game so if you bait it you can kick her or whatever). Then again the characters I tested the Dthrow Uair on all had frame 3 airdodges instead of frame 2 airdodges except for Mewtwo, and I'm quite sure it doesn't make that much of a difference.

One important thing to note is that Dthrow has a base knockback value of 80 whereas Uair only has 30. As we all know, moves with higher base knockback have a bigger rage effect so this means that rage affects Dthrow more than it does Uair. As a consequence, at kill percent with rage Dthrow will pop them up too high for Uair at connect (and when Dthrow Uair does connect atbrage percent, it will likely not kill because Uairs rage effect is not big enough). In order for Uair to connect at rage percent, it seems you will have to double jump. It will catch every optiom except for airdodge. This means that with rage Dthrow becomes a 50/50. I have tested very little with rage however since I didn't have enough time so this requires much more testing.

In summary:
Dthrow Uair is guaranteed, regardless of what character.
The window is tight.
DI can be reacted to.
With rage it likely becomes a 50/50 but this needs more testing.
Damn thanks a'lot for this information. My partner really needs this.
 

KlicKlac

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Damn thanks a'lot for this information. My partner really needs this.
Just a reminder, you still need to react properly. Basically, you can land a followup if you read the DI fast enough (but honestly, many opponents don't DI properly, which makes landing followups waaaay easier) And remember that there is still a percentage window you have to be in for the combo to be guaranteed.
 

Big Brother

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sically, you can land a followup if you read the DI fast enough (but honestly, many opponents don't DI properly, which makes landing followups waaaay easier) And remember that there is still a percentage window you have to
Haha "goes on for glory sees a lucas spamming back air and down air and never DI's" < pretty much every match. Yeah the percentage window is a bit hard but still, the combo is worth it for sure!
 

Lord Renning

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Feb 4, 2016
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457
Just a reminder, you still need to react properly. Basically, you can land a followup if you read the DI fast enough (but honestly, many opponents don't DI properly, which makes landing followups waaaay easier) And remember that there is still a percentage window you have to be in for the combo to be guaranteed.
This. This screws me up. I usually expect the opponents do use the "proper" response, and use good DI. Then someone doesn't DI and I end up where they're supposed to be.
 
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